Before anything, I am 26 and she is 22. I have had long term relationships before, however, I am her first as well as her first love. I also do believe of having some sort of abandonment issue and she knows that the most efficient way to hurt me is to block me off her life.

I know it's long but bear with me...

My ex and I started dating in August 2008. We fell in love rather quickly and everything seemed like we were meant to be until maybe 6 months in (cliche I know). I was going through a lot of personal things at the time (school, immigrations issues etc... ) and so I could not always give her the attention she needed. To add to this, we were living 120 miles apart from each others but I had no problem driving down every single Week ends for her.

So fights started happening. Some were because I started questioning her affection towards her ex. She was sooo angry at him because she thinks he emotionally abused her. To me, however, love and hate are very similar so I did not believe that she had moved on like she kept telling me. Sure I should have just taken her word but my guts told me otherwise.
Eventually, after fighting every week for a few months she broke up with me. I was crushed of course... 3 days later she tells me she wants me back, I asked what had changed, and after a conversation she admitted having kissing her ex because she wanted to see if I was right... she wanted to see if she was over him. Of course I believed her when she said she was sure this time, it's all I ever wanted from her so I figured that even though it hurt, at least she did not do it while we were together. I tried to delay getting back with her but a few days later I caved in.

We were once again happy, and in order to avoid fights, I took a habit of backing down (she is extremely stubborn). Whether she was right or not, the fights were so insignificant that I decided to just back down each time until one day when I was having a horrible week, I admitted to doing that and I became so annoyed by her that I told her we weren't compatible. Surely I didn't mean it and I should have not hid all of my feelings. This of course led to her breaking with me the very next day through a text...
I was once again devastated but I had to study for finals and most importantly, my immigration paperwork were due so I pushed the issue until summer.

Once summer arrived I felt so relieved about the idea that all my personal affairs were done that I finally had time to breathe. I asked to talk to her to which she agreed and once she saw how de-stressed and relieved I was, she decided to get back together. However at that point I was just too pissed about how she had broken up with me so I refused.

The summer went by and she kept trying to get me back but each time I refused. Eventually, after she had decided to go N/C, I told her that I missed her and that I was considering an "us" again but that I would not act on it until I was sure. I understand that this was probably not right of me... leading her on like that but it gets worse.
As I told her that, of course she got all excited and decided to hang out, which we did, and each time she thought we would start again, I would crush her hopes by telling her that I'd rather not. The worse I did was by asking her out to lunch and then admitting (she asked) to having slept with someone else over the summer. At that point she literally froze, we had to cancel our food and leave the restaurant right away, she looked dead inside (no movement, no communication whatsoever). She felt completely humiliated and traumatized.
To no surprise of mine, she blocked me the next day, and because I can be extremely stupid, 2 weeks later I did everything I could to renew contact... eventually it worked, she was even still hoping for me to take her back but ONcE AGAIN... I shot her down.
After this we barely stayed in touch until a month later when she sent me a text just to tell me she was dating someone new. At that point I felt so bad about what I had done to her that I tried and be happy for her so we talked and she got to tell me everything about him (how awesome he is, how nice he is and how they made out for 4 hours straight on their first date). I tried to keep face while listening to all this but my heart was ripping by each new facts. However I figured she was doing all that to get to me. When we would webcam, she would even act extremely flirtatious with me. It felt like she enjoyed seeing me in pain, which could be understandable after all that I have put her through.

I'm sure a lot of you can see what happened next... a few weeks later, I told her I wanted her back. That I had finally dealt with all that I had to deal with and that I was now sure of what I wanted (and I honestly was, I had been working on my issues for the last 3 months). She was shocked but also harsh. She told me we were done, that her family did not like me anyway, and that it was too late.

I was so upset with myself at that time for losing her that 2 weeks later, after she decided to go NC again, I placed a rose on her gate with a card saying "i miss you" and went to her work the next day 10 minutes before she got on. To my surprised she agreed to hear me out and so once again I poured myself to her and I said that unless she could tell me while looking in my eyes that she did not love anymore, I would not stop hoping. She could not.
A few hours later I get a text from her telling me to leave her alone and to never contact her again. My heart dropped... I drove back to school in tears, once I got home I sent her one last email saying that I hope we can talk again one day and that I will not stop hoping and if she could not block me off Facebook, I'd appreciate it. The next day she asked why I was still holding on and why I couldn't realize that everything was already lost. She even went as far as calling me creepy.
That was my wake up call, I stopped contact and planned on doing so for as long as possible but then 4 days later she sent me a text telling that she was OK to meet me for coffee if I still wanted to.
This change of attitude completely confused me to a point where I did something I should never have done... I went into her Facebook and read her emails. What I had learned was that her boyfriend at the time had just dumped her and so she was really hurt. Knowing this I kept my guard high, I did not want to be used and so I told her that I would not be able to meet her for a few weeks due to school. She said she was shocked, that she thought I'd jump on the occasion but that that she understood.

So we were back to texting back on forth almost everyday (mostly her initiating it) and of course I asked what she wanted out of me to which she said, after admitting to being dumped, that I was "easy and comfortable" but that she was way too confused to know what she wanted at the time. Of course I respected her feelings and so I decided to be as good of a friend to her as I could (I cheered her up as much as I could but I refused to take time off school to meet her like I used to do when I we were together). Acting like this frustrated her to a point were she got mad at me and said, to my surprise: "just when i was actually considering getting back with you". After hearing this I changed and acted like she wanted me to by trying to take her out on dates. She wasn't sure about the whole idea and so she never said yes, eventually I grew tired of it and stopped trying which she realized and got upset again and pulled me back into thinking she wanted me back to yet again act distant when I tried.

Eventually we did meet for coffee and I was acting properly, I gave her a quick hug, kept the conversation friendly and never made any moves, I was trying to respect her confused state. Her on the other hand became extremely flirty and even did everything she could to sleep with me.I am proud to say I did not, I stopped her and asked if she would feel the same way the next day. Because she couldn't tell me yes, I stopped everything and left for the movie. During the whole time she was all over me, acting like we had never broken up.

Later that week, before heading back to school, I stop by her work, kissed her and asked her whether it felt more right kissing me or her most recent ex. She said him, so I left. At home I caved in again and read an email from her Facebook she had sent her ex. She was trying to renew contact. I was OK with it but I was curious as to why she had told me that she never try to talk to him again, so I called her and asked her once again if she had tried. She said no. I asked if she had EVER lied to me in the past 2 weeks, she said straight up no and then she got curious as to why I was asking. I refused to tell her but instead asked her how I lost so much of her respect for her to lie so bluntly to me like that.

After telling her that I knew she had tried to talk to him she freaked out asking how I knew, who told me and who told that person. She was freaking out thinking that this guy was talking crap about her to other people. I tried to get her attention back on the issue at hand, her lying to me, but she could not, she became hysterical, could barely breathe, even crumbled to the floor according to her. Later on she started cussing me out for doing this to her, that she was finally getting used to the idea of him leaving her but that by doing this I was traumatizing her for life. Then right after apologized all she could and began asking nicely how I knew.
I felt so bad for her that I told her the truth. Once she calmed down and asked me why I would do such a thing, she asked me to make her feel better before she went to bed. I told her I would if tomorrow she could try and so the same for me.
Well the next day she sends me a text saying to once again leave her alone and that she does not want to talk to me ever again. I was soooo pissed at that point that I lost it and told her that I thought it was a great idea seeing how horrible of a person she was, which is why her ex dumped her. I was going for pain and I'm ashamed of it but it worked as her sister blew up at me 15 min later and called me name for being so manipulative.

Well it has now been a month since it all went down and I am still a mess. I have not tried to contact her ever since that incident besides once to apologize for calling her a horrible person.
I have forgiven her for everything. Her birthday is in 3 days and all I can think about is calling her, wishing her a happy birthday/new year, send her a gift, and hope for us to talk again. I understand I have done her wrong many times but as twisted as it may seem, I honestly cannot imagine my life without her and all I want is to make everything right.
After reading douzens of posts here I'm sure most of you will tell me to move on, stop trying, that we are obviously not right for each others etc etc but honestly, I cannot. The reason why I reacted the way I did was out of love and I suspect the same for her. I lost control a few times and blew it but I don't want to give up.

My questions are:
Is there anything I can do besides leaving her alone?
How do you guys think she is feeling?? Will she ever honestly apologize? Or does she have nothing to apologize for?

I have thought too long and too hard to construct an objective opinion on things at this point, that's when you come in.

Thank you everyone!

That's a long book of drama you wrote.
All I can say is that you seem to like playing the childish games with her. Both of you seem to want the other back only when the other one is doing fine without the other, then when you get the chance to be back together, you suddenly back out. The whole thing seems like childish drama to me. Why would you want to continue with something like that?

I think that this thing has been so over, but neither of you can let go. Instead of working together you have taken every opportunity, and there have been so many, to hurt each other.

I think leaving each other completely alone is your answer. Not just a few months, but at least a year, so you can grow without the drama, as you sound more like kids, than adults.

I do agree with the immaturity, it surely does appear that way; however, knowing this is only half the battle, I cannot help but hoping for something more.
I am mostly angry with the way things ended and the only reason I will not contact her for her birthday is to ensure she has a good one. Once the new year hits however, I very much would like send her an apology letter and let her know that even though we both have done each other wrong, I forgive her and hope that 2010 will give her the opportunity to forgive me.
It would help if I knew she was at least feeling as badly about it all.

Thank you for your answers, I need to face reality no matter how hard it will hit but I can't seem to see it by myself.

You would help yourself, and you both, by breaking the cycle of this hurting drama, and leaving her alone, no matter what. Forget the apology, and anything else to do with her.

What are you crazy too??

i do agree with the immaturity, it surely does appear that way; however, knowing this is only half the battle, i cannot help but hoping for something more.
I am mostly angry with the way things ended and the only reason i will not contact her for her birthday is to ensure she has a good one. Once the new year hits however, i very much would like send her an apology letter and let her know that even though we both have done each other wrong, i forgive her and hope that 2010 will give her the opportunity to forgive me.
It would help if i knew she was at least feeling as badly about it all.

Thank you for your answers, i need to face reality no matter how hard it will hit but i can't seem to see it by myself.

Forget about writing her an apology letter. Write yourself one, apologize to yourself for acting so immaturely and promise yourself you won't in the new year.

Wouldn't it be bad to leave everything the way it is now? I'd hate for her to believe I think badly of her when it is not true and I know that I would love to hear from her that all is forgiven so I figured that she might want to hear that from me. It would at least give us a chance to maybe talk in the future rather than both hating each other.
I don't understand your question but I'm assuming it's rhetorical.

Would writing this letter really only bring more pain than good? If I'm hoping for a potential friendship down the road should I really not apologize to her? (I have always been friends with my ex and it has always worked given enough time had passed. None of those relationship were this full of drama though).

You both need time apart to grow up about your actions. Getting back in touch with her now only keeps the childish games going.

You both need time apart to grow up about your actions. Getting back in touch with her now only keeps the childish games going.

So now comes the oh so cliché question of "how long should i cut off contact"?
I cannot help but hoping for some sort of relationship (not necessarily romantic) at the end of this road and as I understand the timeline varies with people, I'd like to know what you think is a good estimate.

Thank you for the help

Give yourself a few months. You both need time to settle your thoughts. She will probably try to contact you later down the road, but when she does, keep the conversations light and tell her you need your space. And stay off all the texting and Facebook stuff. None of that is going to help the situation. You both need room to grow.

Obviously you don't have a clue as to what your doing or why and that's the reason you just stop and back up so you can think, and not make things worse, as you have a habit of doing.

I guess you have forgotten this,

I have not tried to contact her ever since that incident besides once to apologize for calling her a horrible person.
So what's the need to be apologizing again? Then there was this,

Will she ever honestly apologize? Or does she have nothing to apologize for?

So there is something you expect from her besides your apology that's driving this need to contact her. Forget it.

You are forcing things for your benefit and its just better to leave her alone and get your own act together as you can't force a relationship, OR friendship, and neither is happening right now.

That may be how you have done things in the past, but its not going that way now.



What are you crazy too??
Doing the same thing over, and over, and expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.

You seem to fit that bill, from what you have written in this make up/break up drama of yours.

You seem to think that time, and small gestures of apologies for very bad behaviour, is somehow going to earn you a spot on the roster in 'some sort of relationship' as you say, with this woman.

You showed the worst of yourself, and treated her like cow poo, and expect that somehow, she is going to forgive and move into another relationship with you- yet again? You manipulated her privacy to gain information to use against her, i.e. the new boyfriend, and left her dazed and confused as to how you obtained this information, and led her to believe that her boyfriend was trash talking her. You worked her to pieces, over and over again, and you have such a large ego, that somehow you think that can all be put behind you, and she will come around again?

I can tell you that you would have pulled this garbage with me ONCE, and you'd never have a second shot. Why you want to keep thinking that you can weasle your way into her life again is beyond me.

She needs to be left alone, as she has said, and as her sister has also said. Her family doesn't like you, and I can see why.

You have a lot of growing up to do to learn how to treat a person with respect and consideration. Those two qualities alone will build a foundation of trust between two people with one common goal, of developing a relationship together.

You were very disrespectful toward her. All I can say is that I hope you will learn from what you have done, and try harder to be a more honourable man the next time you meet someone.

So I have decided to follow everybody's idea and leave her alone. I would like to think I understand my wrong doings but I also understand that it is a process and I do, just as much as her, need some space to see a clearer picture.

Jake2008, you words are harsh but it may be what I need to hear. I am in no way proud of what I have done but I accept the fact that I screwed up. I completely disrespected her by disregarding her request to be left alone and by then reading her mail; however, I did own up to it. It might have taken me a good 20 minutes after confronting her as I was hurting a lot but after realizing what I was doing to the poor girl I told her the truth. I know that only helps so much and it doesn't change what I had done.

I am confused as to why I appear as such a bad guy though. I understand I did a lot of things wrong, but doesn't she also have a part in all this? I honestly thought the faults were shared equally but apparently I was wrong. I have tried to make a list of what we both did that we shouldn't have but I'm afraid I'm coming short on a few things... care to elaborate why you think I did her more wrong than she did me?

I do want to become a more honorable man out of this of course. I have started going to church as well as talking to people and me being here, on this forum, asking for strangers' objective point of view is my newest step.

So like I said Jake2008, your message did hurt a lot but I really appreciate your honesty.

I tend to agree with Jake ;it does however take two to tango,but you can only be responsible for your actions some of which were very disrespectful. The relationship was toxic.
I hope you'll have learned how not to treat people in the future.
Now leave her alone and see this as a wakeup call.

There is always a 'dance' when things become toxic, and argumentative. But, if you read your post carefully shinni, you will see that you took the lead here, and were the stronger dancer.

Trust is a very hard thing to establish when only one person thinks they have it; because when suspicion and anger cloud judgment, it will only wear the other down to the point where they give up, because they can't get through.

Personally, I have a problem with people who read other people's email looking for 'proof' of infidelity, or someone who goes through their partner's wallet, mail, phone records and texts etc. When it reaches that stage of the game, there is a definite disadvantage to the one being under suspicion. They are fighting an invisible foe.

Before a relationship reaches that stage of the game, where trust and communication have not been present, is the time to actually talk, and carefully listen. It is far better for both parties to to bring up and address problems, before it turns into a toxic mess as amicon said.

Everybody needs to be trusted and respected in any relationship. When that starts to come apart, so does the relationship.

While I don't doubt she played her part in being a part of the problem, I think that you instigated most of the worst of it in how you reacted by going to such extremes. It is a shame really that simple honesty could have averted this loss.

Then again, some people bring out the worst in us, and that could be part of this too. Maybe it's quite possible that no matter what the both of you did, there would be no real compatibility on which to build a foundation. Better to find that out now, rather than a few years down the road, married with a few kids.

Good for you for going to church, and putting yourself out there to get opinions on your actions, good or bad. Only good things can come from that. Anything that gets you to a place where you become a better person, friend, boyfriend/husband, can ony result in good things for you. I wish more people would do this kind of evaluation because all too often thinking and behaviour doesn't change, and the next relationship will be the same as the last. Kudos to you. Keep up the good work.

Its not about who has more blame, you can only own up to your part. The fact remains that you had chances to overcome your issues, and didn't. Now there is too much resentment, anger, over all bad feelings, to even think apologies will be accepted, or working together is even possible. That's why you leave each other alone to work on yourselves, because you can't work with each other.

Thanks to the both of you. I still do not see the whole picture but I hope that time will show me.
In the meantime, no matter how much I wish I could take things back or apologize and show her how badly I feel about it all, I will not. Doing so would only beneficiate me, it would be selfish of me and I guess that I have done enough of that. It really sucks to think that I am the one who screwed it all up as I really honestly do love this girl. It also sucks to think she will be better off without me but so be it.

I will never stop hoping for her to decide to talk to me again, and if I ever get so lucky I will make sure to be ready for it, but in the meantime I will keep working on trying to figure out all the wrong I have done and also work on forgiving myself (which is going to be the hardest part now that I see clearer)

Jake2008, I thank you for your words. I have been trying for months now to figure out what she could possibly be going through as well as why but it was always in vain. Most of my friends always took my side and just called her a "b*tch" but deep down I knew it wasn't right. Your posts have shown me a whole new road that I would have never found myself and I really think you nailed her feelings dead on. I'd very much like to know if any of this is fixable but I see that it is too soon to think this way. We first both need to heal and maybe one day things can change.

I have read so many stories about people asking for a second chance and never getting it and seeing how I basically threw away about 3 chances really angers me with myself.

Thank you also for the support.

Its not about who has more blame, you can only own up to your part. The fact remains that you had chances to overcome your issues, and didn't. Now there is to much resentment, anger, over all bad feelings, to even think apologies will be accepted, or working together is even possible. Thats why you leave each other alone to work on yourselves, because you can't work with each other.

I agree completely and I think, I hope, that knowing all this can help me move forward and become the person I should be. I just wanted for her to know how sorry I am but like I said previously, that wouldn't be fair for her.

Thank you for your help as well Talaniman.

You're on the road to gaining some valuable insights and
I wish you good luck in your future.

Shinigami, wow long letter! Most people have been where you are! I am sure some people would just say forget it. I was 23 recently separated form my 1st husband. When I met the "EX", We later married and divorced because I had some serious issues, nothing Gary did could or would do would be right. After many arguments and breakups, we finally split up for good in1992. I never really lost track of him over those years! He married, and divorced, I was in a relationship or two, but nothing like the relationship I had with him! He knew and knows me in ways nobody else ever will. I remarried and so did he, We both are still married, I have an 11 year old, he has a 5 year old. Now what! He lives in Indiana, I live in Arizona. I'm not leaving my son and moving back there anymore then he will leave his daughter and move here. If it wasn't for our young children I have no doubt that we would be together now, because he is and always will be the love of my life! I know we will be together someday! He feels the same way! Maybe you wonder why I tell you all this, well I am now almost 46 and he is 48. I have not seen him in 17 years, We miss each other very much! We email each other at least a few times a week! Oh quit checking her personal emails you get what you deserve doing that! Just trust that your love is enough! In the end does it matter who else she is or has been with as long as she ends up with you! And remember this an Argument is just an Argument! Don't let 17 years pass, and have kids before you realize you screwed things up that now, others can be affected.

Shinigami, wow long letter! Most people have been where you are! I am sure some people would just say forget it. I was 23 recently seperated form my 1st husband. when I met the "EX", We later married and divorced because I had some serious issues, nothing Gary did could or would do would be right. After many arguements and breakups, we finally split up for good in1992. I never really lost track of him over those years! He married, and divorced, I was in a relationship or two, but nothing like the relationship I had with him! He knew and knows me in ways nobody else ever will. I remarried and so did he, We both are still married, I have an 11 year old, he has a 5 year old. Now what! He lives in Indiana, I live in Arizona. I'm not leaving my son and moving back there anymore then he will leave his daughter and move here. If it wasn't for our young children I have no doubt that we would be together now, because he is and always will be the love of my life! I know we will be together someday! He feels the same way! Maybe you wonder why I tell you all this, well I am now almost 46 and he is 48. I have not seen him in 17 years, We miss each other very much! We email each other at least a few times a week! Oh quit checking her personal emails you get what you deserve doing that! Just trust that your love is enough! In the end does it matter who else she is or has been with as long as she ends up with you! And remember this an Arguement is just an Arguement! dont let 17 years pass, and have kids before you realize you screwed things up that now, others can be affected.

Hey hovnurse1, I'm sorry to hear about your experience and I also do hope for the two of you to be together again.
If it were up to me I would not let 17 years pass, heck, I would not even let a year pass but unfortunately both party need to agree for that to happen.
I was weak and I did wish her a happy new year as well as expressed for my hope to one day talk again but, with no surprise, I did not get an answer.
I have not and will not even attempt to ever login onto anybody's Facebook again, or invade anybody's privacy, I have learnt my lesson; nor will I ever tried to renew contact again, if she wants to talk, she knows where to find me, trying some more would just hurt my case even more... if it is at all possible. So as much as I hate to admit it, I do think the possibility of us getting back together, let alone talk, are slim to none. However, I don't think I'll ever be able to lose hope.
I'm slowly getting better with the thoughts that she is probably better off without me but that doesn't go without a pinchy feeling in the chest so I try to not think about it but then the dreams come. Still working on forgiving myself.

Anyway, thank you for the support and I wish you the best of luck for the future.

*update*

Hi everyone, I thought I'd post a little update as it helps getting feedbacks.
After 3 months of NC, I am finally getting up the slope. Days seemed less and less painful and it is a relief to finally experience a day without pain. However, about 2 weeks ago she decided to renew contact by telling me that she forgave me months ago and to also ask for forgiveness.
Needless to say I was stocked but in order to not repeat any mistakes I took my time and thought hard about what she was asking. 3 days later I admitted to have not quite completely forgiven her but that I was working on it and her text helped. Since then we've been talking casually back and forth every now and then.
Then for V's day, without me asking, she told me having done some "Valentine's stuff". It was painful to hear but she is entitled to do what she wants as she never claimed talking to me again to get back together so I didn't make a big deal out of it. Still sucked.
Later on, I finally asked what her intentions were to which she said that the guy she was seeing back in November (and still today) was just a rebound and now that she realizes it, she is finally dealing with the loss of our relationship. She continued by saying that she is sure to be in love with me but not sure whether it is a good or bad thing. So for now she is just going with the flow.
Truth is, I feel like a pawn for her to move whenever she so desires. However, I also feel like my wish has finally been granted. I got yet another chance to hopefully have something even though it might not appear like a good idea from an outside point of view.

My friends are telling me that she is using me due to a lack of attention or maybe just to see if she can. Basically that she is playing a game, so I should be careful and ask her what's it going to be and if she doesn't know, she should leave me alone until she does. You either love someone and do everything to be with that person, or you don't .
I think I will do that but this time I do not want to regret anything if things don't go the way I want. Of course, I would love to get back together but only if we can have a sane relationship, and because this can't be predicted, I'd like to start with a drama/ game free fresh start.
What do you guys think about the situation? Everybody seems to be a fan of NC and I've only understood why just recently, but like I said, I feel like this is the chance I've been wishing for.

Thanks

Oh Gosh, here we go again. Obviously after starting to heal, how different things were becoming, and a lousy conversation with her has you wishing, hoping, and thinking all the other stuff you have endured, is gone.

Do yourself a big favor and get back to NC ASAP!



My friends are telling me that she is using me due to a lack of attention or maybe just to see if she can. Basically that she is playing a game, so I should be careful

Listen to them for gosh sake. Leave her alone or get what you got before.