What is your opinion about abortion?

Another can of worms opened.

I refuse to answer this question as it is a very personal decision whether one believes or not.

Why do you ask?

Are you asking for the purpose of a debate, or are you having a problem that you need help with?

Yes, if you wish to have a open discussion, we can move this over to the member discussion section, where there is more "room" for opinons and free speech. But this subject has been discussed to death there are those who want it, those who believes it is a personal choice and others who believe it is wrong, no one is changing their minds.

So why do you wisht o discuss this, if for discussion we can move it to discussion, if you have a specific need, tell us what it is

Just wondering, where I live it is illegal, so I wanted to know from people who live in other places.

<Moved to Member Discussions>

Ok, now it is on discussion, non medical opinion it is the killing of an inocent baby and is worst than the war crimes of WWII in Germany and the american medical community doing this should be treated like the war criminals from WWII for their death chambers for the babies.

But then you asked my opinion

I am neither pro life, nor pro choice... I take the holistic approach. The approach that many do not even understand...

I take the mental and physical health of the mother into consideration as well as the physical health of the fetus.

Abortion should never be used as a form of birth control... but if there are medical issues that involve the life of the mother, and/or the life of the fetus, then these should be discussed prior to making a decision either way.

I am neither pro life, nor pro choice...I take the holistic approach. The approach that many do not even understand....

I take the mental and physical health of the mother into consideration as well as the physical health of the fetus.

Abortion should never be used as a form of birth control....but if there are medical issues that involve the life of the mother, and/or the life of the fetus, then these should be discussed prior to making a decision either way.

I agree, J_9; it's not an easy decision for a majority of the women who are faced with the situation, and mental and physical states should be accounted for. Counseling should take place before and after the procedure to hopefully avoid the situation in the future and to help women cope with their decision (whatever it might be).

It's a passionate topic, most everyone has an opinion, and most remain firm on their "side".

This is definitely a very personal question.

From my point of view, I think an abortion should only be done if there are serious medical issues or the person is far too young and is physically unable to bring up a child.

Abortion shuld not be done as a form of birth control, its like murder!

In the United States there have been apx 45 million children murdered since 1973. Such genocide should not be permitted anywhere.

So I thought about it, and the first thing that came to mind is : What kind of person goes through medical school with the ambition to become an aborionist? How would you live with yourself being one?

I never really thought about abortion because I never knew much about it. I was "pro-chioce" because I thought that an abortion took place while it was still in cell division... I was wrong.

I searched it on the internet because I thought I'd get videos on people who were giving their opinions about it. Instead I got videos that were so awful I had to turn them off. These videos told in detail how an abortion was proformed depending on which trimester it was in. Who knew that you could get an abortion in the 3rd trimester!! I consider that murder.

If you have a weak stomach do not read the rest of my post.
This is what the video told me:
1st trimester they use a vacuum to pull the fetus out.
2nd trimester they inject saline soution into the amnionic fluid knowing that the fetus will swallow it and die of convolutions and sezures.
3rd trimester is too awful to describe, but if you want to know you can Google it yourself.

The only time an abortion should be permitted is for health reasons or the person was raped. For any other reason it is just murder and a quick fix for irresponsiblity.

mjl MOST of the time, abortion in the 3rd trimester is performed because of health complications which compromise the life of the mother or the baby. It is unusual for one to take place so late because the mother "changed her mind". Just as an FYI. :)

I'm not sure what I think about the whole thing. I can understand it if the mother might die. I think I agree with what J_9 said about it. I really don't like seeing people use it as a form of birth control. I had a friend in high school who went out and got one and she never once even tried to use any form of birth control. It made me so mad! She could have taken the 2 seconds to use a condom or take a pill! I think sometimes people dismiss the responsibilities that go along with sex.

I agree jillianleab, I didn't know that. I also where I come from abortions are not done. I don't know all of the specifics.

I didn't know that!

Elective abortions are done during the first trimester (first 12 weeks), anytime after that they are primarily done due to dangers that the pregnancy pose on the physical health of the mother.

Elective abortions are when a woman CHOOSES to terminate the pregnancy and many places will not do one past 12 weeks of gestation.

Medical abortions are primarily when mom is at risk for losing her life or possible permanent damage that can occur because of a pregnancy.

You see, when people think about abortion, rarely do they see that there is another side to it other than simply terminating a pregnancy because the woman does not want a child. This is not always the case.

I am pro life and agree with J_9. Abortion should be taken seriously. Not "we can't afford an ideal bedroom for the baby or college when he/she is grown" I raised 4 kids by myself on $1,000. A month and I am so proud of them and looking forward to my first grandbaby in April.

Also, I have seen stories of adult children reunited with their birth mother that can't thank their mother enough for not taking their being raped out on them by aborting them.

So medical reasons is the only way I believe abortion should be considered. From what I have heard abortion for medical reasons is rather rare.

Congratulations on the soon to be new baby!

What is your opinion about abortion?
Abortion is something that's always going to stir up a mess of different opinions people are going to get pissed off and its never just going to be a discussion, but rather a debate..

I knew this girl who had two babies one was 2 and then she had another baby boy... well shortly after that one was born she found out she was pregnant again. And I remember her telling me right after she found out.. and the woman waited 3 months until she even told her boyfriend, and waited a whole nother month after that before she decided if she was going to keep the baby or not just because she is not ready to have yet another baby, and cannot afford it at that time.. All this enraged me.. because not only at the time I was having trouble conceiving, but the stupid woman ALLOWED herself to get pregnant and basically used abortion as birth control... she almost died from the procedure too because aparently she was further along than they all thought.

The ONLY time I feel abortion is OK is if A. woman is raped... child is molested, and becomes pregnant... or B. the fetus isn't developing properly and it is putting the mother in distress physically, causing her harm.

While I feel abortion should be legal, I see little difference in killing innocent people before or after they are born.

While I feel abortion should be legal, I see little difference in killing innocent people before or after they are born.

Knowing your work with dogs, lets play with that opinion, then you have no issue with just merely the killing of unwanted puppies, if you have an unwanted dog, just killing it is a valid OK thing to do?

I think what he meant about seeing little difference to mean that he thinks it is just as bad to have an abortion as it would be killing a baby after it is born.

I would never ask a girl to get an abortion. But at the same time I would never stop someone from getting an abortion either. So yeah I am Pro Choice.

A life is ended. Against.

Scott Klusendorf has a great website on defending the pro-life message:
Home Page (http://www.prolifetraining.com/)

Here's a great way to remember the only differences between a human embryos and me and you:


Size: True, embryos are smaller than newborns and adults, but why is that relevant? Do we really want to say that large people are more human than small ones? Men are generally larger than women, but that doesn’t mean that they deserve more rights. Size doesn’t equal value.

Level of development: True, embryos and fetuses are less developed than you and I. But again, why is this relevant? Four year-old girls are less developed than 14 year-old ones. Should older children have more rights than their younger siblings? Some people say that self-awareness makes one human. But if that is true, newborns do not qualify as valuable human beings. Six-week old infants lack the immediate capacity for performing human mental functions, as do the reversibly comatose, the sleeping, and those with Alzheimer’s Disease.

Environment: Where you are has no bearing on who you are. Does your value change when you cross the street or roll over in bed? If not, how can a journey of eight inches down the birth-canal suddenly change the essential nature of the unborn from non-human to human? If the unborn are not already human, merely changing their location can’t make them valuable.

Degree of Dependency: If viability makes us human, then all those who depend on insulin or kidney medication are not valuable and we may kill them. Conjoined twins who share blood type and bodily systems also have no right to life.

If you hear someone say that, "the choice to have an abortion is personal," you will soon realize how incoherent our culture has become. Because what this means is that they have rendered the question of whether to have their own child murdered to a "personal" matter. Who, on this earth, has a "personal right" to murder an obviously innocent human being?

Remember, the only legitimate questions to consider are: What is an abortion? What is murder? And What is a human being? All other questions or considerations are just rationalizations for murdering a human being for "its own good."

I just read your question and I think it's a totally OK question to ask. I myself have just found out I'm pregnant. Literally 4 weeks gone.my fiancé and I have both chosen it is the correct choice to have a termination. If our current situation was different then we would by all means keep this child. But its about making a mature decision which ever way you feel it takes a strong person to keep a baby. But in my opinion a stronger person to terminate one. Its not a cowards route out like I no some people feel like I said before it takes a mature person to make the appropriate choicex

Wait you got an abortion? Meaning terminating the pregnancy?

I am pro life... medical reasons is the only way I believe abortion should be considered. From what I have heard abortion for medical reasons is rather rare.

How dare you call yourself pro-life while advocating the MURDER of INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS for any reason! You are a disgrace to the title that you claim to posses.

Complications

You can have

With your abortion.

Bladder Injury

If your uterus is perforated, your urinary bladder can be perforated, too. This can also cause peritonitis (an inflamed, infected lining of the abdomen) with all of its pain, dangers and necessary reparative surgery.

Bowel Injury

If your uterus is perforated, your intestines can be perforated, too. This will cause nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, fever, blood in stool, peritonitis (an inflamed, infected lining of the abdomen) and death if not treated quickly enough. A portion of the intestine may have to be taken out, and a temporary or permanent colostomy may be put in your abdomen.

Breast Cancer

Women who have aborted have significantly higher rates of breast cancer later in life. Breast cancer has risen by 50% in America since abortion became legal in 1973.

Ectopic (Tubal) Pregnancy

An ectopic pregnancy is any pregnancy that occurs outside the uterus. After an abortion, you are 8 to 20 times more likely to have an ectopic pregnancy. If not discovered soon enough, an ectopic pregnancy ruptures, and you can bleed to death if you do not have emergency surgery. Statistics show a 30% increased risk of ectopic pregnancy after one abortion and a 160% increased risk of ectopic pregnancy after two or more abortions. There has been a threefold increase in ectopic pregnancies in the U.S. since abortion was legalized. In 1970, the incidence was 4.8 per 1,000 live births. By 1980 it was 14.5 per 1,000 births.

Effects on Future Pregnancies

If you have an abortion:

(1) You will be more likely to bleed in the first three months of future pregnancies.

(2) You will be less likely to have a normal delivery in future pregnancies.

(3) You will need more manual removal of placenta more often and there will be more complications with expelling the baby and its placenta.

(4) Your next baby will be twice as likely to die in the first few months of life.

(5) Your next baby will be three to four times as likely to die in the last months of his first year of life.

(6) Your next baby may have a low birth weight.

(7) Your next baby is more likely to be born prematurely with all the dangerous and costly problems that entails.



Failed Abortion

Failure to successfully abort the unborn younger than 6 weeks is relatively common. Sometimes, an abortionist fails to evacuate the placenta from the uterus. This means the pregnancy continues even though mother has endured the dangers and cost of an abortion.

Hemorrhage

One to fourteen percent of women require a blood transfusion due to bleeding from an abortion.

Hepatitis

This can occur if you have to have a blood transfusion after an abortion.

Infection

Mild fever and sometimes death occurs when there is an infection from an abortion. This happens in anywhere from 1 in 4 women to 1 in 50 women.

Laceration of the Cervix

About 1 out of 20 women suffer this during an abortion. This causes you to have nearly a 50/50 chance of miscarrying in your next pregnancy if it is not treated properly during that pregnancy. A high incidence of cervical damage from the abortion procedure has raised the incidence of miscarriage 30-40% in women who have had abortions.

More Miscarriages Later

Women who have had two or more abortions have twice as many first trimester miscarriages in later pregnancies. There is a ten-fold increase in the number of second trimester miscarriages in pregnancies that follow a vaginal abortion.

Perforation of the Uterus

Women suffer a perforated uterus in between 1 out of 40 and 1 out of 400 abortions. This almost always causes peritonitis (an inflamed, infected lining of the abdomen), similar to having a ruptured appendix.

Placenta Previa

Placenta previa occurs 6 to 15 times more often after a woman has had an abortion. In this condition your baby’s placenta lies over the exit from the uterus so that the placenta has to be delivered before the baby can get out. This causes the mother to bleed severely while the baby almost always dies, unless your obstetrician recognizes this condition and removes the baby by Caesarean section at just the right time in the pregnancy.

Post-Abortion Syndrome

Frequently after an abortion, women suffer a range of mental and psychological problems. These may include recurrent dreams of the abortion experience, avoidance of emotional attachment, relationship problems, sleep disturbances, guilt about surviving, memory impairment, hostile outbursts, suicidal thoughts or actions, depression, and substance abuse. These problems may occur days to years later.

Retained Products of Conception

If your doctor leaves pieces of the baby, placenta, umbilical cord, or amniotic sac in your body, you may develop pain, bleeding, or a low grade fever. Besides antibiotics and possible hospitalization, you may require additional surgery to remove these remaining pieces.

RH Incompatibility

Your doctor should be sure of your baby’s Rh blood type if you are Rh-negative, so that he can protect you and your next baby against future Rh incompatibilities. These Rh incompatibilities can:

. Require that future babies will need transfusions soon after birth,

. Cause future babies to be born dead because of the incompatibilities,

. Cause future babies to die soon after birth because of the Rh incompatibility.

If your doctor doesn’t check the blood type of the baby you are going to abort, even in very early suction abortions done before eight weeks, fetal-maternal hemorrhage can occur, thereby sensitizing you if you are Rh-negative.

Severe, Rapid Bleeding

You may develop DIC (disseminated intravascular coagulopathy) from your abortion. This means your blood does not clot and you will bleed uncontrollably. DIC is extremely life threatening and difficult to treat. It occurs in 2 out of 1,000 second trimester abortions.

Sterility

After an abortion you may become sterile. This happens in 1 out of 20 to 1 out of 50 women. The risk of secondary infertility among women with at least one abortion is 3 to 4 times greater than that among women who have not aborted.

Unrecognized Ectopic Pregnancy

Your doctor may try to abort the baby but be unsuccessful because it is developing in your fallopian tube. Unfortunately this tubal pregnancy ruptures later and emergency surgery must be done to save your life. All women in their first trimester should have an ultrasound to make sure they do not have an ectopic pregnancy.

Young Women

Complication rates of abortion increase with younger, teen-age women. However, younger women who carry their babies to term have better births than older women if they get proper care. There is evidence that in 15 to 17 year old women, pregnancy may even be physically healthier than in women of older ages.




"In medical practice, there are few surgical procedures given so little attention and so underrated in its potential hazards as abortion. It is a commonly held view that complications are inevitable."

- Dr. Warren Hern, world renowned abortionist


References

A. Arvay et al. "Relation of Abortion to Premature Birth," Review French GYN-OB, vol. 62, no. 81. 1967

F.Avey, Canada Col. Family Physicians, "Pregnant Teens…" Family Practice News, Jan. 15, 1987, p. 14.

Barrett et al. "Induced Abortion, A Risk Factor for Placenta Previa," Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, Dec. 1981, pp. 769-772

W. Cates et al. Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 132, p. 169

Clow & Crompton, "The Wounded Uterus: Pregnancy after Hysterectomy," British Med. Jour. Feb. 10, 1973, p.321

Duenhoelter & Grant, "Complications Following Prostaglandin F-2A Induced Midtrimester Abortion," Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 46, no. 3, Sept. 1975, pp. 247-250

Herlap, New England Jour. Of Med. no. 301, 1979, pp. 667-681 G

Hilgers et al. "Fertility Problems Following an Aborted First Pregnancy." In New Perspectives on Human Abortion, edited by S. Lembrych. University Publications of America, 1981, pp. 128-134

Hilgers et al. "Fertility Problems Following an Aborted First Pregnancy." New Perspectives on Human Abortion, University Publications of America, 1981.

L. Iffy, "Second Trimester Abortions," JAMA, vol. 249, no. 5, Feb. 4, 1983, p. 588.

A. Jakobovits & L. Iffy, "Perinatal Implications of Therapeutic Abortion." Principals and Practice of OB & Perinatalogy, New York, J. Wiley & Sons, 1981, p. 603

Lanska et al. "Mortality from Abortion & Childbirth," JAMA, vol. 250, no. 3 , July 15, 1983, pp. 361-362

Levin et al. "Association of Induced Abortion with Subsequent Pregnancy Loss," JAMA, vol. 243, no. 24, June 27, 1980, pp. 2495-2499

Levin et al. JAMA, vol. 243, 1982, p. 2495

E. McAnarney, "Pregnancy May Be Safer," OB-GYN News, Jan. 1978 Pediatrics, vol. 6, no. 2, Feb. 1978, pp. 199-205

D. Nemec et al. "Medical Abortion Complications," OB & GYN, vol. 51, no. 4, April 1978, pp. 433-436

Panayotou et al. "Induced Abortion & Ectopic Preg." Am J.OB-GYN, 1972 114:507

Puyenbeck and Stolte, "Relationship Between Spontaneous and Induced Abortion, and Second Trimester Abortion Subsequently," Europ. J. OB-GYN, Reprod. Biol. 14, 1983, 299-309.

Ratter et al. "Effect of Abortion on Maturity of Subsequent Pregnancy," Med. Jour. Of Australia, June 1979, pp. 479-480

Richardson & son, "Effects of Legal Termination on Subsequent Pregnancy," British Med. Jour. vol. 1, 1976, pp. 1303-4

L. Roth et al. "Increased Menstrual Symptoms Among Women Who Used Induced Abortion," Amer. Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 127, Feb. 15, 1977, p. 356

Rubin et al. "Fatal Ectopic Pregnancy After Attempted Induced Abortion," JAMA, vol. 244, no. 15, Oct. 10, 1980

J.A. Stallworthy et al. "Legal Abortion: A Critical Assessment of its Risks," The Lancet, Dec. 4, 1971

L. Talbert, Univ. of NC, "DIC More Common Threat with Use of Saline Abortion," Family Practice News, vol. 5, no. 19, Oct. 1975

D. Trichopoulos et al. "Induced Abortion & Secondary Infertility," British Jour. OB/GYN, vol. 83, Aug. 1976, pp. 645-650

U.S. Dept. H.H.S. Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report, vol. 33, no. 15, April 20, 1984

White et al. "D.I.C Following Three Mid-Trimester Abortions," Anesthesiology, vol. 58, 1983, pp. 99-100

Wright et al. "Secondary Trimester Abortion after Vaginal Termination of Pregnancy," The Lancet, June 10, 1972


Information prepared by: Laurence J. Burns, D.O. Board Certified in Obstetrics & Gynecology, I. Dale Carroll, M.D. Board Certified in Obstetrics & Gynecology, Ronald E. Graeser, D.O. Board Certified in Family Practice.

OH YA YOU GUYS REALLY CARE ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER. SURE YOU DO. (sarcasm intended)

From abortion no.org

I personally don't approve of abortion but I think it should be legal with parental notification for under 18s and no taxpayer funding.

I learned a long time ago that until I am in a position to have to make such a difficult decision, I will not really know what I might or might not do. I know what I believe I would do. I know what I would like others to do, but that is not my choice... anymore than I would want someone else making choices for me who are not living my life.

Pro-Choice.

Pro-Choice.
"Pro-Choice"? What about the baby's choice? What about the American taxpayers' to fund abortion instead of being FORCED to pay by our nation's leaders? If you or any other supposedly "Pro-Choice" people were actually PRO-choice than you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today so that the mother can actually SEE and KNOW what an abortion actually is and what their baby looks like. Informed Consent is PRO Choice. PRO-ABORTION organizations like Planned Barrenhood I mean Planned Parenthood have actually said that the majority of women, if shown the reality of what they are about to do and shown their developing child in the womb, would not have an abortion. We can't have that, now can we? If we let women see the truth than they will not have an abortion and Planned Parenthood will loose money. No Don't let the people be enlightened. Let them stay blind to the truth of abortion. We need them to line our pockets out of their own ignorance.

SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT ABORTION IS. STOP THE SLAUGHTER OF 4,000 INNOCENT BABIES A DAY IN THE NAME OF "CHOICE"

CHERISH LIFE

"Pro-Choice"? What about the baby's choice? What about the American taxpayers' to fund abortion instead of being FORCED to pay by our nation's leaders? If you or any other supposedly "Pro-Choice" people were actually PRO-choice than you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today so that the mother can actually SEE and KNOW what an abortion actually is and what their baby looks like. Informed Consent is PRO Choice. PRO-ABORTION organizations like Planned Barrenhood I mean Planned Parenthood have actually said that the majority of women, if shown the reality of what they are about to do and shown their developing child in the womb, would not have an abortion. We can't have that, now can we? If we let women see the truth than they will not have an abortion and Planned Parenthood will loose money. No Don't let the people be enlightened. Let them stay blind to the truth of abortion. We need them to line our pockets out of their own ignorance.

SHOW THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHAT ABORTION IS. STOP THE SLAUGHTER OF 4,000 INNOCENT BABIES A DAY IN THE NAME OF "CHOICE"

CHERISH LIFE



I leave it up to God to decide who is a sinner, who is not, who is worthy of redemption, who is not, who will find salvation and who will not.

I don't throw the first stone nor do I judge other people. I also don't take advice from people who cut and paste what others have written and don't give their source.

(Mandatory birth control? Who is going to be in charge of going bedroom to bedroom, condoms in hand, enforcing THAT law - ?)

I leave it up to God to decide who is a sinner, who is not, who is worthy of redemption, who is not, who will find salvation and who will not.

I don't throw the first stone nor do I judge other people. I also don't take advice from people who cut and paste what others have written and don't give their source.

(Mandatory birth control? Who is going to be in charge of going bedroom to bedroom, condoms in hand, enforcing THAT law - ?)

First, Sin is Sin and it is our job (authentic Christians) to exploit it. I never said that women who have abortions are not worthy of redemption or salvation or anything else that you think I was saying. Second, I never said "Mandatory" Birth Control; I said Mandatory Informed Consent for women going to abortion mills. Meaning I believe that women should be informed before and while they go to the murder mills because spokespeople for Planned Parenthood know and have said that if women know what their baby looks like, if they know what an abortion looks like, and if they know the facts. Than THEY PROBABLY WONT HAVE AN ABORTION.
Next time don't try to read into someone's post what IS NOT THERE.

I
I also don't take advice from people who cut and paste what others have written and don't give their source.
)

If you are referring to my quote on page 3 LOOK AT THE END OF THE QUOTE. I VERY CLEARLY WROTE "FROM ABORTION NO.ORG". HAPPY?

Everything else is entirly mine and common knowledge

If you are referring to my quote on page 3 LOOK AT THE END OF THE QUOTE. I VERY CLEARLY WROTE "FROM ABORTION NO.ORG". HAPPY?

Everything else is entirly mine and common knowledge



I don't think it's "entirly" yours and/or common knowledge. You said: "If you or any other supposedly "Pro-Choice" people were actually PRO-choice than you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today -."

I read that to refer to the mandatory use of the many methods of BIRTH CONTROL that we have available to us today.

What are you referencing - ?

It is "our job as Christians" - ? You think everyone who posts here is Christian?

I don't think it's "entirly" yours and/or common knowledge. You said: "If you or any other supposedly "Pro-Choice" people were actually PRO-choice than you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today -."

I read that to refer to the mandatory use of the many methods of BIRTH CONTROL that we have available to us today.

What are you referencing - ?

It is "our job as Christians" - ? You think everyone who posts here is Christian?

First, Ya I know you read it to mean " the mandatory use of the many methods of BIRTH CONTROL that we have available to us today." But that is not what I said and I am unable at this point to see where you read anything about "BIRTH CONTROL" (implied or otherwise) in my post. It is just not there. I will now repost that particular sentence where I said "mandatory" and were you went wrong in interpreting my post to mean that I advocate "mandatory birth control".

"If you or any other supposedly "Pro-Choice" people were actually PRO-choice than you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today.--- You were all right up to this point , but here is were you went wrong. You took out the whole end of the quote and substituted it w/ "BIRTH CONTROL" Here is the REAL ending of my post: "so that the mother can actually SEE and KNOW what an abortion actually is and what their baby looks like. Informed Consent is PRO Choice."
There. That shows that I was talking about INFORMED CONSENT NOT "BIRTH CONTROL.

In regard to your 2nd question, What are you referring to when you say What are you referencing - ?"

Lastly, No I don't think that everyone who comes on here is Christian; I just said "Christian" because I am Christian (Catholic) and that particular part of the post was meant for any and all Christians who might just happen to find themselves on this particular topic and see that particular post.

Also, I said "entirely" with the meaning of what I meant it with. I meant that it is a product of my years of research and my own personal statements. LET US NOT DWELL ON SEMANTICS HERE. READ IN CONTEXT.

First, Ya I know you read it to mean " the mandatory use of the many methods of BIRTH CONTROL that we have available to us today." But that is not what I said and I am unable at this point to see where you read anything about "BIRTH CONTROL" (implied or otherwise) in my post. It is just not there. I will now repost that particular sentence where I said "mandatory" and were you went wrong in interpreting my post to mean that I advocate "mandatory birth control".

"If you or any other supposedly "Pro-Choice" people were actually PRO-choice than you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today.--- You were alright up to this point , but here is were you went wrong. You took out the whole end of the quote and substituted it w/ "BIRTH CONTROL" Here is the REAL ending of my post: "so that the mother can actually SEE and KNOW what an abortion actually is and what their baby looks like. Informed Consent is PRO Choice."
There. That shows that I was talking about INFORMED CONSENT NOT "BIRTH CONTROL.




So the full sentence would have read "If you... were actually PRO-choice than [sic.] you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today so that the mother can actually see... blah, blah, blah."

What methods are you talking about? I still don't think this sentence makes any sense.

Wonder how many Christians you drive away from the Catholic Church with these opinions and how many you bring into the fold?

So the full sentence would have read "If you ... were actually PRO-choice than [sic.] you would advocate for the mandatory use of the many methods that we have available to us today so that the mother can actually see ... blah, blah, blah."

What methods are you talking about? I still don't think this sentence makes any sense.

Wonder how many Christians you drive away from the Catholic Church with these opinions and how many you bring into the fold?

The sentence makes absolute perfect sense. It is YOU who refuses to see the sense in it because it does not say what you want it to say. Just accept it for what it is and STOP dwelling on this particular part! It seems to me that you are writing so much on this particular piece of my original post because you are afraid to answer the rest! So please do yourself a favor and stop obsessing over this part and answer the rest if you are intellectually able.
Now I will answer the question "what methods?" the methods are embryology, ultrasound, and other means of seeing the baby and seeing what an abortion is & does.

"Wonder how many Christians you drive away from the Catholic Church with these opinions and how many you bring into the fold?"
What opinions are you talking about here? The opinions that abortion is wrong because it is murder and the American people should actually see what abortion is? Also, the Most Holy, Christ Founded, Catholic Church does not want members who do not follow exactly what it teaches. People who do not believe what the Church teaches have no business in the Catholic Church.

People who do not believe what the Church teaches have no business in the Catholic Church.


At last we are in agreement -

At last we are in agreement -

And again you fail to answer my post. It is quite laughable actually. Okay, What do you mean by your latest post? I have my thoughts about what it is, but I do not want to assume as someone we know does all to often.

I have always been pro-life but I am even more against it because before me, one of my husband's ex-girlfriends accidentally got pregnant even though they were practicing safe sex. She told him she was pregnant and was getting an abortion; he told her that he wanted to have the child. She agreed to have the baby, waited a few months, then told him that she took his money and made him fund half of an abortion that he didn't want.

So please, somebody tell me: how can you call it "pro-choice" when the mother gets her way, yet the baby and father get the sh!t end of the deal? That's the most stupid definition I've ever heard because the ONLY person who gets the choice is the woman.

And again you fail to answer my post. It is quite laughable actually. Okay, What do you mean by your latest post? I have my thoughts about what it is, but I do not want to assume as someone we know does all to often.



I agree again - your post is QUITE laughable.

I have always been pro-life but I am even more against it because before me, one of my husband's ex-girlfriends accidentally got pregnant even though they were practicing safe sex. She told him she was pregnant and was getting an abortion; he told her that he wanted to have the child. She agreed to have the baby, waited a few months, then told him that she took his money and made him fund half of an abortion that he didn't want.

So please, somebody tell me: how can you call it "pro-choice" when the mother gets her way, yet the baby and father get the sh!t end of the deal? That's the most stupid definition I've ever heard because the ONLY person who gets the choice is the woman.


There is not an answer that would suit everyone. I think the pro-choice designation comes about because the woman is the one going through a potential pregnancy. Unfortunately, often times the father isn't even in the picture so it is left to the woman to make the decision. When the father does want the child, should the woman be made to go through the pregnancy, labor, and birth... what about possible complications... perhaps having to quit work and/or school? Some people will think so, others won't. You can find so many different variables that not everyone will agree are valid. It simply is one topic that will always have different points of view... often depending on the individual circumstances.

There is not an answer that would suit everyone. I think the pro-choice designation comes about due to the fact that the woman is the one going through a potential pregnancy. Unfortunately, often times the father isn't even in the picture so it is left to the woman to make the decision. When the father does want the child, should the woman be made to go through the pregnancy, labor, and birth....what about possible complications....perhaps having to quit work and/or school? Some people will think so, others won't. You can find so many different variables that not everyone will agree are valid. It simply is one topic that will always have different points of view...often depending on the individual circumstances.

I just don't like the fact that if a woman's husband/fiance/boyfriend forced her to have an abortion, that would be a violation of her rights; yet when the husband/fiance/boyfriend is the one who wants the baby, it's up to the woman whether she's going to go through with it.

There is no such thing as equal rights when it comes to pregnancy or abortion - there are women's rights and that's where it ends. If we as women are going to demand to be treated as equals, then we sure as hell better not start asking for special treatment.

I just don't like the fact that if a woman's husband/fiance/boyfriend forced her to have an abortion, that would be a violation of her rights; yet when the husband/fiance/boyfriend is the one who wants the baby, it's up to the woman whether or not she's going to go through with it.

There is no such thing as equal rights when it comes to pregnancy or abortion - there are women's rights and that's where it ends. If we as women are going to demand to be treated as equals, then we sure as hell better not start asking for special treatment.


Would you want to be forced to go through a pregnancy, labor, and birth if you didn't want to? It can go both ways... but because a pregnancy can have a tremendous effect on a woman's body, the ultimate decision will lie with her. Not everyone agrees, of course, but there has to be some sort of determining factor.

I agree again - your post is QUITE laughable.

Well well well. Here we go again. You are beginning to be too predictable. Trying your hardest to divert the matter at hand. Instead of answering any of my claims you have attempted to draw all attention to your pitiful insults and gradeschool objections. Act as the "Expert" that you are propported to be and answer my claims. My enjoyment is fleeting. Make my day.

Well well well. Here we go again. You are begining to be too predictable. Trying your hardest to divert the matter at hand. Instead of answering any of my claims you have attempted to draw all attention to your pitiful insults and gradeschool objections. Act as the "Expert" that you are propported to be and answer my claims. My enjoyment is fleeting. Make my day.


Beginning? Gradeschool? Propported?

Let's see - you said, "And again you fail to answer my post. It is quite laughable actually."

I agree - "it" is.

Would you want to be forced to go through a pregnancy, labor, and birth if you didn't want to? It can go both ways....but because a pregnancy can have a tremendous effect on a woman's body, the ultimate decision will lie with her. Not everyone agrees, of course, but there has to be some sort of determining factor.

And an abortion doesn't have tremendous effect on the preborn baby's body?

You are right. Not everyone agrees. Especially you and I. Just like not everyone agreed on the issue of slavery, not everyone agrees on the issue of abortion. Tell me, what is the "determining factor".
If taking care of a newborn baby will compromise the mother's health, i.e. stress, loss of sleep, monatary problems, the list goes on, should she have the right to kill it?
Pregnancy is not the evil anti-woman thing that you, Planned Parenthood, and every other pro-abort makes it out to be. PREGNANCY IS NATURAL. A woman's body is designed for it. abortion is not. Are you propurting here that after the abortion the mother will just move on with her life? Do you think that she will never remember her lost child and never feel remorse for takinf the life of another person? There are thousands of women who regret abortions that they have had. The stress and grief are unimaginable! So many compl,ications can occur from procuring an abortion. Dramatically increased risk of breast cancer and ectopic pregnancy, Blood clots accumulating in the uterus, requiring another suctioning procedure.
• Infections, most of which are easily identified and treated if the woman
Carefully observes follow-up instructions.
• A tear in the cervix, which may be repaired with stitches.
• Perforation (a puncture or tear) of the wall of the uterus and/or other organs.
This may heal itself or may require surgical repair or, rarely, hysterectomy.
• Missed abortion, which does not end the pregnancy and requires the abortion to
Be repeated.
• Incomplete abortion, in which tissue from the pregnancy remains in the uterus,
And requires a repeat suction procedure.
• Excessive bleeding requiring a blood transfusion (National Abortion Federation: Safety of Abortion (http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/safety_of_abortion.html))

take your pick.ABORTION IS BY FAR THE MOST HARMFUL CHOICE THAT A MOTHER CAN MAKE. BOTH TO HER AND HER UNBORN CHILD.

I believe this is cut and paste without a source being quoted - and then there's the matter of the misspelled words and strange punctuation.

What is the source of this info?

There is not an answer that would suit everyone. I think the pro-choice designation comes about due to the fact that the woman is the one going through a potential pregnancy. Unfortunately, often times the father isn't even in the picture so it is left to the woman to make the decision. When the father does want the child, should the woman be made to go through the pregnancy, labor, and birth....what about possible complications....perhaps having to quit work and/or school? Some people will think so, others won't. You can find so many different variables that not everyone will agree are valid. It simply is one topic that will always have different points of view...often depending on the individual circumstances.

NO INCONVEINANCE THAT A CHILD CAN RENDER UPON HIS MOTHER WILL EVER BE TOO GREAT AS TO HAVE TO KILL THE CHILD SO THAT THE MOTHER CAN BE HAPPY.

Lets say that a woman gets pregnant and decides that she wants the baby. So she caries the baby to term and then gives birth to her. Now the baby is six months old and might cause the woman to have to quit school/ work. Should she have the right to kill her? What if taking care of the baby is taxing the mothers health so much that she cannot live a healthy life anymore. Can she kill her baby?

NO INCONVEINANCE THAT A CHILD CAN RENDER UPON HIS MOTHER WILL EVER BE TOO GREAT AS TO HAVE TO KILL THE CHILD SO THAT THE MOTHER CAN BE HAPPY.

Lets say that a woman gets pregnant and decides that she wants the baby. So she caries the baby to term and then gives birth to her. Now the baby is six months old and might cause the woman to ahve to quit school/ work. Should she have the right to kill her? what if taking care of the baby is taxing the mothers health so much that she cannot live a healthy life anymore. Can she kill her baby?



You are confusing two very different legal issues - abortion and murder.

This is my problem whenever this topic is raised. It goes from abortion to murder, always the same argument, always the same rantings and misspellings. Same argument - "and then the child is one and the mother says ..."

The "pro life" people can't seem to stay on topic.

I believe this is cut and paste without a source being quoted - and then there's the matter of the misspelled words and strange punctuation.

What is the source of this info?

What I am siting begins with the bullets. My source is (National Abortion Federation: Safety of Abortion)



Enough dwelling on unimportant matters and answer my arguments.

This will be my last post directed to you if you choose to do otherwise.

You are confusing two very different legal issues - abortion and murder.

This is my problem whenever this topic is raised. It goes from abortion to murder, always the same argument, always the same rantings and misspellings. Same argument - "and then the child is one and the mother says ..."

The "pro life" people can't seem to stay on topic.

It is the same topic because abortion is murder because the unborn is a human person.

And I bet you have never answered the argument. Maybe because of well I don't know.. YOU CANT?

It is the same topic because abortion is murder because the unborn is a human person.

And I bet you have never answered the argument. Maybe because of well I dont know.. YOU CANT?



Legally these are two very different issues - although you do not see it that way.

And I don't make the rules about giving sources. It's a rule of the Board.

Not concerning any moral issues here but I find it interesting that so many people who complain about their taxes and, specifically, Welfare, are NOT in favor of abortion. Who will pay for these children? Who will parent and support them?

I'd be curious to know how many people on this thread who are anti abortion have either adopted or fostered or volunteered and what they see the answer to the financial part of this argument to be.

Thread closed!