Thanks Tal,
I like the idea of position of neutrality. Hope I can get there.

Sure, I dont mind posting that dream:

The last dream as I recall took place in a restaurant back in NY.
I was passing through the hallway when I came upon a group of my ex's family and others. A couple of them seemed really uncomfortable, but I was greeted and hugged by a few too. As I turned around, my ex was entering the room dressed in a sexy dress and confidently swaggering in almost a slutty way acting as if she didnt see me, kinda laughing. When she realized I started to step up to talk to her, she dove behind a chair. I pull the chair aside, she looked terrified. I said "Remember me?" She stood up, pulled her composure together and said simply "Nope", went around the table to be seated with her group.

I exited the restaurant & as I peered through the series of windows, she would shift back & forth to hide & avoid me seeing her through the glass.

Thats all that I can recall..

So how do you interpret this dream, taking as a given that all the people are parts of you?

And, dude, it's tao with an ao. See? I said that you would forget...

No biggie. Just get back to work... dream hint: What part of you feels uncomfortable being loved? Recognized? Beautiful? (not meaning effeminate)

Sorry again, Tao for the misspell...

I will have to think about that.
Thanks.

Last night, I analyzed my dream that caused me so much pain. I deconstructed every detail and recognized what each "part" was communicating. I not going to list them all here.

Some were obvious and I felt better that these "parts' where coming to the surface. I started to get a bit frustrated as to try to connect all of them. Then this morning, BAM.

What I discovered that in my frustration in trying to communicate with these parts and how to invite them, I realized that they were saying "Hey, I hear you want to have that meeting after all, Were ready." And they did this through that dream. I got what I was asking for.

I believe that this dream was trying to help me look at, understand, and deal with rejection, fear of that, insecurities. How to listen to that "radio" and not to bother trying to use the "flashlight" anymore. Not to fight it, but accept and become more aware.

I thought of another analogy that helps me to recognize and utilize these "parts". That is one of a guitar tuner. Boy, has my guitar been way out, probably for quite some time.

I even wrote a dream for fun that mirrored mine and spun it around 180, to make it a positive one in which I felt no pain or anxiety in. I was almost neutral or indifferent in that dream in terms of outcome, in fact in the dream I was having quite a lot of fun. (thanks chuff, I haven't forgotten your earlier posts re: spinning negatives around)

What Im starting realize is this dream/life is MINE, not HERS. Never to be sacrificed again.

Thanks, Tao for helping me better understand that process.

Last night, I analyzed my dream that caused me so much pain. I deconstructed every detail and recognized what each "part" was communicating. I not going to list them all here.

Some were obvious and I felt better that these "parts' where coming to the surface. I started to get a bit frustrated as to try to connect all of them. Then this morning, BAM.

What I discovered that in my frustration in trying to communicate with these parts and how to invite them, I realized that they were saying "Hey, I hear you want to have that meeting afterall, Were ready." And they did this through that dream. I got what I was asking for.

I believe that this dream was trying to help me look at, understand, and deal with rejection, fear of that, insecurities. How to listen to that "radio" and not to bother trying to use the "flashlight" anymore. Not to fight it, but accept and become more aware.

I thought of another analogy that helps me to recognize and utilize these "parts". That is one of a guitar tuner. Boy, has my guitar been way out, probably for quite some time.

I even wrote a dream for fun that mirrored mine and spun it around 180, to make it a positive one in which I felt no pain or anxiety in. I was almost neutral or indifferent in that dream in terms of outcome, in fact in the dream I was having quite a lot of fun. (thanks chuff, I havent forgotten your earlier posts re: spinning negatives around)

What Im starting realize is this dream/life is MINE, not HERS. Never to be sacrificed again.

Thanks, Tao for helping me better understand that process.

Yeah, Boye! You're right on the money!

Everything you describe is on the path to freedom. Your guitar analogy is perfect. We all get out of tune, and many of us don't even suspect that self-tuning is possible. By tuning yourself you enable yourself to get unstuck from this pattern of sacrifice (important topic to be explored) and to spot it the next time it starts to run its algorithm, interrupt it, and reframe it at the next level.

You wrote: "...How to listen to that "radio" and not to bother trying to use the "flashlight" anymore..."

In this exercise, you are the radio! Neutral, silent, unattached to any position or result, receptive, able to faithfully carry the message from within without distortion. Then, you are you, the conscious mind who responds to the messages of your inner mind and offers the opportunity to update each part's function while resolving your issues. It's a mutual win.

Critically Important
Everyone who gets this far feels frustration. You are suffering and you want the part of you that makes you suffer to stop. But if you express your frustration, or impatience, or any form of disdain, you will be feeding conflict instead of rapport. In such a state, you get nowhere. You must manage yourself so that your voice is calm, your tempo (rate of movement in the dialog) matches that of the part with which you are communicating—don't rush—and your respect for whatever your parts tell you is palpable.

I have worked with hundreds of people who go inward and ask what their "problematic" part is doing for them or getting for them. They ask, then wait, then a reply comes, and then they shake their heads and say "It couldn't be THAT." Invariably, it is that, and that doesn't fit themselves image, so they reject it. Or, they ask and sit and wait for an answer. Muscles twitch, pictures flash before their mind's eye, emotions arise, and, not hearing a voice in their mind, they open their eyes and say "Nothing happened." A lot happened, but it wasn't what they expected, and being stuck there, the can't decipher the message.

You haven't made those mistakes. Looks like dreaming is a good medium for you. Stay open to other possibilities. As you get better at this, more tuned, more aware and sensitive, you might get a wide variety of inputs from your deep unconscious.

You are in the neighborhood of resolution. Your fear of rejection and sense of insecurity are the motivators (remember intention--method--outcome) and dealing with these feelings is central to your method (Is it self-sacrifice?" Only your inner self can know.). What appears to be very clear is that you are on the threshold of finding new ways to function.

Most important, this has nothing to do with her. It is about you, how you organized your mind to cope with life, what patterns you employ and how well they work, and about you can bring up to date a variety of functions within yourself. In your dream, it was fun. Let it be fun all the time, even when you address your deepest fears. For the parts of you who have been longing to communicate with you for years, it will be.

Tao

Thanks so much tao, all so well communicated. Appreciate that. Its continuing to help, even at this moment...

Tao, wanted to say that Ive been getting so many signs and experiencing so much synchronicity today in everything. Ive had some signals in the past few days & recognized them, seems like the floodgates are open. More and more parts are asking to have a chat. Its great.

Im starting to realize not to suppress anything, even Im telling myself to spot putting energy towards her. Even if I know that thought may seem negative, it brings clarity & may bring another part to chime in.

Ive told the parts that Im happy to have them in my room.

Had been jotting notes to myself during all of this, they have been increasingly more focused. One I wrote a couple days ago stated: "This is the only favor she ever did for you" Its true, and realizing that I am grateful. Didn't even need to say thanks.

My last one, among others was "Dream away, Dreamer"

One thing I told the parts is we would be having an ongoing relationship, especially after this breakup.

Tao, wanted to say that Ive been getting so many signs and experiencing so much synchronicity today in everything. Ive had some signals in the past few days & recognized them, seems like the floodgates are open. More and more parts are asking to have a chat. Its great.

Im starting to realize not to suppress anything, even Im telling myself to spot putting energy towards her. Even if I know that thought may seem negative, it brings clarity & may bring another part to chime in.

Ive told the parts that Im happy to have them in my room.

Had been jotting notes to myself during all of this, they have been increasingly more focused. One I wrote a couple days ago stated: "This is the only favor she ever did for you" Its true, and realizing that I am grateful. Didnt even need to say thanks.

My last one, among others was "Dream away, Dreamer"

One thing I told the parts is we would be having an ongoing relationship, especially after this breakup.

Yes, the floodgates are open, and they can stay open if you continue to cultivate the state of mind that enabled you to get here. You are communicating with yourself, not blocking or suppressing information and emotions coming up from your unconscious mind. All these parts are you, organized into images that enable dialog. You won't be having an ongoing relationship with these parts; you are the relationship. It might take a while, but that will eventually make sense. For now, enjoy the discovery and learning that you have entered into. You can learn who you are at levels that will bring you tremendous delight and endless surprise.

This opening might have happened by itself one day in your life, maybe, but it happened now because your heart was split open by her. You are already grateful, so be grateful to her as you let her—and the story about her —go. Let the right moment come to you and finally let go.

Two injunctions:

You will relapse. That's because you have to. With a personal change as big as this, your learning mechanism has to test the new states you create, and the skills that you have just generated. Your mind will find the failure points to see where things break, then break them, then recycle back into what you have learned and put together a new new state. You have lots of choices about how you manage this, but recognize that nothing in the human heart/mind is static.

That's why people practice. So practice a lot. Let everybody inside of you be heard. Soften any hardness that comes up. As you have realized, resist nothing.

Second, any dramatic internal change like this takes you into unfamiliar territory, perspective-wise, awareness-wise, behaviorally, relationally, etc. and the more you can see yourself being comfortable in the new state, the more smoothly it re-manifests when it intends to. If you visualize yourself at some point in the future, being the way you want to be, feeling and acting accordingly, you will feed that outcome. If you jump into that mental image as yourself, seeing through those eyes, hearing through those ears, feeling, breathing, just functioning in that imagined body, you feed that outcome.

Next:
You should continue discovery, reframing and recovery, and "getting to know you" time as long as you want. As soon as the waves of information exchange peak and level off, and as you find yourself making meaningful decisions about how you will be in the future, objections will arise. If they don't, ask:"Is there any part of me that objects to these changes I am making?"There are parts of you that will feel that the changes represent a loss to them. Talk with them.

These objections are not obstacles; they are—or bring about—enhancements, refinements, and greater stability in the totality of your changes. Treat objecting parts with consideration and respect. Ask them (not why) what their objection is, specifically, and know that reframing any objection can occur if you modify your state to include that part's needs. With the same demeanor as when you are communicating with your other parts, negotiate with them to blend their concerns with your real-world needs. Don't ignore any objection.

Tao

Thanks, Tao.
That gives me a lot to think about.

That question: "Is there any part of me that objects to these changes I am making?" helps me try & understand why I feeling the way I do & getting closer in touch with that.

After another restless sleep, an hour here, an hour there, I had quite a few dreams all involving her. They are all helping me to better understand. I find myself feeling empty today & missing her. I am asking myself why? Do I miss her or the conditioning? What void was she really filling? And so on. I hope in the next days & weeks, I can start to let her go...

Thanks, Tao.
That gives me a lot to think about.

That question: "Is there any part of me that objects to these changes I am making?" helps me try & understand why I feeling the way I do & getting closer in touch with that.

After another restless sleep, an hour here, an hour there, I had quite a few dreams all involving her. They are all helping me to better understand. I find myself feeling empty today & missing her. I am asking myself why? Do I miss her or the conditioning? What void was she really filling? And so on. I hope in the next days & weeks, I can start to let her go...

You have been letting her go all this time. You're just not done yet. All the anguish is part of it.

You are asking the right kinds of questions. I recommend that you stay with "What" instead of "Why." You'll get better information.

But the key is to realize that she represents something within you, something that was there long before you met her, and that you are dealing more with internal symbolism/meaning than with her. The work of freeing yourself is within.

Some reading, if you are so inclined, will strengthen your new foundations:

1. A General Theory of Love will tell you how the emotional mechanism with which you are struggling gets put in place. A nice read. (Note to everybody: Every parent should read this book.)

Amazon.com: A General Theory of Love: Thomas Lewis, Fari Amini, Richard Lannon: Books (http://www.amazon.com/General-Theory-Love-Thomas-Lewis/dp/0375709223/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244657388&sr=8-1)

2. Anything by Byron Katie will tell you about the stories you—and the rest of us—create to make meaning in our lives, and how we suffer because of the stories we chose. Katie has an amazing way about her that dismantles disabling stories.

Amazon.com: byron katie: Books (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_5?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=byron+katie&x=0&y=0&sprefix=byron)

I read and liked A Thousand Names for Joy. But her perspective in general is very powerful. Another that looks good is I Need Your Love - Is That True? Amazon.com: I Need Your Love - Is That True?: How to Stop Seeking Love, Approval, and Appreciation and Start Finding Them Instead: Byron Katie, Michael Katz: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Need-Your-Love-Approval-Appreciation/dp/0307345300/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244657543&sr=1-4)

3. Brodsky's Better Being Blog is written by an old and dear friend of mine. He and I have known each other for a long time, trained in martial arts together, baby sat each other's kids, and have been influenced by the same philosophies. His thinking/writing and mine are eerily similar. (so I know that he's smart) You will find his blog very useful.

Brodsky’s Better Being Blog (http://brodskygroup.com/blog)

Last thought for now, check out the word "cathexis." Hint: Along with other sources, go to Amazon.com: The Road Less Traveled, 25th Anniversary Edition : A New Psychology of Love, Traditional Values and Spiritual Growth: M. Scott Peck: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Road-Less-Traveled-25th-Anniversary/dp/0743243153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244659115&sr=1-1) and search cathexis in the book.

Have fun with all this. There is no extra cost for enjoying the ride.

Tao

Thanks so much, Tao.
I will check those out.

Feeling like dog crap today. I in conversation with my parts, asking questions, getting responses and listening. Just can't seem to focus. Keep running through my head how she cheated, how I checked her into her flights, how she blindsided me with a phone call, then lied. Left me with "I want to be single" after 5 years. Pretty confused. I have some clarity, then I trigger something, & I fall apart all over again.

Wow, 5 yrs.
That's a long time.
Love is love.
Maybe she just needs some time.
Girls never really show why they need to breakup.
Its honestly one of the heardest things to do.
Especially if we're "in love"
But yeah, like you said, maybe she has a lot on her plate.
Her family, & her love life.
But basically I'm just saying.. give it some time.
And try talking to her in a couple weeks or something :)
Let me know what happens:)

-Fahtee.(fah uh teaa)

Im on no contact. There won't be any talking. I will give it time though, thanks.

Your welcome.
But you got to keep trying.
If you honestly LOVE her,
Then don't give up on her.
If you do, then you obv don't love her like you say you do.
Yes, it won't be easy & will take time.
But that's what love is all about, patience.

Thanks so much, Tao.
I will check those out.

Feeling like dog crap today. I in conversation with my parts, asking questions, getting responses and listening. Just can't seem to focus. Keep running through my head how she cheated, how I checked her into her flights, how she blindsided me with a phone call, then lied. Left me with "I want to be single" after 5 years. Pretty confused. I have some clarity, then I trigger something, & I fall apart all over again.

OK. Part of you is doing something that you don't want to do. Get into a working state and communicate. Ask that part what he is doing for you by running the tape of her transgressions over and over. You might also treat this continuance of agony as an objection to resolving things the way you have envisioned so far. Something is missing. (It's time to dream ) What will refine the changes you are making in yourself in order to assimilate all this so that the need behind these repeating patterns is satisfied?

Remember that, no matter what you feel, this part is working on your behalf. He's part of you trying trying to get something for you that you need. It's not logical from your perspective because consciously, you want it all to stop. So you're confused. (Hmmm... I wonder if you can imagine what it will be like when it finally does stop.) What would you feel if this episode in your life were all done?

Prepare, ask, & listen. If you don't value what he is doing for you, ask at the next level: "What are you getting for me by doing x?" (We discussed this) Stay in rapport. What need is this behavioral loop fulfilling in you?

And... with all this inner work, it might happen that you become distracted by something else, and just forget to agonize.

tao

Tao, once again that really helps.

In this process and trying to understand its usefulness, I have been open, recognized that there were parts there & communicated and listened.

What I am stating to realize is that I have not been calling the meetings yet. Ive been another attendee. I need to start having a series of ongoing meetings with ones that can help at any given time.

What if I called Hope, Belief, Patience, Willingness, Acceptance, Realization, Success, Self-awareness, Happiness, Desire & Strength in? Maybe I invite Denial in to see what they have to offer.

And know that Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion, among others are waiting outside the door, and ready to be called upon if necessary.

Thanks for that.

Tao, once again that really helps.

In this process and trying to understand its usefulness, I have been open, recognized that there were parts there & communicated and listened.

What I am stating to realize is that I have not been calling the meetings yet. Ive been another attendee. I need to start having a series of ongoing meetings with ones that can help at any given time.

What if I called Hope, Belief, Patience, Willingness, Acceptance, Realization, Success, Self-awareness, Happiness, Desire & Strength in? Maybe I invite Denial in to see what they have to offer.

And know that Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion, among others are waiting outside the door, and ready to be called upon if necessary.

Thanks for that.

Start with Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion. They are most ready to talk with you. They suffer, too.

In this work, take the hard stuff first. The rest flows like a river.

Tao

I see. I will do that.

First, Vanheart is everything okay? You haven't been around for a couple days so just want to know how your doing.

Second, I have been gone for a week myself and just got caught up and I'm going to see if this makes sense...


In this process and trying to understand its usefulness, I have been open, recognized that there were parts there & communicated and listened.


And know that Fear, Agony, Apprehension & Confusion, among others are waiting outside the door, and ready to be called upon if necessary.

I think they've been there the entire time but we as humans are afraid to be fearful so we hide them or ignore them. We try to avoid them and cover them up when in fact they are there to serve us just as much as happiness and joy. Fear, Agony, Apprehension and confusion should not be shunned at all, but rather recognized for their contributions.

When you were searching for answers and you got the thoughts of her cheating, booking her flights and the break up those were these emotions speaking to you. They were saying you have a reasonable expectation of behavior from someone and she did not offer it to you. They are wanting to know why you allowed her to get away with this behavior when others couldn't. The hurt you feel is the hurt fear, agony, apprehension, and confusion feel because they served you and you did not serve them. The inner conflict is not about her at all but rather if you will continue to ignore these parts of you that are trying to serve you in the future. Your emotions fear, agony, apprehension, and confusion WANT to serve you, but they are unsure because they tried and it did not work out this time. But what about next time, will they be ignored or valued. That is the inner conflict. Do these parts of you need to re-evaluate themselves and what they will do?

Van tell me what you think. Am I close? Is there any eliminate to truth in what I'm driving at?

Tao, is this what Van should be getting? Is the inner conflict unrelated to the event (in this case the ex) but actually related to the confusion of the inner emotions and their role?

I think they've been there the entire time but we as humans are afraid to be fearful so we hide them or ignore them. We try to avoid them and cover them up when in fact they are there to serve us just as much as happiness and joy. Fear, Agony, Apprehension and confusion should not be shunned at all, but rather recognized for their contributions.


Chuffster, you have hit on something we all fail to understand, How we recognize and acknowledge our own feelings, and how to cope with them. That's the biggest part of life I think, not that we go through changes, birth, deaths, break ups, getting fired. But how we deal with them.

Tao's exercise is meant to bring that out in Van I think, not to talk for him, but from what I have been reading here.

Its an expansion of NC, letting the emotional dust settle, so you can make good decisions for YOURSELF, based on facts, and not just feelings.

Thanks, for checking in & you are right on. That's what I am trying to work on. Im still restless and almost every waking hour, I still think about this & her, even amongst my efforts to look inside. Wonder what she's doing, even she even gives a crap about me or feels the least bit guilty. I know this feels unproductive and almost keeps the pain alive, but I hope that these thoughts also help in some way. I keep trying to put myself in her shoes and still blown away how she used me & I allowed it. Doesn't make me happy in any way. Ive forcing myself to keep as busy as I can, even if its small things, but sometimes feel like I don't know what to do with myself. I have given so much of myself away, little by little that now Im kind of left feeling misdirected. Its been 17 days of NC & time is the only thing that helps that. Sometmes I just want to her her voice again, even though deep down I realize it was always an illusion. Pretty lame huh..

Thanks, for checking in & you are right on. thats what I am trying to work on. Im still restless and almost every waking hour, I still think about this & her, even amongst my efforts to look inside. Wonder what shes doing, even she even gives a crap about me or feels the least bit guilty.

Lets say she does. That gives you some kind of relief because you know she screwed up.

Lets say she does not. You have a quality of life you expect and she does not meet up to it. You deserve better then she can offer because she is void of emotions.


I know this feels unproductive and almost keeps the pain alive, but I hope that these thoughts also help in some way.

They do help. By keeping the pain alive your brain is telling you or redirecting you to stay away from her. You emotion called pain is serving you and working for you. At some point that emotions will realize it's not needed and move on, so accept it now and encourage the process along by recognizing you will not accept that kind of behavior again.


I keep trying to put myself in her shoes and still blown away how she used me & I allowed it. Doesnt make me happy in any way.

How about the way of education. You got one. Now you know what to look for in the future and what to avoid.


Ive forcing myself to keep as busy as I can, even if its small things, but sometimes feel like I dont know what to do with myself. I have given so much of myself away, little by little that now Im kinda left feeling misdirected. Its been 17 days of NC & time is the only thing that helps that. Sometmes I just wanna her her voice again, even though deep down I realize it was always an illusion. Pretty lame huh..

You know I wound up coming to this site 3 years ago because I was acting like Mr. Nice Guy wuss boy getting mixed signals from some girl. I can't thank her enough for the pain she gave me then because it causes so much clarity since. For years prior to her I had the nice guy problem, where I would start fine and then turn into Mr. Nice Guy, doing everything for a woman giving myself away. That mistake cost me with the girl but brought me so much eduation over the last few years and led me to other girlfriends and dates with woman because of stuff I've learned. My point is out something bad I got something more valuable that will last me longer.

What are you getting? Maybe it's still early for you to tell. But so far you've learned more about yourself from Tao then she was ever going to teach you. You've learned that she was was always selfish and you are can not correct that behavior so it's best YOU LET HER GO so she can practice that toxicity on someone else while you find a relationship that is more favorable to you, even if it's the one you are starting to have with yourself.

Thanks, Chuff.
That's really helps me to better understand some of these recurring thoughts & patterns. I realize that I don't need her grief. Time will help and like you say those emotions will fade, move on or become less frequent until asked back in again for another reason. This is all helping to let go. Sometimes it the little things that trigger those feelings. (places, history, curiosity, etc.. ) Im trying very hard to stay in touch with them when they emerge.

Tao, is this what Van should be getting? Is the inner conflict unrelated to the event (in this case the ex) but actually related to the confusion of the inner emotions and their role?

First, I am glad that you logged on and are doing OK, Van. We were getting concerned about you. Call us when you are going to be out late! (parental joke)

That's a good take, Chuff. You've understood a bunch. Let's tweak it a little, fine tune it.

The sentence I've highlighted in red is the core statement. We all see the world and everyone in it through our own projections. We don't see what and who are there, but instead, we make a model, a representation of all the world and we work with it. Our representation has a lot less to do with the outside reality than it has to do with our inside reality. Our conflicts are primarily with ourselves.

(Note: See Greg Brodsky's bolg entry for May at: Brodsky’s Better Being Blog (http://brodskygroup.com/blog). He and I studied NLP together.)

Our brains operate in a cacophony of competing interests, processes, wants, and needs. Nobody is in charge and we end up doing what we do for reasons that we don't understand. Instead, we rationalize our reasons after the fact, and then believe they are true causes of our behavior. But we don't know how motivation, emotion, and consciousness work.

I used to enjoy John Grinder, co-founder of NLP, circa 1974-5, when he would start his workshops with, “Everything I am about to tell you is a lie. But, it is a useful lie. As long as the concepts we work with are useful, we will take them seriously.”

Any model we make up or "discover" is a lie, a fabrication of our minds as they attempt to capture the truth. While they all fail—no one has the inside scoop on reality yet—some models turn out to be more useful lies than others ("Parts," for example, provide better processes and choices than do "spirits.") The parts model gets even more useful when we assume that each part is a whole entity, like a complete person inside of us with its own point of view, issues and concerns, purpose, abilities, and significantly, a job. I've never experienced a person who contacted a part that didn't have a job/task/purpose.

Each part's job is essential at some level, or we wouldn't dedicate part of our minds to it. Some take care of behaviors essential for survival, like breathing. Some enhance our lives, like the part that can ride a bicycle. Some come into being because of trauma, like the part that gives us social or existential anxiety around certain kinds of people. But the parts aren't the breathing, riding the bike, or feeling anxious themselves. They are the neural networks that fire to make us breathe, ride well, and feel anxious.

We can distinguish ourselves—our conscious selves, or conscious minds—from any part simply by envisioning its existence. In doing that, we make the functions of the parts available for reflection, evaluation, and innovation. Since this happens because we dialog and negotiate and make decisions, we need ways to communicate effectively. Visualizing parts that are little homunculi, we get a sensational way to communicate; we enter our unconscious minds and just talk with the rest of us. If that fails, we communicate by physical sensations, emotions, visual imagery, or involuntary movements.

As Van has been finding out, talking with the parts of our minds is intense, revealing, surprising, and enjoyable. The right conversation can dramatically change things. The key is to know and use the intention--method--outcome formula.

An example:

I was a very angry young man and didn't know it. In my 30s I got in touch with my anger and was appalled by how much damage it caused. So, I lied down on the floor, did ten minutes of breathing and calming myself, created a working state, and asked:

"Would the part of me that causes me to be angry be willing to communicate with me in consciousness at this time?" (The wording was very precise in those days.)

Silence. No discernible sensation. After 2-3 minutes:

"I understand that the part of me that causes me to be angry is working on my behalf, doing something that I need. I appreciate and value that part. But I don't understand its function or its purpose. Would that part of me give me some sense of what he does for me by making me so angry at people?

Silence. Stillness.

"What would it take to get that part to communicate with me?

Breathing and calming my impatience and frustration down. Silence. Ready to give up.

"Would you be willing to show me something of yourself? (No begging, "Please" is not advised when establishing contact) I would be grateful if you would show yourself.

Suddenly, I got a picture of a face filling a doorway, a ferocious face like a semi-human wart hog with dark, wrinkly skin, fiery eyes, fur, fangs, whiskers, and a terrifying gaze. The face was huge, and covered the whole doorway.

"Holey s**t!" I exclaimed, "You are terrifying!" Tell me what you do for me."

"I make you angry."

"Yes, you do. Thank you. Please tell me what yo do for me by making me angry."

"I get you to scare people."

"And what do you get for me by scaring people?"

"I keep this door closed."

"What do you do for me by keeping this door closed?"

"I keep you from getting closer to people."

"And what does it do for me to not get closer to people?"

"It keeps you from getting hurt." (Bingo! I can get behind that!)

"Thank you! I appreciate you doing the job of keeping me from getting hurt. How, specifically, do you carry out your mission?"

"By keeping this door closed."

"To where does this door lead?"

"It's the door to your heart."

The next steps had to do with explaining that I appreciated the protection but that the method had drawbacks, then negotiating the willingness to change the method, delegating the job of finding three ways to keep me from getting hurt to "the creative parts of my mind," each of which would be as effective as the current method, but without the downside, and letting the process run by itself.

There were other details, but over the hours, days, and weeks that followed that experience, I could feel my anger and fear and the very need for such fierce protection dissipate. I saw myself change in ways that surprised me and gave me, and everyone around me, joy.

Tao

Thanks Tao for digging deeper. And, sorry for dropping out, I needed a bit of a break to let some of this soak in.
This is all helping me to better understand what my feelings are there for. It is helping me take the baby steps in letting her go and looking at how I ignored many feelings although I knew that they were occurring as well as the ones now. How I have rationalized without really being in touch, for countless reasons. I started to really look at what I perceived as fulfillment and conditioned myself to believe that I was being completed in some way & how I justified such self-sacrifice. Not only with her, but in my past, and with other aspects of my life. All of this helps and I even go back to what you or someone said weeks ago, and that resonates in a clearer way. I have been resisting realization and the dust is starting to settle. As it does, its becoming easier to look at things more objectively and not through what I perceived to be real. Looking back on instances, times, etc.. Has helped me realize what those suppressed feelings were trying to tell me. In some way, I needed her to make me feel complete even though the reciprocation was in a way minimal. I let myself continue believing something that, in fact was quite different. I ignored myself & my feelings in doing this for many reasons. Rejection, fear of lonliness, selfishness and in a way helped her manipulate things by doing that. Thanks again. Im not going anywhere. More soon.

Thanks Tao for digging deeper. And, sorry for dropping out, I needed a bit of a break to let some of this soak in.

A good thing to do sometimes.



This is all helping me to better understand what my feelings are there for. It is helping me take the baby steps in letting her go and looking at how I ignored many feelings although I knew that they were occurring as well as the ones now. How I have rationalized without really being in touch, for countless reasons. I started to really look at what I perceived as fulfillment and conditioned myself to believe that I was being completed in some way & how I justified such self-sacrifice. Not only with her, but in my past, and with other aspects of my life. All of this helps and I even go back to what you or someone said weeks ago, and that resonates in a clearer way. I have been resisting realization and the dust is starting to settle. As it does, its becoming easier to look at things more objectively and not through what I perceived to be real. Looking back on instances, times, etc.. Has helped me realize what those suppressed feelings were trying to tell me. In some way, I needed her to make me feel complete even though the reciprocation was in a way minimal. I let myself continue believing something that, in fact was quite different. I ignored myself & my feelings in doing this for many reasons. Rejection, fear of lonliness, selfishness and in a way helped her manipulate things by doing that. Thanks again. Im not going anywhere. More soon.

Yeah, boye, you're unraveling some old myths. When you are ready, let us know what you have come to, arrived at, attained, realized, discovered, and otherwise grokked.

Tao

I will for sure. Thanks for being there. The realizations & methods in getting me to a clearer place are starting come together in a way. Every day, there is something that helps me get there. I understand what "The Work" is about, I am grateful that I have been working from the start of all this. I guess for some of us only hurt & despair can help break our consciousness. Van.

Soon after I signed on to AMHD. I listened and valued all of the help.

Sometimes without truly realizing what people were saying. Your thoughts have guided me & in doing so I myself did research and have written myself notes (as I do in developing creative concepts in my work) Helps to break my thought pattern & dig.

For the past couple weeks, I at times had 20 pieces of paper scattered around in hopes to get some clarity, ease the pain, or try & go to sleep feeling that I was making some headway or sense.

As the days have gone by, the notes change, some I put away & maybe pull back in. Whatever. They have become more focused (as the ones in my work that have led to positive outcomes)

Some were cruel, some demanding & some serious listing.

Through all of this my new journal has been sitting on the table or in my bag ready to start venting in. I haven't touched it, feeling unready, overloaded considering my individual notes.

I am now taking a look at writing my story. From beginning to now, every person involved. Im making a list. And it brings back a lot. Ive done that before with the Artists Way & such, but seem to only look when I was confronted with something undesirable. Denial, hey?

The list is still going & when Im ready to write it down I will.

Its funny, a week or so ago, I cobbed this illustration together of my ex. Pretty ugly one of a black widow. Every claw had something meaningful impaled, blood & all. I even took my favorite photo of her, when we first started & put it on the spiders head.

Gave me pleasure at the time. Then I put it away, feeling weird that I created that picture. Ive pulled it out a couple more times, as I have my other notes. Even started a list of her good traits & bad. I was amazed at how unbalanced my list was & this was not out of anger.

Then, I began to think..
Draw that picture & make that list of who you are now.
Then the picture & list of who you want to be & how that affects others.

That is going to be my next bit of work.

Thanks for listening.

Ive been making commitments to myself to be healthy & getting myself together & at times, mustering up the energy to do so. Ive failed at times.

I think about perception vs reality. Nice advertising concept to sell Rolling Stone back in the day.

But, what's missing is the connection. Awareness, recognition and its relation.

Like Tao said early in these posts was. At a point who will ask yourself "What am I doing"

A question we should be asking ourselves constantly, right from the moment we awake.

Yup, Intention, Method, Outcome.

I think about perception vs reality. Nice advertising concept to sell Rolling Stone back in the day.

But, whats missing is the connection. Awareness, recognition and its relation.

Like Tao said early in these posts was. At a point who will ask yourself "What am I doing"

A question we should be asking ourselves constantly, right from the moment we awake.

Yup, Intention, Method, Outcome.

In the end, there is only awareness. We notice, with appreciation, the marvels of what is, what we do, what we think, believe, fear, suffer over, intend. If we just pay attention...

Keep sorting and organizing, Vanheart. You are close to the next gate.

"Then, I began to think..
Draw that picture & make that list of who you are now.
Then the picture & list of who you want to be & how that affects others.

"That is gonna be my next bit of work."

There you will find the gate's key. Include in your desired state list what it will be like to be that person. Try it on like a coat. Feel it. See it from the inside. Enjoy consciously growing.

Tao

Thanks, Tao. I will try. Although she remains in my thoughts, and experience setbacks, I feel like I am making some progress.

Thanks, Tao. I will try. Although she remains in my thoughts, and experience setbacks, I feel like I am making some progress.

You ARE making progress. That is obvious from reading your posts from the beginning to now. I really have nothing to add, but do not discount your progress and do not feel like you are not making it because she still pops up in your brain. That's okay, but in the end you are the one who is stronger, smarter, and better and that has already come to the forefront. That is already seen by everybody and that includes her, as I state previously she knew she wasn't good enough with all her problems. She saw that, we see that, and you are starting to see that so accept that progress is being made.

Thanks, Chuff. I know you guys did. I know that Im doing the right things, but been obsessing in the meantime. Im not denying any of that & not bashed myself for my replays. Just when I feel like Im not moving forward, something inadvertanly helps. I guess that means Im listening & acting on it in some way. Whether she felt like she wasn't good enough deep down for me, in a way I already know. She doesn't feel those type of things, only frustration & restlessness, then removal. This happens whenever there is any conflict in her mind. She has done this before and will continue. Talk about obsessing. But, that helps too...

Thanks, Chuff. I know you guys did. I know that Im doing the right things, but been obsessing in the meantime. Im not denying any of that & not bashed myself for my replays. Just when I feel like Im not moving forward, something inadvertanly helps. I guess that means Im listening & acting on it in some way. Whether she felt like she wasnt good enough deep down for me, in a way I already know. She doesnt feel those type of things, only frustration & restlessness, then removal. This happens whenever there is any conflict in her mind. She has done this before and will continue. Talk about obsessing. But, that helps too....

Didja see the weather report for today? Sez it's an excellent day for letting go, just a little deeper... just a little more...

Yes it is. I want to.

Hey all, Saturday marks a month since this all came down, and 25 days of NC. Its funny, I feel like it was yesterday in some ways.

Ive been listening & not so much "working" on this, just letting it happen naturally. Being open to every thought, whether I feel like Im spinning my wheels or dwelling with frustration. Accepting everything. Not forcing it.

As Tao mentioned I am at the next gate & I can see the key sitting on my table. Been touching it, put it into the lock countless times. Its starting to slide in now. Im waiting to turn it.

My scattered notes have lately turned to some pretty nasty hateful ones towards her & that's good. Im starting to loosen my grasp on her or vis-versa. Whatever helps that particular moment, day or otherwise.

Lost a bit of weight & made myself a commitment to get healthy & ripped for myself, not anyone else.

Im still jotting down all of the people & things in my life so far, whenever they come into mind. That list is now making a stack. Sometime, I will expand upon every one in a journal and will hopefully will continue that for a long time.

Just wanted to say how appreciative I am of everyone here & how admirable it is to try & help someone that has felt similar pain. Not sure what course I would have take otherwise. I haven't cried in a couple weeks, but knowing that brings tears to my eyes. I thank you more than words can convey.

As Arnold says "I'll be back". Maybe even tomorrow.

Van

I think those nasty hateful notes are good for you actually. No need to hold it in and writing is a great way to get problems out. I'd keep doing that. Congratulations on the weight loss. That's another positive from a negative. Sometimes the worst part of the break up is not the break up but the sort of feeling lost like you stated you were. We've been there but while you feel lost know that we've been down the road before and know exactly how to what direction to go.

Hey Van,

So good to read your words...


Hey all, Saturday marks a month since this all came down, and 25 days of NC. Its funny, I feel like it was yesterday in some ways.

You've covered a lot of ground.



Ive been listening & not so much "working" on this, just letting it happen naturally. Being open to every thought, whether I feel like Im spinning my wheels or dwelling with frustration. Accepting everything. Not forcing it.

Your words tell me that you are letting your unconscious mind manage the task of integrating the healing and learning taking place in you. You are not trying to control it. Great! As that integration continues to deepen, you will experience how much you actually have grown because of the work you are doing.


As Tao mentioned I am at the next gate & I can see the key sitting on my table. Been touching it, put it into the lock countless times. Its starting to slide in now. Im waiting to turn it.
Take your time. Take all the time you need.


My scattered notes have lately turned to some pretty nasty hateful ones towards her & that's good. Im starting to loosen my grasp on her or vis-versa. Whatever helps that particular moment, day or otherwise.

There's no "correct" or "incorrect" emotion in this. Let your creative juices flow, dude.


Lost a bit of weight & made myself a commitment to get healthy & ripped for myself, not anyone else.
Enjoy those crunches.


Im still jotting down all of the people & things in my life so far, whenever they come into mind. That list is now making a stack. Sometime, I will expand upon every one in a journal and will hopefully will continue that for a long time.

Just wanted to say how appreciative I am of everyone here & how admirable it is to try & help someone that has felt similar pain. Not sure what course I would have take otherwise. I haven't cried in a couple weeks, but knowing that brings tears to my eyes. I thank you more than words can convey.

Noted.


As Arnold says "I'll be back". Maybe even tomorrow.

Van

Me, too.

Tao

While your talking to yourself, don't forget the getting out and seeing what's out there. Not romance but the interaction with some good people. Nothing like human contact to keep you from being isolated.

Thanks all.
Yep, Tal, Ive been getting out. But need to get out more.

Through these past few weeks, my work projects have been on hold & as a freelancer, Ive kind of been left to my own devices. Most of my time which Ive spent trying to heal. Ive been getting out to exercise, a few nights out here & there & such but haven't truly been able to focus on work much. Since I moved to Vancouver, Ive met a couple who have become really good & true friends.

They invited me along with their parents to a weekend cottage out of town & accepted as I needed to get out of dodge & knew it is always cool with them.

Ive had the last remanence of special stuff from the past 5 yrs. Stuffed full in a manilla envelope. Photos, cards, love notes that she used to hide & other trinkets. I guess waiting for the right time to let it go. I know we would have a beach fire one night & thought that burning those may help letting go.

As I grabbed my bag & headed out the door, I felt weird about that & simply took the bundle & chucked it in the dumpster before I got into my car. It didn't feel good or empowering at all. I just did it.

We were having a great time & went out to this restaurant on the beach. Great meal etc.. My pals & I were out on the patio after & were asking me about AMHD & if I was still engaged. I started to tell them how invaluable its been & started to talk about the methods that were helping me. I broke down & started sobbing like a little girl right on the patio. It was so unexpected.

We went back, had some drinks, etc.. Then went to bed. I had the worst nightmares Ive had since the breakup. The last one really hurt, yet I woke up & told myself to think about it & get on with it.

The whole day, I was super fragile, could barely hold my s***t in, and even though we were busy with stuff I was holding back the tears. Had some some blubbering sessions with friend's wife. She has been very kind & understanding through this, as they were both friends with my ex.

All I kept thinking about was how my ex is fine & Im a basket case. Wondering if she replaced me & who she was screwing, or going after now. I feel like I'd been erased, with a couple phone calls an a blink of an eye, and boy is she glad now. Like I was some thorn in her side that was so easily removed.

Even on the way home, I had a hard time pushing the tears back & Im back feeling pretty much the same way.

I feel like its been pretty clear for all of you to see the negatives of all of this & I too have understood that & have been objective & clear. Makes me feel like an idiot & wish I could just slap myself in the face & say c'mon, don't be a wuss, move on. Not sure why I broke down so hard. I haven't felt this frail in a couple weeks. It sucks big time.

Don't stop the tears dude, you can't, don't try. It sucks, I agree. A relationship ending is like a death in the family, and like most funerals, you can expect to cry from your grief, its natural, its human.

Good for you for getting out for the weekend. You mentioned that you talked about us at dinner, just curious you told them I said "hi?"


I feel like its been pretty clear for all of you to see the negatives of all of this & I too have understood that & have been objective & clear. Makes me feel like an idiot & wish I could just slap myself in the face & say c'mon, dont be a wuss, move on. Not sure why I broke down so hard. I havent felt this frail in a couple weeks. It sucks big time.

I will admit to you all, that yes, I have cried over losing a girl. You are not alone in being a guy that has cried over a chick. If it works to get the anger and pain out then I say go for it.

Having said that, I'm going to disagree with your most recent self description. You gave of yourself for 5 years. You gave your love, time, loyalty, companionship, money, friendship, and a piece of your life. To call that being a wuss belittles what you gave because you are far from it.

On the other hand, we have established the other party here took everything she could get and really never gave much back. Not because she couldn't, but because she really had no idea how. You broke down in public, yet she's been broke her whole life. She wishes she could cry once and make her issues go away. Instead she carries it around and can't relate to you or anybody else on an emotional level. Just what she can get from them at the moment, but no real compassion. Talk about frail. Her emotional state is frail. Her self respect, or lack there of always sucks. You are dealing with and emotional loss, and she deals with a lifetime of never even having emotional understanding. You are hardly a wuss.

...All I kept thinking about was how my ex is fine & Im a basket case. Wondering if she replaced me & who she was screwing, or going after now. I feel like I'd been erased, with a couple phone calls an a blink of an eye, and boy is she glad now. Like I was some thorn in her side that was so easily removed.

Even on the way home, I had a hard time pushing the tears back & Im back feeling pretty much the same way.

I feel like its been pretty clear for all of you to see the negatives of all of this & I too have understood that & have been objective & clear. Makes me feel like an idiot & wish I could just slap myself in the face & say c'mon, dont be a wuss, move on. Not sure why I broke down so hard. I havent felt this frail in a couple weeks. It sucks big time.

Accept it. Let it be. Your mutual friends inadvertently triggered a replay of the program you had been running. Remember that I told you that you would relapse? Well, this is it.

It's called an anchor, and it's very common, used in every beer commercial and political speech. The mechanics are interesting but you can learn about them later. Right now the thing to do is recover as quickly and completely as you can, get back into working out, get about your business, and move to the next step. If part of you still need to weep, you might as well get it all out now.

Meanwhile, the stories you tell yourself about her, and you, and what she's thinking, and what it all means, are add-ons, unnecessary projections that pile onto you extra meaning that attacks you. This doesn't have to happen; it's just another program.

Forgive yourself quickly. No judgments. No self-assessments. Just get back on the path.

Tao

Thanks everyone.
I guess that relapse came pretty unexpected.
I will try & get back on course. I guess those add-ons are entirely my own doing. Hope I can stop that from distracting me or at least hitting me that hard.

Thanks everyone.
I guess that relapse came pretty unexpected.
I will try & get back on course. I guess those add-ons are entirely my own doing. Hope I can stop that from distracting me or at least hitting me that hard.

Pretty much every strong emotional state has anchors (markers that recall the state) associated with it. Some random guy with a mustache similar to your former high school gym teacher's mustache can make you feel oddly uncomfortable, like you are about to be told to take a lap. Women who have something similar to your mother—hair, perfume, gait, etc.—can regress part of you for a moment. In this relapse you just had, it could have been simply the presence of these friends, the context, and the mention of you-know-who.

You can "delete" anchors, or at least neutralize them. Learning how is a long conversation, though.

If you are curious, I did a Google search on "NLP Anchors" and came up with a lot of data. Most sites are selling NLP, so they focus on the use of anchoring as a tool; but anchors exist everywhere. Some sites:

NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) Techniques - Anchoring (http://www.whitedovebooks.co.uk/nlp/anchoring.htm)
17 Examples of Classic And Everyday NLP Anchors | Attraction Mind Map (http://www.attractionmindmap.com/17-examples-of-classic-and-everyday-nlp-anchors)

You can also learn about a good process by Googling "NLP submodalities."

More important right now, are the add-ons. Telling yourself stories about the meaning of any of this, especially stories that judge you, condemn you or diminish you, is a mistake that you can interrupt as soon as it begins. For ideas on this, read any of Byron Katie's books, Google "pattern interruption" and watch a few episodes of Caesar Milan, The Dog Whisperer. Why the dog guy? Ask me again after watching.

The relapses will diminish on intensity and frequency, much more quickly if you exercise, get back to work, and get laid. As you recover from this relapse, the road will get easier.

tao

Thanks, Tao.
Much better today.

I will certainly look into those sources.

Hey Tao,

Came across some great webcasts from Byron Katie.

OMG, this was amazing...

Her method of self inquiry and the 4 questions really clicked.
Im starting to understand what Ive been creating as belief vs. what is truly factual.

This is what has been causing me so much pain, sorrow & frustration. Its what has been keeping me clinging to this breakup. All of thoughts perceived realities that Ive been conjuring up in my head and not letting go of.

Those inquiries are a direct route to speaking with your parts in a way. Pretty incredible stuff.

Thanks for turning me on to that. Looking forward to putting it into action when my mind starts to play tricks on me.

Hey Tao,

Came across some great webcasts from Byron Katie.

OMG, this was amazing...

Her method of self inquiry and the 4 questions really clicked.
Im starting to understand what Ive been creating as belief vs. what is truly factual.

This is what has been causing me so much pain, sorrow & frustration. Its what has been keeping me clinging to this breakup. all of thoughts perceived realities that Ive been conjuring up in my head and not letting go of.

Those inquiries are a direct route to speaking with your parts in a way. Pretty incredible stuff.

Thanks for turning me on to that. Looking forward to putting it into action when my mind starts to play tricks on me.

Cool. Send me the links, please. I love those four questions!

Thanks,

Tao

Here it goes:

Byron Katie on Oprah's Soul Series Webcast - Oprah.com (http://www.oprah.com/article/spirit/inspiration/pkgoprahssoulserieswebcast/20080811_oaf_oss_bkatie)

Tao, I've heard about NLP but never really tried it. Besides those links have you ever stuided it or have any book recommendations on the subject that are good?

Tao, I've heard about NLP but never really tried it. Besides those links have you ever stuided it or have any book recomendations on the subject that are good?

Hey Chuff,

I had the good fortune to study with the founders in the mid 70s. It has proven useful in my personal and professional life for years and working with a lot of people. It enabled me to understand myself and others in practical ways, without dogma, just providing tools. It also helped me make fundamental changes in myself that I desperately needed to change.

NLP has a dark side and can be misused. I find that true for any powerful system that has insight into how people work and methods for influencing them. It also has many self-correcting components.

I have not followed its developmental path very closely, so there must be plenty people, web sites, blogs, books, workshops, and various media products out there that I don't know. I recommend that you start with a good scouring of the web. Read everything you find. Let me know if you come across anything questionable and I'll offer an opinion. Also:

Watch the videos on Darren Brown on uTube. The guy uses straight up NLP plus some real genius that will absolutely blow your mind. Tony Robbins was also an NLPer and based much of his method on it. You might like his work.

Googlize: Milton H. Erickson, John Grinder, Richard Bandler, Robert Dilts, Leslie Cameron Bandler, Steve Gilligan, Steve Andreas, Connirae Andreas, & Robert McDonald.

There are surely books galore, but most of what you want to read should be on the web. I'll look around and see if something pops up that you should read.

Also read about Milton Erickson: Amazon.com: milton h erickson (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_9?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=milton+h+erickson&sprefix=milton+h+)

Read:

Uncommon Therapy
My Voice Will Go With You

Erickson was the primary model for a big part of NLP. He was the greatest medical hypnotist of all time, I feel.

That should get you some pleasure and insight. I hope you enjoy the exploration.

Tao

Hey guys.
Its been a month of NC.

Not sure if I can even communicate what I feel. Been marking this on my calendar & now not sure even why at this point.

The past few days have been ones of understanding & confusion still. Doesn't seem like a day goes by when I don't think about this girl. I almost wish that would subside.

I go from complete understanding to missing, wondering, hatred, to feelings of deception. And still I wake up with her on my mind.

I even wrote some things to help me break free and realize. Like "Shes gone, She doesnt want you, Shes moved on." Then to ones like "If you truly feel love for her her, then wish her well in her life without you."

Always looks & sounds good on paper, but I guess it all helps in some way.

Among my efforts to work hard, exercise, keep busy, socialize, etc.. I seem to end up feeling so lonely at times & ask myself why?

Why is this destructive girl having such an effect on me still? Is it me or the time/conditioning, etc..

It seems like sometimes I can't stop. As much as I try. I guess time is my only salvation. I can't wait until I don't feel anything towards her.

Its harder than I thought.

hey guys.
Its been a month of NC.

Not sure if I can even communicate what I feel. Been marking this on my calendar & now not sure even why at this point.

The past few days have been ones of understanding & confusion still. Doesn't seem like a day goes by when I don't think about this girl. I almost wish that would subside.


Congrats on the month of NC.

Whoa! Talk about the "almost" part. What stops you from totally wishing these thoughts would subside? Delve into this.



I go from complete understanding to missing, wondering, hatred, to feelings of deception. And still I wake up with her on my mind.

I even wrote some things to help me break free and realize. Like "Shes gone, She doesnt want you, Shes moved on." Then to ones like "If you truly feel love for her her, then wish her well in her life without you."

Always looks & sounds good on paper, but I guess it all helps in some way.


Whatever works. But writing about her won't help now as much as writing about yourself. You are still in a pattern and the de-energizing of that pattern still is somewhere within your power. Maybe not your conscious mind's sphere of power, but available to the Greater You, which includes your unconscious mind. As tough as it is, and because it is tough, remembering that will make it easier for you to plow through this until you are on the other side of it.

While you're not done yet, you are learning. You know that logical arguments don't work, that you can relapse and recover reasonably well, that the path to freeing your heart is hard, and that the work you have done so far hasn't reached the place in you from which you can move out of this loop and on to your next steps. But you also have a sense that you own this process, so you can find the resources you need to let go and move on.



Among my efforts to work hard, exercise, keep busy, socialize, etc.. I seem to end up feeling so lonely at times & ask myself why?


This is the human condition! You and 3/4 of the world's population feel lonely because of the alienation our society promotes in us. People write books about that in every culture and era.

So don't mix existential loneliness—or the simple need we all have for touch, to be together with someone—with a longing for her. She is your obsession for the moment, not the answer to your loneliness.



Why is this destructive girl having such an effect on me still? Is it me or the time/conditioning, etc..


That's the magic question, or near it. Right now, the question that comes to mind is What does she represent to you? You haven't gotten deep enough within yourself to hit the release button on the meaning of all this. What, exactly, does she mean to you? To what story does she belong? Take some time with this.


It seems like sometimes I can't stop. As much as I try. I guess time is my only salvation. I can't wait until I don't feel anything towards her.

Its harder than I thought.

Yep, so far it's been a tough experience. Time is your ally and every day that passes gives you greater distance from 30 days ago. You might feel eager to be done, but you determine how you let go. You might be fully aware that getting completely through it means that you get to heal and grow from the experience. Be equally clear that whatever residue of suffering you carry away, you get to keep.

So, take stock of what you are learning about yourself, how you operate, and what choices you can make next. No conclusions or judgments about what this turns you into or says about what you are. You're a little wiser than you were a month ago and your ego isn't so much in the way, so be patient and kind. Take a few deep breaths, relax, and get back to observing yourself, having dialog with yourself, and getting deeper within yourself until you completely assimilate this whole experience.

Tao

Fact It was a five year relationship

Fact- Its been a month since the break up

Of course you still have feelings and that's so normal as you have just gotten over the shock and are in the mourning period of this break up. You are using your coping skills to get you through this. Your doing pretty good for a normal human.

Talaniman calculation- depending on how proactive you are with your healing, factoring in the maturity factor and the support factor (Hehehe) you will feel a lot better in the coming months. Just remember it's a process, and that takes time.

You may never get over her completely, but the point is to be able to handle it and be happy with yourself and rebuild a life that you enjoy without her.

Actually your off to a good start and are on a good path.

Thanks guys.
Gives me a lot to work on
I will continue with further and more focused self-dialogue

I would think, just me, that being more proactive physically with getting out among people and having a great time would give you a good healthy balance, in the healing process.

Thanks, I've been doing that too.

Hi,
Through my efforts to answer those questions of what she means to me, I looked back at something that I pulled from the web a few weeks ago.

Here it is, speaks volumes of my relationship:

You won't believe me now, but maybe you will in the future; the fact is, you do not love her and you never did love her. You cannot love anyone right now because you do not love yourself and hold yourself in very low esteem. You hurt because you had a very sick symbiotic relationship going on; you were with an abusive out of control woman and you had a sick, needy emotional dependency on her, nothing more; you don't even really like her, you needed her to punish you for whatever happened to you in your past that created this loss of self-esteem and your need to be punished by someone. Whatever she said and led you to believe you believed because you wanted to believe it, not because it had any validity...you were the proverbial drowning man clutching at a straw, only in this case your straw was a razor blade; the more you fought to hold on, the more you got hurt.
You really have to get hold of yourself and force yourself to join a new club or organization whose members have the same interests you do or volunteer your time somewhere and feel good about yourself again.
The minutiae of why she said this or that really doesn't matter because anything she ever said to you was lies in order to get you to do whatever she wanted you to do at the time; she cares nothing for you and you care nothing for her, the two of you are deeply emotionally scarred, only the difference is, you can be cured and find your happiness.
Please understand, you are never going to have any closure from this because there is nothing to have closure from. You haven't lost anything because you never had anything to begin with; all of it was lies and abuse.
There are no good times with her and she will never change, she will be the same and nothing you can do or say will change that, so since she won't change, it is you who must and get on with your life and seek out new people and open yourself up to new experiences. You must stop clinging to your dream of her, because it is not real...it is an illusion, as was the entire relationship. Until you are a whole, independent person you really won't be able to have a reciprocal satisfying relationsip with anyone; you must not think of a partner as something you need to complete yourself, a partner should be someone who complements your life, but you are a whole separate human being who can survive on his own, which is what you have to do now until you find a viable partner.

Hi,
Through my efforts to answer those questions of what she means to me, I looked back at something that I pulled from the web a few weeks ago.

(Great description)

Your movement continues. If you're up for reading, take a look at Amazon.com: Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life: How to Finally, Really Grow Up: James Hollis: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Meaning-Second-Half-Life/dp/1592402070/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246162559&sr=8-1)

Hollis' insight into relationships and self-understanding is sensational.

Tao

"It matters if you just don't give up."
--Stephen Hawking

Thanks Tao.
I picked that up & started reading it.

After 34 days of NC, woke up this a.m. to an email from my ex.

"Hi, how are you? I am not sure where you are at or if you want to speak with me but I would really love to talk and see how you are doing.
I'm ok.

Let me know if I can call and when a good time would be. I hope you are doing well, enjoying summer and that your big project is going awesome.

hope to talk to you soon.
much love"

Why after a month is she doing this? In one way I feel remotely satisfied that she somewhat cares? Or maybe not, maybe she just fishing for something. Wish I knew...

Typical ex feeling guilty email. Don't fall for it. She will not tell you anything that you want to hear. She just wants to make sure you are "OK" with everything that happened to make herself feel better.

I fell into that trap a while back with my ex. I caved in and talked to her so we could "catch up". Did I gain anything from that... no, just old memories and feeling that I helped her get over her guilt and move on by being there to talk. Did she tell me anything that made me feel better about what happened between us? No. Was she trying to get back with me because things fell through with her current BF? No.

So yeah, while I was stuck on her, I still acted like a sick puppy and helped her. I should have stuck to NC and helped myself and let her wallow in her guilt.

Don't reply... just forge ahead.

Talaniman Rule-Once I disappear from someones life, they have to work their a$$ off to even find me.

Thanks Tao.
I picked that up & started reading it.

After 34 days of NC, woke up this a.m. to an email from my ex.

"Hi, how are you? I am not sure where you are at or if you want to speak with me but I would really love to talk and see how you are doing.
I'm ok.

Let me know if I can call and when a good time would be. I hope you are doing well, enjoying summer and that your big project is going awesome.

hope to talk to you soon.
much love"

Why after a month is she doing this? In one way I feel remotely satisfied that she somewhat cares? Or maybe not, maybe she just fishing for something. Wish I knew...

Ahhhh, the pleasures of NC!

Here's a great chance to let go and be done, or to pick it up again and do the dance with her. She's phishing, looking to find a hook. But now, the locus of control is in you.

So, it all belongs to you. Take your time. Slow down and listen inside. Treat yourself with a wholesome love. Whatever you do, there are people here who stand with you.

Tao

Thanks all,

I have no intention of contacting her.
At first, in some sick way, this put my wonder to rest if she was thinking about me or if she would ever try & contact me.

Its been a month to the day since she tried last via text.

This in fact through me for a loop & although put that wondering to rest, in a way confused me a bit more. A minor setback, I suppose.

What got me kind of pissed is how she stated "Im ok" & "Hope you are enjoying the summer" Yet Ive been pretty paralyzed for most of these weeks.

I wonder if she's trying to see if Im OK to validate her decision, or feels guilty or what. Maybe she thinks that its been enough time that we can simply chat about our day. To make her feel warm & fuzzy that she is a strong, couragous and caring person. (just the opposite) Or maybe there's no one to listen to her the way I used to. Ie: Listen to all of the amazing things she's got on the go... Or "I can't believe he hasn't tried to contact me, he loves me so much & was so broken up...

I don't know & probably shouldn't even wonder why. I guess I'm not there yet to not give a crap. It kind of effs with my head.

Another day.

Thanks all,

I have no intention of contacting her.
At first, in some sick way, this put my wonder to rest if she was thinking about me or if she would ever try & contact me.

Its been a month to the day since she tried last via text.

This in fact through me for a loop & although put that wondering to rest, in a way confused me a bit more. A minor setback, I suppose.

What got me kinda pissed is how she stated "Im ok" & "Hope you are enjoying the summer" Yet Ive been pretty paralyzed for most of these weeks.

I wonder if shes trying to see if Im ok to validate her decision, or feels guilty or what. Maybe she thinks that its been enough time that we can simply chat about our day. to make her feel warm & fuzzy that she is a strong, couragous and caring person. (just the opposite) Or maybe theres no one to listen to her the way I used to. ie: Listen to all of the amazing things shes got on the go... Or "I can't believe he hasnt tried to contact me, he loves me so much & was so broken up...

I dont know & probably shouldnt even wonder why. I guess im not there yet to not give a crap. It kinda effs with my head.

Another day.

One day at a time, Dude. Just keep letting go. Keep a watch out for the parts of you that are already in a new place. They've lost interest in her, and are creating your next steps. You might find yourself wondering what they're up to.

Tao

Be strong man, she's just trying to make it easier for herself. She knows what she did, and she knows it was cold and heartless... that's why she's emailing you: To see if she can get any sympathy words out of you, so she can feel better and sleep better.

You do not owe her anything, she left you to deal with a devastating breakup, now you leave her with the recoil effects. Screw her, you've come this far... don't let her F with your mind, keep moving forward.


Shed that skin buddy, we're here for you man.

Thanks.
I will.
Can't help deciphering that message, though.

"Im ok"
Does that mean?

thanks.
i will.
cant help deciphering that message, though.

"Im ok"
does that mean?

Knock yourself out. Parse the language; interpret every nuance; look for secret messages in the text. Then, well you know what to do...

BTW, "I'm OK" means that she's OK.

Tao

Yep, it just shows you who she is really thinking about in that message... herself.

You're making the right choice by not responding.

Try not to analyze her every word. You'll get a headache.

ouch & thanks, I'm once again in denial.

I feel stupid for trying to read anything into this. Even when I looked at it from the outside, I still wanted to analyze it. Grasping for any assemblence of true feelings from her. What a joke. Maybe this is what I've been waiting for in a way.

I guess she's been OK since before the breakup. Now I'm pissed she even tried to suck me back in. makes me feel like crap, but can't stop thinking about it today.

was I first thought was a speed bump turned into a mountain.

I guess until I remove her from the equation, I won't be free.

I go from being strong to weak. Lame.

ouch & thanks, i'm once again in denial.

i feel stupid for trying to read anything into this. even when i looked at it from the outside, i still wanted to analyze it. grasping for any assemblence of true feelings from her. what a joke. maybe this is what ive been waiting for in a way.

i guess shes been ok since before the breakup. now im pissed she even tried to suck me back in. makes me feel like crap, but can't stop thinking about it today.

was i first thought was a speed bump turned into a mountain.

i guess until i remove her from the equation, i wont be free.

i go from being strong to weak. lame.

Self-judgment costs extra. What are you learning? When you just stay neutral and look, what do you see in yourself? Aside from being an attention magnet, what are you getting from continuing his?

Tao

Everyone has their ups ad downs when going through this process. You're not alone. I've been doing well over the past 9 months. I still have times of weakness and sadness. The amount of time that I spent feeling this way has gone from days to a minute every so often. I still think about things, but not nearly has much as I did even 2 months ago.

It takes time. Just give yourself the time you need to heal and get all of the painful emotions out. You will get better and become happy.

i feel stupid i go from being strong to weak. lame.

That's not stupidity. That's love. That's what billions of women want from a man and you gave yours to one who screwed it up. She's the stupid one. Do not start talking to yourself like that because you, everybody here, and I know it's not true so don't lie to yourself.


for trying to read anything into this. even when i looked at it from the outside, i still wanted to analyze it. grasping for any assemblence of true feelings from her. what a joke. maybe this is what ive been waiting for in a way.

Sure you were grasping. Tal, Tao, AJ, JMW, and myself have all been there grasping for any hope but speaking from somebody who's grasped and gone back I can tell you, you are better off continuing the journey to peace without her. Look at all she's caused, and for no real reason other then her own selfishness.

In you last post you wrote about about grasping for straws that were razor blades. Is she worth the pain of the grasp? I don't think she is and I think you know it on a logical level but you emotions are still raw and clouding you some. But you wouldn't let her slice you with razor blades so you don't and shouldn't slice yourself by going backwards.


i guess shes been ok since before the breakup. now im pissed she even tried to suck me back in. makes me feel like crap, but can't stop thinking about it today.

I have to be honest, I disagree with you. Feel like crap? You should be feeling pretty good about yourself. It wasn't you that caved in. It wasn't you that sent a one sided message. It wasn't you begging to find out how she's doing. No sir. She's the one who got a hard lesson in who was stronger between you two, and the answer was obviously you. Don't feel like crap for winning this game with her, because in this game of who's stronger and who won't break contact you whipping her sorry a$$.


was i first thought was a speed bump turned into a mountain.

Maybe but since she contacted you and not vice versa she's under the water in the river at the bottom of the mountain, so she's farther down then you are.


i guess until i remove her from the equation, i wont be free.

You are free now. You may still have memories of her, but you freedom is available to you now.



i go from being strong to weak. lame.

You have this all backwards. She's the weak one, contacting you because she knows she screwed up and she wants to make herself feel better. You are the strong one resisting the drug of love who's looking it and responding to her and saying I can fight on.

Lame no. Not even close. Going from strong to weak? More like going from strong to stronger while she goes from weak to weaker desperately calling you while drowns in the river as you hike up that mountain.

Van, please start seeing yourself for how I, and if I may speak for the other posters, everyone else start seeing you. Strong as hell, determined, committed, smart, and tough as sh!t if the face of emotional turmoil and still going. This entire thread from the OP to now has been nothing but a strong man getting stronger, but you have to start seeing it because it's there and if you just look.

Thanks chuff for the king words & support.
I appreciate it very much & it helps.

Feeling pretty numb & wiped out today. Didn't realize that email would affect me so much.

I guess sometimes I forget and deny how self absorbed she is, and continues to be whether its towards me or anyone else.

But know that's in the past & I have jumped over another hurdle.

Everyday is different & I'm trying the best I can.

Read what chuff said. Take those words to heart, because they are true. You feel week only because of what happened. Keep your head up bro! You're a lot stronger than you think. Hell, you're a lot strong than me. I caved and broke NC...you didn't and I applaud you for that.

Give yourself time. It part of the grieving and healing process. You are dealing with a heavy loss. It's only natural to feel this way. Stay positive and keep moving toward your future. Try and think about all of the things you can do for yourself now that you are FREE!! You don't need her to accomplish anything in your life. You can put all of your time, resources, and energy to things that you want, and not have to split it up for anyone else (if you don't want to).

Cheers, jmw.

I'm just doing what I think is right. Mostly from everyone's help here.
Don't know what I would do otherwise.

Trying to separate my mind from my heart.

Thanks so much these past couple days...

Not a problem. That's why we are here, to help others that have to go through this BS.

Here is a thread that I think you should read through... just to get you in the right frame of mind to move forward.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/joys-being-single-335663.html

Thanks,

I've read that one. Funny.

I just wrote down all of the reasons I thought from her perpsective of why she emailed me. Had 30 or so scenarios down. Had to laugh at a few...

Then summed them up & looked at byron katie's 4 questions.

Could I truly believe any was true/had proof? Nope.

Does it matter? Nope.

What was REAL is that she emailed me looking for a green light to call me. Am I going to give her that? Nope.

Am I learning to move on? Yup.

You are in the right frame of mind!

When you start feeling weak and wanting to break NC, just come back to this thread and re-read what is said here, and vent. It will get you back to thinking positively and back to what you know you need to do. Plus you will have all of us picking you back up and brushing you off.

I know I will be back to vent.
Isn't going to break NC though...

aint gonna break NC though...

Strong getting stronger.

Hey,
Its been a couple weeks.
Ive been keeping busy, exercising, socializing, etc.. Had some nice times.

Also, have had some teary & low breakdowns and sadness, feelings of rejection and such.
But have been plowing.

What's been hard lately is that I am still thinking about her & this daily. Its in a way way been maddening. I go from feeling sick to hate, wonder & still writing notes to help myself. Everyday has been different & try & resolve my thoughts before I sleep. In whatever way I feel helps. Im trying so hard.

I get so mad now that I am dwelling on this. I want it to stop. Sometimes I yell at myself to stop. I wish there was some magic pill I could take to remove her from my thoughts.

I know that Im being strong & doing the right things, but don't in any way feel like myself. This sucks. NC is one of the hardest things Ive had to do.

She tried to call me yesterday on my cell, no message though. I know she's coming into town this next week or next. And I know I shouldn't even care if that's why.

Need a bit of advice on how to help myself to stop, or at least stop dwelling. Even I know know that my thoughts of her are just memories, and not really about her physically. I awake to this & my nights are filled with these thoughts. I want more than anything to move on.

Thanks for listening once again.
Van

BTW,

Read this in the "Open letters to my ex" post. Has helped the past few days.

I know Ive written dozens in my mind, some on paper & never sent. Still do in my mind.

This should be a sticky in itself:

Dear ex,

You may wonder why I am writing to you now. There are things that I deserve to say to you regardless of whether you will hear them or not.

You treated me very badly indeed and when you walked away you showed no concern, remorse or guilt for the way that you behaved.

I think you're probably the most immature, selfish, cowardly and irresponsible person I have ever had the misfortune to meet.

You lied to me, you showed no respect for me and worst of all you kicked me hard when I was down.

I say these things to you now with no desire for reconcilliation, as I can think of nothing I would like less.

I am simply exercising the right to express myself which you denied me when we broke up.

You have showed yourself in a very bad light indeed and I now understand fully why you don't like yourself very much.

You are cold and callous and you played games with someone who showed you nothing other than love and respect.

The only mistakes I made during our relationship were to treat you like an adult and place my trust in you.

You are, to put it simply, a horrible person.

I wish you luck with the denial and fabrication that is your life.

Ironically, if I were to send this letter, I would be giving you the gift of justification.

You are unworthy of my attention and I have no desire to give you anything more, so it will remain unsent.

I would guess that this speaks to everyone that has loved & been dumped.

... Had some nice times... had some teary & low breakdowns and sadness, feelings of rejection ... been plowing.

... still thinking about her & this daily. ...Im trying so hard...I want it to stop.... doing the right things, but dont ... feel like myself....

... how to help myself to stop... I want more than anything to move on.


It's good to hear from you, Van, even though I am sorry to learn that your struggle continues.

As I see it, you are always at a decision point: you can go out or you can go in. If you conclude that the source of your anguish is outside of yourself, specifically her, then denigrating her as best you can might be the solution. The open letter does this pretty well.

If you conclude instead that your pain will subside and maybe disappear altogether if you go deeper within yourself, find the source and transform it, then further inner work awaits you. In this case, you might also decide that stomping her in your mind is a feel-good-now-behavior, but an unproductive distraction from the real work in the long run.

You might also take inventory of what you are doing for yourself: What's working? What's not working? What's missing?

Tao

Your plan of healing needs tweaking, to get through those alone moments. How are you sleeping?

Thanks.
I will try & take a harder look at what's working & not. I agree, bashing her seems to only help briefly.

Tal, no not great sleeps. Usually awake really early, up for an hour or so, then crash again.

Its important for good sleep to balance your day, your eating habits and activities. Not only will this help the body functioning well in a few key areas, but makes for better sleep cycles. That helps the brain, and keeps the energy level up. QUALITY sleep cycles are as essential as eating.

Paying attention to those small things add up.

Im trying.

Thanks.
I will try & take a harder look at whats working & not. I agree, bashing her seems to only help briefly.

tal, no not great sleeps. usually awake really early, up for an hour or so, then crash again.

Do all three categories: working, not working, missing. The third is the most generative, and you need to generate something that you haven't identified yet: the remaining steps to freedom from this suffering, steps you can take and be through with this.

You did some good work during the process, had some revealing dialog, got in touch with your inner self a bit. I get the impression that as soon as you started feeling a little better and could socialize, you stopped that work. Is that correct?

If so, I understand. Without ongoing guidance and raw determination to build the required skills for finishing the job—being completely free from your pattern of suffering in this particular way— it's hard to continue the work. Resolution seems far away.

But you have all that you need to solve this, to be done with this, within you. If you indeed "want more than anything to move on," you might be motivated to get back into your innards and process some more, which I recommend. You will find levels. Reach the requisite level and the conversation you will have with yourself will be pivotal.


Tao

Thanks Tao,

I wouldn't say I stopped, but maybe haven't been as dilligent and forgetting some key things. I will try & work harder.

Thanks Tao,

I wouldnt say I stopped, but maybe havent been as dilligent and forgetting some key things. I will try & work harder.

Don't try to work harder! Don't even go in that direction.

Instead, do the inventory on those three questions. Let that give you insight. Once you have some of that, I suggest a new approach. This is because I doubt you will remember what to do with the original procedure or know how to take it to its conclusion.

This time, do some prep work—breathing, etc— and BE the part of you that hurts (Yes, I know that this is difficult, but it's a source of energy right now.) and let your desire to be out of pain draw you into the work. Just let go to it. Let it pull you into a dialog.

Then you can alternately be both the part that hurts and the conscious mind, you as you know yourself to be. Take turns and speak in both voices. You can even switch chairs and take on each persona. Have fun with it. Experiment and explore role playing. Take on the role of every part that talks to you. You want to continue what is working, stop what is not working, and invent, import (learn), or imagine what is missing suddenly being there.

The goal is the same as before: Find out what you are getting from this drawn out pattern, and, if you agree that you need it, find other ways to get it, ways that don't include suffering over this relationship any longer.

Tao

Thanks, tao,

I will do the inventory and listen.

I often tell people, its not what life throws at you, its how you cope with it. We all get knocked down, but it's the ones who keep getting up, that succeed.

Tao is right, an honest self inventory is what will give you a path to where you want to be.

I have no doubt you can do this, and be successful.

Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I will let you know what I discover...

I get so mad now that I am dwelling on this. I want it to stop. Sometimes I yell at myself to stop. I wish there was some magic pill I could take to remove her from my thoughts.



Van, I have been here. I have yelled at myself for giving thoughts to the ex and I have yelled at myself for past behaviors that seem so ridicules once the moment has passed. Sometimes it can feel like temporary insanity when you keep having thoughts about someone who wronged you and all you ever wanted was the best for them. But that's just it, if you want to give your best to someone and they are unwilling or incapable of being at your level of giving to them then you don't deserve them.

I can't give you a magic pill other then to tell you that when those thoughts pop up I constantly say "There will be something good to come from this, find it." If you tell your brain something good will come of this then your brain will start seeking out answers to it. Sometimes loss really isn't loss when you look back later and realize what you gained from the experience. Sometimes you don't see what your getting in the moment but later you realize you got more from a bad situation then you would have ever got if things stayed the same.

Thanks Chuff, you have it pegged.

As a freelancer, I spend a lot of time alone & its been challenging not to dwell especially at night.

Went to the beach today & did a lot of soul searching & thought that I have lived these past 2 months without her & have done what Ive been able to do to heal. I didn't jump off that bridge as I felt a month ago & realize that time & good thoughts are on my side. I just need to let go of her and I feel like Im still grasping at times. Not sure what for exactly.

Once again your statement of turning a negative thought around helps.

You are right, sometimes when you are in that moment & thoughts are bouncing around it snowballs & becomes hard to stay clear & focused. Hopefully I can learn to better control these feelings when these thoughts pop-up. I don't wish to dwell anymore on her or this breakup. I don't want to feel pain anymore.

I appreciate yours and everyone's advice

You shouldn't sweat it man, this is just a setback you were going through. I felt like I was struggling to breathe, like I was already dead inside. It will get a lot easier in time. I felt exactly like you and have went (and still going) through everything you are. It's been nearly 3 months since I started NC and things have gotten a LOT better for me. Be patient my friend, you will shed that skin and find yourself refreshed.

Thanks aj.

I am a very patient person. Im way better than a few weeks ago. Im just taking each day as a learning experience, as tough as it may be. I can't wait until I feel like myself again & am able to finally close the door on this. Sometimes I feel like so much time has already passed & Ive been wasting it dwelling on someone I know doesn't deserve me. Weird.

Van, you've made so much progress in the short time you've come here, if you look at some of your first posts to now you can see the difference. Give yourself some more time and some more growth and your going to be even stronger and better. Getting back to your base is actually great for you because it will get you in touch with yourself again and not the person who is kind of "floating" at times. Don't forget to give yourself credit, you've gone through hell and you deserve credit for finding the road out and taking it. Some people never do or some people wait hoping for something to get better when it never will. You took action and are still taking it. You've done a great job, got some new friends, gained some new insight, learned about the true you, got life lessons and grown as a individual. You really have gained from this experience, but you have to frame it correctly and recognize it for your brain to accept it.

Chuff, I appreciate that very much.

I feel that Ive been strong, see it, but I think don't believe it for some reason. Maybe because I still experience setbacks. Maybe I am waiting for full recory to realize that.

I was writing the days of NC on my calendar & stopped at 49, (I was actually sick of being reminded of it) but wrote down the 60 day mark with a note that said "How strong are you?"

I can honestly say that without the help here on my thread, Im not sure what I would have done. Really shows the importance of NC and the unselfish and caring advice exhibited here.

Thanks for this.

Chuff, i appreciate that very much.

Happy to point out the truth.


I feel that Ive been strong, see it, but I think dont believe it for some reason. Maybe because I still experience setbacks. Maybe I am waiting for full recory to realize that.

I can relate. I don't know if I can explain it. But I know when I've been in your spot I could see with some clarity and realize how much better I was and what I was gaining but still not accept it. I think that is the part of you that that is still grasping wanting her to realize she made a mistake and come back. When you can finally put that part away or talk some sense into it or just give it more time you can move forward.

I used to get mad at myself for always thinking about an ex and I just started talking to myself when I was angry and asked, "Is this really helping?" "Why do the thoughts of her continue to come up?" What am I gaining by continuing to think of her?" I mean I actually have a conversation with my brain and start throwing questions back looking for answers. I think that can help you. Having said that, you were in a 5 year relationship and you are only a couple of months removed, you have to give yourself some time and accept this is a sudden and shocking life change. Nothing wrong with that, but don't let it bother you that the thoughts are still there as this is a realitively fresh and quite honestly a new experience.


I was writing the days of NC on my calendar & stopped at 49, (I was actually sick of being reminded of it) but wrote down the 60 day mark with a note that said "How strong are you?"

You didn't call her. You didn't send an email. You saw her silence and dealt it right back harder then she could even when she needed to steal some of your strength with contact to appease her own selfish needs.

How strong are you? Stronger then her.


I can honestly say that without the help here on my thread, Im not sure what I would have done. Really shows the importance of NC and the unselfish and caring advice exhibited here.

Thanks for this.

I wish I had a forum like this myself when I was younger. I've learned so much from this board. Honestly, I've learned so much from this thread. It isn't just us giving you, it's all of us getting something.

Thanks,

Ive asked myself the very same questions when I think of her. You're right about talking some sense to yourself. As tao said "what am I doing?" or "what am I gaining from this"

Sometimes when you talk I think that you and others are right inside my head.
Im so glad that Im not going through this alone.

Van

Thanks,

Ive asked myself the very same questions when I think of her. Youre right about talking some sense to yourself. As tao said "what am I doing?" or "what am I gaining from this"

Sometimes when you talk I think that you and others are right inside my head.
Im so glad that Im not going through this alone.

van

We're all learning. It's gratifying.

OMG
When I read this, I got choked up.

Then realized that how gratifying this whole experience has been for me and can be. Not only here.

Pretty revealing. Tao, you have such a way.

When I posted again, felt weird & needy & honestly wondered if you guys could help me more. Didn't want to rely on you. Felt weak. But once again...

OMG
When I read this, I got choked up.

Then realized that how gratifying this whole experience has been for me and can be. Not only here.

Pretty revealing. Tao, you have such a way.

When I posted again, felt weird & needy & honestly wondered if you guys could help me more. Didnt want to rely on you. Felt weak. But once again....

I have friends who I might not see for 5-10 years at a time; but when we connect long-distance, we are simply there for each other. These are powerful, competent people who recognize areas in themselves that need outside support, intervention, sometimes interruption, emotional nourishment, catalysis and more. I feel that way myself, and welcome their contributions to my well being.

To rely on such friends is not the same as being needy. Needy usually means that a person will suck up all the free energy other people have to give and do nothing with it. Needy people need to get energy and attention, but "getting" is where they stop. Getting satisfies them for a moment, assuages the wounded beast within and puts it to sleep. They have no idea about how to receive from another and to grow what they received into something greater, then to bring it back to the originator as shared nourishment.

Without this sharing, we are like the guys who love the "chase" of getting a girl, the idea of "conquest," but who fail to show up for any kind of sustained relationship. In that pattern, our "relationship" is with a story, a metaphor of conquest embedded in our minds. Having a real relationship with another human being, as you know well, involves risk and loss and personal transformation; we know that when we dare to love another, we will be emptied out before Life fills us up again. It takes guts.

That's why it is important that you keep communicating with us, letting us know your status and process until your problem is as solved as it is going to get. We might not get you squeaky clean, but we will stand by you for as long as it takes for you to be no longer suffering unnecessarily. Then, we each look in the mirror and, seeing our resemblance to you, we grow.

Tao

Thanks.
I will be back.

Just got this email from my ex...

"Hi, i am coming to Vancouver next week and would really love to see you. I get there thursday next week and leave tuesday.
No matter what i write feels wrong... but i hope you will see me, i hope we can talk.
love"

I won't respond or see her, but I can't help this making me feel awful.
Not sure what she wants at this point.

I suppose if she wanted to say something heartfelt or whatever, she would have done so already. I can't be her friend anymore.

Just when I think its getting easier, it feels harder.

Great step forward! A lot of people would have caved at that e-mail. You are standing your ground, be proud of yourself here!

Thanks, but not feeling too proud right now.
Feel sick to my stomach & shaking.

I hate that these emails effect my so much.

Sucks.

Just got this email from my ex...

"Hi, i am coming to Vancouver next week and would really love to see you. I get there thursday next week and leave tuesday.
No matter what i write feels wrong... but i hope you will see me, i hope we can talk.
love"




Did you catch what I caught. Read it again then focus on the red part that I conviently highlighted. Someone's feeling guilty. She's not looking to get back together but she is looking for you to make her feel not guilty by confirming you will meet with her, or at the very least respond to the email.

The best thing you can say to her is silence.

Also, can't you block her emails?


I wont respond or see her, but I can't help this making me feel awful. Not sure what she wants at this point.


You have no reason to feel awful for anything. If anything you should feel pride that you are not as weak as she is, and you are stronger then she gave you credit for.

What she wants is to know that you will say "it's okay that you dumped me." Not in those words, but she's looking to give you some of her guilt for the pain caused.


I suppose if she wanted to say something heartfelt or whatever, she would have done so already. I can't be her friend anymore.

She gave up the right a long time ago. Exercise your right to hold her to it.


Just when I think its getting easier, it feels harder.

Or just when you thought you had the strength you would need, she challenged you and you became even stronger.

I hate that these emails effect my so much.

sucks.

Can you block them?

Can you change you email address?

I think my server provider can.
Don't want to change my email though

Just got this email from my ex...
"Hi, i am coming to Vancouver next week and would really love to see you. I get there thursday next week and leave tuesday. No matter what i write feels wrong... but i hope you will see me, i hope we can talk.
love"

I wont respond or see her, but I can't help this making me feel awful.
Not sure what she wants at this point.

I suppose if she wanted to say something heartfelt or whatever, she would have done so already. I can't be her friend anymore.

Just when I think its getting easier, it feels harder.

Rome's got it right. Way to go!

She wants to make herself feel better by explaining something to you. Whatever she says is for her. She would love for you to participate, to applaud her courage and forthrightness, to help her cleanse her soul.

She represents an episode in your life, one that is almost over and will be over when those bad feelings don't last for more than a few moments if at all. But, while they are there, why not study them and gain a little power from them? If you take this opportunity to study your feelings, each one you understand and accept can give you strength.

Stand your ground NC-wise. Breathe consciously. Discover more of your depth. You might find that you are a free man.

Tao

Im not sure even how to respond right now.

I guess this is yet another hurdle I need to jump over & look to the day when I can simply shrug it off.

Yep, I had a similar thing happen to me when I was 2 months into my NC. I was offered a job in California, kept it from a lot of people so my ex wouldn't find out. She found out somehow and sent me a text. I still remember it word for word "Hey I know we haven't talked in awhile but I heard you're going to California. That's awesome! I wish you the best of luck and maybe I will come out there a visit"

Was just thinking how this is purely at her convenience. She's here for a wedding

She dumped me over the phone and after 5yrs didn't have the decency or gave a crap to even do it in person, even though she went to LA the week before.

Sh!! ty

My ex broke up with me by sending a text to my cousin telling her she was going to end it, and then texted me telling me it was over

Nice one.

Van, I can bet your heart jumped right out of your chest receiving that email. But as others have pointed out, its not about you and her, its all about her.

Know she wants to clear her own conscious, and satisfy her own curiosity.

Be unavailable, and heed your own feelings for a change. It doesn't matter what she does or why, but what you do that counts. Make a plan to be busy that weekend.

Yeah, I guess you could say, your blowing her off.


What she wants is to know that you will say "it's okay that you dumped me." Not in those words, but she's looking to give you some of her guilt for the pain caused.

She gave up the right a long time ago. Exercise your right to hold her to it.

Or just when you thought you had the strength you would need, she challenged you and you became even stronger.



Talaniman agrees- Just because its true to the max! She knows she can pop in and pop out, and not look back!


Make a plan.

Yup it certainly did.

And I bet getting off the plane here and taking a taxi right by my place won't be comfortable for her. The first time she isn't coming here for me.

But you're right, Im going to blow her off.

Thanks to everyone yesterday.

Just wanted to raise a glass to celebrate 2mo. Of NC today.

Wanted to tell you that a couple days before my ex emailed me, I get one from a photographer friend of ours that lives where she does, not really saying anything.

Then today, I get a call from another mutual friend on my VM saying that he's in town & wants to hang out.

These are really her friends & I find the whole thing a bit weird.

Can't tell what's sincere, makes me suspicious. Regardless, NC for anyone that is in her life.

Thanks again guys.

Thanks to everyone yesterday.

Just wanted to raise a glass to celebrate 2mo. of NC today.

Wanted to tell you that a couple days before my ex emailed me, I get one from a photographer friend of ours that lives where she does, not really saying anything.

Then today, I get a call from another mutual friend on my VM saying that hes in town & wants to hang out.

These are really her friends & I find the whole thing a bit weird.

Can't tell whats sincere, makes me suspicious. Regardless, NC for anyone that is in her life.

Thanks again guys.

Stay on it.

Thanks to everyone yesterday.

Just wanted to raise a glass to celebrate 2mo. of NC today.


I'm toasting you with a Dr. Pepper right now!


Wanted to tell you that a couple days before my ex emailed me, I get one from a photographer friend of ours that lives where she does, not really saying anything.

Then today, I get a call from another mutual friend on my VM saying that hes in town & wants to hang out.

These are really her friends & I find the whole thing a bit weird.

Can't tell whats sincere, makes me suspicious. Regardless, NC for anyone that is in her life.

Thanks again guys.

I find it suspicious as well. I also think that you are starting to see the value of NC. She didn't just skate away after 5 years without some guilt or loss. She is fishing and using her friends as bait to get that answer that what she did was okay. She is seeking something to fill some answer she has. You aren't seeking out answers from her, but she is from you. You are showing her you are stronger then her and stronger then she ever gave you credit for. You are showing her you do not need her. You are showing her that she is not in control of this situation. The theme here is you are showing her, not the other way around. I'm toasting you for this as well.

Toasting you with a one of a kind, God only knows what it really is, smoothie that my 7 year old old just made for me. It's kind of purple, and chunky. But, good for you. Go forth and find a deserving mate.

Thanks guys, appreciate all of that

Hey,
Been feeling anxiety & a heavy heart as my ex is here.
The universe has rewarded me with a project wed due mon, so its been keeping me busy. But I can't help wondering.

Then, I just get a text from her:
Hi, I am wondering if you want to meet for a walk or coffee on sunday afternoon? I would really love to see you. I hope you will, amy

I still won't respond, but makes me nervous and anxious for some reason...

I know I shouldn't think this but, I wonder what she thinks when I don't respond to any of her communications...

She misses you, but don't want to be with you. If you are OK with NOT getting together and just want to be friend, then it is OK. ELSE, I recommend you to stay away and not respond.

Been feeling anxiety & a heavy heart as my ex is here.

You ex is a visitor but that Vancouver is YOUR hometown. She's the visitor, so well I understand your feelings don't forget she's on your turf not the other way around.



The universe has rewarded me with a project wed due mon, so its been keeping me busy. but I can't help wondering.

Good stuff.



Then, I just get a text from her:
Hi, I am wondering if you want to meet for a walk or coffee on sunday afternoon? I would really love to see you. I hope you will, amy

I still wont respond, but makes me nervous and anxious for some reason...

Boy she just won't quit. Remember that means YOU are winning. The opposite of love is not hate, but actually indifference. The more you avoid her, the more you ignore her, the more you are indifferent the more she needs to know why. Look if you told her to F off as I have been known to tell a few ex's they know they have control over you. It may be hate but they control an emotion in you. But to be indifferent means she has no control over you and furthermore it makes her realize she misjudged your strength.


I know I shouldnt think this but, I wonder what she thinks when I dont respond to any of her communications...

She thinks, "Why won't he give me attention, I thought he'd be begging to see me, and now I can't even get a text back." Subconsciously she can't understand why what she's doing isn't working since it's always worked in the past. She's thinking you are strong and you have strength she never knew existed, "why didn't I notice this before, was I wrong about him, I have a made a mistake."

The answer is yes, and the confirmation is your continued silence. You are winning Van and you are proving to her that you are one tough dude. I hope more importantly you are proving it to yourself, because a life gut check like you've been through should be appreciated and celebrated.

Okay, Vancouver is home to Joe Sakic, so you better not give up your home turf or his!

My ex told one of my friends this about me ignoring her "All I wanted to do was see how he was doing and if he was still mad at me. It's really kind of childish to continuing ignoring me when we spent 2 and 1/2 years with each other."

My response to my friend "yeah, we did spend 2 and half years together, and after that time you would think I would have deserved more respect than getting an effin text message to my cousin telling her she was ending it with me"

My ex told one of my friends this about me ignoring her "All I wanted to do was see how he was doing and if he was still mad at me. It's really kind of childish to continuing ignoring me when we spent 2 and 1/2 years with each other."



I love how she whines about you not talking to her and then calls you childish on top of it as though that would bring about a conversation.

He retired, huh? Im sure you know that the Canucks blow it every year.

Anyway, I know you guys are right & its another selfish attempt.

I guess, even with all Ive learning about her, there's still feelings in some way that's keeping me from really letting go. Maybe its just the physicality that she is a person & still "out there" And Im a kind person.

Hard to describe...

... theres still feelings in some way thats keeping me from really letting go. Maybe its just the physicality that she is a person & still "out there" And Im a kind person.

hard to describe...

Dude, where did all that parts work go? You did some nice process in yourself in the heat of things, and got closer to the part(s) still hanging on. It might have been hard, but recall the feeling that you had when things opened up for you. Would you rather feel anxiety or that amazing sense of getting closer to wholeness? Am I mistaken? Did you feel that or not?

Her presence and her efforts provide you with an opportunity to serve the whole of your life. Don't p*ss it away by letting some vague discomfort work its way through you without awakening your resourcefulness. We're not dealing with Kryptonite here. Take charge and ride this wave.

You don't have to change anything on the outside. You've got a project due Monday that will keep you busy, but not all of you engages in that. While you are working on outer art, let some inner art happen.

Ask. Listen. Relax. Let your inner self reveal more of itself to you. It's a long life, and there will be other women. Heal this wound and you won't have to bring it to your next love.

Tao

Of course I feel it, and still digging deeper. I am continuing on that path.

That text just got me nerved up, that's all.

Chuff, yep! It made me want to pick the phone right up and give that girl a call. NOT!

Van, keep up with NC, it will avoid all of the confusion. If you want a play by play of how that conversation would go, feel free to ask and I'm sure myself or many others on here could tell you

I have an idea of how it would go.
Maybe she's rehearsed something after 2 mo.

Im sure it wouldn't be pretty.

But, give it a shot, if you weren't joking.

May help...

She will apologize, saying how much she didn't want to or mean to hurt you. She will ask for your forgiveness(to ease her own guilt) and then say how she misses the connection she had for you and hopes you two can be friends.

Before this talk takes place, it will be filled with awkward time filling half heart ed "how are you" and other meaningless questions about your life she really isn't concerned with.

Avoid this

Thanks, Chuff.

All of the stuff she already said, in so many words.

Don't mean to sound like a wuss or unaware, but its just the curiousities that come with NC & the situation, I guess. (denial again, hmmm... )

Like Tal, said: Know its just about curiosity and guilt.

Believe me, all of this helps and I know when she spilts, I will feel more empowerment and know that this hurdle may be what it takes to release my grasp on her & this.

Thanks, Chuff.

All of the stuff she already said, in so many words.

Dont mean to sound like a wuss or unaware, but its just the curiousities that come with NC & the situation, I guess. (denial again, hmmm...)

Like Tal, said: Know its just about curiosity and guilt.

Believe me, all of this helps and I know when she spilts, I will feel more empowerment and know that this hurdle may be what it takes to release my grasp on her & this.

Keep your senses on the alert for signs of that release process beginning. When it comes, and it will come, enjoy the ride!

You'll have earned it.

Tao

send her my way

So I take it school's still out for summer?

Great.

Is troll season almost over? :(

I think your seeing ANY contact with the ex will trigger some weird feelings and thoughts. Stay on the NC path. You have better things to do.

Thanks Tao,

My release button has been collecting dust. I even drew a crude picture of that button about a month ago. Then put it away as I do my notes every night.

Tal,
You're right, I have better things to do. Thanks for that.

Van

Hey,

Well just wanted to say that I truly understand and rejoice in the value of NC.

And, Tao, you're right, its not Kryptonite.

I kept busy, socialized and held my ground, even with bouts of anxiety, even until today. She leaves tomorrow and boy am I glad.

I leaped a big hurdle here, one that I knew I would have to jump. And feel good about it.

I know that her coming here and seeing her oldest friend, the one she traveled with and hated, felt jealous over (and always ed to me about) wasn't going to be a good trip for her.

Not to mention the fact the she also wanted wipe her hands of this breakup at the same time. This was, in her escapist way, her plan.
To let the dust settle, practice something then deliver it in person (not on a phone call) pegging me to a T.

Last night, I get a phone call from one of my very good friends here (I actually met him through her) saying that he ran into her at the beach. She was having that walk that she wanted, but once again with one of her superficial girlfriends that she only has time for when she pleases. Believe me, the friend is not one to give any advice.

At first was mortified, then asked if she asked about me or if he mentioned me (as I had asked him not to, if that ever took place) but, no mention of me. My friend is not one to get too deep, but what he said was, and I believe him is that "she looked upset"

One of the last times my ex & I spent time was at a dinner party I had with my friend, his girl and 2 other close friends. I bet she felt weird after that one, knowing that she knows he has my ear.

Even though Im venting, Im spending less and less time on this. Feels like a LONG time coming.

Thanks to every word here. It has all helped.

The path has gotten wider.

So, how's your art project going?. ;0)

Hey, that's a fine piece of inner work. Yeah Boye! You're a big step closer to freedom.

Keep the flow going in yourself and you'll find that your positive trend will accelerate.

Enjoy it all.

Tao

Its done as this recent episode is.

And thanks, This is becoming less of my "project" Thank god.

Im going to keep it going.

Its done as this recent episode is.

And thanks, This is becoming less of my "project" Thank god.

Im gonna keep it going.

Cool. If you haven't yet done so, this is a good time to read The Prophet, by Kahili Gibran.

Amazon.com: the prophet kahlil gibran (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_11?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=the+prophet+kahlil+gibran&sprefix=the+prophet)

You are growing as a result of all this! Your "project" is now you.

Tao

Yes,

I know him well from my youth. I kind of forgot about him. Thanks.
Been reading a lot of some lost and neglected ones. Classics, Biographies and eastern stuff.

That's a great idea,
Van

I don't recall if I have recommended it to you, but there's a lot in A General Theory of Love:

Amazon.com: a general theory of love lewis (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_0_24?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=a+general+theory+of+love+lewis&sprefix=A+General+Theory+of+Love)

Check it out and see if it's a genre that you like.

Tao

Thanks.
Ill check it out at the bookstore.

Been getting lost in other works lately, not so much in the self help, although I really liked the Hollis book, fascinating. I go back to some of those paragraphs...

Van

Thanks.
Ill check it out at the bookstore.

Been getting lost in other works lately, not so much in the self help, although I really liked the Hollis book, fascinating. I go back to some of those paragraphs...

van

What kind of works are you into? What draws you in so you get lost?

I'm currently reading How to Win a Cosmic War: God, Globalization, and the End of the War on Terror, by Reza Aslan and find it enlightening.

Some recommendations from my favorites, guaranteed to make you think differently:

Finite and Infinite Games, James P. Carse
The Gift: Imagination and the Erotic Life of Property, Lewis Hyde
A Brief History of Everything, Ken Wilber and Tony Schwartz (all Ken Wilber books)
When Nietzsche Wept, Irvin Yalom (all Yalom books, great psychological/philosophical novels)
The Power of Now, and A New Earth, Eckhart Tolle

Be well,

Tao

Thanks, tao.

Thanks, tao.

Oh, and one more: Pilgrimage by Zenna Henderson

Amazon.com: pilgrimage the book of the people (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_2_10?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=pilgrimage+the+book+of+the+people&sprefix=pilgrimage)

It's a great SciFi metaphor for the rejoining of parts.

I do hope you will answer my question about what you like to read.

Tao

Thanks,

Since the breakup Ive read:

Zen & Art of Motorcycle Maintanence
The John McEnroe Bio "You Cannot Be Serious"
The Mark E. Smith (Rock Singer) rants "Renegade"
On the Road
That Hollis book you recommended
Harold and Maude

Im pretty easy genre wise, if it connects with my interests.

Thanks,

Since the breakup Ive read:

Zen & Art of Motorcycle Maintanence
The John McEnroe Bio "You Cannot Be Serious"
The Mark E. Smith (Rock Singer) rants "Renegade"
On the Road
That Hollis book you recommended
Harold and Maude

Im pretty easy genre wise, if it connects with my interests.

Jack Kerouac!? Wow! Those were my Major Counter Culture days!

Enjoy it all.

Tao

Yeah, I wanted to re-read that one...

Hi guys,

Im trying hard to close the door on this & no longer wish to waste precious time.

I feel empowered, know all of her faults, etc.. I don't love her, don't want her back or want to see or talk to her, but still Im spending a lot of thoughts toward her.

Ive been trying to resolve this final grasp, just when I thought it was the final grasp, there's more.

I talk to rejection, comparison (thinking that everyone should be honest and loving) and habit. Ive been doing a lot of boiling since this.

Maybe it's a matter of time at this point again, its only been 2 mo. (feels like way more) but, I don't want to think about this anymore.

I thought about triggers and how I may picture something whenever I thought of this & her (not too different than my notes). That doesn't seem to do it.

I know I wrote that positive not a couple days ago, and I do still feel positive, but I guess what Im asking for is some thoughts at this stage.

I want to get rid of this BS for good.

And so you will I e it won't be painful but some memories I think will remain and why not if they re good ones?don't beat yourselfup one step at the time

Hi guys,

Im trying hard to close the door on this & no longer wish to waste precious time.

I feel empowered, know all of her faults, etc.. I dont love her, dont want her back or want to see or talk to her, but still Im spending a lot of thoughts toward her.

Ive been trying to resolve this final grasp, just when I thought it was the final grasp, theres more.

I talk to rejection, comparison (thinking that everyone should be honest and loving) and habit. Ive been doing a lot of boiling since this.

Maybe its a matter of time at this point again, its only been 2 mo., (feels like way more) but, I dont want to think about this anymore.

I thought about triggers and how I may picture something whenever I thought of this & her (not too different than my notes). That doesnt seem to do it.

I know I wrote that positive not a couple days ago, and I do still feel positive, but I guess what Im asking for is some thoughts at this stage.

I want to get rid of this BS for good.

There is still work going on in you, Van. Some parts of you are sorting and organizing old information related to women, relationship, and associated meaning. It may have nothing to do with her (although it may). If you deepen your state of mind when doing your dialogs—make it more pure and focused; spend more time inside your mind—you can access those parts that are busy working things out, and help them.

The dialogs, inner discovery, harmonizing parts, etc. never stop. The content and process change for the better. If you want help with the process, maybe we can set up a video chat via Skype or ooVoo.

Stay faithful to yourself. Stay on the path.


Tao

Thanks, I will try

At the risk of being an attention magnet, I wanted to post. Maybe help.

Been doing lots of soul searching with frustration and forwardness.

Its back to me. My goodness.

"How do you neglect good?" Yup. True housecleaning.

Ive been trying so hard to get rid of this. Getting tired, denying my own strength, dwelling even with realization. Posting here whenever something happens.. Not settling down.

I thought, nice. When was the last time you spent 2 plus mo. On yourself?
Way too long, I won't even tell you how long. No rushing now on this. (& I don't mean prolonging pain) Im doing all of the right things for me. And your words here were the catalyst, then and now. Thank you.

Now spend that time every day forever.

Been still writing notes and putting them out. Mostly the important ones remain.

I guess most of the broken hearts here have written letters in their head to your ex at different stages, and never sent.

I wrote one tonight to myself, in response...

My life is so much better. Thanks for that.
You were right with that first note, "I am amazing"...

I had mentioned that a friend of my ex's contacted me to hang out a couple weeks ago.

I come to find out that he goes back on the same plane of one of my dear friends. We all know each other. And she didn't mention me, but my ex found out through him that my friend was in town and texted her asking to get together. My friend said no & that she would be too busy as I asked her to way back if this ever happened.

Today my friend called to see if I could pick her up at the airport when she comes back & said that my ex texted her again after 5 days asking to call her because she was worried about me & wanted to know if I was OK.

She said she knew it was awkward, but can I call you for 2 minutes.

This gets me so angry how she is so sneaky, uncaring and desperate to find out that what she did was "ok"

I asked my friend to not respond.

How freaking lame. "This will take 2 minutes"...

Van, everything you just wrote is true. She's a sneaky, user and abuser trying to satisfy her own ego to "make it right" in her head. At this moment she is seeking answers from where ever she can get them, and she's desperate to do it. NC isn't just helping you get over her, it's messing with her head. She did not expect this. You played the one golden card and you played it brilliantly. The card is silence. The opposite of love is not hate but indifference. You are completely indifferent to her. We may see your having a few moments here and there, but she has no idea and it's driving her nuts. You are not only winning this game, you are absolutely killing her and it's just your indiffernce to her that is doing it. Obviously, I don't have to tell you to keep doing what your are doing. You are winning the battle with her and keeping her guessing even if it's unintentional.

Thanks, Chuff.

I am just so angry that she is trying to use my friends.
My closest ones, the ones that have been there and visa versa.

The ones that she never wanted to engage with and even was jealous of. She was jealous of me for having them for god's sake.

This really burns my a$$. I want to smash something.

Amazing what you can learn, when your not blinded by your own feelings.

This really burns my a$$. I want to smash something.
Anger is appropriate response to her actions, then you'll laugh when you think about how she didn't get her way.

You closed the door and didn't give her a key, and she doesn't like that very much, Hehehe!

And changed the lock I hope.

Yup.
I told my family too to blow her off if she tries them. Even though I think she too chicken chit to do so.

No one left. Especially after she ran into my other close friend at the beach here with no luck.

She's going to have to call Ghostbusters now...

So I pick my friend up today and she mentioned that my ex's friend she saw on the plane told her that my ex was working on her visa to move to L.A.

Just as I thought:
The Psychic to tell her she was a good person.
The "Secret" conference to get the courage and confidence.
The shag in L.A. to get her clutches into someone there.
Then getting rid of me.

Whatever to takes to get what she wants.

Nice plan, huh? Still hurts.

Now you know exactly the type of person she is. Be happy to be rid of this cancer, and now you can find someone you can be with and not have to worry about her intentions. Not some visa screw

I know. Just hearing that brings all of the hurt back though.
Makes me sick to my stomach.

So I pick my friend up today and she mentioned that my ex's friend she saw on the plane told her that my ex was working on her visa to move to L.A.

Just as I thought:
The Psychic to tell her she was a good person.
The "Secret" conference to get the courage and confidence.
The shag in L.A. to get her clutches into someone there.
Then getting rid of me.

Whatever to takes to get what she wants.

Nice plan, huh? Still hurts.

You also didn't mention the last part of this plan. The last part was let you go and walk away with her held high knowing she did the right thing and that you would try to beg her back. That part of this plan isn't working for her. Getting dumped does hurt. It drives a stake to your inner emotional core, there is no one denying that. But her plan did not and is not going like she planned. She may have played all that you described brilliantly without you seeing what was happening. But you played the last card and her plan has completely blown up in her face. She's desperate to make sure she did the right thing after the fact. She's tried everything to get in touch with you that she can and your indifference to her has caused all that you described to completely backfire on her. Everything has blown up in her face.

You can be hurt and you can come here and express that pain but the beauty of all this is, she has no idea what's going on. To her, you are indifferent to her, to her you have forgotten about her, to her you have moved on. This part of her plan is not what she expected. On top of that, it's something she never planned for and has no idea how to deal with it.

Still sucks sure. Nice plan... um not so much because it blew up in her face and you are winning her emotional game and turning it around on her.

Van do not ignore or belittle your achievements. When you feel down grasp these achievements and claim them as your own. You've earned them to keep and not to let go of or ignore.

I know and every hurdle brings me closer to letting go.

I agree with you, but don't think that she's worried about this plan anymore.
She will always find a way to put on a mask and deny and wonders why she feels anxiety and try yo fix it later.

I know she will do whatever it takes to fulfill her dillusional fantasies of celebrities and fame. Dressing Paris Hilton and screwing surfers, red carpet BS. Star-effer.

Once she's there, she did the right thing.

I was just another way.

I know and every hurdle brings me closer to letting go.

It's not the hurdles I'm worried about. It's the hey this great thing is staring me in the face and I'm ignoring it that has me concerned. She's the jumping hurdles well you sit on the sidelines.


I agree with you, but dont think that shes worried about this plan anymore.

I think your wrong. My proof is the last few pages of this thread and everything SHE tried to do to get in contact with you. Her plan sucked, and it blew up in her face and YOU are the one that caused that to happen. You deserve this credit and this victory so take it.



She will always find a way to put on a mask and deny and wonders why she feels anxiety and try yo fix it later.

Sure she will. Women lie. It's not what she says verbally that means anything. I could tell you I'm going to jump off the Empire State building but unless I actually take that action you can believe probably quite correctly that I'm not. She can say she doesn't care, she can say she's in control, she can say she just wants to talk for two minutes, she can whatever the hell she wants verbally.

But her actions speak something else. Her actions speak to someone that is desperate. Her actions speak to someone that needs reassurance. Her actions speak to someone that isn't comfortable with her decision. Her actions speak to someone that has deep emotional doubt. Her actions speak to someone that is second guessing herself. Her actions speak a different language and if she wants to deny anything, she's full of crap.

She does need a mask and she does have to hide behind a mask and deny her anxiety and failures to see this situation and to understand you and who she thought you were. Her mask is not only not your problem, it's your victory. You aren't hiding. You didn't claim to be anything you weren't. You didn't use her. All you did was stand your ground and show her you were stronger then she ever gave you credit for. Your damn right she's denying her ignorance and weakness. She has no choice. You have taken that choice from her and left her with the a void to feel. Let her lie to anybody she wants, her actions speak to all of us that she can't lie to herself that she screwed this up and she knows it.


I know she will do whatever it takes to fulfill her dillusional fantasies of celebrities and fame. Dressing Paris Hilton and screwing surfers, red carpet BS. Star-effer.

If her role model is Paris Hilton then... uh wow. My dog is smarter and better looking then Paris Hilton and not as slutty.



Once shes there, she did the right thing.

I was just another way.

You were a way that gave you an opportunity to love and lose and grow. Would you have grown without her loss? As you grow from this and you watch her deserperate actions who's getting something of value from this experience and who's hightailing it out of town her tail between her legs.

Thanks Chuff,

Just as your first post, you've cut right through. Thank you.

Im worried too about finally realizing what's been staring me in the face & not letting go. I have victory, Ive felt it. Worked hard from the get go.

When she escaped a few days after to see her family, when she knew I was hurt, that's when I went NC. She said that she wasn't going to go to that event for her niece weeks before. She used them for this.

My point is that I know that I am strong and steadfast and still have bouts with closure, just this confirmation today, hurt.

Those words about her actions and mask made me cry, and you're spot on. My actions have always been true.

I appreciate this very much.

Thanks Chuff,

Just as your first post, youve cut right through. Thank you.

Yeah I tend to cut right through.


Im worried too about finally realizing whats been staring me in the face & not letting go. I have victory, Ive felt it. Worked hard from the get go.

Because when it comes time to let go you will be out of your comfort zone. So even if you accept the victories in small dose use them to prop yourself up to be ready to jump to the next phase of your life where the most important person is you and use the victories as launching pads. It's still easy to no let go, but at some point when you are ready these victories will help you make the move to let go permanently.


When she escaped a few days after to see her family, when she knew I was hurt, thats when I went NC. She said that she wasnt gonna go to that event for her niece weeks before. She used them for this.

Yes she's a user. You don't have room in your life for users. Score another victory for you.


My point is that I know that I am strong and steadfast and still have bouts with closure, just this confirmation today, hurt.

That's cool and there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't give her the false sense of victory that belongs to you.


Those words about her actions and mask made me cry, and youre spot on. My actions have always been true.

I appreciate this very much.

No problem, and best of it was all true. Your actions speak to match your words. Sometimes the obvious is staring us in the face and we are so emotionally blinded we don't see it. It's there for you, I'm just pointing it out.

Let her hightail it out with her tail between her legs.
(Ewww... a tail, that's disgusting)

Sorry I got so close to that. Makes me wretch. She disguised it well between her legs. And more.

I saw that tail sometimes but still continued. Perverse.

Thanks,
Helps big time.

Vanheart, try to keep holding your head up high. I know this new news that you're hearing sucks and you're hurt, but reading all of your posts, just look at the strength you have shown and the progress you have made!! You have shown 10 fold that you are a much stronger person than you were before. Keep working on yourself, and I GUARANTEE you that the next best thing will drop in your lap (figuratively and literally) sooner than you think. GET OUT THERE, SHOW THOSE WOMEN WHO THE NEW VANHEART IS AND BLOW THEIR DRESSES UP! YOU CAN DO IT! Take care bud.

Thanks man,

Appreciate that. Its all about the process.

Its different for everyone. Im on my way, letting go is just around the corner.

Well, only you will know when you're ready. Just repaying the favor of the "swift kick in the rear." I'm pulling for you.

Me too.

Found out from my friend that my ex's text said.

" It would be really helpful to know if hes ok, he wont talk to me"

Then after no response

" Can i call you for 2 minutes"

Im sorry I keep dwelling on this, but all that serves me.

"Helpful", yeah right.

Like you said chuff, her plan was foiled.

Found out from my friend that my ex's text said.

" It would be really helpful to know if hes ok, he wont talk to me"

Then after no response

" Can i call you for 2 minutes"

Im sorry I keep dwelling on this, but all that serves me.

"Helpful", yeah right.

Like you said chuff, her plan was foiled.

This is so awesome. Your indifference to her has her jumping around to your friends who are indifferent to her as well. The game player has been out played. She has no idea what to do and has resorted to begging for 2 minutes from somebody else for nothing more then information about you. Van I hope you read this thread back in a year or so. I don't know if you appreciate this now like you will someday. You are in complete control and she's completely off her rocker.

Im not sure Im as stoked as you guys are either.
I know that NC has cut out hurtful and direct drama, and is helping me grow & heal faster, but..

As far as being happy that she's desperate to get closure for herself, I know that she will find a way to suppress those bouts. And justify things to herself no matter what. Turn it around, or rely on a new boyfriend or whatever to forget any guilt and put on another mask.

I honestly think she feels she did the right thing because she's selfish and nothing will stand in her way.

I not laughing at this yet. Just staying as strong as I can.

Chuff,

Was thinking a lot about your last few posts.

I don't think guilt has anything to do with this.
She's a narcissist through & through.

I think she just wanted one last bit of supply from me. Regardless of what it was & she didn't give a rat's a$$ if it was love, anger or telling her to screw off.

I think she wanted to see me face to face to say "Yup, he isnt my knight in shining amour" "I was right"

And the attempt to go after my friend was the same, just an acknowedgement of any selfish adoration along with some potential tid bits about me.

I honestly think that these people don't feel like most, just try and record and mirror on a superficial level to feel like they, are in a way normal.

Even though I know her traits and all of her recent actions, I still feel rejected and woke up today super depressed after a few bad dreams with her acting flippant and taunting.

I am still kicking myself for not seeing this, even with my progress & kicking myself. Ive said screw this so many times, but can't seem to let pass.

This is what sucks so bad for me now. I want to truly get on w/things.

Van-some days will still be not that great for a while.this person was in your life for five years.just let yourself feel what you feel WHEN you feel it.it will pass! :-)

Thanks, amicon.

That's what Ive been doing. To not ignore any thoughts.

Im letting it happen proactively.
Just have bouts with controlling them.

I can't wait for them to pass & become less frequent.

Hey all,

Its been a couple weeks since me last post and tomorrow marks 3 months of NC.

I, in a way am amazed its been that long. Sometimes its seems like yesterday that this happened and other times feels like its been a long road.

Ive had a few pretty depressing days since, questioning my worth and trying to understand and release the feelings of rejection and "how could she do this" sort of stuff.

My feelings have grown to utter sadness in a way. The loss. The amazement of going from love to nothingness in such a short time. How 5 years can end so abruptly. Hurts, but have been trying to dig deeper with my inner work and understanding.

I am so lucky to have a few very close friends who have been incredible & I have redirected my love towards them. Makes me weep at times in gratitude.

There's still not a day that goes by that I don't think of her and miss the closeness and security of having someone in my life.

Ive been fortunate to land a giant gig that will take me through October. Perfect timing actually.

My focus is to be the most kind and aware person that I can be and avoid drama at all costs, and keep learning.

I thank everyone that has given their unselfish advise here.
That has meant the world to me.

Van.

You have received 435 answers at last count!
That has to be a record :)
I bet at some point I must have said something!
So ,hay keep keeping in touch ,I know we all love updates :)

Hey all,

Its been a couple weeks since me last post and tomorrow marks 3 months of NC.

Then it marks about 3 months of friendship we've had and I have to tell you between you and Tao, I've learned so much from this thread. While, I realize that in no way helps you overcome the loss, I do want you to realize that growth is coming from this experience. I know that when you are on solid ground so to speak you will come out further ahead and it will be worth it to you.


I, in a way am amazed its been that long. Sometimes its seems like yesterday that this happened and other times feels like its been a long road.

Ive had a few pretty depressing days since, questioning my worth and trying to understand and release the feelings of rejection and "how could she do this" sort of stuff.

I understand all those questions. I've been there asking myself the same questions. But let me tell you something. Yourself worth isn't measured by your ex, your parents, your friends or any other person on this planet. Yourself worth is measured by your inner self, and I know this road sucks, but you are not alone. I've gone down that road. Sadly, more then once. In fact everybody on this board has gone down that road. The road has bumps and turns but it is not a dead end. Eventually the destination is inner peace and happiness.

Her decisions do not have one thing to do with yourself worth. If anything, yourself worth defined her as hers didn't live up to yours and she knew it so she bailed. Then, again because she knew it, she tried to contact you again and again, trying to sooth her own ego because her self worth is so low or non existent. Her self worth is so low she seeks attention from the public at large but ignores it from those around her. Don't you ever compare yourself worth with someone that doesn't have any.


My feelings have grown to utter sadness in a way. The loss. The amazement of going from love to nothingness in such a short time. How 5 years can end so abruptly. Hurts, but have been trying to dig deeper with my inner work and understanding.

I am so lucky to have a few very close friends who have been incredible & I have redirected my love towards them. Makes me weep at times in gratitude.

Theres still not a day that goes by that I dont think of her and miss the closeness and security of having someone in my life.

Ive been fortunate to land a giant gig that will take me through October. Perfect timing actually.

My focus is to be the most kind and aware person that I can be and avoid drama at all costs, and keep learning.

I thank everyone that has given their unselfish advise here.
That has meant the world to me.

Van.

You, know I thank you for posting, and continuing to share your story. It's very motivating and it's great to watch your journey and it will be really fulfilling to see it through to the end.

Here, here. And thanks Chuff for all of you words.
Every post you've given has been so incredibly helpful.

Here, here. and thanks Chuff for all of you words.
Every post youve given has been so incredibly helpful.

I appreciate that, us good guys have to stick together.

Ive had a few pretty depressing days since, questioning my worthand trying to understand and release the feelings of rejection and "how could she do this" sort of stuff.

Hey Van,

It might not always feel like it, but you have come a long way. It's good to hear from you.

OK, so everybody is going to bust you on the "self worth fallacy," and they should. You have the experience and personal resources to debug that one. In the end, the most sophisticated techniques and psychology will be less powerful than a personal decision to simply love yourself, no matter what. Do that. Treat yourself with respect. Always.

As for trying to understand and release those feelings of rejection, I believe that you can gain a lot through that endeavor. If you can observe and listen when those tapes run, you have a chance of releasing them, putting them in an archive somewhere in the recesses of your mind. But keep in mind the possibility that some day you will need to access them in order to feel the empathy to help another human being.

The "how could she do this" part still hasn't caught up with current reality. He hasn't assimilated the facts and could be the holdout who is still causing you to suffer. Spend some time with him.



My feelings have grown to utter sadness in a way. The loss. The amazement of going from love to nothingness in such a short time. How 5 years can end so abruptly. Hurts, but have been trying to dig deeper with my inner work and understanding.

Keep it up. With her, it's over. Done. With your inner life, your sadness and loss make room in you and deepen you for true, lifelong love, starting with a healthy sense of self love.



I am so lucky to have a few very close friends who have been incredible & I have redirected my love towards them. Makes me weep at times in gratitude.

There's still not a day that goes by that I don't think of her and miss the closeness and security of having someone in my life.

Two powerful statements here:

(1) Gratitude is the nectar of the gods, the force that heals, the catalyst and fuel of your (and my) liberation from illusion and the suffering it brings. Be grateful for your life.

Be with what is so that what is to be may become. - Soren Kierkegaard

(2) You need to love and be loved. You need to know a mate and be known by her. You need someone in your life, someone who chooses you, and whom you choose again and again and again. You haven't found that person yet. She's looking for you.


Ive been fortunate to land a giant gig that will take me through October. Perfect timing actually.

My focus is to be the most kind and aware person that I can be and avoid drama at all costs, and keep learning.
That's the right focus. Remember it.



I thank everyone that has given their unselfish advise here.
That has meant the world to me.

Van.

It means a lot to us, too. Keep posting updates. When you wake up one day soon with this episode in your life done, digested, and assimilated enough for you to forget it 99% of the time (It should never go away completely; it's learning) you might find yourself helping someone who needs your unique talents and perspectives. Share what you've got. You'll be glad that you did.

Enjoy the giant gig.

Tao

Thank you Tao.
I appreciate those thoughts.

Tao,

Thanks again especially for that Kierkegaard quote. You always know what stage I'm at. Nice one.

BTW, tried to get into that "General Theory of Love", but wasn't ready. Maybe later.

Been getting into the Carlos Casteneda stuff again. Wasn't ready when I read it at as a teenager.

Anyway, glad that you are here.

Hey,

That last push from everyone has brought me through that door I was so afraid to go through. Thanks.

Chuffs words about comparing myself to her & esteem & Tao's words about making room for goodness. "She hasnt found me yet." No wonder..

I still write notes and put them in front of me. One tonight: "Star-effers and boyfriends dont mix". I wish I had written that one a long time ago, and recognized it.

Another one was "Whos in your IN box?" My sense of humor.

At the risk of being sappy, thanks.

My movement is now forward completely. My love and its direction.

Having one of those days.

Running tapes.

Trying to be active and patient, but sometimes these recurrent thoughts become out of my control. Mostly because, I guess the past is catching up with reality & Im not letting go. Even though I know Im strong, moved on, and being grateful, helping others too. I know truly that Im a good man.

The pain is still there & I want nothing more to relieve that. I know that this is larger than this breakup, but, sometimes the rejection & all that comes with it, is overwhelming, all of the lies & deceit. The disrespect.

Sucks. A$$.

Letting myself be used.

OK,

She's here for another wedding today. Another one of her oldest gf's.

Plus Ive read a couple articles she's written. And boy if they aren't my words. Even my punk NYC accent & terms. She knew how smart I was, but also how stupid. Plus, I saw she's teaching classes. (another thing I pushed her to do, as a side project.) After all, why not let interns & students worship you?

Im venting, sorry.

Pissed, sad, hurt & weirded out. Among other things.

Vent on van-thats what we re here for-and days like you just described are normal as I think you know.betayals suck-having been lied to sucks-but you as a you said are a good man and nobody can take that away from you!wishing you a better day tomorrow.

Having one of those days.

Running tapes.

Trying to be active and patient, but sometimes these recurrent thoughts become out of my control. Mostly because, I guess the past is catching up with reality & Im not letting go. Even though I know Im strong, moved on, and being grateful, helping others too. I know truly that Im a good man.

The pain is still there & I want nothing more to relieve that. I know that this is larger than this breakup, but, sometimes the rejection & all that comes with it, is overwhelming, all of the lies & deceit. The disrespect.

Sucks. A$$.

A window is open and it's Opportunity Time: What does the past catching up with reality feel like? Where does that change muscle tightness in your body? When you let go, what happens? What sits just below the surface, trying to be recognized?

"The rejection & all that comes with it" are red herrings, distractions from experiencing realizations about yourself, your part in creating the drama from which you are recovering. You get big changes when you let the rest of the story come into consciousness, when you own your part it writing the script.

Casteneda would understand.

Tao

Believe me, u can get another better girlfriend!

Thanks everyone.

And Tao, I do & have taken a critical look at myself, my past relationships.

Know that I have been in denial. Allowed myself to ignore signs and have not stood up for my own needs.

Gave and gave until there's nothing left of who I originally started as.
Stemming a lot from my disconnected Mom & her own ignorance of reality. She doesn't even really know what I do. (after 25 years.)

In fact I didn't even tell her until a couple months after. She said "Why dont you call that last girl you went with"

Knowing all of this and working on it sometimes doesn't help fight those bouts of pain, but Im trying.

Makes me feel that these 5 years were a waste in a way, & how I got with the wrong person, for wrong reasons. Felt that selfishness all along.
The breakup was, in a way the icing on a bad cake. And Im still in denial that this was more of the same only the sum of the parts.

Those feelings of rejection are more ignorance on my part. And Im still perpetuating it.

I guess I get so upset that I gave and she took with no concern. My fault in a way. What gets me sometimes is the way she ended it and had zero respect after so long.

I guess people and their emotional skillsets are different.

Time and continued awareness are my salvation.
(and everyone here.)

Thanks,
Van

You know..

Was thinking that she didn't recognize sh$$t.
And, I didn't recognize eating it.

Thanks.

Thanks everyone.

And Tao, I do & have taken a critical look at myself, my past relationships.

Know that I have been in denial. Allowed myself to ignore signs and have not stood up for my own needs.

Gave and gave until there's nothing left of who I originally started as.

That's what happened. You shaped yourself according to the image you thought she wanted. You gave away your choices.

Stemming a lot from my disconnected Mom & her own ignorance of reality. She doesnt even really know what I do. (after 25 years.)

Consider the possibility that you did with her what you also did to survive emotionally growing up with your Mom. We all repeat our Mom pattern with the women we love. It doesn't work. It wasn't what she needed, primarily because she isn't your Mom.

In fact I didnt even tell her until a couple months after. She said "Why dont you call that last girl you went with"

Knowing all of this and working on it sometimes doesnt help fight those bouts of pain, but Im trying.


You will stop hurting when you have learned to just let it all be, your part in it as well as hers.

Makes me feel that these 5 years were a waste in a way, & how I got with the wrong person, for wrong reasons. Felt that selfishness all along.

You knew exactly what you were doing. It wasn't a waste, and she wasn't the wrong person. She just wasn't the lifelong person, your partner for life. The payoff (and the healing) come to you when you just attend to what you learned from this, and are just grateful.
.
The breakup was, in a way the icing on a bad cake. And Im still in denial that this was more of the same only the sum of the parts.

Those feelings of rejection are more ignorance on my part. And Im still perpetuating it.

You can stop when you are ready.

I guess I get so upset that I gave and she took with no concern. My fault in a way. What gets me sometimes is the way she ended it and had zero respect after so long.

There's no good way to end it. Even if she would have done everything "right" your heart would be broken. You would find reasons for feeling the way you do. It's not wrong. It just hurts.

I guess people and their emotional skillsets are different.

Time and continued awareness are my salvation.
(and everyone here.)

You got the last part right. Like the rest of us, awareness, and just awareness, opens the way through this to a state of wholeness.
Thanks,
Van

Practice presence.

tao

Thank you, Tao.
That helps very much.

I haven't let it be yet.

I guess the past hasn't truly caught up in my mind.

Thank you, Tao.
That helps very much.

I havent let it be yet.

I guess the past hasnt truly caught up in my mind.

What is your inclination at this point? Are you inclined to give it a rest, or reduce the charge you feel (pain), or dive deeper into your psyche and figure out how to resolve the underlying pattern, or do nothing? Or something else?

What, coming from within your own mind/body, will be the biggest relief?

Tao

That's a good one.

Would like to give it rest. Till way later.
Maybe its habit at this point. Sometimes hard to tell.

Would love to resolve this pattern. Im just scratching that, even though its been going on for a while.

I certainly don't wish do nothing. But that sounds completely spiritual, thanks.

I guess the best relief for me will come with changing. In however way.

Thanks for digging deeper with me.

My answer is that I want to dig deeper.

Your post has me swooning. You sound like the perfect lover.. I don't know why she would do that to you. How old is she, its probably a maturity issue. She needs to live her young single life, BUT I put my money on the fact that she will regret it in 10 years.

Thanks. I heard that after the fact from girls before. My problem.

She's 35. Age doesn't matter sometimes. Just how together you are.

Her karma, if it catches up, will find me waaay gone.

That doesn't really matter. She did the right thing.

My answer is that I wanna dig deeper.

Gutsy answer. I know that you know this means facing some demons.

You might be glad to also know that every demon is a potential ally. They are keepers of your secrets, guardians of your keys to survival, and possibly trail guides to your happiness. Make friends with them.

I've got to sign off now. But you can choose from many approaches to digging. Remember the "Parts Party?" Maybe another one to start...

I'll be back tomorrow.

Enjoy!

Thanks, I have guts.

I haven't had a real party in a bit. Since I discovered what partying meant.
Now for a fun party...

Van

Did some "parts" work this weekend, but differently.
Blew of some steam & went out with some girl friends of mine.
Talked danced and it was great to have that female closeness.

Felt great. Plus Ive been burning on a big deadline for Monday & its been great to be creatively invested again. Keeps my mind on track.

Did get a hang-up call from my ex today. 2 rings then nothing. Got my heart rate up for a few, but actually irritated me more than anything. Don't think its was an accident, as I got a couple before. She probably just wants me to know she's still around, in a pathetic & desperate way.

Delete.

Thanks for listening again.
Van

She probably just wants me to know she's still around, in a pathetic & desperate way.


Looks to me like your seeing things much clearer these days.

Thanks Tal, nice 2 hear from you.

Ive equating this to the weather. Clouds an cloudedness.

Sometimes its bright & sunny, other times rain for weeks. Not unlike Vancouver. Sometimes you get hit by a lightening bolt, recover & stand in the same spot only to hit again.

Whoa, did I just say that? LOL!

Anyway, Im trying. Don't wish to feel crappy anymore.

Me either, but it happens from time to time.

Its raining now, but the sun will be back, and the grass needs the rain, even if you don't.

Sometimes the Packers beat the Bears, and the Bear fans cry, :(!!

Now your topping me with the analogies, hehehe.

Nice one. Thanks. I like that.

A life one. Who's losing, really?

Its funny my ex would always say "this is not a competition" whenever I tried to get deep or equate my emotional experience.

Translation: The opposite.

Its funny my ex would always say "this is not a competition" whenever I tried to get deep or equate my emotional experience.

Translation: The opposite.

It's great that you cut loose with your female friends. Yeah, Boye... I hope you make your Monday deadline, and the work is superb.

Now you are free to get as deep as you want, Van. You can go wherever you can tune into with your mind, share it or not, discover new people, explore, find yourself again.

Now is it all about getting out of pain, or do you feel a drive to know more about yourself? If you dig deeper, what motivates you?

Tao

Thanks Tao.

Of course I want to know more. Not repeat my patterns.
My motivation is being happy.

Thanks Tao.

Of course I want to know more. Not repeat my patterns.
My motivation is being happy.

So, you can now turn your healing process into a long-term learning process. This will give you a practice, a steady, enjoyable discipline that you engage yourself in, and that gives you benefits like self-understanding, peace of mind, and so on.

You will make a "buy or build" decision. You can buy practices from the marketplace, such as various meditations, systems of yoga, martial arts, self-development workshops, etc. or you can build your own method. You already have your art, which might serve as the substrate or context for your next phase of inner work. If you find yourself sometimes going in deep reflective directions while doing your art, adding some additional purpose to it might work.

Or, if your art doesn't feel like the place for this sort of thing, you can pick any arena that suits you. Personally, I chose martial arts. The inner work in martial arts is at least as significant as the outer, physical aspect. It gets more so as one ages.

Whatever you pick will be your vehicle for letting your conscious control (an illusion, anyway) of yourself go, and inviting your unconscious mind to communicate with you. You get quiet and the parts that want to interact with your conscious self get expressive. You can be physically active or passive, just as long as you are listening and making it safe for those parts to come forward.

This is discovery, some of which you have already done. It is infinite. However you decide to practice, the first stage is all about discovery of what's there.

Well, how does that idea fit with your desires?


Tao

I guess the method, I will have to sort out.

Really interested in understanding who I am, why I make the decisions I do. Things of that nature, as well as understanding & controlling negative thoughts that impact me so much, like all of this breakup pain.

Not sure my career work really does that in a way I need.

Like you say, to truly listen to what's going on inside.

This is an amazing thread. 21 pages into this, and the insight is unreal. I say this to you guys in bed on the Itouch. This thread is infectious and full of everything I needed to hear, only four months late.

Figured I'd write something while I'm fully engrossed in this. I shudder to think where I would be today if I asked for assistance in June... onto page 22..

One more thing before I crash.

About the parts and listening.

"Who said you are?"

You?

Bump & Respond.

Exactly.
And to keep doing that. Forever.

We create all.

Take my recent professions lately as ones of honesty.

Resulting in some uplifting days and others when I wanted to jump off my balcony. Im still grieving in a way, just figuring my own path out & above. Truly learning from all of this suffering, self-inflicted. Who I am.

Taking more time than I anticipated. There's still her in my mind. And those tapes still run, crazy hurtful stuff, as well as those letters to her in my head. How may now? Stupid actually.

The good thing is that those tend to linger & not occupy. I use them to understand. Myself, more than anything. Don't disregard anything. But make sure to not dwell & move on. Its different daily.

Boy, have I learned a lot. Im still going. Thanks to all of you here.

You know who you are...

Needed to vent.

Had a few depressing days battling this and my habits.

Been going from trust in myself to questioning why Im here on this planet.
It makes me laugh that this breakup is causing this.

I don't want to care about her anymore & I still am.

Have had some parts meetings and tried to lay sh**t on the table. But getting frustrated. I need to really get busy and let this go. Curiosity, jealousness, rejection, revenge, confidence, laziness. Control. Peace, impatience, happiness... the room has been packed.

Both her words and actions still hurt. I want to put those away for a while.

Im getting angry again, which helps. I want a break from this. Im tired of her on my mind.

I find it helpful to identify what triggers certain feelings, and have plans in place to deal with those feelings.

You don't have to go through traumatic events to have a bad day, or be frustrated, believe me, as some days it doesn't pay to get out of bed.

I have many days that everything I touch turns to crap, and a lousy attitude (yes, sometimes I get those too) magnifies everything around me, and seems to make them worse.

I let them pass, and try not to bite anyone's head off (weathering the storm), and find something easy, and peaceful to do.

I find talking to myself and venting helps, but feel like an idiot when someone says, "who are you talking to?"

My wife tells me all the time to pull the covers over my head, when I'm having a bad day, so everyone can leave me alone. GRRR!!

Van, I hear what your saying.

The phrases, sayings and reasons my ex left me continues to be repeated over and over. Her having sex with someone else and poking jokes at it as if it were no big deal, eats away at my inner self like termites to rotted wood.

Though her and I went out for only a year, as opposed to your 5; I continued seeing her and further reducing my status and respect as a person.

You did the mature and amicable thing in NC. I would honestly give my left arm if I were to start all over again and do nothing but NC.

This is how strongly I feel, as my therapist today now has said I'm 'close to being hospitalized.'

What I'm trying to bring forth here, is that I know you respect yourself for straight NC through these times of personal hell, but to me, I consider you a god.

A 5 year relationship with a woman (whom I can relate very well with the kind of girl you went with, although mine's 13 years younger, which attracted to follow your status) and to continue with NC despite the hell of yearnings/rage/helplessness.

I hold you, Tal, Tao, and many others who have posted here and provided their worthy two cents, in extremely high regard.

Keep on with the updates.

Deleted for chat/text

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/no-chat-speak-no-text-talk-303157.html (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/no-chat-speak-no-text-talk-303157.html)

Thanks all.

Tal, I know all too well about talking to myself, as I work independently and spend the majority of my time alone. Good days & bad days, sometimes the combination of both.

Reactor, I appreciate your kind words and feel for you as well. I can't imagine having depression and a breakup on top of everything. Don't blame yourself. I, in know way wish to compare.

NC has removed the drama, yes. But has also been an internal battle that still goes on. It's the thoughts that pop up. Sometimes I can can deal with them straight away, other times debilitate me.

And johvanna,
I like your quote "God's delays aren't Gods denials"
Not looking for anything "coming back" in regards to her, but...
Patience. Yes. And more strength.

Reactor,

You are doing the right thing by getting help.

I got to say, Ive had a really low week. Wanting to cash it in.
Tired, exhausted actually of this and everything.

I think I need to seek some therapy as well. Feeling weak, I can't do it alone anymore. I know Ive gained, but can't seem to get it together.

I was hoping time and work would get me there, but I guess I haven't been working hard enough. Im sick of this. Feeling pretty worthless lately and replaced.

Van I think you re right about going for therapy it s a good thing.Even though all the emotions you re going through are normal it seems to me that you re a bit hard on yourself?Someone once said to me when we get stuck at least there s something there that can move forward if we allow ourselves to let it become unstuck-I rather like that one.

Thanks, I haven't found that something yet.

I'm honestly surprised you haven't yet spoken to a therapist yet.

In Vancouver, I can imagine there being more than enough capable and established/respected therapist's within comfortable driving distance. Go for it.

As for me, I'm on the brink of self-destruction. Lost my girl to greener pastors, lost my job, and lost myself.

Quite sure therapy will be excellent for your situation Van.

No doubt your still changing patterns of behavior, and thinking, that the time with the ex has led you too. That's okay, as it takes time, and there will be many things that will trigger good/bad memories.


As I work independently and spend the majority of my time alone.

This is something you can change, and should, as there is nothing like people, and activities, to overcome the triggers that bring haunting thoughts, and feelings, and make NEW memories and motivations.

I cannot tell you how volunteer work is a remedy, for many ills. One day a week can change your whole outlook, and give you something to look forward too.

I'm not saying make yourself into a social butterfly, but, do not isolate your self from human input, and feedback, for long periods of time. Not while your healing the hole in your soul!

Thanks, Reactor.
My story is very similar. Lost my job in March, girl in May to greener pastures, and myself slowly in the past 5 years. I feel your pain in those regards.

Haven't spoke to anyone professionally, thought I could do it myself and with all of yours and others help. Plus zero health insurance right now.

Tal, thanks.
I know Im changing and that brings more heartache at times.
I do engage, and am not a hermit. But, you're right, Changing lifestyle is something I need to work on. Sometimes, its just me & my mind.

Thanks guys...

Currently, I'm paying $85 a session (1 hour).

Though it's true, through Tao, Tal, and everyone else here, you have been getting excellent advice and feedback. I assume this thread isn't rated 5 stars for nothing.

Not to push, but how long has it been since you last heard word from your ex.

Are you proud of how long the NC has been, or has the time without contact gotten you more down and 'bloated', as it were. Odd question, but I'm curious.

Hello Van,

You could try reading some books like "conquest of happiness" by Bertrand Russell. It is a very easy read, not meant to be theoretical or scholarly, even though written by a very prominent mind. I found it very engaging. You are now figuring out the next stage of your life, and times like these are very important for growth. You are just building a new life. Think of it as a new life.

Once again, at the expense of repetition by everyone, DO stuff - go out, say hi to new people, volunteer (you must try this!), read, watch happy movies, run, jog, exercise, swim... and be patient with yourself. Therapist won't do anything for you - he will just urge you to take charge of this situation by doing these things.


Tara

"Therapist won't do anything for you"

I agree, and disagree. It's all in which therapist you choose, really. It can also be invigorating to share your inner most feelings with a face to face human being, rather than continuously typing/reading feedback vicariously throughout, which is definitely a helpful & healthy thing, no doubt.

Figure if this has helped you this far, speaking to someone respected/educated in the field could be that extra yardage you need to jump over this hell hurdle.

Such as life.

We all may be going or has been through similar things, and can give advise until the cows come home
But..

The point is its different for everyone.

For me it all helps.
Whatever it takes to break through.

Glad to have you all with me. And vis-versa

Reactor,

To answer your question about the last time.

Was a week & a half ago. A 2 ring hangup call on my cell.

The last time was and email & later a text wanted me to get together when she strolled into town. A month ago. "Id really love to see you" "I hope you will" kind of sh**t "Love, etc."

In between some attempts in contacting my closest friends.
"It would be helpful to know if hes ok.." "Can I call u 4 2 min?"

But first:
"Dont know where youre at, but Im ok"

Before that (the first one): "Not sure if youre working, but, I wanna say hi" "Let me know when I can call"

This was after our last conversation. As she hung up on me, left me sobbing & booked to visit her family to escape, a trip that was never planned for me.. 4 days after she dropped the bomb.

Dumped me over the phone, lied, then booked. Fix it later in her mind.

That's when I went NC and proud at least for that, as hard as it is. Thanks to the advice here. Yes mon.

Don't wish her or anything she touches to involve me physically ever again. Only if it helps me spiritually.

Im still working on that part.
Van
Hope that answers.

And, thanks tara1, don't mean to neglect you.

Read your thread. Some good advice about not worrying about your ex.
"all it does ist hurt you and make it so you can't heal and move on."

Your right about thinking of this as a new life. Well put. Thanks.

How's your healing going?

You have had 6 trigger points in the last 30 days! Your handling it great!



Was a week & a half ago. (1)A 2 ring hangup call on my cell.

(2)The last time was and email &(3) later a text wanted me to get together when she strolled into town. A month ago. (4)"Id really love to see you" "I hope you will" kind of sh**t "Love, etc."

In between some attempts in contacting my closest friends.
(5)"It would be helpful to know if hes ok.." "Can I call u 4 2 min?"

But first:(6)
"Dont know where youre at, but Im ok"

Before that (the first one): "Not sure if you're working, but, I wanna say hi" "Let me know when I can call"


Edit/ No your doing great since May!

I am doing better since I last wrote about myself. Thanks.

Here is something to keep you amused:
http://www.ted.com/talks/helen_fisher_studies_the_brain_in_love.html
Helen Fisher tells us why we love + cheat | Video on TED.com (http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/helen_fisher_tells_us_why_we_love_cheat.html)

Thanks, tal.

There's lots more. Just a matter of learning to not let them hurt me.


Tara:
Interesting stuff thanks.

Forgive me incessant posts lately.

Having a rough week.

Tapes are running tonight & talking in her voice. Sorry, Byron Katie.

"Ive been here for 5 yrs & never got a chance to be single in this city. I can't move again without experiencing that. Im over him, been there, done that. There's nothing more he can give me. Feel sorry, but this and my freedom is way more important than him.

Trying to get rid of this sh**t.
I guess we suffer, make progress and suffer some, or maybe that's just me.

"I guess we suffer, make progress and suffer some, or maybe thats just me."

Same boat boss... same boat... the constant struggle.

Sometimes I want to mirror her bad actions & justifications to end this pain in my head & heart.

The coldness, plan & composure, the silly jabs. "Can u check me in to my flights, youre the best boyfriend."

Me doing the same, in terms of emotional void. Sounds right many times.

Not caring.

My battle.

It seems we both need a little Rage in our emotions against 'them'.

I'm numb to rage, hence why I suffer.