Hello:

Recent polls suggest that more than HALF of the Republican party believe that Obama is not eligible to be president because he wasn't born in the US.

If there are any of you here, do you want to come out? We can then have a NICE conversation about it...

excon

What I would like to see is a release on his records like presidents before him have had to do. Rather then millions spent on him trying to hide it. Until then Im on the fence about it. There seems to be too much conflicting information out there. So why not clear the air and get it over with so we can bury it ?

The polls are all over the place, but I am on the record as a non-birther and that hasn't changed.

Citizenship is not where you are born if born to American parent.
But yes, the big deal on not releasing it, does not help but make one wonder

Hello dad:

So, I'll put you in the wondering group... How is it, that you IGNORE the birth certificate on file in Hawaii?

By the way, the $2 million figure is the total amount spent on legal fees for his campaign... Some winger said that it was to defend himself against this, and some other wingers believed it.

However, if legal challenges have been made, they're certainly PUBLIC, and you certainly could refer us to them, couldn't you?

And, I suspect, since I don't believe it's really ABOUT his birth certificate, IF he "cleared the air" with some other document, I'll bet ALL THE GOLD I OWN, that the birthers wouldn't believe THAT document any more than they believe the one he already released.

So, this is one of those "when are you going to stop beating your wife" questions, that no matter HOW he answers it, were he to do so, would be all the PROOF the birthers need that he beats his wife.

Besides, the underlying conspiracy that foments stuff like this, is SOOOO bizarre, that is stretches credulity. To suggest that he is a Manchurian President is laughable.

In the final analysis, he DID release his birth certificate. You just don't believe it. The government in Hawaii says it's real. You don't think they're involved in the conspiracy, do you?

excon

I'm on record since 2008 as saying the birther issue is bogus.
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/politics/ineligible-candidate-275470.html
It is a huge mistake for the Republicans to fall into the trap of attempting to make it an issue .

Further, I'm waiting for a Republican candidate to take out the phony Donald Trump... the sooner the better . He's a lefty who's real estate deals usually means someone's property is sacrified to the public good so a casino can be built. It did not surprise me that in the last election cycle his biggest donation was to Rhambo Emanuel.

However, if legal challenges have been made, they're certainly PUBLIC, and you certainly could refer us to them, couldn't you?



snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate (http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp)

Obama Birth Certificate Challenge Turned Down By Supreme Court (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/08/obama-birth-certificate-c_n_149229.html)

And it continues on and on...

Obama: Where have all his records gone? (http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=100613)

Cashill wrote, Khalid al-Mansour, principle adviser to Saudi Prince Al-Waleed bin Talal, lobbied friends like Manhattan Borough President Percy Sutton to intervene at Harvard on Obama's behalf. Al-Mansour reportedly mentored founders of the Black Panther party in the early 1960s.

Hello again, dad:

Your WorldNetDaily article is full of silliness like the one above. This is NOT journalism. It's gossip.

Excon

I didn't know this would morph to his school records. That has much more merit than the birther issue.

It could be that the birther question is a surrogate question for the one on many people's minds regardless of their political leanings... "who is this guy" ? As dad says .it goes beyond birth certificate into a number of things that are considered reasonable disclosure.
Is he the President he told the left he'd be. Protesters in a San Francisco fund raiser beg to differ.
Is he what the right expected ? Yeah and worse .

It could be that the birther question is a surrogate question for the one on many people's minds regardless of their political leanings ......."who is this guy" ?Hello again, tom:

I think you're right. He's not one of us. He's different. He doesn't understand American exceptionalism. His middle name is Hussein, for crying out loud. Did I mention that he's black? Did you see the way he bows to foreign leaders, and then apologizes for the US? Nope. He's unAmerican, all right. Of course, he's a plant. I think he's a Muslim.

But, if he is, I can't figure out why he started a THIRD war against a Muslim country.. Or, why he ramped up the Afghanistan war. That's a war against MUSLIMS. Or why he attacks Muslims with drones in Pakistan. I don't know why he didn't prosecute Bush for torturing Muslims. He thinks holding MUSLIMS at gitmo FOREVER with no trial is a good idea.. I can't figure out that stuff..

If he's not a Muslim, maybe he's a commie.

excon

In the 1st paragraph all I'd concure with is the part about not appreciating American exceptionalism. The part about apologizing for America is an off shoot of that .

I think what is considered the standard birth certificate has been released .

But how do you explain the resistance to the release of his Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, Illinois State Bar Association records... did I miss any ?

It could be that the birther question is a surrogate question for the one on many people's minds regardless of their political leanings ......."who is this guy" ?Hello again, tom:

In my view, the question is, why is it being asked of THIS president? I wouldn't bring it up if I'd have heard the question being asked of any WHITE president. Strangely, I haven't.

excon

But how do you explain the resistance to the release of his Occidental College records,Hello again, tom:

At this point in time, I only have the very right wing, and the very birther WorldNetDaily saying that it happened. Call me skeptical.

excon

Hello again, tom:

In my view, the question is, why is it being asked of THIS president? I wouldn't bring it up if I'd have heard the question being asked of any WHITE president. Strangely, I haven't.

excon

But in fact Bush's college records were released . So were John Kerry's . McCain took some heat for not releasing his Naval Academy records while admitting he graduated 5th from the bottom of his class.


Hello again, tom:

At this point in time, I only have the very right wing, and the very birther WorldNetDaily saying that it happened. Call me skeptical.

excon

Would you believe the college then ? They say they cannot release his records to the public . This is true .But he can request and release them . He hasn't.
Occidental College :: Obama FAQs (http://www.oxy.edu/x7992.xml)

Like I said... it wouldn't be an issue if people knew who the real Obama is . Everyone else had a long resume of public service to dissect. All Obama had was the 2004 keynote address to the Dems.

Would you believe the college then ? They say they cannot release his records to the public . This is true .But he can request and release them . He hasn't.Hello again, tom:

So, this is as I suggested... The records simply aren't releasable unless Obama does it.

Simply ADDRESSING the issue would give it more legs... Let me ask you this... IF there IS a long form birth certificate, and Obama released it, do you think that would put an END to this?? Really??

I think you're right.. The question the right wing is asking is, "who is this guy"... Releasing documents won't satisfy that crowd.

excon

I don't care about the birth cert. The US needs to seriously look at the Constitutional provision anyway. It was put into the Constitution to deny the possibility of an Alexander Hamilton Presidency. Since then there have been other high ranking officials in and out of the Federal Government who have been denied the possibility of becoming President.

The reason he is President is in my view because he had a razor thin public record available for scrutiny . Going into the next cycle we will at least have a 3 year record as POTUS to scrutinize. I don't think the rest of the stuff I mentioned will be in play except with the Jerome Corsi crowd .

Simply ADDRESSING the issue would give it more legs... Lemme ask you this.... IF there IS a long form birth certificate, and Obama released it, do you think that would put an END to this???? Really???
Then he would be addressing the issue, like it's a serious one. Apparently an AP rep and one other individual have gone to Hawaii's office of vital records:

Index data referred to in HRS §338-18 from vital records in the State of Hawaii is available for inspection at the Department of Health’s Office of Health Status Monitoring at 1250 Punchbowl Street in Honolulu. The public will be asked to provide identification and sign in to inspect the names and sex of all births, deaths and marriages that occurred in the state. Data are maintained in bound copies by type of event with names listed alphabetically by last name.

The index data regarding President Obama is:

Birth Index
Obama II, Barack Hussein
Male

What would releasing college papers prove?

Aren't you even curious ? Forget the tin foil hat stuff like the speculation he got financial aid as a foreign student. I'd like to see his thesis ;his authored submissions to the Harvard Law School and as a professor in Chitown . It would give some insight ;just like his candid comments on open mike are quite revealing .
Just like his comment that the founders screwed up by writing a Constitution without 'positive rights' .
Maybe we could compare writing style against his 1st autobiography .

It is outrageous that he is so guarded with things that should be automatic for a man who claims to aspire to a transparent administration. Let's have some transparency then.

aren't you even curious ? Forget the tin foil hat stuff like the speculation he got financial aid as a foreign student. I'd like to see his thesis ;his authored submissions to the Harvard Law School and as a professor in Chitown . It would give some insight ;
Insight into what? In college, I wrote a sympathetic paper on the stigmata. Does that make this Protestant a closet Catholic? In library grad school, I wrote a paper on how the traditional paper card catalog is a transitional object. Does that tell you more about me?

It is outrageous that he is so guarded with things that should be automatic for a man who claims to aspire to a transparent administration. Let's have some transparency then.
Guarded? How do papers written when one is in his teens and twenties have anything to do with who he is in his forties?

If he produced them, then you would sit back in your recliner and say "Thank you. Now I'm happy"?

With all due respect;with the exception of anything from his Occidental days ;the rest of them are graduate thesis ; law school submissions to a major law journal that he was editor of ,and papers that most others publish in some form (many professors are required to publish often )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publish_or_perish

I think ;just like Elena Kagan's law school writings ;it would give tremendous insights into his thinking .

I think ;just like Elena Kagan's law school writings ;it would give tremendous insights into his thinking .
Those papers were written twenty or more years ago. We already know his "thinking," so what more would you hope to learn?

I think ;just like Elena Kagan's law school writings ;it would give tremendous insights into his thinking .
What revelation did you get after reading her papers? One headline -- "Papers reveal Kagan's lighter side." Had you watched the confirmation hearings, you would have picked up on that right away.

What revelation did you get after reading her papers? One headline -- "Papers reveal Kagan's lighter side." Had you watched the confirmation hearings, you would have picked up on that right away.

That means you saw the headline and not the paper ,or a serious critique of it .

“To the Final Conflict: Socialism in New York City, 1900–1933”
http://www2.nationalreview.com/dest/2010/05/14/d97825a3f83b2160760859cea7807a50.pdf

In it she attempts to understand why a radical socialist party never emerged in the US . Her conclusion I belleve reveals much about her at the time of the thesis .

"In our own times, a coherent socialist movement is nowhere to be found in the United States. Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future, of capitalism's glories than of socialism's greatness. Conformity overrides dissent; the desire to conserve has overwhelmed the urge to alter. Such a state of affairs cries out for explanation. Why, in a society by no means perfect, has a radical party never attained the status of a major political force? Why, in particular, did the socialist movement never become an alternative to the nation's established parties?"

She determines that the reason the Socialist Party never caught on in the US was internal conflict.

"Through its own internal feuding, then, the SP exhausted itself forever and further reduced labor radicalism in New York to the position of marginality and insignificance from which it has never recovered. The story is a sad but also a chastening one for those who, more than half a century after socialism's decline, still wish to change America. Radicals have often succumbed to the devastating bane of sectarianism; it is easier, after all, to fight one's fellows than it is to battle an entrenched and powerful foe. Yet if the history of Local New York shows anything, it is that American radicals cannot afford to become their own worst enemies. In unity lies their only hope."

From that one can conclude that at the time she was sympathetic to radicalism . From that one can look at her body of work to see if her position evolved .

We do not have a sufficient body of work from the President to make such an evaluation. He hides his past . We already can see his rhetoric is not consistent although when he is caught in a moment of candor it is very revealing .

Her conclusion I belleve reveals much about her at the time of the thesis .

And how old was she then? And how old was she when she was confirmed?

The best thing to do in school is to choose a topic that is so out-there or darned interesting and intriguing, so that you aren't bored with it by Day Two of researching and writing it. Just because I wrote a paper titled, "Is Jesus gay?" doesn't mean I believed it.

In her acknowlegement she said she was inspired by her brother's radicalism and was attempting to clarify her own. Now in my view there is evidence she did evolve . But we have that history for comparison. We don't with Obama.

Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future, of capitalism's glories than of socialism's greatness.

She is comparing apples and apples (glories of one system and greatness of another) in order to further the thesis. She couldn't very well have compared the "glories" to the "pitifulness," could she?

Did you ever write a college or grad school paper?

But we have that history for comparison. We don't with Obama.
And we need that because?

I tried real hard not to disrespect Bush once I had read he was just another rich frat drunk. Why did that get shared with us?

Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future, of capitalism's glories than of socialism's greatness.

She is comparing apples and apples (glories of one system and greatness of another) in order to further the thesis. She couldn't very well have compared the "glories" to the "pitifulness," could she?

Did you ever write a college or grad school paper?

Yes I did ;too many for my liking frankly . My Sr. thesis was a statistical comparison of the NY State legislatures votes to determine if there were a consistent regional blocks . This was in the early days of computers ,and I spent quite a few hours collecting the data and working with a programmer to feed these self typed programing cards into the computer . When we (he) final ironed out the program ,I was able to evaluate the data and write a 60 page thesis on it . I would've had a much easier time in school now with the resources available on the web. Much of my time was spent travelling to university libraries in the Kansas and Oklahoma area.

Now ; in my time at school I became aware of my fellow political science and history major's beliefs. I have kept in touch with some of them and can assure you that some of them have not deviated in their positions in 35 years. So to say that her positions then are irrelevant is speculation.


She is comparing apples and apples (glories of one system and greatness of another) in order to further the thesis. She couldn't very well have compared the "glories" to the "pitifulness," could she?


Sure she could've if she believed one or the other was a pitiful position. I would never call socialism a great system.

And we need that because?

I tried real hard not to disrespect Bush once I had read he was just another rich frat drunk. Why did that get shared with us?

Real cute .

But by the time he ran for President you had 2 terms as a Governor ,his years in private business to evalutate his executive abilities... and yes his college records from Yale and Harvard business school. He was also very candid about his conversion from his wild past to becoming a born again who abstains from alcohol.

Again ;the most you have from Obama is a bunch of present votes in the Illinois Senate ;and a few party line votes in the US Senate while he was preparing for his Presidential run. We had NOTHING but the thinest resume to go by for the position he was elected to.

Yes I did ;too many for my liking frankly . My Sr. thesis was a statistical comparison of the NY State legislatures votes to determine if there were a consistent regional blocks .
So what kind of a rabble-rouser in the statistics or political field does that make you?

Much of my time was spent travelling to university libraries in the Kansas and Oklahoma area.
At least by traveling from library to library to do research on note cards, you and I weren't tempted to plagiarize, as is the problem today.

So to say that her positions then are irrelevant is speculation.
I said that?

Sure she could've if she believed one or the other was a pitiful position. I would never call socialism a great system.
But that was the parallel to the first part of that sentence, "Americans are more likely to speak of a golden past than of a golden future." It leads into her thesis statement: "Why, in particular, did the socialist movement never become an alternative to the nation's established parties?"

Again ;the most you have from Obama is a bunch of present votes in the Illinois Senate ;and a few party line votes in the US SenateHello again, tom:

Sounds like sour grapes to me. You knew this back in '08. He got elected anyway. What's new?

Look. If ANYBODY should be complaining about him, it should be ME. I BELIEVED him when he told me he was going to close Gitmo.

excon

Sounds like sour grapes to me. You knew this back in '08. He got elected anyway. What's new?

P.S. And "present' votes in Illinois mean "Go back and work some more on it."

What's new?


This time around we have a record to compare against .

Hello again, tom:

And, you'll take your best shot. The shooter, however, has yet to be revealed.

excon

When were the nominees in the 2008 contest determined?. in the spring of 2008 . I don't know what this rush is to find a challenger . Actually it's the Dems who are anxious to find a challenger to the President . What does that tell you ?

Actually it's the Dems who are anxious to find a challenger to the President . What does that tell you ?Hello again, tom:

I don't know what either side is trying to say... It doesn't matter.. The Republicans hung their hat on the wildly unpopular Ryan plan. THAT is the issue that will re-elect Obama and cause the Dems retake the House.

I don't know who will run against him. Does it matter? The birther thing is just a distraction... Will it go away after he's re-elected? Probably not.

excon

So to say that her positions then are irrelevant is speculation.

I said that?

Here was your words.


And how old was she then? And how old was she when she was confirmed?
Those papers were written twenty or more years ago. We already know his "thinking," so what more would you hope to learn?

The implication is that what was written then is irrelevant in evaluating the candidate today.

The implication is that what was written then is irrelevent in evaluating the candidate today.
That's your implication, not mine. My words don't support your implication.

I don't know what this rush is to find a challenger . Actually it's the Dems who are anxious to find a challenger to the President . What does that tell you ?
No rush. No anxiety. It simply is curiosity as to who will bubble up out of the morass.

Hayley Barbour just struggled to the edge and got out and ran off to the showers.

That's your implication, not mine. My words don't support your implication.

OK I give up... why did you reference when the college year papers were written ?

ok I give up ....why did you reference when the college year papers were written ?
I was saying people change or adjust or revise or rethink their beliefs or even write papers to meet a need or please a prof or to be provocative or to satisfy the terms of an assignment. The papers have to be considered in that light. It's not a black-or-white issue as you want to make it: relevant or irrelevant.

It is not a given that people change... and how would we know that without the reference of a starting point ?

Hello again, you two:

The difference is that liberal people explore other schools of thought. Conservatives NEVER do. They grew up rigid, and they're STILL rigid.

excon

The difference is that liberal people explore other schools of thought. Conservatives NEVER do. They grew up rigid, and they're STILL rigid.
Bingo! Fifty points to you! (Being rigid, or thinking you are, is believing you are safe.)

The difference is that liberal people explore other schools of thought.

I guess that's what led me to conservatism .Well that and the fact that American leftwing liberalism was no longer defensible .

I guess that's what led me to conservatism .Well that and the fact that American leftwing liberalism was no longer defensible .

Hi Tom,

At least you said, " no longer".

Tut

American liberalism ;or more specific the Democrats took a radical turn starting with the McGovern candidacy. Before that people on the liberal side like JFK understood that you can't tax your way to prosperity ;and understood and embraced the US role in the world .

Hayley Barbour just struggled to the edge and got out and ran off to the showers

He's clearing the way for his close friend Mitch Daniels to enter the race. Barbour can help Daniels with the Southern vote ,and with his fund raising organization. I think it's a real good probability that the Republican will be a Northern Governor (or former Governor ). Romney has the edge currently with his organization. Daniels will be able to match him with Barbour's help. T Paw. Needs help. Right now that's my top tier if anyone asked me.

The difference is that liberal people explore other schools of thought. Conservatives NEVER do. They grew up rigid, and they're STILL rigid.

I'm not rigid, I just stick with what works.

I'm not rigid, I just stick with what works.Hello again, Steve:

Works? WORKS?? Let me show you how it DOESN'T work...

Once upon a time there was this young Jewish Boy Scout from a liberal family. He was on a weekend trip with his troop when the Scoutmaster (the HEAD guy) told the scouts that he expected them to go to church... Of course, in this little town, there wasn't a synagogue, and even if there was, the service was on Saturday.

So, this young liberal Jewish boy went where the rest of the scouts went. When the guy in robes called everybody up front to take communion, the young Jewish scout went...

Now, I don't know if you can imagine the response to that boy from the RIGID SOB'S who ran the place, but I can tell you, it wasn't pretty. But, like David against Goliath, I stood my ground.

RIGID doesn't work.

excon

So far what works is the Green Chile Cheeseburgers.

Here it is... end of the silly birther issue . The President just released his long form birth cert. It shows he was born in Hawaii .

President Obama's Long Form Birth Certificate | The White House (http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate)

Hello again, tom:

Like I said, the Trumpster doesn't think it's real... Big, mistake for Obama.

excon

Trump is a side-show

What will the Birthers think is wrong with the long-form birth certificate? Someone found a 1961 manual typewriter in a museum and used that? Will they compare the doctor's signature with his "real" ones?

What will the Birthers think is wrong with the long-form birth certificate?Hello again, WG:

They'll think it was planted, of course.

excon

Now all he has to produce is his certificate of circumcision, and maybe the Donald will want him to drop his pants on the Oprah show next week.

That ought to get some ratings.

Errrm, isn't it all a bit late and rather academic anyway.
Mr Obama was duly elected to serve as president and that is exactly what he is doing.

Errrm, isn't it all a bit late and rather academic anyway.
Mr Obama was duly elected to serve as president and that is exactly what he is doing.
The press release that accompanied it said that the birth certificate topic has become divisive and the discussion so off-the-chart (i.e. by potential presidential candidate Trump). The intent is to steer public discussion to the important concerns of the economy, the wars, gas prices, etc.

Hello again,

The issue was NEVER about his birth certificate... To the birthers, it's about Obama not being one of us. This won't change that.

excon

The press release that accompanied it said that the birth certificate topic has become divisive and the discussion so off-the-chart (i.e. by potential presidential candidate Trump). The intent is to steer public discussion to the important concerns of the economy, the wars, gas prices, etc.

Bwaaahaaaahaaaa . Then he got on the plane to interview with Oprah... so much for those important concerns.

He could've done this during the 2008 season .The reason he finally put the nonsense to rest is because of the polling data Ex mentioned... that the issue was gaining traction.


Hello again,

The issue was NEVER about his birth certificate... To the birthers, it's about Obama not being one of us. This won't change that.

Excon

Probably right. But wait how much hay his campaign makes when they claim "they(bitter clingers ???) " are trying to fire the 1st Black President. Both sides play that card well.

Both sides play that card well.Hello again, tom:

There was a political consideration about this release, to be sure... I guess we'll see if it was the right calculation.. Frankly, I think they were ahead of the game when people like Krauthammer and Rove were calling Trump a clown. The Obama offense was being taken up by the stalwart GOP. He was winning by shutting up. He didn't need to chime in. Chiming in is playing defense...

Besides, if you were Obama, wouldn't you LOVE to run against Trump? They should have let that happen.

excon

Agreed . But my best guess is that Trump was/is not a candidate . I bet the ratings on his show is up.

Besides, if you were Obama, wouldn't you LOVE to run against Trump? They should have let that happen.
Trump is now a hero. He forced Obama's hand.

Personally, I wish Trump and Obama would both go away. Now if we can just end this Trig truther crap we could move on.

Trump is now a hero. He forced Obama's hand.

He played into Obama's hand . I won't rest until Trump gone from the political scene . What does Trump and Obama have in common ? They both found common ground in attacking Paul Ryan last week .
Oh yeah... and they both supported Rhambo's mayor run.

What is Trump's plan for Medicare ? Slap tariffs on China ? He's a 'Smoot-Hawley' Republican .

Well has the matter been put beyond doubt? Or are we going to find out how this dumb black boy who rose to be president could possibily have been accepted into Harvard? Trump your racism is showing

well has the matter been put beyond doubt?Hello clete:

Conspiracy theorists never let the facts stand in the way. Didja hear about those weirdos who believe the worlds scientists concocted a story about global warming?

excon

well has the matter been put beyond doubt? or are we going to find out how this dumb black boy who rose to be president could possibily have been accepted into Harvard? Trump your racism is showing

Pandering to the fears of the uninformed is the only way he can get the attention he craves. Any fear will do!

That's true ex, I just read in my paper a week or so ago that we went to Iraq for the oil.

We know he's not a 'dumb black boy' (Clete's words ).. because Joe Biden told us he isn't .

“I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” ...“I mean, that’s a storybook, man.”

That's true ex, I just read in my paper a week or so ago that we went to Iraq for the oil.

We did, Saddam had cut secret deals with France and Russia and it made W mad as all get out!!

Oil-for-Food Programme - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Programme)

BBC NEWS | Business | France's economic ties to Iraq (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2757797.stm)

Bush's Pre-War Iraq Oil Deals Alarmed BP | Informed Comment (http://www.juancole.com/2011/04/bushs-pre-war-iraq-oil-deals-alarmed-bp.html)

Bush didn't like Iraq cutting his own deals, and he was locked out of the money.

The rest is history, ongoing I might add.

So Bush didn't like the fact that the Europeans and Russians were violating the terms of the 'Oil for Food Program' that was destroying the sanction regime that they expected the US to enforce ?

Yep!!

... and the nations that were being enriched by violating the 'Oil for Food Program', that the corrupt Kofi Annan clan was administering,were also the nations that led the opposition to Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Yep!!

Hi ex Yes I heard that one, but the scary part is it happens to be true

Lets see the leading scientists of the hypothesis manipulated data to support a preconceived conclusion ;suppressed any evidence that ran counter to their hypothesis ,and then emailed each other bragging how they did it... no conspiracy there .

Follow the money!! Who gets the oil that the French and Russians were cut out of??

You guessed it George did, and Tony, and the Chinese are right in the thick of things.

Just because its not in the news anymore doesn't mean the war is over.

lets see the leading scientists of the hypothesis manipulated data to support a preconceived conclusion ;suppressed any evidence that ran counter to their hypothesis ,and then emailed each other bragging how they did it ... no conspiracy there .

Well of course it wasn't a conspiracy, Tom, a conspiracy only happens when you don't get your way, this was just some misguided people who weren't try to decieve us, just tieding up the data which is what they have probably done all of their academic lives. It brings us to the point of asking what other hypotheses are wrong and manipulated to suit the idea that pure research should be fostered to keep these dills employed and out of the way of those trying to actually produce something. I mean these guys weren't supported by oil or coal companies or anything like that otherwise the data would have been tiedied in another direction.

There are some things I still don't get;
Why are the heat readings taken in one of the consistently hot spots of the globe?
Why are the CO2 readings taken within spitting distance of an active volcano?
Why are heat readings taken near air conditioning condensers.

Perhaps the data did need tieding up to make sure these were included?

Perhaps the data did need tieding up to make sure these were included?Hello again, birthers... I mean climate change deniers...

Didn't you read the Birth Certificate?? It explains all about climate change.. Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

Back to the OP for a sec. As I recall, it was supporters of Hillary Clinton that drummed up this birther conspiracy when her campaign started fizzling.

I also believe it was the NY Times that first questioned McCain's eligibility. Progressive Michael Ruppert along with Canadian journalist Barrie Zwicker and others drummed up the 9/11 truther conspiracy, which led to the "Bush did it" rallies by The All People's Coalition in San Francisco. It certainly wasn't a right-winger that ran with the "Bush lied" and the multitude of other Iraqi conspiracies attributed to Bush, or the "Trig truther" conspiracy.

I'd also add that most of the usual suspects on the right dismissed the "birther" nonsense early on. Seems to me the left just loves to stir up sh*t.

Seems to me the left just loves to stir up sh*t.Hello again, Steve:

So, the right wing LIES through their teeth, and when they're caught, you say the left loves to stir up crap... DUDE!

excon

Um, what lies would you be referring to? Give me proof, not posturing.

Um, what lies would you be referring to? Give me proof, not posturing.Hello again, Steve:

I don't know... Didn't you hear Trump saying there's something ON the birth certificate that he doesn't want us to see? I did. Didn't you hear Trump say he has two investigators in Hawaii? I did. Didn't you hear Trump say his investigators reported to him that the birth certificate WAS NOT THERE??

I heard all that. It's a lie. Just cause you didn't hear it, doesn't mean he didn't say it.

excon

Trump is no right-winger.

Ah, the standard No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) statement. How I miss thee.

Trump is no right-winger.Hello again, Steve:

Sorry. TODAY he's a right winger. I agree that he wasn't a right winger yesterday, and he probably won't be one tomorrow.. But, TODAY, he's playing that roll.

I understand, though... I'd disown him too.

excon

Ah, the standard No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) statement. How I miss thee.

See ex's comment, he speaketh the truth.


Sorry. TODAY he's a right winger. I agree that he wasn't a right winger yesterday, and he probably won't be one tomorrow.. But, TODAY, he's playing that roll.

He changes his stripes swiftly and often. His last big campaign donations went to Schmuck Schumer and Rhambo Emanuel.

What is his Party ? Well now he's a Republic... He was also one in 1987.

In October 1999, he registered in the Independence Party because he was considering a run for President as a Reform Party candidate in 2000. August 2001, switched to Democrat. He converted back to being a Republic in 2009. In fact he's the classic re-pubic

He changes his stripes swiftly and often. His last big campaign donations went to Charles Ellis "Chuck" Schumer and Rahm Israel Emanuel.

What is his Party ? Well now he's a Republican ....He was also one in 1987.

In October 1999, he registered in the Independence Party because he was considering a run for President as a Reform Party candidate in 2000. August 2001, switched to Democrat. He converted back to being a Republican in 2009. In fact he's the classic re-Republican

I fixed your post for you so that others would understand it.

Still think you are site editor ?

Nope but I play the role of an adult here. :D Others not so much.

:rolleyes:

Nope but I play the role of an adult here.

And once in a while you give us a good laugh.

Excellent!

Speaking of climate change, apparently the recent tornado victims had it coming (http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/28/tornado-global-warming/) for being deniers.


The congressional delegations of these states — Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, Virginia, and Kentucky — overwhelmingly voted to reject the science that polluting the climate is dangerous. They are deliberately ignoring the warnings from scientists.

Not just once, but at least twice ThinkProgress blamed deniers (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2011/04/28/global-boiling-denier-tornadoes/) for the tornadoes, i.e. weather, that killed almost 300 people.

Craig Fugate, FEMA administrator actually has it right. "Actually what we're seeing is springtime," he said.

Not just once, but at least twice ThinkProgress blamed deniers for the tornadoes,
That what you got from the aticle? That ThinkProgress thinks the deniers caused the tornadoes? Really?

What did you get out of it?

That they climate change is causing more turbulent weather.
Where did you see in that article that the people who reject the science caused the tornadoes?

This is what I got from the article... Thinkprogress thinks that C02 is 'greenhouse pollution'.
That and yes ;they make a bizarre and irrelevant connection between the votes taken by those States Congressional delegations and the tornados .

The latest "deniers "??

Craig Fugate, administrator of FEMA and Grady Dixon, assistant professor of meteorology and climatology at Mississippi State University.

the stronger-than-usual tornadoes affecting the southern states were actually predicted from examining the planet's climatological patterns, specifically those related to the La Nina phenomenon.

"We knew it was going to be a big tornado year," he said. But the key to that tip-off was unrelated to climate change: "It is related to the natural fluctuations of the planet."
Tornadoes whipped up by wind, not climate: officials - FRANCE 24 (http://www.france24.com/en/20110428-tornadoes-whipped-wind-not-climate-officials)

We should stay on topic. Start another thread if you wish.

Thus the site moderator spoketh.

Correct. Do it.

Bwaaa haaa haaa .
This is Ex's OP and he brought up the climate change angle.
I'll gladly comply if he makes such a request.

This is what I got from the article.....Thinkprogress thinks that C02 is 'greenhouse pollution'.
That and yes ;they make a bizzare and irrelevent connection between the votes taken by those States Congressional delegations and the tornados .

Hi Tom,

I think you are right. Perhaps the article is intended as tongue-in-cheek.

It's a bit like saying the Linconshire ( Newton's birth place) city council has voted to reject Einstein's theory of Relativity because they reject the possibility that space can be curved.

Tut

A bit of a tongue in cheek response Tut .
It of course assumes the connection of the Congressional delegation voting on a position based on their 'denial' rather than other considerations like budgetary .

... That and the difference between an established proven theory like 'Relativity' opposed to a very debatable hypothesis.

a bit of a tongue in cheek response Tut .
It of course assumes the connection of the Congressional delegation voting on a position based on their 'denial' rather than other considerations like budgetary .

....That and the difference between an established proven theory like 'Relativity' opposed to a very debatable hypothesis.


Hi Tom,

Sounds like you have made a reasonable interpretation of the article to me.

As for the science of climate change... I'm not going there again.


Tut

Ah, the standard No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) statement. How I miss thee.

I like your analogy particularly the part of "no true democracy would start a war". This argument can be used against BO on so many levels but I will let you think of them

I like your analogy particularly the part of "no true democracy would start a war". This argument can be used against BO on so many levels but I will let you think of themCorrect. Obama is more like Bush than one could ever have imagined.
Just a note: I never used any analogy that used the words "no true democracy would start a war".

Correct. Obama is more like Bush than one could ever have imagined.
Just a note: I never used any analogy that used the words "no true democracy would start a war".

They are embedded in the article, should be careful to read your example

They are embedded in the article, should be careful to read your exampleThen it's best to use text that refers to the article's mention of it, so instead of saying "I like your analogy particularly the part.. " it's best to say "I like the analogy they make... " and quote the link, not my words. Thanks.

Now don't go allover PC on me NK

Hello again,

I've been thinking... Does anybody really believe that Hawaii is part of the United States?? Come on. They're obviously, not American. More likely, Samoan... Maybe even, Chinese...

So, I wrote a letter to the Governor of Hawaii and asked him to produce his statehood papers... He hasn't responded. What's he hiding? Why doesn't he just show it? What's on it he doesn't want us to see?

I've sent a couple of investigators over there to get to the bottom of it. What they tell me so far isn't good... It looks like Kenya bought Hawaii when we weren't looking...

excon

Well there you are ex and you can kick those other pretenders Peutro Rica out while you are at it, they are hispanic don't you know and could never be true americans and how about Alaska and Lousiana, you bought those and New Mexico, California, Nevada and Texas, you stole those. Doesn't leave much that is authentic does it? Utah maybe?

and New Mexico, California, Nevada and Texas, you stole those. Doesn't leave much that is authentic does it? Utah maybe?

Don't mess with Texas, dude.

Don't mess with Texas, dude.What a tired meaningless old saying to trot out. What does it actually mean? "Nothing" is the answer.

What a tired meaningless old saying to trot out. What does it actually mean? "Nothing" is the answer.

Another useless contribution by the site monitor.

Another useless contribution by the site monitor.No answer = me win. :D

Don't mess with Texas, dude.

So what do we play now some tired tune from the civil war days about a single star. I heard that that place was once called the Republic of Texas, a country in its own right, so someone lost the vision there

No answer = me win. :D

Answer what? The only question you asked you answered yourself.

The reason Obama finally released his birth certificate, it was a campaign move (https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/o2012-made-in-the-usa-shirt-z).

The reason Obama finally released his birth certificate, it was a campaign move (https://donate.barackobama.com/page/contribute/o2012-made-in-the-usa-shirt-z).LOL! Good for him, why not profit and have a laugh at the idiots out there.

The reason Obama finally released his birth certificate -- it was a campaign move.
Sort of like sending the SEALS to get bin Laden?

A nice mug is being offered too. I bought one of those to hang next to the "I love Barack Obama" mug on my wooden mug tree.

It was a two year long conspiracy! LOL!. for a t-shirt. Haha.

Bush told Obama where Osama was hiding. Apparently the money stopped coming in and they had to kneecap him. But they aimed too high.

You have to give credit to a guy who is going to make a billion dollars off T -Shirts.

You have to give credit to a guy who is going to make a billion dollars off of T -Shirts.
And mugs with the same photos. I bought one!