It is said that Osama Bin laden is dead, killed by a US bomb in the Pakistani capital
Osama Bin Laden dead: US has the body | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world/osama-bin-laden-dead-us-has-the-body/story-e6frfkyi-1226048335673)

Bo has since said it was a seal eem who but coincidence shot him in the head.

This news has the potential to widen the rift between the US and Pakistan on the scope of US operations in Pakistan but gives credence to the possibility that Pakistan not only knew where OBL was hiding but gave him sanctionary.

What will be the outcome? Will that threatened atomic detonation take place? And how interesting that the timing of the death may have coincided with the threat. Having cut off the head of the snake can the US expect al qaeda to diminish in influence or has the US given Islam a high profile martyr?"

Obama just announced that Bin Laden was killed in an operation in Pakistan and the body recovered.

It's about time!

Party at my house!

Yes Scott I commented on it earler. It will be interesting to hear the full facts of how it was accomplished but an excellent win

Just want to say I prefer to celebrate now, we don't know what tomorrow will bring. Actually I join with all those who have lost or who have been affected by the actions of this man in saying job well done and up yours Pakistan

The facts in the OP need correction . OBL was wacked in a fire-fight with Navy Seals .

He was living in luxury in a neighborhood next to a golf course and an arena ,close to an airport for a quick escape ,where elite government officials and former ISI retire .
The Paki's have much to answer for. This comes the same week it was revealed that Paki PM Yousuf Raza Gilani suggested to Karzai that he dump an alliance with the US ,and hitch his wagon on an alliance with the Chinese.

Osama bin Laden killed by U.S. forces; body buried at sea (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Osama+Laden+killed+forces+body+buried/4707364/story.html)

No body - how convenient.

Osama bin Laden killed by U.S. forces; body buried at sea (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Osama+Laden+killed+forces+body+buried/4707364/story.html)

Apparently they, um, buried him at sea. No body.

Respecting the Islamic tradition of a quick burial... and insuring no Bin Laden shrine is made of his burial site.

You're no different than Trump.

Yes Scott I commented on it earler. It will be interesting to hear the full facts of how it was accomplished but an excellent win

I did look for a previous thread before I posted. But I guess the title didn't suggest the subject enough. So I've merged the threads.

Frankly, I don't believe the Ottawa press report. It makes no sense. Lets not post a lot of speculation. Tomder, where did you get your information? One of the things I want to know is the conditions under which he was living.

As for celebration, I am ambivalent about that. I do not think the death of ANYONE is a cause for celebration. I think Bin Laden's death should be dealt with in a different manner not the wild celebrations and exultation I've been hearing about. But frankly, I'm not sure what that manner should be. Obviously I can understand the reasons and need of some people to celebrate in such a manner.

The question about what this means for al qaeda is key. But the US had no choice here. Alive, Bin Laden was a rallying point for extreme Islamic terrorists. Dead he is a martyr for extreme Islamic terrorists. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

respecting the Islamic tradition Happy to see the US respecting islamic tradition - Mission Accomplished!

Scott ;what part of my response do you dispute ?

What Tom no celebration. OBL got wacked, at least it was done by americans, poetic justice

I wonder how the Palestinians took it seeing the americans celebrating in the streets, now give us all something else to celebrate an end to hostilities

I'm united with ALL AMERICANS celebrating OBL's descent to Hades. Hope he enjoys his 72 skanks.


Coincidence... May 1 is also the same date Hitler's death was announced .

Scott Here is a link to the luxury compound he was living in .

Bin Laden was found at luxury Pakistan compound - OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/sns-rt-news-us-binladen-cotre7411nx-20110502,0,6498271.story)

The home is in Abbottabad, a town about 35 miles north of Islamabad, that is relatively affluent and home to many retired members of Pakistan's military.
It was a far cry from the popular notion of bin Laden hiding in some mountain cave on the rugged and inaccessible Afghan-Pakistan border -- an image often evoked by officials up to and including former President George W. Bush.

The building, about eight times the size of other nearby houses, sat on a large plot of land that was relatively secluded when it was built in 2005. When it was constructed, it was on the outskirts of Abbottabad's center, at the end of a dirt road, but some other homes have been built nearby in the six years since it went up, officials said.

WALLS TOPPED WITH BARBED WIRE

Intense security measures included 12- to 18-foot outer walls topped with barbed wire and internal walls that sectioned off different parts of the compound, officials said. Two security gates restricted access, and residents burned their trash, rather than leaving it for collection as did their neighbors, officials said.

Few windows of the three-story home faced the outside of the compound, and a terrace had a seven-foot (2.1 meter) privacy wall, officials said.

"It is also noteworthy that the property is valued at approximately $1 million but has no telephone or Internet service connected to it," an administration official said. "The brothers had no explainable source of wealth."

Glad they finally got him.

Surprised they didn't want to give him his constitutionally guaranteed right to a trial... like the GITMO people. I'm waiting for the ACLU to harp on it.

Personally I think killing him was the right thing to do.

I would have fed his body to hogs for initial processing... but dumping his corpse in the ocean to be reprocessed by sea organisms is perfectly satisfactory.

I'm waiting for the ACLU to harp on it.Don't think that's going to happen, the US respected islamic ritual.

Glad they finally got him.

Surprised they didn't want to give him his constitutionally guaranteed right to a trial....like the GITMO people. I'm waiting for the ACLU to harp on it.

Personally I think killing him was the right thing to do.

I would have fed his body to hogs for initial processing...but dumping his corpse in the ocean to be reprocessed by sea organisms is perfectly satisfactory.

They gave him the option to surrender.
Osama bin Laden Death Prompts Celebrations and Security Alerts - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/osama-bin-laden-death-prompts-celebrations-security-alerts/story?id=13507836)

I'm glad your "War on Terror" is over. Looking forward to seeing those draconian laws repeeled, especially not having the TSA people feel you up.

"For over two decades, bin Laden has been Al-Qaeda's leader and symbol, and has continued to plot attacks against our country and our friends and allies. The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat Al-Qaeda.

"Yet his death does not mark the end of our effort. There's no doubt that Al-Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us. We must - and we will - remain vigilant at home and abroad.

Osama bin Laden killed: Barack Obama's speech in full - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/8487354/Osama-bin-Laden-killed-Barack-Obamas-speech-in-full.html)

Oh well so much for that. His death really doesn't change much.

How about changing Canada's Draconian laws.

Oh well so much for that. His death really doesn't change much.

Yes it does. A mass murderer has been brought to justice.

How about changing Canada's Draconian laws.You can start your own thread if you wish. I have to go vote. :)

Scott Here is a link to the luxury compound he was living in .

Bin Laden was found at luxury Pakistan compound - OrlandoSentinel.com (http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/sns-rt-news-us-binladen-cotre7411nx-20110502,0,6498271.story)

That was it, thanks. I wasn't disputing anything, just asking for the source. I didn't mind him escaping capture so much if he was forced into a meager existence. I'll have to read up on that more.

As for killing vs capture. There was no way he would have been taken alive. He would have killed himself first.

The Pakis have much to answer for . He could not have lived this existence without the highest levels of the government knowing about it and assisting .

You can start your own thread if you wish. I have to go vote. :)Incidentally YOU made the comment about Draconian laws first...

Are they having a vote on what people thought about the dumb hats worn at the Royakl wedding in the Great white north?

Are they having a vote on what people thought about the dumb hats worn at the Royakl wedding in the Great white north?You think the wedding was in Canada? LOL!

You think the wedding was in Canada? LOL!

Never said that... But Canadians have much more fondness for the Monarchy than we Americans do... Here its more about the personality thing than any fondness for the Monarchy (which obviously is merely a figurehead position today.)



You should have heard my wife's comments about some of those hats...

Mine was simply... they wore that out in public?


But more on topic... I would have ordered OBL fed to hungry pigs. Like Mr Wu did to Al Swearengen's bodies that needed disposing of. Reference Deadwood the TV mini-series.

But that would piss off a lot of other Muslims.

You should have heard my wifes comments about some of those hats.....

Mine was simply...they wore that out in public?You can ridicule Curlyben for that if you wish, he's a brit.

You can ridicule Curlyben for that if you wish, he's a brit.

Yeah... I know... I might do that later... or create a thread if I can find the right picture.

Call it a Dumb Hats thread.

Aha... got it. :D The one Beatrice wore particularly. :eek:

It does not seem like the cave was very heavily guarded, all things considered. Furthermore, I noticed that the pictures do not really look like the interior of a cave at all. Strange.

I wonder why they had to kill him? Would it not have been more prudent to perhaps capture him and question him regarding 9/11 and other events he is responsible for? Or at least stick him in "the hole"? Oh wait, he was already in a cave so he's probably used to that environment already. Never mind.

Good thing we can confirm his identity by examining the bod... oops.

That's because it was a 3,000 square foot building in a compound 100 yards from a Military academy surrounded by 18 foot fence with razor wire on it.

NOT a cave.

Satire, my good friend.

Satire, my good friend.

Perhaps you meant to say... " MANCAVE" and OBL had the funds to make one hell of a mancave.


Think I heard that was a Million dollar house in a country where having two goats makes you rich.

Osama been hidings new nickname posthumously shall henceforth be Osama Been catching lead.

You can start your own thread if you wish. I have to go vote. :)

I did that already, nk. Should be interesting and I am looking forward to it.

Tick

It does not seem like the cave was very heavily guarded
There were very few people (mostly civilians, I've heard so far) inside the "cave." Osama was secure in knowing soldiers were headquartered several blocks away.

I wonder why they had to kill him? Would it not have been more prudent to perhaps capture him
He was told to surrender. In reply, he pulled a woman in front of him as a shield and fired at the soldiers. One, in turn, shot him in the head.

Good thing we can confirm his identity by examining the bod... oops.
That was done at great length and in great detail to confirm it was indeed Osama. He was buried at sea.

Osama was hiding behind women when they found him... at least one even got shot in the process.

Takes a real "Man" to hide behind a woman to save his skin. Osama was such a "Man".


In this part of the world you get your MAN CARD revoked for such a display of cowardice. Apparently what they call a "Man" in that part only has a requirement of possessing testicles. No mention to actual function or size.

It is my hope that the video of his final moments is released. I know there is one because there was a live feed that went to the White House.

OBL has been this last decade mostly a symbolic leader of Jihadistan . It would serve as wonderful pr to have this clown, who has called for a generation of Muslims to strap bombs on themselves and sacrifice their lives ,to be seen cowering in a room with a women acting as a human shield .

We should be glad the head has been cut off the snake but remember the snake doesn't die until sunset so I accept he has gone but his influence remains and the war on terror isn't over yet.

The terror state that is Pakistan will have to be dealt with before that happens. Let me say I'm quite concerned at the moment my youngest son is in Pakistan

Is it hidden bodies or faked moon flights, the US is once again being accused of lying to us. It took maybe twenty four hours for the conspiracy theorists to breakout and say we are being deceived. After ten years why would the US decide to lie to us?

I personally think the liars are the Islamic jihadists who have lied time and time again to their dupes

Quite honestly... I'm inclined to believe we got him. Even Obama is smart enough to know if it's a charade... Osama is going to release a video with a major newspaper front page in it as proof he was alive after the strike, and make a complete fool out of him. And I tend to believe little to nothing Obama says.

Well I have the same opinion of Osama, I do not believe what he has said and he has been proven wrong

Hi Wondergirl,

Thank you for breaking down my post with "factual" reporting conducted by Fox News.

As always, once the American media reports it, it becomes irrefutable fact:)

I hear Trump wants to see the long form death certificate.
The interesting paradox is that we have gone from a time before the net and cable where all information provided by the gate-keeper media was unquestionable... to a point now where no information is considered unimpeachable. It appears the more information is accessible ,the less it is considered reliable.

^Funny guy, right here.

I suppose you're right when you consider how much information was provided surrounding the event. There were certainly no questions asking about his living conditions, his "burial", etc. Nope, none of those. Must be the comprehensive overview provided to us by the U.S Gover... oh wait... Fox Sports.. oops.. News:)

The Media: They killed Osama!
You: Says who?
The Media: The American that killed him.
You: Awesome!

The President is going to release a photo of the very dead OBL before he began his time sleeping with the fish . No doubt there will be charges of photoshopping.

This will not end conspiracy theories. There is one going around the ummah now that Saddam Hussein was not hung.One of his body doubles was instead. He is poised to return as the leader of a Batthist revival to counterweigh the time when the
12th Madhi comes back from the well he fell in.

Such nonesense. The second someone questions the very inconsistent recounting of events the U.S (and many other world powers) provide, dating back to who knows when and certainly including the 9/11 story, hardliners liken it to fairy tales and bigfoot.

I'm not saying Osama isn't dead, I question the story surrounding it, I question much of what was told to the public on and after 9/11. Stands to reason that if I question the original event I'd question the aftermath spanning 10 years.

I suppose the alternative would be, well, you. The T.V told me so I therefore believe it.

I've never heard of this Saddam theory, although I have one you may have heard of or seen, caught on live T.V no less.

During the 9/11 attacks an american news reporter, live, reported that world trade center 7 (I think) had collapsed. Sure as fact, the building was visible in the background while she spoke! Only later did it collapse.

I don't point it out because I believe ALL the stories, in fact, I cannot purport to know what exactly happened that day or today. I point it out because the media is not to be blindly followed, especially when pride of country and emotion are involved. Seems like personal anger rather than objective interpretation, my good friends.

Hi Wondergirl,

Thank you for breaking down my post with "factual" reporting conducted by Fox News.
That information was from a government spokesman and has been confirmed by subsequent reports. I abhor Fox News.

As always, once the American media reports it, it becomes irrefutable fact:)
As I said, it was not from the media.

Such nonesense. The second someone questions the very inconsistent recounting of events the U.S (and many other world powers) provide, dating back to who knows when and certainly including the 9/11 story, hardliners liken it to fairy tales and bigfoot.

I'm not saying Osama isn't dead, I question the story surrounding it, I question much of what was told to the public on and after 9/11. Stands to reason that if I question the original event I'd question the aftermath spanning 10 years.

I suppose the alternative would be, well, you. The T.V told me so I therefore beleive it.

I've never heard of this Saddam theory, although I have one you may have heard of or seen, caught on live T.V no less.

During the 9/11 attacks an american news reporter, live, reported that world trade center 7 (i think) had collapsed. Sure as fact, the building was visible in the background while she spoke! Only later did it collapse.

I don't point it out b/c I beleive ALL the stories, in fact, I cannot purport to know what exactly happened that day or today. I point it out because the media is not to be blindly followed, especially when pride of country and emotion are involved. Seems like personal anger rather than objective interpretation, my good friends.

There is no doubt that media displays a bias at times. There is also no doubt that media sometimes works as instruments of the state .

But that doesn't excuse a flight to fantasy land .I've heard all the 'truther' theories going back to the JFK assassination ;Roswell and Area 51 , and even back to the Masons ,the Illuminati and beyond to those involving the Catholic Church and those by anti-Semites against the Jews .

It is convenient to think that the events of the world are manipulated behind the scenes by puppeteers . People hold onto them even when the counter evidence is presented . It makes for fine fiction .

That information was from a government spokesman and has been confirmed by subsequent reports. I abhor Fox News.

As I said, it was not from the media.

I certainly question anything that's on NPR, CNN or CBS... as their bias is extreme and obvious.

And I have my doubts about anything that's on ABC, or NBC.

MSNBC is a joke... Saturday Night live is more credible as a news source. But so few actually watch them its self explanitory.

Actually if its on the radio... on TV... or a newspaper, (particularly on the web). Its subject to bias. Some are so much it makes the National Enguirer look objective. And besides... didn't THEY break the news about Mr. Clean... "John Edwards" when everyone was saying they weren't serious?

I certainly question anything thats on NPR, CNN or CBS.......as their bias is extreme and obvious.

and I have my doubts about anything thats on ABC, or NBC.
When newscasters continually confuse "Obama" with "Osama," it does give one pause.

You can start your own thread if you wish. I have to go vote. :)

Canada's Conservatives score massive election win - Yahoo! News (http://ca.news.yahoo.com/conservatives-head-victory-canada-election-022335447.html)

GO HARPER!!

Cindy Sheehad obviously thinks it's a sham (http://www.facebook.com/cindyssoapbox/posts/128596820550958).

Cindy Sheehad obviously thinks it's a sham (http://www.facebook.com/cindyssoapbox/posts/128596820550958).

I think she's long overdue for her therapy sessions.

Cindy Sheehad obviously thinks it's a sham (http://www.facebook.com/cindyssoapbox/posts/128596820550958).
I think she should set up a campsight
Near the site the President vacations this summer. Note how her activities have been reduced to Facebook postings now that the left no longer underwrites her screeds .

One messiah to another, you're dead!

Again, I'm not purporting to know what happened on that day, nor am I a "conspiracy theorist" looking to rile anyone. However, it appears that no human shield was used as cover, Osama was not armed, and his own people did not casually give him up or point him out as first reported.

My entire point in this whole debate was to be wary of what is reported as it has much in common with past events reported which are designed to inflame, enrage and generally distort the real truth (I will say I'm shocked at how many people bought the first story without so much as a second thought about how broken and odd the story sounded)

Again, would it not have been more beneficial to everyone involved if he were captured alive? If he was not armed why shoot him? They say he 'resisted', how so? Perhaps a very strong NO! Accompanied by a very stern finger wave? Also note that apparently the human shield he did not use was actually ready to assault the Seals before they subdued her by shooting her in the... leg.

If he was captured alive the Liberals would be demanding he be released on bail pending the trial... the ACLU would be defending his right to kill Americans as a violation of his first amendment rights... and demand the American taxpayer foot the bill. Not to mention the cost of the trial.

They would also be whining he wasn't Mirandized.


After all... thats what they were doing with the terrorists detained in Gitmo.

If he was captured alive the Liberals would be demanding he be released on bail pending the trial.I'm pretty sure you don't know how the legal system works if you think this is possible.

I'm pretty sure you don't know how the legal system works if you think this is possible.

Maybe not in Canada... after all criminals have greater rights than the public has there.

THIS is the USA however.

And really... want something to put THAT into perspective?


How about the Detainees in GITMO. Lots of proof that's EXACTLY what they would do because that's EXACTLY what they have been doing.

Maybe not in Canada....after all criminals have greater rights than the public has there.Citation please?

Your gun laws...

Your privacy laws...

Your gun laws....

Your privacy laws....What? No citation that shows that our criminals have more rights than our citizens?
BTW we have WAY more privacy than you do, by a long shot. I have some inside knowledge as my sister goes through her citizenship application for the USA.

Again, I'm not purporting to know what happened on that day, nor am I a "conspiracy theorist" looking to rile anyone. However, it appears that no human shield was used as cover, Osama was not armed, and his own people did not casually give him up or point him out as first reported.

My entire point in this whole debate was to be wary of what is reported as it has much in common with past events reported which are designed to inflame, enrage and generally distort the real truth (I will say I'm shocked at how many people bought the first story without so much as a second thought about how broken and odd the story sounded)

Again, would it not have been more beneficial to everyone involved if he were captured alive? If he was not armed why shoot him? They say he 'resisted', how so? Perhaps a very strong NO! accompanied by a very stern finger wave? Also note that apparently the human shield he did not use was actually ready to assault the Seals before they subdued her by shooting her in the.................leg.

You can blame the President's policies about detention. The short answer is that he doesn't have any. He wants to shut down GITMO and can't... but you know he will not add to the population.

Therefore his strategery is simply "western justice"... shoot to kill... drop a bomb from a drone. Not that I object ;but where does the next generation of intel come from ?

There is a huge weakness in this policy ;and you make a valid point. We now learn (thanks to another enemy organization) Wikileaks this operation was the culmination of a number of years of interrogations in GITMO and elsewhere. The President's hands were forced to move fast or risk having OBL move on .


Your point being that effective intel could've been extracted by interrogating OBL is correct. But the President doesn't want anything to do with that . He and his people are more inclined to apply "criminal justice' ;and all that implies. (right to remain silent ) .


Edit... by the way there is an old saying (paraphrase ) the first three reports in war are wrong.There are some that will latch onto information corrections as proof that there is some kind of coverup or conspiracy.

What? No citation that shows that our criminals have more rights than our citizens?
BTW we have WAY more privacy than you do, by a long shot. I have some inside knowledge as my sister goes through her citizenship application for the USA.

Really... Have seen many cases where the privacy rights of suspects excede the rights of the neighbors to know...

YOU don't have the right to kill intruders... or even the right to own guns that Big Brother doesn't know about... and pay to license those they so graciously let you pay to possess, as long as you keep paying.

Most of mine aren't registered... will never be registered... and certainly won't pay for the privilege of having. Because I have the constitutional right to have them.

And if I find someone in my house at 3am and my wife is in bed with me... they won't be walking or running out.. (or carried out breathing).and they will never see the sun rise again. And its my right to do... and I won't be prosecuted for it either.

OK... your sister applied for her citizenship so you know all about this...

Um... OK... except for the fact that process is a joke... and what she has to know is really basic stuff.

Yeah I know what's involved... I've taken someone all the way through the naturalization process before from getting them a green card to their becoming a citizen with an American Passport. Specifically my wife. No she wasn't fast tracked... and it wasn't an automatic right by marriage. Contrary to popular opinion.

Specifically my wife.Mail order? LOL!
Anyway how many years ago was that?

Mail order? LOL!
Anyway how many years ago was that?

Pull your head out of your azz, OK? Perhaps YOU have a mail order bride...

I met, dated, and married mine in Europe while I was living and working over there. And I was over there for more than 5 years.

I can also work in the EU at my discretion (only need my work papers stamped when I arrive)... as well as move there if I decided to again (have an apartment there and I have several vehicles registered over there now). Without any papers I haven't already possessed for the last 24 years.

I know, you've told us how incredibly powerful and important you are several times. :rolleyes: I'm guessing the naturalization process you 'took someone through' likely didn't include biometrics.

We now learn (thanks to another enemy organization) Wikileaks this operation was the culmination of a number of years of interrogations in GITMO and elsewhere.

He and his people are more inclined to apply "criminal justice' ;and all that implies. (right to remain silent ) .Hello:

Toms statement above describes to a tee, the schizophrenic response we have. We LOVE what Wikileaks did, but we MUST declare them to be the enemy... I don't know about you, but that makes NO sense... Just like this entire episode makes no sense.

In fact, what Obama did, demonstrates the correctness of dealing with Bin Laden as a common criminal.. As it turns out, it took a law enforcement action to get him, whereas two wars and the loss of more than 5,000 of our troops couldn't do it.

Does torture work? Sure. So does shooting down demonstrators. We don't do the latter because it would change WHO WE ARE, just like torturing people changed WHO WE ARE. Unbelievably, if you listen close enough, there IS a call for its return... Congressman Peter King says that torture is a "moral imperative". Is shooting down demonstrators next?

Yes, of course he should have been brought back to NY to stand trial, just like any criminal.. But, apparently, NY and Peter King are too scared.

What becomes clear here, is that there are some amongst us, who DON'T relish our Constitutional safeguards. Oh, they SAY they like the Constitution, but they really don't... If they LIKED the Constitution, they'd close Gitmo. After all, Gitmo was set up specifically to AVOID the Constitution...

That, all by itself, is offensive to me...

It's HARD to keep a democracy... Oh, it's easy to TALK about it, but it's hard to DO it. That's why there aren't many. But, we used to PROMOTE our brand of democracy, instead of sinking down to the level of rest of the world.

excon

I know, you've told us how incredibly powerful and important you are several times. I'm guessing the naturalization process you 'took someone through' likely didn't include biometrics.
How about sticking to a topic you know something about for a change.

Or should I start insulting YOUR wife or family in return as you have done.

Well, did it include biometrics?
Reminder, you started this topic back in post #64. It's OK to say you don't know about something; also if you're going to post inflammatory topics be prepared to respond to somepne when they ask you to back up your words with evidence. Otherwise you just sound like any other mad old man who follow fanatical rhetoric without the ever bothering to check out facts.

As it turns out, it took a law enforcement action to get him
Didn't know the Seals were working for Holder.


Does torture work? Sure.
My response says nothing about torture. The information gathered was due to a combination of interrogation techniques. Peter King is incorrect if he is saying that coercive techniques were the only ones employed.

Either way ; the point is that IF it was a 'law enforcement ' operation they would never've extracted the intel. It was the CIA that did the interrogations .


Yes, of course he should have been brought back to NY to stand trial, just like any criminal.. But, apparently, NY and Peter King are too scared.

Roosevelt ordered a hit on Admiral Yamamoto in WWII called 'Operation Vengeance '. Obama ordered a hit on OBL. In both cases they were enemy leaders at war with the US and legit targets.


We LOVE what Wikileaks did, but we MUST declare them to be the enemy...

I don't... they forced the President's hand . Anyway you slice that it's not good news regardless of the outcome.

Pelosis Flip-flopping like a fish out of water... but does this really surprise anyone?

It seems everyone's jumping on the bin Laden bandwagon — even former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Just five years ago, when President Bush was still in power leading the hunt for the world's most wanted terrorist, the California Democrat said capturing or killing Osama bin Laden was not vital to national security.

“Even if he's is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. Even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer,” she said according to Powerline.

But now the deed has been done and the president is a member of her own party, Pelosi has changed her tune. “The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida,” she said on Monday.

“I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment.”

I do agree with what Ex is saying. I'd like to further the last part a bit if I may (and I may).

People here, and elsewhere, defend the American position for no other reason than they are, in fact, American. I think that is what skews the outlook and objectivity of an event such as this.

I read posts supporting the killing, cheering it, praising its inherent "goodness", etc. etc. I find this very disturbing and quite telling.

Some of the American people believe Osama, a man alleged to have murdered thousands of innocent people, deserves death. I ask, who are they to make that judgement? Is there a number of people one must kill before this type of 'justice' is exacted?

After 9/11 people in the middle east rejoiced at the chaos and death that was taking place in America. It upset and enraged many an American and most probably other nationalities as well. However, the same scenes played out this week all across America. We, as North Americans (I'm Canadian), viewed 'those' people as moral heathens and wanted revenge (not justice, revenge). All that this hate and ignorance produced was the killing of many more innocents, a deep hatred and division between East and West and a very costly and unnecessary war.

The American leaders always preach the values and moral fibre of America and its people. How then, does one understand those values when it is the Americans celebrating just like the East did when their 'victory' happened? Or when the U.S Government wants someone dead, he dies? How is that justice, proper justice not revenge fueled justice? Can't preach what you don't practice.

I suppose this rambling connects with my earlier posts about the media fanning the flames of the American people. Indeed, when you stir up the people and have them react to emotion rather than logic, people will accept any action, any lie, any explanation. All for the "greater good". Being what exactly is even more confusing now than it was last week.

Pelosis Flip-flopping like a fish out of water....but does this really suprise anyone?

It seems everyone’s jumping ... blah blah blah
Copy and pasted word for word from any one of these conservative blogs:
"Just five years ago, when President Bush was still in power leading the hunt for the world’s most wanted terrorist, the California Democrat " - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=%22Just+five+years+ago%2C+when+President+Bush+wa s+still+in+power+leading+the+hunt+for+the+world%E2 %80%99s+most+wanted+terrorist%2C+the+California+De mocrat+%22&btnG=Google+Search)

Please refer to the source next time instead of passing other's words as your own.

Thanks.

Well, did it include biometrics?
Reminder, you started this topic back in post #64. It's ok to say you don't know about something; also if you're going to post inflammatory topics be prepared to respond to somepne when they ask you to back up your words with evidence. Otherwise you just sound like any other mad old man who follow fanatical rhetoric without the ever bothering to check out facts.

Exactly WHAT in the hell does biometrics have to do with someone's application to immigrate to the USA? YOU used them in the same post.

MY opinion on Biometrics? Here it is.

Its just a form of ID that's far less susceptible to counterfeiting. I personally take no issue with it. And I think its good idea for that reason. It proves you are who you claim on your ID. Particularly with passports it's a good idea, same with green cards and drivers licenses when they can be applied. Any of those are faked far too often. Particularly with Illegals and wannabe terrorists.

Yeah... my fingerprints are on file and have been for nearly 30 years for ID purposes, most of which were job related. The oldest was an application for a GOV surplus M-1 Garrand via the civilian Marksmanship program back in the early 80's.

I don't see YOU posting any damn proof to back up your incessant inflamitory comments.


But then in typical liberal fashion... liberals have to prove nothing... and conservatives CAN priove nothing with your tunnel vision relating to reality and facts.

didn't know the Seals were working for Holder.Hello again, tom:

It wasn't WHO did the police action. It's that it WAS a police action no matter WHO did it.

excon

Exactly WHAT in the hell does biometrics have to do with someones application to immigrate to the USA?It does now. BTW you said "I've taken someone all the way through the naturalization process" and now you specifically talk only about the application. Intellectually dishonest.


I don't see YOU posting any damn proof to back up your incessant inflamitory comments.Which ones smooth?

Ex, it was a take down ,an assassination . There was no intention of taking him into custody. Roosevelt didn't order Yamamoto arrested ;he ordered him killed . The same is true in this case. It was a CIA intel and US Special forces operation using US military hardware.

When he splashed off the carrier he got the ultimate waterboarding treatment.

It does now. BTW you said "I've taken someone all the way through the naturalization process" and now you specifically talk only about the application. Intellectually dishonest.

Which ones smooth?

It was a major PITA... took me repeated visits... the idiots behind the counter were hired by affirmative action and were lucky to be able to dress thjemselves. Cost me thousands of dollars... and took several applications because the idiots couldn't decide what they were supposed to do.


There arte a LOT of different ways to come here, and even more different applications depending on circumstances and desired end-game. And if you are given the wrong forms for your situation, your applicatiuon is rejected and of course they keep the money and tell you to get ANOTHER form... send even MORE money and the waiting process starts all over.

YOU or your sister would not be dealing with the same applications, forms or offices. IF she was married to an American SHE might (assuming the forms haven't been revamped too)... but you wouldn't be doing anything. Her and her husband would be.

It was a PITA 20 years ago... (she was naturalized five years after she got her green card ).. and it hasn't gotten any easier since 9/11.

That's juut getting the green card. THen she has to wait years... apply for citizenship... you both use up some of you are vacation days in interviews so they make sure you actually know each other... SHE has to take some tests about her basic knowledge of the USA... and it is basic info. Easy to learn as long as she's not dumb as a stump. Eventually she's going to be given her naturalization date. Along the way you will be throwing wads of cash at the INS. And they have gone up several times since she got hers. Its significantly more expensive now.

In a nutshell that's it. Lots of time... lots of money... a few ulcers and grey hairs and if you are really lucky... only a few parking tickets from when the meter expired when you was in line. All the parking near the Arlington office were two hour meters... MAX... no free parking... not parking garages at that time. YOU waited in line longer than that.

Do I ever want to go through that with anyone again? Not on your life.

I have more respect for the people at the DMV than most of those I encountered at the INS. And I know people that like used car dealers better than the DMV.

And I saw complete idiots at two different INS offices (in two separate states)... not just that one.

I really hope the quality of employees has gone UP in those years since. I doubt it with the problems we have with illegals.

Ah the joys of immigration, now smoothy if you could just tell the Iranians, Iraqi's, Afghans, etc, how difficult it is they would never leave home but of course with no border to speak of all those other americans just walk right in.

Getting back to the late lamented Osama bin Laden into a basket, when will we hear the true story? It started with a rocket then a seal team defending itself against OBL and then he resisted with no weapons and was shot in the head, no doubt rendering him unrecognisable, and the mysterious helicopter failure, another blackhawk down. We have now had a good look at the compound, fairly poor even by Pakistani standards, no mansion, and sticking out like a sore thumb in what is a cantonment, places of great civic pride in Pakistan. Your military aid dollar is well spent in Pakistan

when will we hear the true story? It started out with a rocket then a seal team defending itself against OBL and then he resisted with no weapons and was shot in the head, no doubt rendering him unrecognisable, and the mysterious helicopter failure, another blackhawk down. We have now had a good look at the compound, fairly poor even by Pakistani standards, no mansion, and sticking out like a sore thumb in what is a cantonment, places of great civic pride in Pakistan. Your military aid dollar is well spent in Pakistan
It was always the Navy SEALS, never a rocket, he was always shot in the left eye, the helicopter had a hard landing, wouldn't relift, and had to be destroyed before they left, it's a million-dollar house instead of a cave, no kidney dialysis, was full of American products like Pepsi-Cola and ice cream bars, and was poorly guarded because he felt so sure of his safety so close to military housing.

Clete ,in the fog of war ,often the initial reports require revisions.

WG's last sentence is the story to explore . I don't think there is any doubt about ISI complicity ;and perhaps senior levels of the Paki military and government . AND... if that's true then what are the chances of Riyadh and Beijing not knowing ?

Ah the joys of immigration, now smoothy if you could just tell the Iranians, Iraqi's, Afghans, etc, how difficult it is they would never leave home but of course with no border to speak of all those other americans just walk right in.

getting back to the late lamented Osama bin Laden into a basket, when will we hear the true story? It started out with a rocket then a seal team defending itself against OBL and then he resisted with no weapons and was shot in the head, no doubt rendering him unrecognisable, and the mysterious helicopter failure, another blackhawk down. We have now had a good look at the compound, fairly poor even by Pakistani standards, no mansion, and sticking out like a sore thumb in what is a cantonment, places of great civic pride in Pakistan. Your military aid dollar is well spent in Pakistan

Hell, numerically OUR biggest problems are with the people from SOUTH of the border. But to be fair, there are others.

LEGAL immigration isn't the problem... that may be a major PITA... but there are limits and controls. And I'm not a Xenophobe. Just someone that expects them to follow the law and the rules to get here. Its not a free-for-all and we have the right to set limits... they have no right to demand anything else or violate the law.

Obama's been flip-flopping so much on that story I am beginning to doubt if we really got him or not... I'm not so sure now its not a political stunt to prop up his failing policies, performance and ratings.

When he gets caught in a lie he flip-flops... then just shuts up and refuses to present any information. Like his College transcripts that would prove either he is or isn't anywhere near as smart as he claims he is. A smart guy would put up or shut up. A smart guy has the grades to back up his claims.

Actually that's very much common for someone who gets caught in a lie. Liars paint themselves into a corner most of the time.


They can give OBL this lengthy religious funeral... but they can't do the same thing for EVERY one of our own soldiers because it violates the liberals belief we have a mandated freedom from religion? Um... OK.

They can give OBL this lengthy religious funeral... but they can't do the same thing for EVERY one of our own soldiers because it violates the liberals belief we have a mandated freedom from religion? Um... OK.


He can approve the release of thousands of pictures of prisoners being abused without worry of inflaming the Muslim street ;but a pix of a dead OBL is a no no .

Edit... I just checked ,and in fact, the President reversed his initial decision to release the abuse photos .

I actually think Obama would like the true story told; however, the Pentagon does its usual 'doctoring' of the truth to suit what they think the people want to hear and also justify the use of force.

As it stands, no body and no pictures. Obama must know this makes him look somewhat bad and I think he's just trying to reverse the damage done by the initial (and subsequent) falsehoods reported.

Also, no internet or cables in the compound, yet they recover laptops and other technology? Is that suppose to lessen the fact that they did not capture him, rather kill him?

I could see that spin. We couldn't subdue the unarmed 54 year old but that's OK, we got his computer!

Maybe he was writing a book?

Just read the above post and I do agree about the pic being too graphic to show. The video of JFK is still one of the most disturbing images I can recall seeing, ditto for the autopsy pics. Those were and still are very available for public consumption and were released at a time far more sensative to graphic content than today.

I actually think Obama would like the true story told; however, the Pentagon does its usual 'doctoring' of the truth to suit what they think the people want to hear and also justify the use of force.

Ummm... he's the President. What he says goes. Actually it isn't a bad call;and is rooted in concern for troops safety .
Damned if he does ,damed if he don't . I guess he felt troops safety outweighed tin foil hat theories.

Whatever the Pentagon may want to do or not... Obama is the Commander in Chief.

The video of the assault, I can understand not being released.

A picture of a tall dead bearded human turd... isn't going to reveal any tactics, etc.


A photo of a dead SOB is somehow inflamitory... but the fact the SOB was killed isn't somehow?

My opinion is F**K what they think. Shoot anyone that complains.

I still remember the video of that ugly toothless fat Palestinian Cow celebrating on 9/11. Want inflammatory... THAT was inflammatory.

Uhhh... you both think the President has the final say in every matter, every decision, period? Matter for another day I suppose.

Never mind this troops safety B.S. They are in a war for goodness sake, I doubt the release of a picture is going to do anymore damage to the reputation America in the East.

Furthermore, you can't just come out and say he's dead and then not provide ANYTHING, zilch. Although, when asked, Obama said it's him because he's seen the pictures. Rest easy all those who doubt, the Obama administration says so! Oh wait, Obama, the Commander-in-Chief (lookout!) said so.

Nevermind this troops safety B.S. They are in a war for goodness sake, I doubt the release of a picture is going to do anymore damage to the reputation America in the East.

Troop safety is B.S. now huh? Glad to see the things I fight for are all for not in your book. As much as you don't want to think so, it does come down to troop safety and mission completeness. It has nothing to do with reputation, as that is already out the window.

It's all about fueling the fire. The fire's there, its burning. Why throw fuel on it when troops are standing next to it?

Why do you want a picture so bad? Believe me, if Osama is not dead, we will know shortly enough.



The hardest part is yet to come...

Take it in context, or don't, I don't really care. The fact that you are involved in the military (if that's what you meant) does not change my opinion. It's not one of those say it to my face things, if it were, I'd do that too.

I submit it is not about troops safety at all. The danger was there before, it is still there, it always will be when war is present. It is really about confirming to the masses what actually happened, with truth and facts to support those truths.

I never supported any war with the East. The soldiers from my country and yours that flew over there to fight in it obviously have a different perspective than I do. That's fine, go fight. However, I don't support that action and those fighting accept the dangers they face when entering into service.

As for wanting the picture so bad, I never said I was longing for the picture, just a truthful recounting of the event. It's been 10 years of news and the aftermath is a shoddy, make no sense story. That's what is being offered, I'd think that would bother the troops a bit, no?

Ya get me?

Yes, the danger is there and always has been and always will be with war. However, displaying the picture has a chance of further fueling the fire.

Why upset the enemy more-so than they already are? Especially with troops lives at stake?

Yes, when I signed up I was aware of the choices I made and the danger I will put myself in. Small price to pay for the freedom/safety of my loved ones. Does that mean I want to further upset the man that wants to kill me by showing the world a picture of his dead leader? Hell No!

The question of supporting the war is hard one for me to answer because I am in the military. Do I support it? Yes & No. But it's happening regardless of what I think and there is a risk to my family and I will do what I can to mitigate that as much as possible.

I think I am misunderstanding what you're saying. Are you saying the choice to NOT display images are not because of troop safety as proclaimed?

I think the rationale behind the choice to NOT display the images is a crafted one aimed at invoking the understanding of those who want to see actual proof.

If you mention the danger posed to the troops by showing the pictures, you effectively quell those that demand to see it. It almost alienates them because if they still want to see the pictures or any proof, they appear to have no regard for the safety of those involved. I think it serves their purpose all to well to be all that legitimate and reason.

I really don't think it increases the danger of the war. I highly doubt someone who has not reacted to the news of Osama's death will all of a sudden 'snap' if he is shown a picture. As you stated, we will know whether he is indeed dead or not with or without pictures, when it is revealed, that same danger is as real and as extensive as releasing the pictures, just a few days later.

I don't want to come across as arguing our respective stances on the war or the many factors involved, I participated in this thread because I was not, and am still not, convinced of the story we have been told. Whether the man is dead or not is actually irrelevant to the danger posed or my position really. I think if they killed him, had no issues with that, clean, cold operation executed perfectly, the story would make perfect sense. It not making sense makes me wonder.

Rememeber, originally (which seems like months ago) the admonistration said the difficulty with the pictures was the graphic content. The quickly re-worded that and brought in troop safety, now they merged the two reasons so that is what we have. Add the burial at sea (which also referenced Islamic tradition and troop safety at different times) and I know pretty well that someone is baking something and telling it to us.

I made this point on the new OP...

Hitler killed himself and he was cremated . Nobody saw the photos yet no one questions his demise .

His chared bones were scattered to locations undisclosed. The reason for this was so that a shrine could not be built for him by the Hitler cult.

The story surrounding Hitler's death made perfect sense. It was over, he was finished, he killed himself. Seems pretty plausible.

Osama may be dead; however, the story makes no sense. Akin to that magic bullshi... oops... bullet story about JFK.

Tell the truth and all those that doubt, won't.

And the fact every time he says something the story changes.

Like a small kid that's telling a lie.

You might have been inclined to believe the first story... but by the time its changed several times... dramatically. You are left wondering exactly what really did happen.

From Truthers to birthers to deathers now? All I know is Native Americans are offended (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/05/osama-bin-laden-geronimo-code-offensive-_n_857669.html) by the code name, some leftists are offended by the celebration of his death, some are offended we didn't take him alive... and I just give our guys the credit for taking him out no matter the circumstances

I would have been so proud had they used my family name or a name connected to me as their code word for this momentous occasion.

From Truthers to birthers to deathers now?

You forgot the naïve and blind.

The story surrounding Hitler's death made perfect sense. It was over, he was finished, he killed himself. Seems pretty plausible.

Osama may be dead; however, the story makes no sense. Akin to that magic bullshi...oops...bullet story about JFK.

Tell the truth and all those that doubt, won't.

I do have to admit the administration has badly flubbed the pr and the narrative ,which leads to these types of suspicions. When they become grassy knoll nonsense is when nefarious intent is attributed to the incompetent attempts to get ahead of the curve. I'd tell the President that it's hard to spike the ball when you continuously drop it.

Well it seems incompetence has migrated from intelligence to PR. There must be someone somewhere making up these stories and spinning it all.

uhhh...you both think the President has the final say in every matter, every descision, period? Matter for another day I suppose.


I believe that decisions are made and actions taken at levels below POTUS because he cannot make every decision or know everything that is going on I believe that sometimes decisions are made or actions taken that should have been brought to the presidential level but weren't. But these are exceptions rather than the rule. So I do believe that POTUS does have the final say in decisions that should be made at his level.

Wonder what UBL had been doing all those years to keep himself, uh, entertained - besides planning to kill more people that is? Wonder no more...

Exclusive: Pornography found in bin Laden hideout (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/13/us-binladen-porn-idUSTRE74C4RK20110513)

Anything with a goat ? He was getting regular deliveries.

I hear this link was on his most visited website list.

...---{{{ MIDGET GOAT PORN }}}---... (http://www.midgetgoatporn.com/).

The NY Post has identified the top 10 porn titles found in his lair. (I think Wikileaks is the source) .

Titles found among Osama’s porn stash:

* Talibuns
* Debbie Does Abbottabad
* Oral Qaeda
* No Fatwa Chicks
* 91⁄2 Sheiks
* IE-DDD
* Suicide Bombshells 6
* Behind the Green Burqa
* 1000 Arabians in One Night
* Weapons of Mass Seduction
* SEAL Team Sex
* Sleeper Cellmates
Porn discovered on bin Laden's computer, sources say - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/international/porno_sama_had_big_jihad_on_QSLrV2tQkxSRIROmP81naP #ixzz1MKBmxp99)
'Goats gone wild ' is not on the list .

anything with a goat ? He was getting regular deliveries.

So you think Osama was a goat rider, does he have that in common with americans

so you think Osama was a goat rider, does he have that in common with americans

We use them for milk, petting zoos and roasting over an open fire. We don't 'ride' them. Well, maybe they do in San Francisco.

so you think Osama was a goat rider, does he have that in common with americans

What makes you think Osama was riding the goat. I think he was getting ridden BY the goat.

You missed the reference but don't worry