Well... the country wasn't built by the poor, the Lazy and the welfare recipients... they think they are OWED something...

Few of them are interested in EARNING it. They think it should be handed to them on a silver platter. At least today that's true... it did't used to be... it stopped when everything started going to hell.

As I recall the country was build by people fleeing oppression. Fact is they took what they wanted but also benefited from the kindness of the locals. I wonder what the native americans thought of these people who needed a hand out and how different would the outcome have been if they hadn't received it.

A little later they exploited labour bought in chains and sold in markets and many of those welfare recipients are descendants of those slaves whose labour provided wealth

A nation that forgets it roots is a poor nation indeed.

As I recall the country was build by people fleeing oppression. Fact is they took what they wanted but also benefited from the kindness of the locals. I wonder what the native americans thought of these people who needed a hand out and how different would the outcome have been if they hadn't received it.

A little later they exploited labour bought in chains and sold in markets and many of those welfare recipients are decendents of those slaves whose labour provided wealth

A nation that forgets it roots is a poor nation indeed.
Yeah.. right... the poor are exploited... what a crock... if they ain't happy... why don't they start their own businesses instead of working for someone else and whining about it?

The poor USED to work hard to get ahead.. the poor didn't used to want much less expect handouts. All they wanted was a chance... which they still have and always have had..

A poor guy getting financing for a business? Not at Walmart wages. But you already know that.

Nice Squeal though.

Yeah..right...the poor are exploited....what a crock....if they ain't happy...why don't they start their own businesses instead of working for someone else and whining about it?

The poor USED to work hard to get ahead..the poor didn't used to want much less expect handouts. All they wanted was a chance...which they still have and always have had..

Smoothy you know the let them eat cake approach got Marie Antonette the axe and that is what you just said start a business, with what? Thin air or the hot air you are talking.

Those chances you speak of are thin on the ground

The idea that if the Lord didn't want them to be shorn he wouldn't have made them sheep which is at the root of the capitalist model is a wrong idea. I know socialism has to be tempered also but a sharing society can prosper, the society in which I live has demonstrated the model.



Luke 10:7... Jesus delivered an entire parable praising the profitable, investment strategy of some workers while condemning the single man who didn't make a profit as “wicked and lazy.”
Jesus didn't see the government as the answer . In fact, he fought against his own disciples who were imagining a revolution that would end in Jesus being set up as an earthly king. Finally Jesus encouraged his followers to exclusively practice voluntary, personal charity. The apostles condemned people who expected to eat without working, and proclaiming that Christians should give willingly, not out of coercion.
Jesus did say that government had an important limited role .(render unto Caesar);but as previously stated ,his was a doctrine of personal salvation ;not societal . There is where Christianity differs from utopian models. Christians who think we are commanded to make government 'God on Earth' are misguided.

A poor guy getting financing for a business?? Not at Walmart wages. But you already know that.

Nice Squeal though.

Right... EVERY business that's ever been started by a poor person wasn't financed by a bank or some rich guy... if you think they were you are really out of touch...

Every hear of the concept... start small then grow?

Luke 10:7Cherry picking verses you like while discarding the ones you don't like.

OK then show me the verses where Jesus tells us the government should take on the responsibilities you suggest it should.

ok then show me the verses where Jesus tells us the government should take on the responsibilities you suggest it should.

The government only had responsibility to Roman citizens. Only at a later times did was it forced to consider the extent of Roman provincial law. It was largely a peasant society. No capitalists to speak of.

Smoothy you know the let em eat cake approach got Marie Antonette the axe and that is what you just said start a business, with what? thin air or the hot air you are talking.

Those chances you speak of are thin on the ground

THey are not slim... most small businesses don't rely of massive loans to get going... and in fact having to pay back large sums of money will doom many businesses...

And expecting much less being able to borrow money to start a business is a fairly recent thing... yet there were huge ammounts of small businesses around before then.

Pray tell us how small business get started and where a poor guy gets start up capital?

Look I see the strawberry sellers and the sweets peddlars all the time but few of them will rise, you have to have some capital to start a business even if it is only to get some premises and do some signage. Many small businesses fail. I see the testament of that in the empty malls. You want a Mcdonalds franchise? Do you have a million dollars?

Pray tell us how small business get started and where a poor guy gets start up capital?

Ask any of the millions that did it before the government decided to get involved in recent decades,.

In fact I know a number of business owners that never got a government loan to do it... and they weren't born into wealthy families... they earned it the old fashioned way... they worked for it.

Its amazing how the lefties are absolutely dependent on the government for everything... its amazing how the human race has lasted this long.

Save the squealing rants and elaborate on the facts you claim to have first hand.

I've used this example before.. . before government got involved ;a poor person could buy a used auto and put a taxi sign on it.. Bam ! He was in business. He drove people and maybe saved and purchased more cars and eventually had a fleet with hired drivers.
Today that same poor person has to save up or get investors to finance a $million dollar or more medallion for the right to set up a taxi business. So now if he's lucky ,he's an employee of a crony of the mayor... or even worse ;he's squeezed out of the job by some illegal immigrant that you guys favor .

That's a nice overview of how you see NY. But here is what I find about NY medallions.

Why taxi medallions cost $1 million | Felix Salmon (http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/21/why-taxi-medallions-cost-1-million/)


But I do worry that the way fares are set, too much money ends up going to medallion owners. If fares were brought down, the amount that medallion owners could charge drivers would also come down, and medallion prices would — finally — start to fall. Why does NYC ever raise taxi fares, when the income from those fares ends up going overwhelmingly to a handful of millionaire medallion owners? These medallions, right now, are licenses to print money. That's why they're getting extremely expensive. But it doesn't need to be that way.

How Much Does it Cost to Become a Cab Driver in New York? | eHow (http://www.ehow.com/info_8620636_much-cab-driver-new-york.html)


Most taxi drivers do not have the cash to purchase a medallion taxi cab outright. With exorbitant lease fees forcing drivers to work endless shifts just to turn a profit, many drivers have turned to banks in hopes of landing a taxi cab purchase loan. Although an expensive commitment, taxi drivers who own medallions turn much higher profits than those who must pay lessors. Taxi loans pose little risk for banks, who can simply repossess unpaid vehicles and medallions and quickly unload them in the hot taxi market of New York City.

Read more: How Much Does it Cost to Become a Cab Driver in New York? | eHow (http://www.ehow.com/info_8620636_much-cab-driver-new-york.html#ixzz2bDxWIOCl)

I thought you liked rich guys who make money hand over fist off those drivers who need money, and isn't NY the supply side capital of the world?

Interesting how you omitted the paragraphs before that...


Prior to employment as a taxi driver in New York City, a driver must obtain a taxi license. The fees for "Yellow" taxicabs are the same as those for "For-Hire" vehicles, but only yellow taxis are eligible for medallions. A time of publication, applications require a $75 fingerprinting fee, a $60 license fee and a $26 drug testing fee. Applicants that are rejected or have incomplete applications after four months of initiation, will not receive refunds.

Mandatory Training

As part of the taxi license process, the New York City TLC requires applicants to complete six hours of an approved defensive driving course, as well as completion of a "Yellow" Taxicab School course. There is no set fee for defensive driving courses, as individual instructors or business have the discretion to determine their own price.

However, Yellow Taxicab Schools offer both 24 and 80 hour courses for $175 and $325 respectively. Either course is acceptable, although the 80 hour course provides greater instruction on the required taxi exam, which costs an additional $25.

Medallion Leases

Due to high demand, the idea of purchasing a taxi medallion is unrealistic for many New York City cab drivers. In fact, the sale price for taxi medallions has eclipsed $750,000 in recent years, and continues to move toward $1 million as of 2011. As such, taxi drivers often lease their medallion vehicles from fleets of taxi companies. Leases vary, but an average weekly lease rate may creep close to $1,000. Drivers who lease medallion taxis are not permitted to sublet their vehicles as per TLC regulations.

I figured you could read the whole thing for yourself, but that's my point in supplying the link to show how it takes more than slapping a sign on a car and calling yourself a taxi. Things have changed since the good old days.

A poor guy has to have money to get a job, or even vote for that matter. Its not me saying illegals are taking all the jobs, Tom did. Oh I hate corporations, and so do conservatives, so that makes me one of you guys so show the proper respect conservatives are entitled too!!

I figured you could read the whole thing for yourself, but that's my point in supplying the link to show how it takes more than slapping a sign on a car and calling yourself a taxi. Things have changed since the good old days.

I believe that was tom's point, "before government got involved" the poor guy could start a taxi service with minimal investment. After the government got involved that minimal investment is a million bucks. Government ruins everything.

Well what New York mayor screwed that up, I want to know so we can kick his a$$.

Taxicabs of New York City - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicabs_of_New_York_City#1930s_.E2.80.93_Medallio n_system_introduced)


In 1937 Mayor Fiorello H. La Guardia signed the Haas Act, which introduced official taxi licenses and the medallion system that remains in place today

I am new at this conservative stuff, so how do we spin this to blame Obama and Bloomberg? OOH OOH I got it, They lied on their birth certificates!! Don't let the young looks fool you! AND La Guardia was a RINO!!

I'm catching on quick huh guys? :D

Why would you want to catch up

I figured you could read the whole thing for yourself, but that's my point in supplying the link to show how it takes more than slapping a sign on a car and calling yourself a taxi. Things have changed since the good old days.

A poor guy has to have money to get a job, or even vote for that matter. Its not me saying illegals are taking all the jobs, Tom did. Oh I hate corporations, and so do conservatives, so that makes me one of you guys so show the proper respect conservatives are entitled too!!!!!!!!!!!

I stand by what I said . Before Dem pols set up the medallion system a poor person could easily set up a taxi business. I did not say it is a new thing .
But in DC that system is not in place yet and there are opportunities that NY poor do not have.

I got to admit, Weiner seems like a perfect fit for NY.


There's one sure way to lose the senior vote: insult old people.
(http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/weiner_hurls_grandpa_remark_during_ykXKq6vgYTPw6mP 0lDHHpN)
At an AARP-Univision mayoral forum this morning, mayoral contender Anthony Weiner pulled out the age card to taunt his most vocal challengers, 69-year-old Doe Fund founder George McDonald. Weiner is 48.

Before the debate, Weiner put a hand on McDonald's back and said hello, prompting McDonald to reply: "I would appreciate if you would never touch me again."

Weiner retorted: "What are you going to do about it, grandpa?" according to two sources.

The feud between the two has been simmering since last week.

At a debate in Laurelton, Queens on Thursday, McDonald called Weiner a "self-pleasuring freak." He said he was embarrassed to tell his 10-year-old granddaughter why Weiner was famous. Weiner replied then by calling McDonald a candidate “chirping at the fringes,” which only fanned the flame of the GOP candidate's temper.

But Weiner’s remarks today are sure to hurt him with older voters – votes he has been courting by campaigning at numerous senior centers.

I just have to wonder if Weiner does much hand shaking, I'd have to wonder where that hand has been, too.

Unfortunately ,if he is the winner of the Dem primary ,he'll be mayor .Not that Christine Quinn is any better .

The emperor of our 57 states is still not too sure about geography...



If we don't deepen our ports all along the Gulf — places like Charleston, South Carolina, or Savannah, Georgia, or Jacksonville, Florida — if we don't do that, those ships are going to go someplace else.  And we’ll lose jobs.  Businesses won’t locate here.

Read more: Jay Leno's interview with President Obama (transcript, video) - Politico Staff - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/jay-leno-obama-interview-transcript-video-95279_Page2.html#ixzz2bNOvYPP6)

I could be wrong but I believe those are all on the Atlantic east coast.

The emperor of our 57 states is still not too sure about geography...




I could be wrong but I believe those are all on the Atlantic east coast.

They are but the lefties will rewrite Geography books and maps so they comply with the Messiahs world view.

Or just rewrite it to fix his mistake like the AP did.


"If we don't deepen our ports all along the Gulf — (and in) places like Charleston, S.C., or Savannah, Ga., or Jacksonville, Fla. — if we don't do that, these ships are going to go someplace else and we'll lose jobs," Obama said.

Read more here: Obama plugs deeper Ga., SC, Fla. harbors on Leno | CharlotteObserver.com (http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/08/07/4219778/obama-plugs-deeper-ga-sc-fla-harbors.html#storylink=cpy)

I guess they got over the administration spying on them and are back to totin' his water.

Amazing ! He screwed up a pre-screened question.

Part of the problem is a spending cap of $459 million Congress placed on the project in 1999. The Senate voted to raise the limit in May, but the House still needs to approve it. Gov. Nathan Deal and Georgia officials are hoping the Savannah harbor will fare better getting federal funds next year.

Your guys spin is amazing and doesn't even resemble the FACT you provide.

Why do we need to raise funding limit ? Because you guys constantly turn infrastructure projects into boondoggles . Why does the nation need to improve Savannah's harbor? If Georgia wants to increase the harbor's capacity they can do it themselves .At least in Jacksonville there is a naval base .Savannah hosts an Army air field but no naval base of any kind.

Update to some long running nonsense last mentioned here, Slate has decided it will no longer refer to the Washington Redskins by their name (http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2013/08/washington_redskins_nickname_why_slate_will_stop_r eferring_to_the_nfl_team.html).

If I were Snyder I think I'd try to make an ad buy and see if they'd let me plaster the logo all over the site, but I digress. My suggested name for the team? The Washington Football Team Formerly Known As The Redskins.

Maybe they can be renamed the 'Washington Politically Correct" .

I also like naming them after a former mayor, the Washington Crackheads.

And on a brighter note, more shiny stuff.

Meet the Town That's Being Swallowed by a Sinkhole | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/08/bayou-corne-sinkhole-disaster-louisiana-texas-brine)

And on a brighter note, more shiny stuff.

Meet the Town That's Being Swallowed by a Sinkhole | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2013/08/bayou-corne-sinkhole-disaster-louisiana-texas-brine)

I thought you meant the one in Kansas, which is a sinkhole. :)

I guess MSNBC learned geography (https://twitter.com/intelligencer/status/367668404120866817/photo/1) from the man they're covering.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRo4dy9CUAAXrHE.jpg:large

They were only off a little (https://twitter.com/DanAmira/status/367670061709815808/photo/1)...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRo5-R8CcAA5b5l.jpg:large

As they've followed the emperor across the 57 states I'm sure they pick up some geography on the way.

SMH...


Obama Rodeo Clown Loses His Job and America Loses Its Sense of Humor (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2013/08/13/obama-rodeo-clown-loses-his-job-and-america-loses-its-sense-of-humor)

It’s All Fun and Games Until Obama’s Feelings Get Hurt

Officials at the Missouri State Fair have banned for life a rodeo clown who entertained spectators during a bull riding contest while wearing a Barack Obama mask. "The rodeo clown won't be allowed to participate or perform at the fair again," the Associated Press reported Monday. "Fair officials say they're also reviewing whether to take any action against the Missouri Rodeo Cowboy Association, the contractor responsible for Saturday's event."

It's an extreme response but not a surprising one. For those who came in late the unwritten rules are simple: It's okay to wear a Nixon, Reagan or George W. Bush mask. A Barack Obama mask? No so much.

Making fun of the President of the United States is what we do in America. It's a subtle reminder that we are a nation of laws, not of men, and that we threw off the monarchy more than 225 years ago and have not looked back since. We poke fun at our elected leaders to keep them from getting too big for their britches, to remind them – and ourselves – that we are all just citizens, some having been chosen by the rest of us to carry a greater share of the responsibility for the conduct of civic affairs.

From Mark Twain to Will Rodgers, from Fred Allen to Mort Sahl, Johnny Carson and Jay Leno, humorists, clowns and comedians have made taking shots at politicians their bread and butter. Until Barack Obama that is.

http://www.usnews.com/pubdbimages/image/53732/WideModern_obamamask_130813620x413.jpg

I have to say the late night comedians have taken plenty of shots at Obama lately so I applaud them for that. But banning a rodeo clown for being a clown? Really? And that's not even the most RIDICULOUS part..

NAACP calls on Justice Dept., Secret Service to investigate rodeo clown flap (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/14/naacp-calls-doj-secret-service-investigate-rodeo-c/)

Brings back memories of all the love (http://twitchy.com/2013/08/06/die-btch-george-w-bushs-heart-surgery-brings-out-death-wishes-nastygrams/) expressed for Bush...

Hello again, Steve:

There's comedy, and then there's racism. Right wingers simply cannot tell the difference... Or they can and they're LYING about it. That's what I think it is. In fact, EVERY time I've called out a racist, he accused me of not having a sense of humor.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

There's comedy, and then there's racism. Right wingers simply cannot tell the difference... Or they can and they're LYING about it. That's what I think it is. In fact, EVERY time I've called out a racist, he accused me of not having a sense of humor.

excon

Dude, it isn't us that can't tell the difference... we aren't the ones that believe "golf" is a dog whistle.

So it was OK for all those GW Bush masks and movies about assassinating him... all those “F**k Bush” bumper stickers . Criticism,ridicule ,and mockery of the President has always been in bounds... until the emperor's reign .

Racist comment deleted!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello again, tom:

See?? That's EXACTLY what I mean?? You think criticizing our black president BECAUSE he's BLACK, is the same as criticizing Bush for his policy...

I don't know HOW you miss that, but you surly do..

excon

We criticize Obama because he's an idiot that is screwing everything he touches up... the fact he's black is purely coincidentlal.

Even making that claim is further proof of the left playing the race card...

He's held to the same standards a white guy would be... or a green one or a purple one.

But then the left are the champions of setting a lower standard for minorities... because they believe they need a lower standard... that they can't compete on a level playing field.

"Above all else, the Devil cannot stand to be mocked." -C.S. Lewis

Hello again, tom:

See???? That's EXACTLY what I mean??? You think criticizing our black president BECAUSE he's BLACK, is the same as criticizing Bush for his policy...

I dunno HOW you miss that, but you surly do..

excon

Um, and claiming we criticize Obama because he's black instead of because of his policies is exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't know HOW you miss that.

Besides he's not really black, he's a "white black."

Um, and claiming we criticize Obama because he's black instead of because of his policies is exactly what I'm talking about. Hello again, Racists:

I didn't see the clown holding up pages of Obamacare.. I saw a BLACK face with BIG lips.

I KNOW you miss these things. I still don't know how.

Excon

Hello again, tom:

See???? That's EXACTLY what I mean??? You think criticizing our black president BECAUSE he's BLACK, is the same as criticizing Bush for his policy...

I dunno HOW you miss that, but you surly do..

excon

Show me where a rodeo clown in an Obama mask is criticizing him because he's black. You can't make that case unless you are doing that dog whistle thingy

Hello again, Racists:

I didn't see the clown holding up pages of Obamacare.. I saw a BLACK face with BIG lips.

I KNOW you miss these things. I still don't know how.

excon

Amazon sells (http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aobama%20halloween%20mask) all manner of Obama Halloween masks, you better get crackin' on setting that right. Maybe the Secret Service can help you out. I especially like the Barackula (http://www.amazon.com/Barackula-Obama-Vampire-Adult-Accessory/dp/B003VCUBYY/ref=sr_1_40?ie=UTF8&qid=1376588243&sr=8-40&keywords=obama+halloween+mask).

Um, and claiming we criticize Obama because he's black instead of because of his policies is exactly what I'm talking about. In the post just above this one that you made you called Obama the Devil (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/its-come-rev-2-a-741180-105.html#post3529956). So you aren't always arguing policies it seems.

Hello again,

Try as I might, I cannot teach you how to distinguish humor, legitimate political comment, and Halloween masks, from racism..

I don't know why.

excon

In the post just above this one that you made you called Obama the Devil (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/its-come-rev-2-a-741180-105.html#post3529956). So you aren't always arguing policies it seems.

Dude, did some doctor remove your sense of humor, too?

Hello again,

Try as I might, I cannot teach you how to distinguish humor, legitimate political comment, and Halloween masks, from racism..

I dunno why.

excon

That one is easy, it's because you lefties have two different sets of rules. One that allows you to get away with anything and one extremely arbitrary set to vilify us with.

Now, about those Halloween masks (Dude, did some doctor remove your sense of humor, too? Now, about those Obama Halloween masks at Amazon)...

Funny how it's always "humour" or a "figure of speech"; I guess that allows you to get away with anything.

Funny how it's always "humour" or a "figure of speech"; I guess that allows you to get away with anything.

Dude, you just proved the point we've been trying to make.

I was just joking!

It was a "valid" reason under Bush Jr. and Sr. and Regan... not to mention Ford and Nixon.and one thing is abundently certain, Obama is NOT a better man than any of them.

I think it depends on what side of the spectrum you are coming from. As an example... it was NOT considered racist when Pat Oliphant drew a caricature of Condi Rice as a parrot with big lips .
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.politicsdaily.com/media/2009/02/racists3.jpg

Tom,
There are definitely examples from both sides, don't you think?

Here is how they do it at a Philly rodeo (circa 1994)

The big white gate flew open. The bull came out bucking. The rider flopped

From side to side and the bullfighters held back, letting the bull make his moves until the rider dropped off. Licciardello crouched in a heavily padded barrel, a human target should the bull decide to charge. Hawkins waited near the barrel, holding his big inner tube. A dummy with a George Bush mask stood beside the clown, propped up by a broomstick.
Cowboys in their hats and long-sleeved shirts lined the arena's fences, some sitting on the top rails, some standing right on the sand.

This bull bucked well, needing no prompting from the bullfighters. And when the bull had lost his rider, he made moves toward the fences, sending cowboys scrambling up the fence rails, away from the bull's horns. Each of the first four bulls did about the same, bucking well but choosing not to charge their fallen riders, demanding few of the bullfighters' talents.

The fifth bull was behind the gate ready to go. His rider, O.J. Jones, pumped with adrenalin and, like the other riders, shaking in anticipation, was settling onto the back of Number 117 when, up in the announcer's booth, Dusty Cleveland enunciated the name that demanded respect.

"JA-LA-PE-NO!"

The big white bull with black spots and the foot-long horns came slamming out, looking big as a pickup truck, and Skimmer Walker, his feet spread, his hands out to the side, crouched to make a move.

Jalapeño dispatched his rider before the mandatory eight seconds. Now he stood tall, his head up, looking for something to charge.

T.J. Hawkins rolled out the big inner tube, and the bull lowered his head, shot forward and launched into the tube, sending it bounding down the center of the arena. The crowd cheered. Then the bull saw the George Bush dummy.

He tore into it, sending the rubber mask flying halfway across the sand as he turned toward the fence, sending cowboys scrambling up the fence rails, hooking one with his horn and tossing him off the fence.

Walker waited.

But it had been a hot day, and bulls, like men, have moods. Jalapeño, Grant Harris' "excited rascal," called it a night, found the exit gate and, like a locomotive floating on cotton balls, galloped silently over the soft sand and disappeared into the night.

Unchallenged, the brave Jimmy Lee Walker eased through the rest of another rodeo, fit to fight bulls one more night in a career that may never end.

A Rodeo Veteran Takes Bull By The Horns Jimmy Lee Walker Makes His Comeback In A Young Man's Game. - Philly.com (http://articles.philly.com/1994-08-19/news/25842089_1_bullfighting-clowns-rodeo-arena-clown-smile)

Seems like wearing masks of Presidents is standard operating procedures in the rodeo clown world . Until this week it was never an issue.

Tom,
There are definitely examples from both sides, don't you think?

It was never an issue until the emperor became the subject. Now just saying his full name is forbidden .

Which was never a problem since you never use his name anyhow.

Um... hes a mortal man... just another crook from Chicago... not an object of worship.

it was never an issue until the emperor became the subject. Now just saying his full name is forbidden .

Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

That's it! Was that so hard?

That's it! Was that so hard?

Not for me, I love free speech and hate the sensitivity police.

I used his full name once on these boards and was accused of calling him a Muslim.

I used his full name once on these boards and was accused of calling him a Muslim.

If you'd have just said, "Mmm, Mmm, Mmm" after that it would have been OK.

SMH...



http://www.usnews.com/pubdbimages/image/53732/WideModern_obamamask_130813620x413.jpg

I have to say the late night comedians have taken plenty of shots at Obama lately so I applaud them for that. But banning a rodeo clown for being a clown? Really? And that's not even the most RIDICULOUS part..

NAACP calls on Justice Dept., Secret Service to investigate rodeo clown flap (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/14/naacp-calls-doj-secret-service-investigate-rodeo-c/)

Brings back memories of all the love (http://twitchy.com/2013/08/06/die-btch-george-w-bushs-heart-surgery-brings-out-death-wishes-nastygrams/) expressed for Bush...


I draw your attention to the heading of the article:

It's all fun and Games Until Obama's Feelings Get Hurt

You would need to demonstrate two things in the article :

(a) Obama's feeling are actually hurt.

(b) Obama was actually involved in the decision because of his hurt feelings.

If you cannot, then the article is a beat up.

I cannot access the link, so I will be interested in any reference to direct involvement.

I draw your attention to the heading of the article:

It's all fun and Games Until Obama's Feelings Get Hurt

You would need to demonstrate two things in the article :

(a) Obama's feeling are actually hurt.

(b) Obama was actually involved in the decision because of his hurt feelings.

If you cannot, then the article is a beat up.

I cannot access the link, so I will be interested in any reference to direct involvement.

Tut, sometimes you just shouldn't take things so literally. Nevertheless the White House did comment, but you likely never hear POTUS publicly say 'it hurt my feelings.'


White House spokesman Josh Earnest says he had no reaction from Obama. But he says that personally, as a native of Missouri, "It was certainly not one of the finer moments in our state."

http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=politics&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57598571/obama-rodeo-clown-not-one-of-missouris-finer-moments-w.h-says/&catid=57598571

The point is the ridiculous sensitivity police that get outraged at the mere thought of looking fun at Obama. As has been shown there is a long tradition of skewering politicians - including the president - in this land of free speech and we aren't going to stop because it's Obama, whom his loyal following think is untouchable.

To paint this as a racist incident and call for a Secret Service investigation is pathetic. To the NAACP and others like them I say get over it. I saw no such outrage when Condoleezza Rice was clearly portrayed in racist, demeaning manners.

Tut, sometimes you just shouldn't take things so literally. Nevertheless the White House did comment, but you likely never hear POTUS publicly say 'it hurt my feelings.'



http://m.cbsnews.com/storysynopsis.rbml?pageType=politics&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57598571/obama-rodeo-clown-not-one-of-missouris-finer-moments-w.h-says/&catid=57598571

The point is the ridiculous sensitivity police that get outraged at the mere thought of looking fun at Obama. As has been shown there is a long tradition of skewering politicians - including the president - in this land of free speech and we aren't going to stop because it's Obama, whom his loyal following think is untouchable.

To paint this as a racist incident and call for a Secret Service investigation is pathetic. To the NAACP and others like them I say get over it. I saw no such outrage when Condoleezza Rice was clearly portrayed in racist, demeaning manners.


Yes, I am a literal person. Many people are.

I would go along with what you are saying, but doesn't your link say the Lt. Gov. of the state also denounced the performance. It also says he is a Republican.

Yes, I am a literal person. Many people are.

I would go along with what you are saying, but doesn't your link say the Lt. Gov. of the state also denounced the performance. It also says he is a Republican.

He's entitled to his opinion as well, although I wouldn't lump "disrespectful" in the same category as "racist" and calling for a DoJ and Secret Service investigation.

Disrespectful? Maybe, but entirely legal and protected speech by our constitution. There is no law against showing disrespect for Obama.

Just like abortion and voting but that doesn't stop the wingers who don't like it from throwing up obstacles to make it so hard to exercise those rights.

Just like abortion and voting but that doesn't stop the wingers who don't like it from throwing up obstacles to make it so hard to exercise those rights.

I refer you to this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3530639-post497.html).

Except abortion isn't an opinion... its a murder. You are Killing a human baby.

Its legal to have one in the first trimester. And your opinion is YOURS. And the only ones you can bully with your opinion are the females with no doctor, or insurance, and no money.

The rest exercise their legal rights, and make their own informed choice. That makes you a bully. Forcing your ideas on someone because you can.

Its legal to have one in the first trimester. And your opinion is YOURS. And the only ones you can't bully with your opinion are the females with no doctor, or insurance, and no money.

The rest exercise their legal rights, and make their own informed choice. That makes you a bully. Forcing your ideas on someone because you can.

Dude, drop the holier than thou bully bullsh*t.Your Alinskyite tactics aren't pretty.

Its legal to have one in the first trimester. And your opinion is YOURS. And the only ones you can bully with your opinion are the females with no doctor, or insurance, and no money.

The rest exercise their legal rights, and make their own informed choice. That makes you a bully. Forcing your ideas on someone because you can.

Look at a sonogram sometime...

Its not an opinion... also if someone assualts a pregnant woman... even during the first trimester... and she dies... they get charged with a double murder.

I feel as strong in my beliefs as you do in yours.


*And the only ones you can't bully with your opinion are the females with no doctor, or insurance, and no money. edited to
And the only ones you can bully with your opinion are the females with no doctor, or insurance, and no money.

Look at a sonogram sometime.....

its not an opinion....also if someone assualts a pregnant woman...even during the first trimester...and she dies....they get charged with a double murder.

Sadly there are females who beat their own belly's to self abort, or take a bunch of pills hoping for a miscarriage. And I know you are on many other forums where you see the actions and behavior of dumb youngsters who have no clue but decide to take matters into their own hands.

Funny how I agree with you on some of those issues and cannot here.

My point there being how is it not murder if one person does it... but is if another person does it... at the same point of development.

Since self defense does no play into this at all.

I don't have an answer honestly, but I know it gets rather messy and confusing when too many people step in with differing opinions and points of views. Then there is the actual law and how choices fall within it's boundaries. Emotion run high on many issues, and that's another problem.

You know a well as I do that half the people out there, mostly young, but older ones as well cannot even grasp what sex is, let alone the responsibility. They are more focused on getting it than the consequences of having it unsafely, or impulsively.

I feel as strong in my beliefs as you do in yours.

Edited to


And the only ones you can bully with your opinion are the females with no doctor, or insurance, and no money.

You keep using that word...

G2y8Sx4B2Sk

That one is easy, it's because you lefties have two different sets of rules. One that allows you to get away with anything and one extremely arbitrary set to vilify us with.

Now, about those Halloween masks (Dude, did some doctor remove your sense of humor, too? Now, about those Obama Halloween masks at Amazon)...

Look at this racist wearing an Obama mask
Look who who's wearing an Obama mask now! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16eE0bK2CR0)

look at this racist wearing an Obama mask
Look who who's wearing an Obama mask now! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16eE0bK2CR0)

Well it's different if HE does it.

By the way, did you know there was a clown code of ethics? Other than you don't come to a kids party drunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_aPAggQz_A) I did not know that.

A real clown wouldn't mock Obama (http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/15/opinion/quest-rodeo-clown/index.html?hpt=op_t1)

This is what I posted in response...


I didn't know there was a clown code of ethics. Here's a hint, "Dear Heart", a rodeo "clown" is a bullfighter, he's there for the protection of the cowboy more than the entertainment aspect and I'd say anyone willing to dress up and take on a raging bull with nothing but a barrel can dress as he pleases in my opinion.

Granted, not every rodeo clown is a bullfighter these days but they are part of the safety aspect along with providing comic relief.

As if watermelon Oreos weren't bad enough...

Pepsi-Flavored Cheetos Exist, Prepare For The Apocalypse | Foodbeast (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/foodbeast/pepsi-flavored-cheetos-ex_b_3756996.html?utm_hp_ref=weird-news&ir=Weird%20News)

Religious freedom or discrimination?

US: Bakery investigated over gay wedding cake refusal | News | The Christian Institute (http://www.christian.org.uk/news/us-bakery-investigated-over-gay-wedding-cake-refusal/)

Or should this be under the right wing goes further right? Hard to say. Yes we saw this in this country before when blacks weren't allowed at a lunch counter.

Religious freedom or discrimination?

US: Bakery investigated over gay wedding cake refusal | News | The Christian Institute (http://www.christian.org.uk/news/us-bakery-investigated-over-gay-wedding-cake-refusal/)

Or should this be under the right wing goes further right? Hard to say. Yes we saw this in this country before when blacks weren't allowed at a lunch counter.

Religious freedom. Its sad to say how many of us already had seen this coming. Hope your happy with it.

Using religion as a reason to discriminate against other humans is an old story we have not moved beyond and no one should be happy about it still existing. But despite the laws and rhetoric, sadly some knew it was still there below the surface of civility.

Using religion as a reason to discriminate against other humans is an old story we have not moved beyond and no one should be happy about it still existing. But despite the laws and rhetoric, sadly some knew it was still there below the surface of civility.

When you want things both ways and sideways. What did you think would happen? The government shouldn't force people to participate in anothers religion.

Using religion as a reason to discriminate against other humans is an old story we have not moved beyond and no one should be happy about it still existing. But despite the laws and rhetoric, sadly some knew it was still there below the surface of civility.

From your article:


Mr and Mrs Klein have received death threats, hate mail and have lost half of their customers since the incident in January.

I'm sure because the left is so tolerant of other people's beliefs.

.

a) how do you know their customers are from "the left" exclusively?
b) it's the free market at work

a) how do you know their customers are from "the left" exclusively?

Well now, I'm sure lots of right-wingers are going to issue death threats and hate mail because someone refused to make a cake for a gay wedding.


b) it's the free market at work

Since when are death threats part of the free market?

All you have is assumptions and sarcasm, no facts.

I was referring to the loss if business in the second point.

All you have is assumptions and sarcasm, no facts.

It was Tal's article so it's his facts.


I was referring to the loss if business in the second point.

And ignoring the first points - from Tal's source article - which was what my response was about.


Mr and Mrs Klein have received death threats, hate mail

Over a cake? Really? Lefties like Tal love to post about the 'discrimination' and 'intolerance' of righties while ignoring, as you did, the hatred and intolerance on the left. I believe it's a safe assumption this hatred is coming from the left with Oregon being one of the most liberal states in the nation (fact) and that conservatives don't threaten to kill people for refusing to cower to the PC crowd and compromise their beliefs (fact).

You mean those haters and death threaters don't have a right to express their disgust but the baker can discriminate on the basis of being gay? Planned Parenthood protesters weren't lefties for sure and lefties didn't murder doctors.

Seems to me this was about people reacting to discrimination of gay people to buy a cake.

Expressing disgust is fine, issuing death threats is not, no more so than murder regardless of who the killer or victim might be. I don't tolerate that on any side, yet you shrug it off as "about people reacting to discrimination of gay people to buy a cake" as if they were just saying, "that's not nice" as opposed to "I'm going to kill you, you Christian bigots."

Even you can see the difference.

Even you can see the difference.We were hoping that you could see the point that's it's not a left/right thing - there are fanatical weirdos on both sides. Don't you agree?

We were hoping that you could see the point that's it's not a left/right thing - there are fanatical weirdos on both sides. Don't you agree?

a) I believe I'm the only one that said I don't tolerate it on any side

b) I didn't know you spoke for Tal.

Sigh...

You did read that discrimination is against the law in the state in which the bakery resides didn't you?

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction/ Newton. Bet you didn't know it applies to human interaction did you? We call it push back to what pisses us off. When you make some one mad through your actions or behavior, you should expect conflict, and bad behavior. One feeds the other.

Break the law though, deal with justice through the courts, so there are no examples of good behavior in this case by either side. What disturbed me more than anything was the public support of that discrimination, and bad behavior.

Tal, for crying out loud DEATH THREATS are not "equal and opposite reactions" to saying "sorry, I can't make your cake." Geez.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=517586571662384&set=a.157796790974699.40772.157750900979288&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

Tal, for crying out loud DEATH THREATS are not "equal and opposite reactions" to saying "sorry, I can't make your cake." Geez.

Some BELIEVE it is.

Some BELIEVE it is.

Those people should be under the care of a mental health care professional.

And should the bakery be held accountable for refusing to sell a cake? It IS against the law.

Some BELIEVE it is.

Are you one of them?

Nope... most establisments have the right to refuse service to anyone... and personally if someone went into a place serving food... making a scene DEMANDING they be served... how many ingredients do you suppose find their way into someone's underwear before they make it to the pot? Or how many buggers find their way in?

You can't FORCE a bakery to make a 9/11 cake celibrating the terrorits... for some Muslim Mosque throwing a party...

Here's the telling part (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2393764/Christian-bakery-Sweet-Cakes-Melissa-investigation-refusing-sell-cake-lesbian-couple.html?printingPage=true) of Oregon's attitude about this:

'The goal is never to shut down a business. The goal is to rehabilitate,' Avakian told The Oregonian."

Those darn Christians, don't they know gay rights trump their first amendment rights?

Granted, if it were me I'd sell them the cake as long as they didn't expect me to decorate it in some perverted way or something. But I can't rationalize death threats for refusing to make a wedding cake like some.

Christians *could* follow the bible's lead:

1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Christians *could* follow the bible's lead:

Atheists COULD show respect to Christians... and so could the Muslim Troglodytes...

Why don't they find a gay friendly bakery to bake their penis cake and add the creamy filling... certainly there are gay bakers out there that would like the business?

Heck I'd never want to eat something I had to force someone to make for me that didn't want to make it. I understand human nature. And I know smart people wouldn't be dumb enough to videotape what they did.

How about FORCING Muslim run restaurants to provide a range of Pork dishes as well...

[QUOTE]Christians *could* follow the bible's lead:
Quote:
1 John 4:20-21
If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

LOL, typical. So I take it death threats are cool as long as they are directed at Christians by people who aren't Christians? That's the hatred, not the refusal to sell a cake.

You really should understand what the bible means and what else it says before using it as a bludgeon against Christians.

"You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:5

So I take it death threats are cool as long as they are directed at Christians by people who aren't Christians?Well I was referring to the event that started the whole thing in the first place.

You are an example that reminds me of why I shun religion.

Atheists COULD show respect to ChristiansThey mostly do. Usually by ignoring them.

I don't rationalize death threats either, two wrongs don't make a right. But who says people who do make death threats are rational? I sure don't. Such people would use any excuse to justify bad behavior.

Seeking redress in court is a much more effective, rational, and civil way to handle it. Breaking the law has consequences. Or should have no matter who does it, or the reasons they do it.

They mostly do. Usually by ignoring them.

You just proved my claim yet again.

You just proved my claim yet again.Do I go to your house and try to convert you? Tell you you're going to hell if you don't?

Do I go to your house and try to convert you? tell you you're going to hell if you don't?

You proved my point because of the high and mighty attitude where you think you are better than everyone else. (News flash... you aren't)

And I highly doubt anyone has gone to your house to "Convert you" except some Jehova Witness...

Letting people do their own thing is a high and mighty attitude? Maybe in your world. I'm quite certain you don't understand atheism.

Letting people do their own thing is a high and mighty attitude? Maybe in your world. I'm quite certain you don't understand atheism.

Your words...


They mostly do. Usually by ignoring them.

In response to my comment...


Atheists COULD show respect to Christians....and so could the Muslim Troglodytes....




So you think you are somehow better than they are?. because that's a very dismissive and derogatory perspective to have towards others, meaning you think they are below you rather than equals... much less superiour... when taken literally... and you have said you are a very literal person.

Well I was referring to the event that started the whole thing in the first place.

You are an example that reminds me of why I shun religion.

Oh pooh, what an excuse. You seem to have that attitude that Christians should be doormats. Sorry, but we were not called to be doormats and I think it just irritates you when we stand up to your crap.

I don't rationalize death threats either, two wrongs don't make a right. But who says people who do make death threats are rational? I sure don't. Such people would use any excuse to justify bad behavior

Seeking redress in court is a much more effective, rational, and civil way to handle it. Breaking the law has consequences. Or should have no matter who does it, or the reasons they do it.

Why didn't you say that in the first place?

You seem to have that attitude that Christians should be doormats. Sorry, but we were not called to be doormats and I think it just irritates you when we stand up to your crap.Certainly not. But it's obvious many christians are very angry and bitter people towards their fellow man. Like you many are quite dismissive of the words of Jesus when it suits them.

Why didn't you say that in the first place?

I did here,

Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - It's come to this - Rev. 2 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3532610-post1102.html)

You just didn't grasp the depth and nuance of what I was saying because you were too busy dealing with the effects, and not the actual cause which triggered the subsequent actions.

What's lost on these highly publicized cases are the many more examples of good behavior which won't meet the standard of worthy news, that are both inspirational, and affirming of doing the right thing by your fellow human that by far overshadow the bad examples of behavior.

Maybe that's why my outrage falls short of your emotional expectation because I see where we get it right more than you see where we drop the ball. Jut an observation.

Certainly not. But it's obvious many christians are very angry and bitter people towards their fellow man.

True, many are. Do you blame them? People like you have them in their crosshairs all the time. The left bashes Christians for sport then like you throws a bible verse at them when they respond to your attacks. Like I said, we weren't called to be doormats.


Like you many are quite dismissive of the words of Jesus when it suits them.

Wrong, I am never dismissive of Jesus' words. I don't pull them out of context and use them to bludgeon others like you do.

I did here,

Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - It's come to this - Rev. 2 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3532610-post1102.html)

You just didn't grasp the depth and nuance of what I was saying because you were too busy dealing with the effects, and not the actual cause which triggered the subsequent actions.

You are correct, sorry about that.

Carry on.

P.S. You're welcome, I had my batters lay off all weekend so you could gain on me.

Hello again, Steve:


P.S. You're welcome, I had my batters lay off all weekend so you could gain on me.Yes, you did! Who's your Daddy??

Excon

Hello again, Steve:
Yes, you did! Who's your Daddy???

excon

You're welcome, too. I have now finally surrendered first place overall.

The left bashes Christians for sportI guess it's because they aren't doormats - to use your reasoning.

I guess it's because they aren't doormats - to use your reasoning.

So you do think we're supposed to be doormats. Well, I can't help it if you're ignorant.

I guess it's because they aren't doormats - to use your reasoning.

Everybody bashes Christians for sport Karma but you are lucky we are a forgiving people

everybody bashes Christians for sport Karma but you are lucky we are a forgiving people
But they need to sleep with one eye open... because we Christians shall wage our revenge when they least expect it.

True Christians aren't interested in revenge Smoothy but they may be interested in protecting themselves, besides we can be very subtle

everybody bashes Christians for sport KarmaWhat you call bashing is likely due to events in the past few decades that have led to deeper scrutiny of what goes on behind closed doors. Then you have people like smoothy who threaten physical violence.

True Christians aren't interested in revenge Smoothy but they may be interested in protecting themselves, besides we can be very subtle

True... the the line between protection and revenge can be a very blurry one. Particularly when you are being subtle.

What you call bashing is likely due to events in the past few decades that have led to deeper scrutiny of what goes on behind closed doors. Then you have people like smoothy who threaten physical violence.

Hardly, the war on Christianity has been going on for decades and it has nothing to do with any alleged scandal.

That's a bunch of hooey. If you run out of your house to your neighbor, and tell them they will go to hell for sinning, you get cussed out. If you live and let live, you don't get cussed out.

It's a real simple formula, stop sneerling your nose at the difference of others, and telling them they are wrong, and you don't get cussed out. Isn't that what the Arab Spring is about? Fundamentalist religious types trying to dictate what everybody does and believes, and hoarding the money, power, and influence, over the increasing pressure of keeping people poor and subjective.

.

Hardly, the war on Christianity has been going on for decades and it has nothing to do with any alleged scandal.

What is alleged about the scandal, do you think there weren't paedophile priests and clergy? Those people are not Christians but wolves masquarading as Christians. The world doesn't know anything but what the media tells them, when is the last time you saw a true Christian event reported? Where I come from if you were not a Christian you would not know christianity existed

Those people are not Christians but wolves masquarading as Christians.Ah yes, the No True Scotsman fallacy: No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman)


The world doesn't know anything but what the media tells themOther than the clergy who have admitted their crimes.

That's a bunch of hooey. If you run out of your house to your neighbor, and tell them they will go to hell for sinning, you get cussed out. If you live and let live, you don't get cussed out. .

I have never done that so there must be some other reason for all the sneering at Christians, the effort to ban God from the public square, rewriting history, trying to force the church and Christian businesses to violate their beliefs and a general hostility toward Christians so much so that entire organizations have cropped up over the last couple of decades specifically to defend churches and Christians from the onslaught of attacks. So don't give me that "bunch of hooey" crap.

I mean think about it Tal, you started this discussion because a business owner declined to make a cake for a gay wedding, who then received hate mail and DEATH THREATS. They did not sneer at the couple or tell them they were going to hell, they declined to be a part of something that violates their beliefs for which they are now being persecuted. What happened to live and let live? Were they the only cake makers in the area? Shouldn't they be allowed to refer them to someone willing? Is there no compromise except for the Christian being forced to compromise their values?

Bunch of hooey? Seriously?

Hello again, Steve:

the effort to ban God from the public square... Is there no compromise except for the Christian being forced to compromise their values? I'm all for having God in the public square. The question is, WHO'S God? If you want to open it up to ALL the Gods, then I'm cool with that. If you're OK with Muslim assembly's in Middle School, right along side your Christian ones, then I'm cool with that too.

Is THAT what you mean?

No, that ISN'T what you mean. You want YOUR religion in the public square and NO others... I thought you liked the Constitution.

excon

Hello again, Steve:
I'm all for having God in the public square. The question is, WHO'S God? If you wanna open it up to ALL the Gods, then I'm cool with that. If you're ok with Muslim assembly's in Middle School, right along side your Christian ones, then I'm cool with that too.

Is THAT what you mean??

No, that ISN'T what you mean. You want YOUR religion in the public square and NO others... I thought you liked the Constitution.

excon

You really should stop putting words in my mouth. The constitution uses the term 'religion', not 'Christianity.' We've had this discussion.

If your religious values allow for the treatment of your fellow human with anything but dignity and respect, then you are full of hooey, and you will probably get the same disrespect back.

If your religious values allow for the treatment of your fellow human with anything but dignity and self respect, then you are full of hooey, and you will probably get the same disrespect back.

A jerk is a jerk, but that's highly irrelevant to my point.

It is relevant to your point because we all are responsible for our choice of how we relate and balance our behavior with others no matter our religions.

Most would have just sold a cake and been done and moved on but insulting a customer whether intentional or not cannot be qualified by religious beliefs. The law says so very specifically.

It is relevant to your point because we all are responsible for our choice of how we relate and balance our behavior with others no matter our religions.

Most would have just sold a cake and been done and moved on but insulting a customer whether intentional or not cannot be qualified by religious beliefs. The law says so very specifically.

Where is this evidence they insulted anyone?

It's come to this... NY voters and the media are suffering from - "Weiner fatigue (http://www.buzzfeed.com/rubycramer/as-press-coverage-fades-anthony-weiner-tries-to-play-the-und)."

I have no other comment.

Where is this evidence they insulted anyone?

If you don't understand the insult of being refused service because of what you are, then you just don't get it. That means you condoned the RACISTS who refused service at the lunch counters too, doesn't it?

But of course if YOU got discriminated against for being CHRISTIAN, you would be insulted, and understand it.

Ya know sort of like being refused to be served bar-B-Que pork at your local kakob house... or the local Mosque refusing to put up a Christmas tree and celibrate the season with most of the rest of the country.

No its not. Who goes in a mosque looking for Christmas, or a kokab, looking for BBQ? An idiot that's who!! But looking for a cake in a BAKERY is reasonable isn't it?

No its not. Who goes in a mosque looking for Christmas, or a kokab, looking for BBQ? An idiot that's who!!!!!! But looking for a cake in a BAKERY is reasonable isn't it?

Same reason a gay couple would expect a non-gay marriage supporting Baker to bake them a wedding cake. THat baker is entitled to his religious beliefs... and that's no different than demanding a Muslim (or Jewish person for that matter) cook you up some roast hog. Just because they have a catering business?

Certainly there are lots of gay friendly if not actual gay bakers out there that would be more than happy to have that business?

Good luck with your excuses for disrespectful behavior which is against the law in the state of the bakery. Hope the judge listens because I won't.

Glad you think Christian religious belief puts them above the law.

Good luck with your excuses for disrespectful behavior which is against the law in the state of the bakery. Hope the judge listens because I won't.

Glad you think Christian religious belief puts them above the law.
I think the baker is entitled to respect towards them as well...

Yeah.. thje same reason a Priest can't be FORCED to marry them...

Any business owner has the right to refuse service to anyone.

Or is this really about them wanting to cause trouble... because there is usually mor ethan one place that makes baked goods in even very small towns.

Why can't... or more like why WON'T they find another baker?



That's the question that nobody has the balls to actually ask.

I personally wouldn't want to eat a bite of anything I had to force someone to make for me.

Trust me... I worked in a Restaurant in College...

Why can't... or more like why WON'T they find another baker? That's the question that nobody has the balls to actually ask.

Actually they did get another baker, and chose to exercise their right to file a complaint for discrimination, and seek redress in civil court.


I personally wouldn't want to eat a bite of anything I had to force someone to make for me.

Now we agree.


Trust me... I worked in a Restaurant in College...

You really didn't want to piss off the chef back in the day, or now.

If you don't understand the insult of being refused service because of what you are, then you just don't get it. That means you condoned the RACISTS who refused service at the lunch counters too, doesn't it?

But of course if YOU got discriminated against for being CHRISTIAN, you would be insulted, and understand it.

Dude, what is this knee-jerk need of yours to always throw out the race card?

Sorry but I have a hard time equating refusing to make a gay wedding cake, or sell the morning after pill for instance, with refusing to serve lunch. I can find no moral objection that would justify refusing to serve a hamburger to a hungry person.

See that's where we differ, I'm willing to accommodate and find a compromise on issues with legitimate, reasonable religious objections and you aren't. You insist that a Christian violate their conscience on such matters. Would you force a Muslim caterer to serve pork at a wedding? What if a Muslim florist rejected doing a wedding in a church?

It's not a big deal, Tal, someone else would be more than willing to do this then everyone can be happy. But you perpetually offended lefties think anyone that doesn't accommodate your particular grievance groups for any reason is an unreasonable bigot that must be rehabilitated. Like I said, I would have done it, but I also respect the Christian couple's right to not be a part of it.

I respect their position because they are responsible for the consequences of their actions not me, so it's up to the law now, and I respect that too.

My position is that religion is subjective to the practicing person but the law should apply to all. Like I said, if you cannot see the discrimination because of your religious views, that's a problem, but it's yours to solve. I have empathy and can appreciate the conflict between religious belief, and practice and the law.

Good Luck.

Actually they did get another baker, and chose to exercise their right to file a complaint for discrimination, and seek redress in civil court.



Now we agree.



You really didn't want to piss off the chef back in the day, or now.The Chef or anyone else like the Waitress or Waiters... even the busboy. Anyone that can come in contact with your food. And if they were smart... they would never overdo it and you'd never know what you ingested... ever. I honestly never felt the need to do it (only worked there a few months before I found something I liked better)... but I saw others that did.

Still sounds like someone with an agenda, looking to cause trouble... otherwise they would have far too many other things to worry about.

Still sounds like someone with an agenda, looking to cause trouble.....otherwise they would have far too many other things to worry about.

Of course they have an agenda. Everyone must conform to their views or they are affronted. We are being forced, coerced, into accepting that which we oppose even though we are the majority.The world is tough and some people don't like gays by reason of their life style, I don't use a gay barber for example

of course they have an agenda. everyone must conform to their views or they are affronted. We are being forced, coerced, into accepting that which we oppose even though we are the majority.The world is tough and some people don't like gays by reason of their life style, I don't use a gay barber for example

Be careful... they will sue you next.

Personally... I have nothing against gay people in general.. I do have a problem with the ones that make a point of ramming anything (figuratively) down our throats. Or forcing us to do things we don't want. (whom I believe is a tiny minority of them)

And its really not even just them... its the Illegal immigrant activists... the Pro-Heroin lobby, the Atheists that think they have a right to a freedom from religion... NAMBLA... the NAACP... KKK... or the ACLU.

These people have far too much time on their hands... they all need to get a real job and a real life. They would find life takes up all their time.

of course they have an agenda. everyone must conform to their views or they are affronted. We are being forced, coerced, into accepting that which we oppose even though we are the majority.The world is tough and some people don't like gays by reason of their life style, I don't use a gay barber for example

Wonder what you will do when you are no longer a majority?

Wonder what you will do when you are no longer a majority?

I could force my views on other people claiming discrimination

I respect their position because they are responsible for the consequences of their actions not me, so it's up to the law now, and I respect that too.

My position is that religion is subjective to the practicing person but the law should apply to all. Like I said, if you cannot see the discrimination because of your religious views, that's a problem, but it's yours to solve. I have empathy and can appreciate the conflict between religious belief, and practice and the law.

Good Luck.

This is the issue, same as with coercive union dues, No one should be forced to support something they don't endorse. Tolerance is a two way street.

With 360 million individual, debate and compromise has to be the order of things.

I could force my views on other people claiming discrimination

See if the judge agrees with you.

With 360 million individual, debate and compromise has to be the order of things.

I believe I said compromise. Where is the compromise in punishing someone for refusing to be coerced into violating their beliefs?

See if the judge agrees with you.

I expect there is plenty of precedent

I believe I said compromise. Where is the compromise in punishing someone for refusing to be coerced into violating their beliefs?

So its okay for Christian to break the law because of religious beliefs? Why can't Muslim practice Sharia law for the same reasons?

So its okay for Christian to break the law because of religious beliefs? Why can't Muslim practice Sharia law for the same reasons?

They already do. Mulims have been using sharia law here for awhile.

Have you never heard the law is an a$$. As far as I'm aware the state cannot govern the practice of religion which makes things very difficult where there is conflict

The state can govern discrimination. Don't like it, change the law.

They already do. Mulims have been using sharia law here for awhile.

Not when it conflicts with local, state, or federal laws. Got a link that says otherwise?

It's come to this... billioniare financier of crony socialism George Soros sold off his shares of US Airways last quarter .
George Soros (http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/george-soross-hedge-fund-bullish-on-j-c-penney-company-inc-jcp-herbalife-ltd-hlf-selling-airlines-222114/)

Last week the Holder Justice Dept sued to block a merger between US Airways and American Airways .

The hookup of American and US Airways had been viewed by many as a foregone conclusion and the culmination to a wave of major-carrier consolidation that has helped put major U.S. airlines on more sound financial footing.
Justice Department sues to block planned American-US Airways merger - Chicago Tribune (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-08-14/business/ct-biz-0814-airline-merger-20130814_1_american-us-airways-airline-merger-america-west)

U.S. Airways stock dropped more than 15% in value in the two days after the Justice Department action was announced.

HMMMMMMM... a timely sell off indeed . Was he tipped off ?

Oh you KNOW that was insider information... but he'll never be investigated by THIS administration for it.

Move along, nothing to see here.

Obama hosted the undefeated '72 Miami Dolphins team at the White House for some reason, and uttered the "painfully racist" name of their opponent.

Obama Uses the 'R-Word' | National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/356302/obama-uses-r-word-andrew-johnson)

Doesn't he know how insensitive that is?

I'm tired of the Fins . That team was NOT that good . OK their D was good ,but the offense was at best good enough when playing against teams with mostly losing records (their opponents record was a combined 70-122) . I'd take most of the Super Bowl winning teams in a one game playoff against them. Fine ,let them get their White House recognition and then go away... PLEASE !

Please, political correctness gone mad a whole language you can't use

Not when it conflicts with local, state, or federal laws. Got a link that says otherwise?

It has to conform. And lower courts are allowing the use of it in many civil cases.

It has to conform. And lower courts are allowing the use of it in many civil cases.

I keep waiting for the first case of some non-muslim beiong chared for Blasphemy or some other lunatic Sharia crap.

There should be NO Sharia allowed in the USA at all, period... let them have it in the Middle east... and move to the Middle east if they want to live under it...

This isn't the Middle east... and its not a Muslim nation.

Conform and assimilate to our ways or get their butts out of here.

I reject totally your demand to conform and be assimilated to your ideas of life, or leave. I ain't alone.

What are you going to do, throw me in jail for not going to your church? Deport me? You may have a lot of guns, but it won't be enough. You need a better rap brudder!!

I reject totally your demand to conform and be assimilated to your ideas of life, or leave. I ain't alone.

What are you gonna do, throw me in jail for not going to your church? Deport me? You may have a lot of guns, but it won't be enough. You need a better rap brudder!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well... deal with it.. because that's how its been... and that's how its going to be. Because no way in Hell are we going to be subjected to some towelhead legal code in the country we were born in that wasn't founded by pedophile worshipers.

Having a Mosque is bad enough... trying to ram their unconstitutional Islamic codes on us is another altogether.

Having a Mosque is bad enoughWhy?

My bad, when you said pedophiles I thought you were referring to the Catholic Church, not Islam. Just curious, what did you do with all those pedophiles?

Back to the subject, I hear you brudder, but that's because you talking loud, and saying nutin!!

My bad, when you said pedophiles I thought you were referring to the Catholic Church, not Islam. Just curious, what did you do with all those pedophiles?

Back to the subject, I hear ya brudder, but that's because you talking loud, and saying nutin!!!!!!

Mohammed was an avowed pedophile... and its documented in the Koran.

THeir entire religion revolves around it... how many people have died over their defending it... Don't know of any Christian that have been going around killing people in defense of it...

I'm the wrong person to be asking about the Catholic Priests... I'm a life long Protestant. Our preachers are usually married and most have kids.

Crusades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_crusades)

Um... that only happened as a result of the troglodyte hordes overrunning what was the Holy Roman Empire and killing everyone who did not convert to peodophile worship.

Apparently you don't bother reading anything that isn't WND.

I know three people that are among the editiors of Wikipedia...

I take most things there with a dose of salt.

When exactly was the last of the Crusades?

When exactly was the last of the Crusades?

Maybe in the 1990s when the Western world sent a coalition into Bosnia to defend Muslims from ethnic cleansing by Christians ?

When exactly was the last of the Crusades?When exactly did Mohammed hang out with the 12 year old?

Well we do know the Muslims have had a hard time growing past the 7th century mindset... some of them still think it is the 7th century. The world has moved on... but they haven't. Makes the Ludites seem like a progressive movement.

A few actually believe its still the Stone Age.

When exactly did Mohammed hang out with the 12 year old?

Why you asking me?

'cause it's the same answer to both our questions.

I didn't say anything about 12 year olds.

Making connections between ideas isn't your forté.

When exactly did Mohammed hang out with the 12 year old?

Aisha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aisha)

Ah, 2000 years ago. So it's no longer relevant I assume?

When exactly was the last of the Crusades?
Speech the crusades ended around the 12th century so the muslims had been busy for seven hundred years at that time

Ah, 2000 years ago. So it's no longer relevant I assume?
Karma by talking about 2000 years I expect you are eluding to Jesus who predated Mudhatmad by some 600 years. Jesus is relevant today, just as relevant as he was then all we have got from the followers of Mudhatmad is war and conflict and an ideology that is not relevant today

While you to righties revise ancient history, back to the present and more relevant issues.

Bob Filner Resignation Expected, Mayor Seen Leaving Office With Boxes: Reports (UPDATED) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/bob-filner-resignation_n_3795188.html)

Rick Perry Quietly Lobbies The White House For $100 Million In Obamacare Funding | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/21/2501321/rick-perry-obamacare-hypocrisy/)

Republicans' Own Investigation Into 'Dangerous' Abortion Clinics Discovers They're Already Very Safe | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/08/21/2502111/republicans-investigation-abortion-clinics/)


The results of that GOP-led inquiry? Abortion clinics are already very well-regulated, and the services they provide are extremely safe.

Hey... if the lefties are getting money for Obamacare... us righties are entitled to our share too. SO the numbers don't get skewed.


But everyone should get the same exemptions Owebama has granted the Unions and congressional staffs.

You already have the exemption. And glad to see you stand by your principles and take the money, and benefits others fight with you to get. Republican always take they money and benefits while the squeal how bad it is to the very end.

You already have the exemption. And glad to see you stand by your principles and take the money, and benefits others fight with you to get. Republican always take they money and benefits while the squeal how bad it is to the very end.

Bull... everything was better before Owebama got into office...

Nothing has gotten better... and our benefits have gotten progressively worse the entire 5 years... and they are about to get much worse...

But then the average lefty really can't stand to see anyone with something better than they have... unless its them that have it then they want to keep everyone else from getting it.

So with the Democrat party... its all about the race to the bottom. They want to drag everyone down to their level rather than encourage them to work to better themselves to everyone else's level like the Republicans want.

Lol so an abortion advocacy group analyzed the responses and concluded that clinics are safe . About Us | RH Reality Check (http://rhrealitycheck.org/about-us/)

lol so an abortion advocacy group analyzed the responses and concluded that clinics are safe . About Us | RH Reality Check (http://rhrealitycheck.org/about-us/)

I guess we have to wait for the official repub spin... I mean... findings of the data the states sent to them.

lol so an abortion advocacy group analyzed the responses and concluded that clinics are safe . About Us | RH Reality Check (http://rhrealitycheck.org/about-us/)

I'm sure they're as thorough, sincere and forthcoming as all those Obama admin investigations of itself.

I'm sure they're as thorough, sincere and forthcoming as all those Obama admin investigations of itself.

What's stopping you guys from releasing your own results of YOUR investigation? I mean it was YOUR idea.

What's stopping you guys from releasing your own results of YOUR investigation? I mean it was YOUR idea.

Uh, when they aren't claiming executive privilege the administration is otherwise obstructing the investigations.

Um, try to keep up, we are talking about the republicans investigation into the safety of abortion clinics state, by state. Or do you blame Obama for obstructing that too?

WingNut talking points ain't always the answer to every question... bummer I know.

Um, try to keep up, we are talking about the republicans investigation into the safety of abortion clinics state, by state. Or do you blame Obama for obstructing that too?

I raised the Obama issue to which you responded, try and keep up.


WingNut talking points ain't always the answer to every question... bummer I know.

You should know.

It's come to this, Law and Order SVU is combining all your favorite racist cases into one (except of course, the infant shot in its stroller, the Duncan OK shooting, etc.).

'Paula Deen SHOOTS Trayvon Martin' in new SVU that wraps both scandals into one controversial episode... (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2400288/Paula-Deen-SHOOTS-Trayvon-Martin-new-SVU-episode.html#ixzz2cpBEzOhx)

The episode also plans on dealing with New York's stop-and-frisk policy for your viewing pleasure.

Uh oh, Stride Rite is in the cross hairs for gender stereotyping.


Yet another brand has angered parents by marketing to girls and boys separately and using antiquated gender stereotypes to do so. This time, ads by shoe company Stride Rite suggest girls are princesses and boys are powerful. The ad featuring a young girl is pink, purple and sparkly while the boy ad sticks to conventional "masculine" colors.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1316039/thumbs/o-STRIDE-RITE-570.jpg?5

Margot Magowan, a mom of three girls, wrote a letter to Stride Rite explaining why she will no longer be shopping there and posted it on her site, Reel Girl. "What’s with your gender stereotyping? I don’t get it. Aren’t girls and boys feet pretty similar? Don’t all kids need shoes where they can be active? Please tell me why Stride Rite markets shoes to little kids as if girls and boys are completely different species," she began.

I saw Margot on the news and she swore not to shop at Stride Rite as long as they keep boys shoes on one side and girls shoes on the other.

a) What's wrong with boys and girls being different?

b) Don't you grievance mongers have anything better to do?

Uh oh, Stride Rite is in the cross hairs for gender stereotyping.



I saw Margot on the news and she swore not to shop at Stride Rite as long as they keep boys shoes on one side and girls shoes on the other.

a) What's wrong with boys and girls being different?

b) Don't you grievance mongers have anything better to do?

I guess unisex underwear will be their next agenda item to push for. Because heaven forbid women were lacey things and guys werar guy stuff.

Hello again,

Women's clothing CAN be sold without painting women's role in society as secondary to men. Using STRONG women would probably sell more shoes, anyway..

I'll betcha this add was thought up by an OLD white guy who watches Bill O'Reilly, and laments the "loss" of our culture...

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

And yet the first thing any good leftist editor does is take a decent looking feminist hero, get her out of her sneakers and put her in heels in Vogue (images.politico.com/global/2013/08/14/wendy_davis_vogue_328_eric_boman_vogue.jpg).

http://images.politico.com/global/2013/08/14/wendy_davis_vogue_328_eric_boman_vogue.jpg

That's absolutely sending the wrong message.

I chalk it up that excon is in the camp for unisex clothing for boys and girls.

I wonder what 'Chelsea' Manning thinks ?

Hello again,

Women's clothing CAN be sold without painting women's role in society as secondary to men. Using STRONG women would probably sell more shoes, anyway..

I'll betcha this add was thought up by an OLD white guy who watches Bill O'Reilly, and laments the "loss" of our culture...

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

Sorry, but I don't consider thinking of my girl as a princess means she's secondary to men. Equality does not mean sameness.

Hello again, Steve:
Equality does not mean sameness.Who said SAME?

It'd be fine with me if they depicted a STRONG girl, getting dirty, playing OUTDOORS with other sweating girls, and a boy playing with a doll.

I'll bet you wouldn't like that, would you?

Excon

The Queen of England was once a Princess... I wouldn't consider her a spineless wuss.

I guess we forget all the GI JOE dolls, and all the accessories that came with it.

Hello again, Steve:Who said SAME?

It'd be fine with me if they depicted a STRONG girl, getting dirty, playing OUTDOORS with other sweating girls, and a boy playing with a doll.

I'll bet you wouldn't like that, would you?

excon

I like strong, dirty women and I had a GI Joe.

GI Joe is not a doll. It's an 'Action Figure '.

Hello again, tom:

GI Joe is not a doll. It's an 'Action Figure '.Bwa, ha ha ha ha. Snicker... snicker... Bwa, ha.

Excon

GI Joe is not a doll. It's an 'Action Figure '.

Not according to my old man... he called them dolls and no son of his would play with dolls.

And we didn't.

Hello again, tom:
Bwa, ha ha ha ha. Snicker... snicker... Bwa, ha.

excon

Laugh if you like. It would never had sold as a doll and it is not marketted as one now for the same reason.

Hello again, tom:

I agree. They NEVER would have sold them if they called them dolls.. That's exactly WHY they changed the English language to reflect what THEY wanted it to reflect. But, they don't fool me and Smoothy. You?

excon

I see no difference between GI Joe and plastic toy soldiers except GI Joe costs more and has uniforms and gadgets that go with it... making it more expensive to drop rocks on the toy.

G I Joe did guy stuff and Ken tried on Barbies outfits..

Here's the thing. If this mom wants her girls to be Butchy, dirty, girls in boys clothes that's her choice - but don't spoil it for the millions of little girls who naturally like being thought of as a princess.

That's what annoys me more than the sheer stupidity of not treating boys like boys and girls like girls, all these miserable libs need to stop trying to spoil it for the rest of us.

And you could pose them like the girls could pose Barbie and Ken, you remember Ken don't you? Barbie's preppy bi... I mean boyfriend, that lived off Barbie's money and was eye candy when she got her "vette.

Here's the thing. If this mom wants her girls to be Butchy, dirty, girls in boys clothes that's her choice - but don't spoil it for the millions of little girls who naturally like being thought of as a princess.

That's what annoys me more than the sheer stupidity of not treating boys like boys and girls like girls, all these miserable libs need to stop trying to spoil it for the rest of us.

So us doing our thing stops you from doing your thing? How does butch mom spoiling what for you?

So us doing our thing stops you from doing your thing? How does butch mom spoiling what for you?

Libs can't tolerate to each his own, they have to try and force their values on the rest of us while playing the victim. Get over it lady, most of us like our boys to be boys and our girls to be girls and if she don't like it she can kiss my grits.

You didn't answer the question, how do libs STOP you from doing YOUR thing?

There's a photographer in N.M. that can answer that question.

You didn't answer the question, how do libs STOP you from doing YOUR thing?

Really, Tal, the answer was in there, trying to "force their values on the rest of us." We are doing our thing, she wants to end that.

You should be asking HER how Stride Rite stops her from doing her thing. We don't mind if she buys boy's shoes for her little girls, she shouldn't be offended that the rest of us want to treat our girls like girls and boys like boys.

there's a photographer in N.M. that can answer that question.

But it's OK if funeral homes refuse to bury a Boston bomber?

Libs can't tolerate to each his own, they have to try and force their values on the rest of us while playing the victim. Get over it lady, most of us like our boys to be boys and our girls to be girls and if she don't like it she can kiss my grits.

Seems she was expressing her personal displeasure and forcing nothing on you. Pisses you off, but forces nothing. She has as much right to beetch about what she doesn't like as you do don't you?

So what's she forcing down your throat, by expressing HER view?

Sounds to me like she's upset there isn't a Bull Dyke line of girls clothing.

If she was smart and believed in her opinion... she'd start her own line so other happy parents of tomboys would be able to buy butch stuff for their little girl to assure she never grows up to be a female role model.

If there really were enough people that thought like her... she'd make a lot of money... or lose a lot if there isn't.

Seems she was expressing her personal displeasure and forcing nothing on you. Pisses you off, but forces nothing. She has as much right to beetch about what she doesn't like as you do don't you?

So what's she forcing down your throat, by expressing HER view?

From the article, she is part of this stupid movement.


That's why groups like Pigtail Pals, PinkStinks and PrincessFreeZone are working to end gender stereotypes for good in order to just let kids be kids.

In the meantime, HuffPost blogger Carla Molina suggests 10 alternatives to calling girls princesses: A warrior, brave, strong, to name a few.

Sorry, but most of us don't want to erase the differences between boys and girls. No one made them the deciders and by doing this it is they who refuse to "just let kids be kids," along with all the wackos wanting to ram their "comprehensive sex ed" and other progressive propaganda down the throats of our children.

she is part of this stupid movement.
That would be the movement that wants kids to pee in the same pot in school

that would be the movement that wants kids to pee in the same pot in school

Probibly argued their precious little monster should use the faculties restroom because she's "MATURE" for her age.

that would be the movement that wants kids to pee in the same pot in school

Exactly.

The convicted soldier formerly known as Bradley Manning has explained the transformer announcement. Well who cares about that? More interesting to me is what his/her/it's attorney supposedly said...


Hormone therapy, which typically involves high doses of estrogen to promote breast development and other female characteristics, can help Manning, Coombs said.

“It’s just to be comfortable in her own skin,” Coombs said.

He described it as similar to ensuring someone with high blood pressure gets medication.

Read more: Bradley Manning explains gender change - Associated Press - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/bradley-chelsea-manning-gender-change-95928.html#ixzz2dC71oVAN)

Really? It's like that?

He's in jail, if he want a sex change let him use his butter knife.

He's in jail, if he want a sex change let him use his butter knife.

Ouch.

He's in jail, if he want a sex change let him use his butter knife.

He can get lots of practice if he wants to be a girl.

Maybe he will change his mind before he gets out.

Maybe he will change his mind next week... or maybe not. Doe he really need surgery to be someone's beetch?

Just hope he doesn't ask a question here about his partner doesn't want sex with him any more.