I am a very attractive woman and my boyfriend is very attracted to me. I make him very happy and I'm usually very easygoing. I know he loves me and I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, but I almost have an anxiety attack thinking about him watching porn (I introduced it into our relationship and can't handle thinking about him watching it now) or going to a strip club. He hasn't been to one since we've been together, but he has 3 friends getting married this year so there are 3 bachelor parties to go to. How do I get over my insecurities?! I really, REALLY don't want any other woman dancing on him and I especially don't want him throwing money at women! Ugh.

First, lets not make this another thread about pro/con porn or strip clubs. The issue isn't is porn bad/good... that's been dealt with over and over on the threads here. In the end, you choose what you are willing to demand, need, and live with. The issue at hand is there is a potential conflict that you want to address.

The ONLY thing you can do is talk to him about your desires and feelings and see what his response is. If you both feel strongly, but are on opposite sides, then its time to decide if its an issue worth a fight, step back, etc.

Would it be enough of a compromise to say "look, i dont want you going to a strip club, but i know you have three buddies getting married, so go if you think its important to you, but know i dont like it, and i really am against any other woman dancing on you"...

You introduced porn into the relationship as far as you know. He might have watched it before you and just not addressed it. One way some couples have used erotic materials is to share it. Just a thought. Some people can do this and be happy. Some cannot. Not judging one way or another.

Well there is no one to blame except yourself. If you want to understand how destructive porn can be in a relationship, just sit down and start reading all of the posts concerning it here. There are hundreds of people that have problems in their relationships over the issue of porn and pron addiction. And that is only here on this forum.

Be honest about the way you feel, tell him about it, ask him to stop or not to go to places that bother you.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

first, lets not make this another thread about pro/con porn or strip clubs. the issue isnt is porn bad/good... thats been dealt with over and over on the threads here. in the end, you choose what you are willing to demand, need, and live with. the issue at hand is there is a potential conflict that you want to address.

the ONLY thing you can do is talk to him about your desires and feelings and see what his response is. if you both feel strongly, but are on opposite sides, then its time to decide if its an issue worth a fight, step back, etc.

would it be enough of a compromise to say "look, i dont want you going to a strip club, but i know you have three buddies getting married, so go if you think its important to you, but know i dont like it, and i really am against any other woman dancing on you"...

you introduced porn into the relationship as far as you know. he might have watched it before you and just not addressed it. one way some couples have used erotic materials is to share it. just a thought. some people can do this and be happy. some cannot. not judging one way or another.

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Ok, you have a very good idea. Is it even possible for a guy to go to a strip club for a bachelor party and NOT get a lap dance though? Just wondering. I will talk to him about the compromise though. I think I set the stage for that discussion when we discussed me dancing with other guys when I go out with my girlfriends. He doesn't want me to and I don't want to. And that's a lot less troubling than strippers!

When I said I "introduced it" I meant as an erotic tool for us. He has watched porn for years before me. Since we pretty much live together, he doesn't masturbate as often as he used to, but it bothers me when he does that he's looking at other women. I hate gender roles and the way we socialized men and women to be different. We really aren't that different. How do I get over this insecurity since there's no real way to get him to stop>>>

You realize that it's JUST a picture. Period.

Would you stop watching romantic movies if he asked---including Disney, with their misrepresentation of how "happily ever after" works? Would you give up romance novels?

It's the SAME THING. You'd be asking him to give up something that he enjoys because YOU are insecure.

What exactly about it makes you feel threatened?

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Originally Posted by sww420

I am a very attractive woman and my boyfriend is very attracted to me. I make him very happy and I'm usually very easygoing. I know he loves me and I don't have to worry about him cheating on me, but I almost have an anxiety attack thinking about him watching porn (I introduced it into our relationship and can't handle thinking about him watching it now) or going to a strip club. He hasn't been to one since we've been together, but he has 3 friends getting married this year so there are 3 bachelor parties to go to. How do I get over my insecurities???!!! I really, REALLY don't want any other woman dancing on him and I especially don't want him throwing money at women!! Ugh.

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First off... Porn or Strip clubs have absolutely NOTHING to do with you, how you look or whatever...

There are people with a bug up their butt about porn... and make it their personal Crusade. They woould serve themselves better buy going on a crusade about being overweight... thats a far more common and more serious issue. Nobody ever contracted a disease or developed serious medical conditions from looking at a naked woman. Just to put things in perspective.

Back on topic Guys are visual... women aren't. That's why women have a hard time understanding. A guy that doesn't look at other women or like to look at other women is either gay or has other issues. Looking has nothing to do with pursueing I must point out. Looking = normal and OK, skirt chasing = Not OK unless he is single.


And lastly... what do you really enjoy that you are willing to give up in exchange? Tit for tat...

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Originally Posted by sww420

I think I set the stage for that discussion when we discussed me dancing with other guys when I go out with my girlfriends. He doesn't want me to and I don't want to. And that's a lot less troubling than strippers!!

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Well, if that's his position (dont dance with other guys) I don't see why he shouldn't honor your request.

My love likes to flirt... I have no problem with it or with her dancing with other guys... and she gives me the same considerations if I go out. From previous discussions on the boards here, we are probably more comfortable with our spouse flirting with other people than most... but I also trust her completely and we seem to have enough overlap in this area. Personally, I like seeing her get attention from other men, and they buy her drinks so the tab is less and she comes home worked up. Bonus. ;) it works for us. But that's us, not you.

He seems to trust your going out without him, and you've both agreed on what "limits" are reasonable for you two.

I think the more you can talk openly about sexuality and the relationship, the better. I don't like ultimatums... but calm, reasonable talking opens the door for other discussions.

Tell him that your feelings for him have grown over time and while you thought that bringing porn into the relationship would be "fun" at the time you did it, you now regret it. Explain to him that you don't want to compete with the unrealistic standards of porn and strip club women, and the very unrealistic behaviors they represent as "normal" for women. Let him know that you already feel tremendous anxiety over the upcoming bachelor parties.

I personally think that bachelor and bachelorette parties have become really low-class functions. Why encourage a man or woman to ogle or even have sex with someone other than their fiancé right before the wedding? What kind of start is that for the marriage? What are the friends thinking... "here, for your wedding, we want to give you this huge load of guilt and shame to carry into your beautiful new marriage!" It stinks.

What's wrong with the men getting some beer and cigars and playing poker, or going to a NASACAR race or the horse track or some other "male bonding" deal without strippers and prostitutes being there?

And what's wrong with women going out for a fabulous, beautiful, elegant dinner and maybe a concert or show instead of some cheesy male strip club? What's the need to get so hammered that you look like hell for the wedding later in the week and have shameful photos and memories to carry with you?

When I married, we had a couples shower, in the evening, outdoors, hosted by my sister. We had a keg of beer, some wine, steaks and chicken on the grill. People came in their nice shorts, had a great time - with their spouses and significant others - and nobody's relationship was harmed with worries and questions about "what happened".

At the wedding, we skipped the garter dance... again, why have my new husband start our marriage by taking a garter off my thigh in front of my grandmother? Tacky, tacky, tacky, tacky. He didn't smear cake on my face, either. We had a blast - it wasn't all so prim and proper that it wasn't fun - but at no point did anyone make an offensive sexual joke or otherwise make me feel anything but like I was pure class, and that he was the same.

Well here we go.

She is "insecure" and "threatened".

The OP'd ? Was how to talk to him about her feelings, not how to change her feelings. So now she should be more opened minded, but not him?

sww420... sorry if this thread blows apart now. I asked that this address your talking to him, not your "failure" to think like others.

*sigh*

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Originally Posted by Synnen

You realize that it's JUST a picture. Period.

Would you stop watching romantic movies if he asked---including Disney, with their misrepresentation of how "happily ever after" works? Would you give up romance novels?

It's the SAME THING. You'd be asking him to give up something that he enjoys because YOU are insecure.

What exactly about it makes you feel threatened?

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You're right. It's just a picture. I need to remind myself of that. I would never ask him to give up the porn. I just needed some perspective about it.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

well here we go.

she is "insecure" and "threatened".

the OP'd ? was how to talk to him about her feelings, not how to change her feelings. so now she should be more opened minded, not him.

sww420... sorry if this thread blows apart now. i asked that this address your talking to him, not your "failure" to think like others.

*sigh*

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THANKS SO MUCH!! I already started talking to him about one of my concerns and I feel better!! Only a few more topics to discuss with him and then I'll feel even more great than I do about our relationship. You're sooo right. Talk and compromise. Why didn't I think of it? ;)

I honestly just don't get it.

I'm a female, been in a relationship with my husband for going on 13 years---and I've never, in this relationship or others, had a problem with the guy LOOKING at other women.

It probably helps that I've known several strippers, and their attitude towards the guys in the clubs is generally "Which one is willing to spend the most money?" and NOT "God, I'd love to go home with that guy and knock boots with him".

I'm not saying that it's not okay to have a line that each relationship draws--I'm saying that it IS insecure to be threatened by a girl that absolutely doesn't want your man or by a picture on a TV screen or computer. I mean, it's JUST as rational (to me! ) for a guy to be annoyed and threatened by the unrealistic standards of romance that society sets up as it is for a woman to feel threatened by strippers and porn---and it's ALL stupid. Your mate is more likely to meet someone at WORK that they'd cheat on you with (if they were so inclined to do so in the first place) than at a strip club.

Look--I'm not downplaying that you feel what you feel. And I'm not attacking you for it. I just really, truly, honestly don't understand why you feel threatened/unhappy about guys going out and doing something stupid like looking at naked women. To me, it's less likely that he's "window shopping" for a replacement woman than women are "window shopping" for a new whatever at the mall. I just honestly do not get it. And I'm a woman!

So I say that it's an insecurity, because it kind of is. Is it discourteous of him to go against your wishes? Absolutely. But I guess the real thing that needs to happen is that TOGETHER you talk and define boundaries for your relationship. Remember--neither of you may be 100% happy with those boundaries. You saying that he can't go at all is really going to come across as "I don't trust you", and him deciding that no matter WHAT is planned, he is going to do what the guys do is saying "I don't care how YOU feel about it". There has to be a middle ground there somewhere, but you have to TALK to each other to figure out where it is.

Its great that you've talked to him but hopefully your not talking to him with the intent of getting your way in the end. The last thing you want to do to a man is make him feel trapped.

When most men look at porn they are not imagining being with that woman, or in the scene with her, and jthey deifnitely have no emotional attachments to the person on the screen. They just want a visual of boobs and vagina that they like so they can masterbate. That's it. He won't leave you for porn images so there's nothing to be insecure about there.

As for the strippers, you could give him all these rules but that once he gets there with his boys and all their support to be bad... he's going to do whatever he wants. I mean come on... Your basically letting him go to a candy store and not eat any of the candy. The strippers are just for entertainment. No sexual pleasure. Once that night is over the strippers go home withthere money and your man goes home to you. THE END.

You were right letting him know your uncomfortable about it, that may pursue him to do less then some of the other guys are doing but don't expect hiim not to have fun like all his boys will be. You shouldn't want to exclude him from all that fun. Which I s exactly what it will be... just fun.

Your insecurity issues can and will effect your relationship in a negative way if you can't fix them. And that is something you'll have to do on your own.

Just try to realize he is a grown man just like you are a grown woman. No one can tell him what to do and what not to do. He makes his own choices and if all the choices he makes are made to please you and not upset or disrespect you then he is doing a good job as your man. Your nagging him for no reason. Let the man be a man.

Find something else to do those nights with your girls and tell him that when he gets home that night your going to give it to him like never before. That should keep him looking forward to when the bachelor party is over and keep you feeling secure knowing your man won't do anything he isn't supposed to do because he'll get exactly what he wants when he gets home.

Be a fun girlfriend!

Relationships are about compromise and give and take. If you're uncomfortable about it, he needs to know that and you both need to discuss it. If it's wrong for you, then it's wrong for both of you. Would you compromise if he told you he was uncomfortable with something you were doing? If the answer is 'yes', then he needs to at least be willing to consider compromising with you. Just because you're uncomfortable with this does not mean that you are insecure. We all have different thoughts and values. That's what makes us all unique.

I don't get it: If a man has an extremely attractive girlfriend, why would he still need visuals of other women?

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Originally Posted by bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE

I don't get it: If a man has an extremely attractive girlfriend, why would he still need visuals of other women?

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Think of it this way... If a woman has Closets full of new clothes, why does she go clothes shopping at the mall, even if she isn't going to buy anything?

Smoothy, I don't know any woman who has every intention of buying clothes at the mall and never buys any.

Next example puh-leeze!

Okay, here are some other examples:

YOu have a perfectly good cat. Why would you ever want to go to the zoo to look at other animals?

You have a perfectly good diamond ring--why would you ever pause by the jewelers to see what beautiful things they have for sale?

You have a perfectly good garden--why would you ever go to the botanical gardens?

You live in a perfectly good city--why would you ever go to another city on vacation?

You have a perfectly good musical selection--why would you ever listen to the radio?

It's not about HAVING the other women in strip clubs and porn. It's just LOOKING at them.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

It's not about HAVING the other women in strip clubs and porn. It's just LOOKING at them.

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So why do men who have perfectly nice looking girlfriends want to go out and intentionally pursue their eyes?

Men don't go to strip clubs to just "look," they go there to be turned on as well. What's the point of looking at something if there is no satisfaction from it?

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Originally Posted by bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE

Men don't go to strip clubs to just "look," they go there to be turned on as well. What's the point of looking at something if there is no satisfaction from it?

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And being a woman you KNOW this about mens thoughts exactly how? And it differs from a woman window shopping when she doesn't want to buy anything exactly how?

An even better analogy... why should a woman want to read romance novels and watch any of the soap operas on TV daily? After all that's no different than a guy watching a nude woman dance that he will never be able to touch, much less be with.

Why does my wife like reading erotica? Shouldn't she get every bit of mental stimulation from me? Shouldn't I alone inspire her to the throes of deep passion and desire?

Why does she need more friends than just me? Aren't I the end all, be all? What is she seeking out that I cannot give?

Rhetorical questions, of course, and I suspect in the end we will just disagree. Personally, I don't go to strip clubs and don't chase down loads of porn. My wife doesn't like either and I can live without. Its not a battle I feel the need to fight.

But I am not threatened by her being friends with others, just as I'm not upset that she likes an occasional boddice ripper, or even a flat out compilation of short erotic stories. Should I be upset that shed rather see me in a tight tshirt than a baggy sweatshirt? I'm the same guy under there... so why is the primal response to visual cues bad?

Or its just bad when it isn't that one person you are with out of six billion people on the earth?

You cannot play both sides of the situation. Why is it hard to accept that a man might find a woman attractive, whether he is with her or not? Yes, we are visual apes and, yes, its often embarrassing how much the visual cues get right into our brains.

Dancing turns on my lover, as it does the same for me... but she doesn't have to only dance with me. So... is dancing with other men "wrong"? Some would say "yes" some would say "of course not"...

Every single time I go to a ballpark, I have the same rush of energy. The same visual stimulations, and anticipation.

And yes... if a man sees a woman he finds attractive, there's often a primal wondering accompanying that... it isn't just attaching a label of "pretty"... there are physiological changes in blood pressure, heart rate, brain activity. Even wondering what she might smell like or feel like. Its all but a mental reflex.

When you can find a way to rewire the male mind and alter often subconscious physiological responses, well, ill be scared.

I see attractive women all the time. I'm not ashamed. Not even when I feel that primal urge to chase. I've never cheated on one woman. Not once.

Oddly enough, every woman I've ever loved has cheated on me. Extreme case, sure, but please don't assume because a man get an erection tied to visual stimulation that the man is fundamentally broken.

I try to be polite. Ill talk to your face. But if you are wearing makeup I like... if that pushup bra you bought does all it advertises... if you painted your toes and fingernails and I notice. Uhm... what... am I supposed to find some way to ignore this?

I recognize it. Accept it. Manage it. And move on.

Now.. I do understand some of the point being made... you accept that a man can find a woman attractive for physical reasons... you do not accept that he should find any other woman sexually interesting... whether she's the stripper at a bar, the bikini clad girl at the beach, or the woman with the low cut blouse on the elevator.

I'm sorry... we can choose where we go for mental stim to some degree... and like I said, I've steered clear of some of those for my mate, but really... the primal urge id feel looking at an erotic dancer isn't all that different from the same urge id feel if a woman's skirt got caught by the wind and I saw her panties and more of her body than shed like to bare.

Unless you want to wear burkas and put me in blinders, that primal excitement is just a part of being alive for most men.

So Smoothy, why would you go to a strip joint?

Your analogy doesn't make sense:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

Women also get stimulated by the naked body of a male, but we don't turn into vicious pigs.

I thought you were upset about the mental stimulation... the arousal...

So if a woman is aroused by erotica, is she also a "vicious pig?"

Or must the stimulation be visual and with skin showing?

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Originally Posted by bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE

So Smoothy, why would you go to a strip joint?

Your analogy doesn't make sense:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

Women also get stimulated by the naked body of a male, but we don't turn into vicious pigs.

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Whoa whoa whoa---

Your last line tells me a WHOLE lot about YOU.

Men don't turn into vicious pigs because they see more skin than their woman would like them to.

The ones that are vicious pigs about it are the ones that are vicious pigs anyway.

So women don't SEE men naked in bodice rippers--well, they IMAGINE them naked. Or I do, anyway.

And it's not the nakedness that is the problem. Guys don't want women watching soap operas and reading bodice rippers because --please note the irony here--it gives women an unrealistic idea of what romance is.

Just like porn/strippers (in the argument sometimes given against them) give men an unrealistic idea of what sex or the female body should be like.

Frankly, I'm not going to wear a burkha and outlaw strip clubs because too many women don't have enough self-confidence to deal with their man LOOKING (just looking, not cheating, not touching, certainly not ing) at another woman.

And I will say again:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

There is a difference between imagining and going to "look" at the real thing. I see as a sign of disrespect.

I agree that it is very disrespectful. If you're a single guy, go nuts, who cares, you have no one to hurt. But if your girlfriend or wife is hurt or offended by strip clubs, there is absolutely no reason why you need to go and inflict that hurt on her. Whether the man sees it or not, it is a sign of disrespect to the one he's committed to.

So is physical infidelity worse than emotional infidelity?

Depends on what you mean by "emotional."

Do you mean emotional with another man/woman, or emotional over a book or movie?

Oooooh... if a man is turned on because of a MOVIE---isn't that the same thing as a woman getting emotional about a movie?

So PORN is okay, but not strippers? By your reasoning, I mean.

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Originally Posted by bEaUtIfUlbRuNeTtE

So Smoothy, why would you go to a strip joint?

Your analogy doesn't make sense:

Women don't see the soap opera men naked, they don't see the men in the erotica books naked either BUT men do see strippers somewhat if not fully naked and men do see women in pornagraphy naked.

Women also get stimulated by the naked body of a male, but we don't turn into vicious pigs.

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Women watching soap operas and romance novels for the very same reasons men go to strip clubs when you compensate for how each gender responds to stimulai.


Would I go to a strip club? Yes... I have and do from time to time... In fact I sometimes bring my wife along too, I just don't have the free time to do it frequently.

And your comment about men at stip clubs turning into viscious pigs shows your bias here, and your obvious misconceptions... incidently, ever see women at a male stip club? They are 20 times worse than men at any mens club.

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Originally Posted by blingaru

I agree that it is very disrespectful. If you're a single guy, go nuts, who cares, you have no one to hurt. But if your girlfriend or wife is hurt or offended by strip clubs, there is absolutely no reason why you need to go and inflict that hurt on her. Whether the man sees it or not, it is a sign of disrespect to the one he's committed to.

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If a woman is that insecure... then that's her problem to deal with, not mine. Its controlling behaviour to demand what your significant other does for recreation assuming they aren't sleeping with their hobby.

I can go to strip clubs when I want... alone or with my wife, I even have some female friends that are nothing BUT friends... and know what... my wife isn't all paranoid and scizo about it because she knows exactly where she stands in my life... and doesn't spend her time worrying about something that isn't happening.

In other words my wife suffers from no lack of self esteme. In fact she ozzes self esteme.

I don't feel it's a self esteem issue. You could be the most confidant person in the world and still find strip clubs to be offensive. You could also have the self esteem of a floor mat and be totally fine with them. It's not a simple black and white issue. If a person is offended and disrespected by racial jokes, is it "controlling" to ask them to stop making those jokes because it's disrespectful? Definitely not.

Wait... so now strip clubs are equal to a racial joke?

Honey--I know women who have worked in strip clubs. It's a JOB, and one that pays a LOT more than most jobs you can get without a master's degree.

If you don't like them, then don't go. But don't project MORALITY (for that's what it is--it offends your MORALS, not your sense of discrimination) onto everyone else.

I think that drinking and driving is waaaaaay worse than strip clubs. However, I don't think bars should be shut down simply because there are morons out there that are idiots and drink and drive.

Not sure how much more ill volley back and forth... personally I think the less "external" stim you use outside of your partner, the better. Fewer "crutches"... but some people, like on the boards here, do a great job of being able to focus on their lover while using other aids and interests... for other couples, it just doesn't work well. But I won't label most activities as right or wrong just because I don't do them.

That said... explain the difference between a naked woman in a movie and a naked woman on stage... a person could rent or buy or probably download explicit media about a porn star coming soon to a stage near you.

Leave porn alone... look at any actress who takes her clothes off in any movie. Most of the time, its eye candy. Most of the time, it isn't crucial to the script. So... boycott all movies with nudity that isn't crucial to the storyline? If no, why not? Any man who finds women attractive will respond to that visual stim with a similar primal urge.

Is it the distance? A dancer on stage being in the same room... is that the line?

Time to ban bikinis from beaches... cause a good number of them don't leave much to the imagination when wet.

I'm not sure why you're taking such offense to what I said. I don't recall comparing strip clubs to anything immoral. My point above and all along has been that some people are offended by them and some are not. You are not and that's fine. Some people are, and that's fine too. If someone finds something offensive and disrespectful, it is their right to feel that way. A loving partner should be supportive of that. If he/she is not, then they aren't the right partner.

Most people who write in here with concerns about strip clubs or porn often include something like "why am i not enough"... which does play into self esteem.

Some might say "it is just disgusting and i wont accept it"... but many do have the "why does he seem to want more than me" question quite commonly.

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Originally Posted by blingaru

My point above and all along has been that some people are offended by them and some are not...

If someone finds something offensive and disrespectful, it is their right to feel that way. A loving partner should be supportive of that. If he/she is not, then they aren't the right partner.

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I agree with much of this, with some wiggle room. Like I said, I think there are battles that you choose to fight or choose to walk away. I'm "supportive" of my partners preferences and have no regrets about that...

What one cannot do is find "fault" in a partner and stay with them and continue to complain. At some point you choose to stay and not be a victim... so if the OP'er said "im with a great guy but he goes to clubs"... at some point she chooses to accept it or walk.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

i agree with much of this, with some wiggle room. like i said, i think there are battles that you choose to fight or choose to walk away. im "supportive" of my partners preferences and have no regrets about that...

what one cannot do is find "fault" in a partner and stay with them and continue to complain. at some point you choose to stay and not be a victim... so if the OP'er said "im with a great guy but he goes to clubs"... at some point she chooses to accept it or walk.

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I absolutely agree with you. Ultimately, I think we need to find partners that fulfill us in all ways. If you are the type that finds strip clubs disrespectful, then you need a partner that shares those values. If your spouse frequents them and doesn't seem to care how you feel about it, then that's not a healthy relationship. Likewise, if you like to frequent those places and your partner does to, more power to you. I think that different people have very different perceptions about what is cheating, or what is disrespectful. There is going to be a lot of variance on these issues... we need partners that are sensitive to these feelings.