Are Wright’s comments really inflammatory, or are they being used out of context, as Obama's Church has claimed?

The key to your answer is to switch the words white and black where they are present in his sermons. Then ask if a white candidate could attend a white separatist church and be seroiusly considered for the Presidency ?

Mods - can we merge these threads before they start spamming the board?

The key to your answer is to switch the words white and black where they are present in his sermons. Then ask if a white candidate could attend a white separatist church and be seroiusly considered for the Presidency ?

Yea, like Ron Paul.

Mods - can we merge these threads before they start spamming the board?
I believe an argument could be made in defense of Wright, his Church and its philosophy. I just wanted to provide an opportunity for a logical argument in favor of that premise.


Or do you believe otherwise?:)

I don't know that that is an accurate test, Tom, because the black experience in America is unique—it has no real parallel. And black Americans are unique. Just as the Jew wants the world to never forget the German Holocaust, the Black feels equally about its experience.

DC perhaps but until a black candidate moves beyond victimhood then I don't think their full potential will be realized. That is what separated Obama from Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. For all of the faults I found in Obama I thought he at least transcended that . But now there is more than suspicion that he is playing a con game with the electorate .

Tom

Which raises the question, “Is Wright teaching victim-hood?” Is he teaching youth that they are victims of the white power structure, or is he teaching something more along the lines of the Jews were at one time in Russia?


"We [Jews] formed the ghetto ourselves," wrote the Zionist leader Vladamir Zabotinsky, "... voluntarily, for the same reason for which Europeans in Shanghai established their separate quarter, to be able to live their own way." [KORBANSKI, p. 8] "The Ghetto was rather a privilege than a disability," notes J. O. Hertzler, "and sometimes was claimed by the Jews as a right when its demolition was threatened." [HERTZLER, p. 73] Boas Evron cites the work of fellow Israeli scholar, Yehezkel Kaufmann, in noting that
"the popular assumption that external anti-Jewish pressures forced
Group identify and exclusivity on the Jews is unconvincing, since
Historical evidence shows that Jewish exclusivity and aloofness
Preceded outside hostility and were thus its cause, not its result...

THE JEWISH COSMOLOGY OF VICTIMHOOD, PART I (http://www.jewishtribalreview.org/11cosmo.htm)

Mods - can we merge these threads before they start spamming the board?

NK, just a short while ago you posted this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/those-were-days-werent-they-194643-post938570.html#post938570):


There's no free exchange from you guys - you just come here to disparage a whole group. It's always negative, you search and dig up negative issues about a group you despise and make threads about it here. That's ALL you do. It's like negative/smear campaigning 24/7 and you're right, it is getting tiresome for the rest of us.

DC has offered an "an opportunity for a logical argument in favor of that premise." tom has said "For all of the faults I found in Obama I thought he at least transcended" victimhood and suggested black candidates can "reach full potential" if they would only move past that. Sounds like a couple of guys not just trying to smear Obama - and offering an opportunity for a free exchange of ideas to me.

DC, I believe they're entirely inflammatory. I've been in church virtually all my life and these messages of Wright's are not the message of the gospel. Though I understand that I haven't been there, the "black experience" is no excuse, and Wright's admission to the NY Times that Obama may have to eventually distance himself from him tells me that Wright knows this.

It certainly isn't a Christian message of forgiveness. To tell you the truth I was once seduced by the liberation theology that some of the Maryknolls and Jesuits were preaching... That is until I discovered it was just a front for the expansion of global Marxism.

DC I really don't care if they are modelling their theology along the lines of the Jewish experience . The United States cannot be led by a person who esposes separatism. As it is we already have too much identity group politics.

I want to know ;does Obama think the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an act of American aggression ? I think it saved thousands of GIs of ALL COLORS . I want to know if Obama thinks the US invented AIDS to infect the blacks . If he holds these views I think he is disqualified.

Hyperbole I will admit to, and that someone will subjectively be offended I don't deny, Steve.

However, for instance- in Wrights mind and the mind of his Church members who he is speaking to when he uses the term “America,” he is not referring to all Americans (Which should be obvious to anyone) but rather the 'White Power with capitol' who has governed in America since day one-and suppressed Blacks in America.

Yes Tom, even the Catholic Church appeared to buy into it in South America for a short time, and then renounced it.

An important point is what we mean when we use the term “Separatism.”

There is a great deal of controversy about whether the “Bomb” was necessary on Hiroshima and especially Nagasaki.


What are the Blacks to think as compared to white and Asian Americans, they're doing less well economically, more of their men are in jail, more of their girls have sexually transmitted diseases, few of them do as well in school, etc. How does one account for these myriad failings?

Even Liberalism has failed them… John Doggett when defending Clarence Thomas said: When I started my career as a legal services attorney in 1972, I thought that liberals really cared about the poor, the oppressed and people of color. Twenty-six years later, I have learned that while some have good intentions, many liberals are closet racists. They claim to be “sensitive, progressive and concerned,” while in reality far too many of them truly do not believe that blacks or Latinos are as smart as they are. In fact, their liberal orthodoxy cannot exist in a world where blacks and Latinos no longer “need” their help.
So separatism might appear to be the only way out for them.

But DC that argument completely disregards the advances that many Blacks have achieved (although I think you are correct in that the most successful appear to have rejected the paternalistic social contract of the libs) . But it is very disturbing that the Rev Wright rejects what he calls "middleclassness" ;the very formula to lift themselves up . Instead he champions victimhood as if he has a vested interest in preserving the status quo . Obama represents (supposedly ) moving forward. The Rev. Wright appears to me to be diametrically opposite. So then I have to ask Obama... if you espouse the philosophy of Rev Wright then how does it square with your positive message of change??

Why don't we let Mr. Obama speak for himself and judge by his actions, as he has never espoused anything the Rev's Farrakhan, and Wright, have said quite the opposite. So to try to make that mud stick, is a useless ploy, that plays on FEAR, and a smokescreen for a deep desire for him to fail. It would probably help white people to investigate, before they start to speak for the rationale of others. Until you sit in this mans church, and can speak about it, why even give credence to those political sound bits, intended to slow his momentum down?

How could he sit in the church for 20 years listening to this stuff ;calling this minister his spiritual mentor ;contribute to his church and not believe what the Reverend says ? Can you answer that ? I can't

Can you answer that ? I can'tWe know you can't so stop trying.

Are Wright’s comments really inflammatory, or are they being used out of context, as Obama's Church has claimed?


Are you asking in subject to Wright's opinions or that of "Black Theology?"

Well I do have issues here myself, he goes to and uses this church as a reference to show his christian belief, the church until this week has its princiiples posted on the internet ( but has since taken them off the interent) Obama references these in his previous book as major factors in his life.

The church has given Farrakhan, a achievement award ( guess no body told Obama about that either) So did he ever really go to church ?
Did he never look at his churches web site?

And if he disagreed so greatly with the churches teachings why did he stay a member all of those years.

I do believe he needs to address this, and yes, he may not believe what his pastor teaches ( but why have him as part of your campaign if you don't) I guess he needs to change his voter message, to at least I am not Hilary.

I do beleive he needs to address this, and yes, he may not beleive what his pastor teaches ( but why have him as part of your campaign if you don't) I guess he needs to change his voter message, to at least I am not Hilary.

Fr_Chuck, do you think it's possible that some of your congregants don't agree with you, but still share some respect for other things you do? Enough to attend your services once in awhile? Hello! Obama already addressed the fact that he doesn't agree with Wright's comments and opinions. What else is he suppose to do? Obama's not running for pastor of a church. If this was the criteria than McCain wouldn't have a snow balls chance in Hagee's anti-Catholic hell of being elected.

Yes and this has hurt McCain, but everyone does not think this should hurt Obama for some reason. If he does not agree with the major princiiiples of the church, why did he keep going,
It is like someone going and belonging to the catholic church but then saying well I don't believe in what they teach even though I was a member for 20 years,

It just seems the church was nice to use when people where referring to issues of maybe being a Muslim ( not that I ever thought he was) but his connections with their teachings will hurt him in many areas.
I am surprised Hillary has not pounced all over this.

Yes and this has hurt McCain, but everyone does not think this should hurt Obama for some reason. If he does not agree with the major princiiiples of the church, why did he keep going,
It is like someone going and belonging to the catholic church but then saying well I don't beleive in what they teach even though I was a member for 20 years,

It just seems the church was nice to use when people where refering to issues of maybe being a Muslim ( not that I ever thought he was) but his connections with thier teachings will hurt him in many areas.
I am surprised Hillary has not pounced all over this.


The whole "Muslim" thing was probably first instigated by racist mischief makers as proofed by a slew of Internet chained emails, not necessarily Republican or Democrat support based. Hillary, though did perpetuate the antics until Obama got tired of the nonsense and then she realized she'd better denounce the actions. He used national TV to call her on this, i.e. the Austin debate concerning the photo. Hillary's cheap jabs failed with the Ferraro incident also. Now the flavor of the month is rehashing Wright, Farrakhan, and playing six degrees of separation to Will Smith. McCain, thus far to his credit is running a fairly decent campaign. His supporters have acted desperate knowing McCain's basic strategy leans on the war issue. It's fairly easy for most voters in that if a person liked Dubya the second term, they are more likely to vote McCain.

Wright has a right to freedom of speech. Actually, I haven't heard him say anything that I completely disagree with. But, since he is dancing too close to the truth, mainstream media will demonize him. That's their job these days.
The chickens are coming home to roost.

Wright has a right to freedom of speech. Actually, I haven't heard him say anything that I completely disagree with. But, since he is dancing too close to the truth, mainstream media will demonize him. That's their job these days.
The chickens are comming home to roost.

Yup!

He is on a pedestal constructed by the "mainstream media"

Media? Wait a minute Fox news dedicated a whole segment to McCain visiting his second residency in Iraq. Maybe he's getting his mailing address confirmed with the Iraqi post office and having all his mail forwarded from the US... for the next one hundred years. :rolleyes:

he is on a pedestal constructed by the "mainstream media"

Yes he is! Hellary is dancing a jig. Since I have lost all faith in the election process, all I see is a nut with boobs and a boob with nuts on the democrat side. Don't even want to talk about the NeoCon war monger.

Yes he is! Hellary is dancing a jig. Since I have lost all faith in the election process, all I see is a nut with boobs and a boob with nuts on the democrat side. Don't even want to talk about the NeoCon war monger.



The general election system is antiquated and the Democratic primary/caucus formulation has gone into the realm of ridiculous. I'll respect your expressed sentiment and I do appreciate your humor. L-rd knows we need it. From one my favorite artists...



ARTIST: John Lennon
TITLE: Nobody Told Me

Everybody's talking and no one says a word
Everybody's making love and no one really cares
There's Nazis in the bathroom just below the stairs



There's always something happening and nothing going on
There's always something cooking and nothing in the pot
They're starving back in China, so finish what you got


Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Strange days indeed, strange days indeed


Everybody's runnin' and no one makes a move
Well everybody's a winner and nothing left to lose
There's a little yellow idol to the north of Katmandu

Everybody's flying and no one leaves the ground
Well everybody's crying and no one makes a sound
There's a place for us in movies, you just got to lay around


... most peculiar

Everybody's smoking and no one's getting high
Everybody's flying and never touch the sky
There's UFO's over in New York and I ain't too surprised


... most peculiar, whoa

Thank you Bobby. John has been my favorite human since I was 8. I appreciate your open mind and level head.

Imagine John and Willie on the same lineup? How would you control yourself Mag?

Are Wright’s comments really inflammatory, or are they being used out of context, as Obama's Church has claimed?
Well now, let's just take a look at this article for your answer.
Newsmax.com - Obama Attended Hate America Sermon (http://newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hate_America_sermon/2008/03/16/80870.html)

Well now, let's just take a look at this article for your answer.
Newsmax.com - Obama Attended Hate America Sermon (http://newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hate_America_sermon/2008/03/16/80870.html)

That article and indeed the website it comes from has been addressed previously.

I believe Obama dealt with these issues in his speech yesterday.

American politics, is the dirtiest business in the world, and no matter who it is, or what the topic is, the enemies of a candidate, will use anything they can to derail, that candidate. All excuses, as we can think for ourselves, and see through the crap being thrown (most can any way). You just have to figure Obama's enemies, have no choice, but to try and slow this guy down. He has them all scared, and rightfully so. Now we can see what he is made of.

Well now, let's just take a look at this article for your answer.
Newsmax.com - Obama Attended Hate America Sermon (http://newsmax.com/kessler/Obama_hate_America_sermon/2008/03/16/80870.html).

What half of the equator are you residing on? Like Skell said earlier, you're about five threads late to the party. Obama rose above the Republican fray after re-addressing these issues some 12 hours plus ago. Stay in touch, man.

American politics, is the dirtiest business in the world, and no matter who it is, or what the topic is, the enemies of a candidate, will use anything they can to derail, that candidate. All excuses, as we can think for ourselves, and see thru the crap being thrown (most can any way). You just have to figure Obama's enemies, have no choice, but to try and slow this guy down. He has them all scared, and rightfully so. Now we can see what he is made of.

Excellent point. If Obama weathers the nonsense storms it should just make him stronger. I hope he gets the nomination so that after that first national debate, the McCain choir will stop singing out of tune.

It is called vetting . We are trying to find out who Barak Obama is ;since his public record is so thin we have to look to other areas. The fact is that there is no way to know who he is from the combination of his current rhetoric and his current past associations . On the surface they appear incongruous .

I'm sorry if you don't think this is an approriate area of inquiry but we are deciding on who our leader should be for the next 4 years . He may be the next Lincoln for all I know ;but he could also be a great con man. All I know is that if a white man spend almost his entire adult life in an Ayrian white separatist organization and that fact was publicly known he should be instantly disqualified for the highest office in the land.

Jeremiah was a bullfrog,
He was a good friend of mine,
I never understood a single word he said,
But I helped him drink his wine.

All I know is that if a white man spend almost his entire adult life in an Ayrian white separatist organization and that fact was publicly known he should be instantly disqualified for the highest office in the land.

That's a very good point and if you wish to judge someone by a few seconds of their life by a few sound bites, is that fair or accurate. Are we skipping over the fact the Rev. Wright served his country? And his community? Are we aware of what he may have seen, over his lifetime? Its more like nitpicking than fact finding. To the Senators credit he had the integrity, and loyalty, to tell it like it is as he stated, if those few seconds of tape where all that he knew of the man, he would have been gone. Kudos, for not caving to the media, or anyone else, and that's what we need in the highest office. Someone for all the people, not just the PC ones.

At Willie's and my age, we will be on the same line up before long.

Taliniman

The litany of Republicans who's careers (which were much longer than Obama's )were destroyed for slimmer pretext of perceived racism is available . I cannot a this time name all ,but a good example is Trent Lott ;who had the audacity of honoring long time Senator Strom Thurmon on the event of his 100th birthday. Due to that little dust up he was forced to give up his leadership in the Senate and eventually resigned.

Also let's not forget a single moment in the career of Sen George Allen who was almost assured the Republican nomination until he made the single mistake of calling a stalker macacca.

Obama has not answered adequately for me how a 20 year implicit endorsement of black liberation theology has framed the person he is . Black liberation theology is not the theology of social Christianity that leaders like MLK Jr espoused . It is clearly separatist and it just is not congruent to the philosophy that a "uniter " would subscribe to .

The litany of Republicans who's careers (which were much longer than Obama's )were destroyed for slimmer pretext of perceived racism is available . I cannot a this time name all ,but a good example is Trent Lott ;who had the audacity of honoring long time Senator Strom Thurmon on the event of his 100th birthday. Due to that little dust up he was forced to give up his leadership in the Senate and eventually resigned.

Ol' Trent was a big wheeler dealer, and had allegations of fundraising problems here in Texas.

Also let's not forget a single moment in the career of Sen George Allen who was almost assured the Republican nomination until he made the single mistake of calling a stalker macacca.

And the senator has said what, about who? Allen sank his own ship.

Obama has not answered adequately for me how a 20 year implicit endorsement of black liberation theology has framed the person he is . Black liberation theology is not the theology of social Christianity that leaders like MLK Jr espoused . It is clearly separatist and it just is not congruent to the philosophy that a "uniter " would subscribe to .
I doubt seriously if the sound bites we have seen covers his 30 year career, nor gives us insights into his other sermons, which are suspiciously absent. Haven't you ever wondered if we are being fed only that which is negative to some? My own research has confirmed, that most of the things, in the snipets we see are correct, and above all the old guy is entitled to his opinion. Do you have a doubt this is a attempt to undermine his campaign, as I have found nothing else in the public forum, that shows any evidence, that he agrees with the good reverend, on these subjects. Further, its politics at its best (worse?)

Black liberation theology is not the theology of social Christianity that leaders like MLK Jr espoused .
You can explain that one, as black liberation theology, is not restricted to just MLK, who was assassinated in 1968, and many changes have been made since then, or are you saying we should go back to that time?

Forget what the Reverend says ;I have issues with the material available in the church's website . The basic philosophy is racist and separatist. I go into greater detail here : https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-provided-excellent-free-education-millions-195912-3.html

or are you saying we should go back to that time

MLK's message beats the hell out of what Rev Wright preaches :

I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
I have a dream today
I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of "interposition" and "nullification" -- one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.


By endorsing Rev Wright's self imposed segregation Obama is rejecting the message of MLK Jr . Obama needs to clarifiy this issue further .

forget what the Reverend says ;I have issues with the material available in the church's website . The basic philosophy is racist and seperatist. I go into greater detail here : https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-provided-excellent-free-education-millions-195912-3.html

I can just see you trying to to teach Black Theology. A class room full of African-Americans look up at the old white guy professor as they scratch their heads saying amongst themselves, "being separate from white Christian slave owners that beat us and raped our women, is a bad thing?!" Again Tom you're not understanding the fact that "Black Theology" and "Wrights personal views affixed to the theology" are apples and oranges. This is almost as silly as those whom deny the Holocaust. They are known history revisionist. Again your proving my earlier point that Republican Christians are less likely to understand the African-American communities, than their religious peers in Democrat Christians. Just another reason why most blacks vote Democrat.

Welfare?

Hello momma:

There's another thread going on here right now about Obama's church leader. There are those who complain that he's a separatist - that his church teaches division instead of togetherness...

These old white men are blind to the fact that their own churches teach division, just like your candidate is doing. They don't know that they're doing that... I have no idea WHY they don't know that, but it's clear that they don't.

excon

PS> I'm going to post this on both threads.

PPS> Don't vote for the guy.

PPPS> Christians, please explain to me how declaring this nation to be a Christian nation is NOT separatist!!

Well I'm out of here. There is no way that my views can be compared to holocost denying .

well I'm out of here. there is no way that my views can be compared to holocost denying .

Have a good one. No offence, but that was your choice to make innuendo of Barack being a racist.

Hello again:

There is a racial disconnect here. It's been going on for a long, long time. Maybe, the time has come to discuss it.

Bobby pretty much hit the nail on the head. Black people, the age of Wright, AREN'T a bunch of happy Americans. They personally experienced racism up close and personal. They were told to sit in the back of the bus. They were told that they couldn't pee in a white restroom, couldn't drink from a white water fountain, and couldn't eat at a white restaurant.

White people, the age of tom, never really understood what was going on, but nonetheless, believes they should get over it, and, have no clue why they don't.

excon

By endorsing Rev Wright's self imposed segregation Obama is rejecting the message of MLK Jr . Obama needs to clarifiy this issue further .

Beside what the media has presented, is there anything else he has said that you don't agree with?

Me too Tom…I thought I might get some sort of argument in Wrights defense but all I see is an attack on his critics with a little Jewish victimhood thrown in.

Hello DC:

I'm not surprised you're out of here. I just showed up, and my arguments scare you.

excon

Me too Tom…I thought I might get some sort of argument in Wrights defense but all I see is an attack on his critics with a little Jewish victimhood thrown in.


Moving on? Well you'll never be short on gas and there's certainly enough room in that empty argumentative U-Haul truck of yours to pick up more Republicans.

More of the same Bobby…It makes me wonder about the Obama supporters who has spoken in this forum who can't put together an argument supporting Wright and his church when others have, including Obama.

Hello again:

There is a racial disconnect here. It's been going on for a long, long time. Maybe, the time has come to discuss it.

Bobby pretty much hit the nail on the head. Black people, the age of Wright, AREN'T a bunch of happy Americans. They personally experienced racism up close and personal. They were told to sit in the back of the bus. They were told that they couldn't pee in a white restroom, couldn't drink from a white water fountain, and couldn't eat at a white restaurant.

White people, the age of tom, never really understood what was going on, but nonetheless, believes they should get over it, and, have no clue why they don't.

ex, I never really 'understood' what was going on, I just went to school with all my mostly Hispanic and black friends every day. Sure I get it now, but even as Obama said yesterday America has not been static on racial issues.

If his Wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Wright) is correct, I have to wonder what Wright is so pi**ed about.


He then joined the United States Marine Corps and later transferred to the United States Navy where he worked as a cardiopulmonary technician.[1] Wright then enrolled at Howard University, where he received a bachelor's degree in 1968 and a Master’s degree in English in 1969. In 1975, he earned an additional Master’s degree from the University of Chicago Divinity School, and a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary in 1990 where he studied under Samuel DeWitt Proctor. He also has eight honorary doctorate degrees and has taught courses at many seminaries and universities in the nation.

It sure sounds like this country has really held him back, doesn't it? The man has it far, far better than I do. Maybe members of his congregation don't though, but what value to them is there in railing against the "Great White West?" How exactly does that lift them out of their situation? And the question I've asked over and over is how is telling me how racist I am going to heal anything?

Hello again, Steve:

Great questions.

First and foremost, Wright isn't running for president. Yes, things are a million percent better for black people today than they were. But, we're not there yet – not by a long shot... I think, you think we are. Therein, lies the disconnect.

No, you're not racist, Steve. But somebody still is, and somebody needs to keep pointing it out. I know that you're a good man, and that when you look around your community, you don't understand why black people still live over there. You think they have the opportunity to get out if they really wanted to. And, of course, some do. Yes, MORE do today than ever did.

I also think you look in their neighborhood and see people living that way by choice. I don't. I see the result of racism.

You don't get that the drug war is racist, and has replaced segregation as the black mans bane. You don't get that denying children health care is racist.

Wright understands all of these things well. He's always talked about it, and I hope he always will.

excon

how is telling me how racist I am going to heal anything?
I can't say you are, and nothing in your writing makes you one.

Maybe members of his congregation don't though, but what value to them is there in railing against the "Great White West?"

Stands to reason he has seen a lot over the course of his life, and how can we just dimiss that, because some conservative poly wog is offended? Again, how can a sound bite, define a mans whole life? Does that erase the rest of his service? Don't you wonder, why they never talk about that, while they vilify a few comments? I am curious, and more than a little suspicious.

Hello again, Steve:

Great questions.

First and foremost, Wright isn't running for president. Yes, things are a million percent better for black people today than they were. But, we're not there yet – not by a long shot.... I think, you think we are. Therein, lies the disconnect.

No, of course I don't think we're "there" yet. And of course, somebody still is racist and no, we shouldn't stop talking about it. But (you knew there'd be a but), like the incident at the University of Delaware (http://www.thefire.org/index.php/article/8555.html) I've mentioned before that says the term racist "applies to all white people (i.e. people of European descent) living in the United States, regardless of class, gender, religion, culture or sexuality,” how does that kind of thing heal the racial divides that still exist? Black preachers and black churches may not see the big deal in railing against white America as Wright did, but I do, and I see no difference in that and what this university tried to do.

You're a smart guy, do you not see that much of the left is invested in keeping racism alive while people like me are saying what the hell are you people talking about? We don't care if you're black or whatever, we intend to treat you as anyone else, give you the same opportunities and expect the same in return, so why are you talking about how racist we are in ANY context? That doesn't help us confront the problems together. HOW we talk about racism matters, doesn't it?

Wright obviously became a student of Carmichael; black power ideology and philosophy. Was he wrong?

Were Huey P. Newton, Bobby Seale, Eldridge Cleaver, Malcolm X, and the Mass protests of the 60's wrong?

Wrong or right they did not have enough muscle to change power relationships.

In the early 70's Afro-Americans like Wright then turned to putting their theories into practice: Building community organizations and creating the economic and political foundations necessary for the future, while railing against everything white.

The black liberation struggle in this country is not over; everything from violence to an appeal to conscience has been found woefully inadequate.

Such things as 'The Black Caucus and elected officials is the current method to change.

It's a fairly short read and I recommend it for anyone interested in the "Black Experience in America" (http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext93/blexp10.txt)

Stands to reason he has seen a lot over the course of his life, and how can we just dimiss that, because some conservative poly wog is offended? Again, how can a sound bite, define a mans whole life? Does that erase the rest of his service? Don't you wonder, why they never talk about that, while they villify a few comments? I am curious, and more than a little suspicious.

Like I asked excon, HOW we talk about racism matters, doesn't it?

Like I asked excon, HOW we talk about racism matters, doesn't it?
Yes it does. It goes on a lot more than we think. Do you think that Hannity believes that? He ticks me off.

More of the same Bobby…It makes me wonder about the Obama supporters who has spoken in this forum who can't put together an argument supporting Wright and his church when others have, including Obama.


Try to stay in touch with reality. I've been on the subject going on a week now. Just because you have your head stuck in John McCain's tuchus doesn't mean others have to accompany you into deaf, dumb, and blatant blindness. You just went from philosophical second string bench-warmer to first string denial. Congratulations!

Yes it does. It goes on a lot more than we think. Do you think that Hannity believes that? He ticks me off.

Hannity is a paid Fox news commentator. I don't even think he believes his own nonsense. He's making a career out of presenting himself as a narrow minded pompous and he's doing a great job at it. :cool:

Bobby

More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit?

Hannity is a paid Fox news commentator. I don't even think he believes his own nonsense. He's making a career out of presenting himself as a narrow minded pompous and he's doing a great job at it. :cool:
More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit? :rolleyes:

Yes it does. It goes on a lot more than we think. Do you think that Hannity believes that? He ticks me off.

I have no idea what Hannity thinks, I don't watch his show or listen to his radio program. Do you?

More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit? :rolleyes:

Genetics? A cloned monkey knows that Hannity is a paid Fox news employee that hired to provide commentary with a Republican slant. Surely even you've made far enough progress up the evolution ladder to recognize that. ;)

Genetics?! A cloned monkey knows that Hannity is a paid Fox news employee that hired to provide commentary with a Republican slant. Surely even you've made far enough progress up the evolution ladder to recognize that. ;)
More insults, is there anyone you have not insulted? :rolleyes:

More insults, is there anyone you have not insulted? :rolleyes:

Yes. I have not insulted those of intelligence with an IQ minimum above room temperature. :)

Yes. I have not insulted those of intelligence with an IQ minimum above room temperature. :)
Is that Jewish superiority I hear? I suppose the Old Yiddish folk saying is true… "Villains fare well in this world, saints in the next world.":rolleyes:

Is that Jewish superiority I hear? I suppose the Old Yiddish folk saying is true… "Villains fare well in this world, saints in the next world.":rolleyes:



Are you hearing voices... again? We have a saying, "A sheivgendoiker nar is a halber chcochem." Which means, a quite fool is half a sage. Here's another, "Ver es kon kain pulver nit shmeken, der zol in der malchumeh nit gai'en." Which means, He that cannot stand the smell of gunpowder should not engage in war! And since you, an atheist, all the suddenly became interested in my Jewish heritage here's one to take to heart, "Mit yid iz gut kugel essen, ober nit af ain teller. Which means, it's good to eat pudding with a Jew, but not from the same plate. :)

Glad to see the bonding, but I'm confused as to which of you to vote for.

Well yes Bobby, as an atheist I can hardly claim God's unabashed favoritism.:p

Glad to see the bonding, but I'm confused as to which of you to vote for.

No, no, no! Please don't put me on the ballot, I already have enough responsibility. Besides my wife just gave me orders to quit toying with DC. Time permitting I'll catch everyone later in the week. G-d bless.

Glad to see the bonding, but I'm confused as to which of you to vote for.
I can’t run talaniman, do you realize how terrific and remarkable his insights and sensitivities are! How could any one person be so brilliant, so on-target, so profound?. he must be Jewish!:p

.

What half of the equator are you residing on?! Like Skell said earlier, you're about five threads late to the party. Obama rose above the Republican fray after re-addressing these issues some 12 hours plus ago. Stay in touch, man.

I'm residing on the half of the equator that QUESTIONS things that need to be questioned, not on the half that BLINDLY BELIEVES in all that your candidate conveniently throws at you. I know you are desperately trying to cover this IMPORTANT matter up between Obama and Wright, but guess what? It Just Won't Go Away! It Can't! The American people have now grabbed ahold of it tightly and are not letting go and are going to see it to the finish! Oh, and just because Obama addressed the Republican party with his clever rhetoric and smile, you believed every word he said huh? Didn't God give you a brain with which to question independently, man? I know, you are just a blind believer in Obama. Bet if he told you that the fragrance was alluring and asked you to stick your head inside an outhouse opening, you'd ask how deep and for how long, sir. Man, that's what I call Double Blind Faith in a smooth talker!

I'm residing on the half of the equator that QUESTIONS things that need to be questioned, not on the half that BLINDLY BELIEVES in all that your candidate conveniently throws at you. I know you are desperately trying to cover this IMPORTANT matter up between Obama and Wright, but guess what? It Just Won't Go Away! It Can't! The American people have now grabbed ahold of it tightly and are not letting go and are going to see it to the finish! Oh, and just because Obama addressed the Republican party with his clever rhetoric and smile, you believed every word he said huh? Didn't God give you a brain with which to question independently, man? I know, you are just a blind believer in Obama. Bet if he told you that the fragrance was alluring and asked you to stick your head inside an outhouse opening, you'd ask how deep and for how long, sir. Man, that's what I call Double Blind Faith in a smooth talker!

Replace the name Obama with the name Bush in this post and you have a great description of the other half of America.

Oh but sorry, Bush certainly doesn't have clever rhetoric though does he.

I can’t run talaniman, do you realize how terrific and remarkable his insights and sensitivities are! How could any one person be so brilliant, so on-target, so profound? ... he must be Jewish!:p

Why are you so blatantly jealous? And trust me you wouldn't get elected. ;)

Genetics?! A cloned monkey knows that Hannity is a paid Fox news employee that hired to provide commentary with a Republican slant. Surely even you've made far enough progress up the evolution ladder to recognize that. ;)

Want to bet.

I'm residing on the half of the equator that QUESTIONS things that need to be questioned, not on the half that BLINDLY BELIEVES in all that your candidate conveniently throws at you. I know you are desperately trying to cover this IMPORTANT matter up between Obama and Wright, but guess what? It Just Won't Go Away! It Can't! The American people have now grabbed ahold of it tightly and are not letting go and are going to see it to the finish! Oh, and just because Obama addressed the Republican party with his clever rhetoric and smile, you believed every word he said huh? Didn't God give you a brain with which to question independently, man? I know, you are just a blind believer in Obama. Bet if he told you that the fragrance was alluring and asked you to stick your head inside an outhouse opening, you'd ask how deep and for how long, sir. Man, that's what I call Double Blind Faith in a smooth talker!


Providing that Obama get's the Democratic nomination, I cordially invite you to a reality check discussion the day after the first national debate with John McCain. ;)

Wow! That was awesome guys. I read it twice.

Wow! That was awesome guys. I read it twice.

LOL! If you give DC enough rope he usually hangs himself. This time his shallow temperament led him down the anti-Semite stereotyping path. As for SkyGem, he will be assisting his economic guru "McCain" as they watch the masses file bankruptcy and finalize foreclosure proceeding. :D

Yep. Right after McCain trades his dollars for Euros.

I have frequently observed Jewish socialist agitation from hotheaded romantics resort to the ultimate insult, nothing new there.

But to get back more on track Bobby, your spin reminds me of Obama's last speech; it proved him to be a great politician rather than a great leader. All that talk and he left out the important questions.

Hello again,

Go Jews!

excon

excon

Yeah, the losers in a debate always what to get off topic and stay off. Somehow they count that as a win…But then I never understood socialist, except their pursuit of something for nothing.

Hello DC:

Here, smoke some of this. It'll mellow you out a little.

excon

Bobby

More insults, is that genetic with you or a learned habit?

Wait a minute... that was really cheap. You are anti-semitic. That's what they call me because I have certain views about Israel and the United States ties but I don't attack anyone for having Jewish genes as you do. You just disguise it with a dump truck load of crap. Still stinks.

excon
IBDeditorials.com: Editorials, Political Cartoons, and Polls from Investor's Business Daily -- The Roots Of Black Anger (http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=290819534202149)
Do you want to see some real “anger?” “In his speech, Obama rationalized that "the history of racial injustice in this country" gives rise to the kind of anger that fueled Rev. Jeremiah Wright's anti-white rants. He ticked off slavery, Jim Crow laws, school segregation and job bias, and maintained that discrimination still is holding back African-Americans.”

Yeah, I'm angry; I'm angry that an American a can swallow up the swill from the trough of a racist presidential candidate who offers nothing but “Something for nothing.”

Wait a minute...that was really cheap. You are anti-semitic. That's what they call me because I have certain views about Israel and the United States ties but I don't attack anyone for having Jewish genes as you do. You just disguise it with a dump truck load of crap. Still stinks.
Right, being Jewish is genetic…perhaps you can give us the code because science cannot.

More distractions and insults.

The Jews finally have a home land and now you are trying to deny them their genetic code... shame on you! You are worse than I first suspected.

The Jews finally have a home land and now you are trying to deny them their genetic code...shame on you! You are worse than I first suspected.
And you like Bobby have resorted to insults while distracting from the topic.
There is no genetic code that makes a distinction between Jew and Christian, so how could I be denying them their code.

If you are so interested in Jews why not start a new thread…Here, I’ll even give you an OP… What, dare we ask, is a Jew anyway?

Meanwhile what do you have to say about the OP topic.

What, dare I ask, is a Dark Crow, if not a hater of the Jewish peoples.

Actually we are not inclined to trust people in general. The fossil record of crows is rather dense in Europe, but the relationships among most prehistoric species is not clear. Jackdaw-, crow- and raven-sized forms seem to have existed since long ago and crows were regularly hunted by humans up to the Iron Age.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Corvus_corax_%28FWS%29.jpg/260px-

...and crows were regularly hunted by humans up to the Iron Age.
Warning: persecution complex.

:D

and maintained that discrimination still is holding back African-Americans.”I'm angry....Hello again, DC:

It still IS, if you bothered to pay attention, which you don't.

Whitey's like you never liked the message. I don't expect things to change now. And, yes of course you're angry. You don't like anything to upset your white sensibilities.

excon

excon
I don't think expressing “victimology” and anti-white rants is going to help much, although I can see where getting “Something for nothing” is tempting. The thing Marxist Socialist fail to realize is there is no “Free Ride” and a price must be paid…in this case it is liberty.

Hello again, DC:

It still IS, if you bothered to pay attention, which you don't.

Whitey's like you never liked the message. I don't expect things to change now. And, yes of course you're angry. You don't like anything to upset your white sensibilities.

excon

I hear you! I've been dragging white Republicans screaming and crying into class all week and what thanks do I get? Well it sent Tom bailing on the post and drew anti-Semite remarks from the shade-tree philosopher. Least they could do is send me their stimulus rebate checks since they voted for Bush twice; I didn't.

Replace the name Obama with the name Bush in this post and you have a great description of the other half of America.

oh but sorry, Bush certainly doesnt have clever rhetoric though does he.
" .... clever ...." you have just hit the nail on the head, Skell! You obviously know Obama pretty well! Plenty of CLEVER words but with little substance or the experience to carry them out. They are great dreams in a world where people are looking with rose-colored glasses. Plenty of people aren't buying the "cleverness" and one can only look forward to more controversies about Obama before this is over. Americans have a right to know! Still, it looks pretty bad when Obama can't even place his hand over his heart while the National Anthem is playing. And sorry, this is not "old" news, it is the CURRENT news of the day that just WON'T go away!

There are days that I don't want to say the pledge of allegiance either. I hate politicians that want to fake their feelings and gloss over reality. Maybe we should change the pledge of allegiance to the "pledge of recession." There's some days I don't even try to fool myself. I just think what the hell happened to my America... it's now the land of ignorant blabber mouth Republican commentators. If McCain's elected you'll need to learn the Iraqi national anthem in preparation for the next hundred years.

Hello again, DC:

It still IS, if you bothered to pay attention, which you don't.

Whitey's like you never liked the message. I don't expect things to change now. And, yes of course you're angry. You don't like anything to upset your white sensibilities.

excon
Excon

So, there are some laws that discriminate against blacks…show me, I’ll lead the way on having them repealed.

So, there are some laws that discriminate against blacks…show me, I’ll lead the way on having them repealed.Hello again, DC

Ever heard of crack? Go do some philosophizing on why black people, who predominately use crack, get FIVE TIMES the sentence for the same amount of coke than their white counterparts get, who predominately use powered cocaine.

I’m sure you’ll come up some reason other than racism for the discrepancy.

excon

Excon

Why am I not surprised you believe it is another white mans conspiracy to eliminate the Black race in America.

That's as far out as another conspiracy theory I heard… Black activists organized the Sandinista government in Nicaragua in order to get crack cocaine imported to the U.S.