I have a problem with men looking at other women while in a relationship, fantasizing about other women, etc. I have made peace with the fact that I have a problem accepting a man who does these things. The problem is, I want him to be honest with me, because I feel I have a right to know what I am getting into. I mean, if it’s a deal breaker for me, then petty or not, I should be able to decide that. I want the truth without alienating him. The problem, apparently (no offense to men) is most if not all men do it. So, if it’s a deal breaker for me, I am pretty much screwed. So then, I have to ask myself, how can I get past this? How can I accept this?

Truthfully I can’t. Here is why:

I don’t look or fantasize about other people, when he does it makes me lose respect and my sex appeal toward him diminishes thus our sex life is likely to be worse and so does the overall situation. Nothing is sexier then knowing the person you are with desires you not other people.

I am not single, so why would I shop? If I needed a TV and bought one then I don’t bother shopping for anymore TV’s. To me it’s just a gateway of possibilities.

That is offensive to me because that’s like saying that he feels this is the best he can do with his self esteem and is settling but is not satisfied, I feel if he were, then no matter good looking another women is I would have his attention. She would be just another person to him, not an attractive person per se.

I want the truth, but the truth does cause these problems. So, I do alienate him even against my own wishes. If I live in denial and don’t ask I will be way worse off. I would actually be paranoid. It’s a no win situation for me.

I hear men and women say “its normal” yet I don’t do it. They say “unless he acts on it you shouldn’t care” but to me after the offense it’s like you might as well have, in fact I would almost prefer a man to cheat then look as odd as that may sound. It may remind him how foolish he is and he would stop hurting me for his own selfish purposes.

He says if I stared at some guy or was looking it wouldn’t bother him. That pisses me off more. It’s like I am bazaar for not understanding this crude offense.

I am not a prude, I am freaky, but I don’t like to feel badly about myself. In fact, I am more apt to become less sexually open once I feel I am not adequate. I have even tried harder when I think he was into someone else, and it does not stop it, so I have on incentive. If anything, I get angry because I feel like I am doing all the trying. After all, if there is something he wants, why shouldn’t he express that himself?

No matter good I look, it won't stop him there is always someone better then me.

It's embarrassing to me. Other women see it and look at me like I have failed somehow. Or even think it's funny at my expense. Some women purposely try to get his attention just to get at me. How am I supposed to deal with that? I ignore them, but become resentful towards him for being so oblivious about it.

Sex and anything related to it is deeply emotional for me, while it may not be for men, how can I even value it or continue to want it with him or any man if my feelings are just easily dismissed like this?


I am aware that I am not the best looking person in the world but I refuse to be second best to someone he does not even lay down with. He says it’s not that big of a deal, and while I don’t want to change him, on principle it pisses me off that something that does not matter does not stop happening. If it weren't that big of a deal, I shouldn't have to ask, he should want to keep from hurting me.

Mixed feelings here. In the end, both sides need to be able to come together and have some balance. You need to let him be a living, breathing man, and he needs to respect your feelings on this as best he can.

I have a beautiful, faithful wife who can be a flirt from time to time. So if we are at the bar with a group, and some young buck is buying her drinks and getting beat by her in pool, well OK then. She's having fun. She's getting attention. If he crosses a line, ill go over and introduce myself. If he takes offense, well... then it'll get ugly.

I know what you are saying... and I can't tell you that you are wrong for feeling this way... but unless he is really being a pig about it, you know this is largely a self-esteem issue on your side. Yes, a man should be respectful of his partners feelings. Yes, some men are really, really clueless about how blatent their gawking is.

But... it is a normal reaction for a man, or woman, to notice another of the opposite sex. Its just the truth.

And instead of accepting this and being comfortable, even complimented by the fact that he's true to you, despite he will see other attractive women for the rest of his life, its now turning into a problem.

My wife is going on a 4 day business trip tomorrow. I know a few of the people at the conference were there the last time, when id gone with her, and theyd flirted. She's going to get attention, she's going to even be propositioned, perhaps. I trust in her and I believe all the attention in the world isn't going to make her break her vows.

And I just don't see how her talking to a man she finds attractive is the worst thing in the world. Locks keep honest people out. Vows keep honest people in check from time to time. The best cheaters will do it and you will never know. If his eyes drift for a moment, cut him some slack. He's still with you.

So... again, unless he's being a real pig about it, it sounds like this is a self esteem issue that is now being transferred into the relationship. He isn't cheating. And he didn't become asexual the minute he met you.

Again... I take a different tack. I find a lot of pride and happiness in knowing my partner is looked at by others, and can look at other men she finds attractive, and still be faithful and come home to me. She knows I'm going to see women I find attractive, and still, I sleep only in her bed.

That's a big deal. And not a problem in my mind.

Some will agree with me... others won't.

Thank you for your response. I am trying to be receptive, but I still can't shake it. I mean, I realize it's likely me, but his looking does not help that at all. I didn't assume he'd be asexual, just as I not, yet I don't look. I am to focused on whatever it is I am doing to even notice. I beleve it he were giving me the same attention he once was I wouldn't be so bothered or jealous now. If women were looking at him, that's one thing, but him looking at other women to me still comes off like I am old news. I can even understand flirting because that's a self esteem boster, so long as the most important person in the world is not ignored or it is not done purposely when they are not around or some such to hide it.

We can address the issue of men looking at women independently, but this relationship has a lot of other issues at play here... this from last year...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marria...tml#post383528

***EDITED***

*** please note her follow-up... her current relationship is with another man, but these issues might still be at play emotionally***

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Originally Posted by kp2171

we can address the issue of men looking at women independently, but this relationship has a lot of other issues at play here...

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/marria...tml#post383528

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This is no longer the same relationship. Given everyone's advice and my need for clarity in my life I have moved on. So, this is someone I am dating. I am currently legally separated.

Thanks for the follow-up and clarification...

You seemed to feel beat up emotionally in that relationship, and I'm guessing some of that is what's at play here... having been in a relationship with a person who was disengaged and having lost that intimacy before. Certainly seems like reason for having issues with trust or self esteem.

IT still has bearing on your self-esteem issues, whether it's the same relationship.

All men look, all that I know of, it has to do with human nature and the way men are wired, they are very visual people who get sexual excietement from the phsycial often.

It if the faithfulness, looking does not mean touching or acting upon it.
To be honest at a concert last night, there was a girl in shorts so short I saw less of my first wife until we were married. I may look, even a slight day dream but that is it.

As for as telling the lady in their life, first a man looks so many times a day, I doubt he could remember most and would less confess them.
It is obvoius you say that it turns you off to know, so you want him to confess, so you can get mad at him, I am sorry but that would be slightly stupid for the man?

If you are looking for a man who will not look, find someone legally blind, that is about the only way it is going to happen.
Looking does not mean he is not the best true person you will ever have.

I don't mean this wrong but you are asking for too much and getting way to worried about it. I would say that there has been issues in your life that is causing these feelings, and perhaps you need to try and deal with your own feelings or you will never find a man you can be happy with

I think you just confirmed everything that bothers me. I just feel very simply, if a man or women can't stop doing something that they know hurts someone they claim to love then selfishness is more important by a long shot. In that case, why would I want to sacrifice for someone who is not willing to do so for me? The fact that you say you the love the women your with but you fantasize about someone else makes me think you would, if you could and not get caught. You don't because your afraid you'll get caught, not because your satisified. Is that not right? If your not satisfied, why do you bother with a relationship? Why not just be a free man?

Ah, forget it. If it's "too much to ask" someone to not do something they claim does not matter, then I would be better off alone I guess.

Well I will be honest and frank, if you demand this in a man, you will be alone. Or find a man who hides it and lies about it ( which is worst)

But no, it does not mean they would if they get the chance, because men get the chance almost everyday of their life if they want to. With people from work, girls they meet and so on.

This is merely human nature and how men are wired.

Seriously, honey... you need to talk to a counselor.

I would think that asking a man not to look, not to "shop" for a new woman is like telling you that you don't NEED new clothes, you have a whole closetful---why can't you just wear THOSE until they wear out?

Even if you like ALL of your clothes, and wouldn't trade them for a shopping spree at Sak's--Does that mean you'd NEVER go window shopping again, just because your man never EVER wants you to look at clothes again? Could you seriously do that?

Or if he told you that he NEVER wanted you to take more than 5 minutes to get ready to go anywhere--including shower--could you, would you want to do that?

The problem is YOUR self-esteem. It's not that a guy looks. All guys look. Hell, I'm female, and married 7 years, and together with my husband for 12 years. I STILL occasionally see a guy that makes my jaw drop and my eyes pop. Not that I would trade my husband for anything (ask anyone, I have the World's Best Husband (TM)), but god, sometimes you just can't help noticing!

If YOU don't EVER notice members of the opposite sex when you're in a relationship, then I'd have to say that something is wrong with you. Either you're not as in touch with your sexuality, or you're deliberately putting on blinders, or you're lying to yourself--I know a TON of happily married people, both male and female, that look when the right "platter", if you will, is placed in front of them.

That doesn't think they'd even DREAM of cheating--it just means that they've noticed someone they're sexually attracted to. Period. End of the line, moving on with the day.

Asking someone to stop drinking because it bothers you AND is a health risk is one thing. Same with smoking, exercising, whatever.

But to ask someone to stop looking at half of the world's population because they happen to be female--you're just crazy.

Please understand we are not attacking you, but all feel you need some help and counseling to help you deal with the issues in your life that makes you feel this way.

Please under stand normally I am very to the "right" on most questions and am close to the most prude member looking at more strict religious veiw points. But I have to agree with the other posters what you are asking for is just not humanly possible.

You want someone who will not look but if they did they have to confess it, knowing it you will go off on them, If you could be open and accepting of their human weakness they may tell you, I even made a joke about that girl last night, told my wife you could tell if she was a real blonde or not by the way she was dressed.

Couples have to admit their faults and love each other regardless of those faults But I will go with the our expert here looking is a normal human behavior, not as often in women as men, but men will have them mind wonder to something sexual many times a hour if not more

But you really really need some help working on your problem, since your goal is not realistic by any means.

We want you to be happy and find happyness with a person who loves you

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

The fact that you say you the love the women your with but you fantasize about someone else makes me think you would, if you could and not get caught. You don't b/c your afraid you'll get caught, not b/c your satisified.

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You and I are on the same planet, different worlds.

I'm in a ten year, monogamous relationship with a loving woman, in an intimate relationship, with open communication.

I don't live my relationship in fear. And please, don't tell me I'm not satisfied.

I have balance in my life and in my love, and it's a great place to be.

I hope you can find the same balance, and know the kind of love I know.

Thanks everyone for your advice. If anything I needed to know if I am crazy or not. I am not offended, because I don’t necessarily want someone to convince me that I am right. From what I understand everyone person in the world is actually this way and I am understanding of the fact that this means I likely can not get along with anyone. This is my problem and no need to torment someone in a relationship with it. There is nothing about hearing how the man I would be with would want to be intimate with someone else that makes me want to even bother trying. I doubt seriously that I could even bother looking that person in the face ever again.

Please don’t misunderstand. I hurt silently. I am not one of this women who yells, throws things or beats her man up over it. I simply ask. Understanding all this makes me realize I’d better off just using my energy for better pursuits. I am very happy to know that everyone else is happy and accepting of this and it hurts them in no way. I can only aspire to such a thing. I am not capable of such I think because that’s just not how my personality is. I just don’t believe that a person is satisfied if they feel this way. Apparently I am wrong but I can’t bridge the cap. I am somewhat resentful to think that I should go to a counselor to “fix me” or merely conform me. It’s just a no win and I am responsible for that.

Its all about self esteme...

Guys look... women look... there is a huge leap between looking and chasing. It has nothing to do with respect if all that happens is a glance.

If they chose to be with you that speaks volumes.

Heck wife even points out the women that stand out to me, she knows what I like and isn't afraid to point them out to me. And believe me she sees them before I do many times.

When you come to understand human nature and know that partners aren't property you can keep on a short leash then you won't need counseling and you will be far happier. And yes this applies to both men and to women.

Looking is one thing... but flirting or chasing is another totally different thing. No harm ever comes from a glance... if that's all the further it goes.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

I am somewhat resentful to think that I should go to a counselor to “fix me” or merely conform me. It's just a no win and I am responsible for that.

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Having been to a counselor once some years ago to help with depression that was affecting a relationship, I can tell you it sounds like a pain in the arse, and even insulting to be told to go... walking in I hated the idea. Walking out, I was glad I went.

And I'm not a touchy, feely guy. Id rather suck things up and "deal" with them myself. Counseling isn't about converting you to some other person... its about talking to a "neutral" party about what you feel you are struggling with and finding ways to possibly modify your behavior or to find ways to be at peace with your behavior or feelings.

Walking out of a session, I was the same person... just had a few ideas about how to deal with a few things better. So if someone mentions this, it isn't about you being broken... its about helping you get through the noise, such as issues with your marriage, in a manner that can be faster and more effective than just dealing with it yourself.

Like I said... for as much as I like helping people, I hate asking for help... but just a few sessions talking to someone helped me deal with some issues I was struggling with. I was still the same person walking out... just had a different perspective about a few things that helped.

Its not that much different than coming here for advice, except its with professional who can better address any issues you want to talk about.

Thanks. I suppose I have felt like I have compromised on so much in my life that this was one of those thoings I don't feel like I should "have to". I realize it's not helping me. I am not against counseling. I have gone before. I suppose at some point I will have to go again. It is a lot about pride at this point. I have to be able to wrap my head around the idea that I'm working through this, not being conformed in some way. I have a lot of anger. Most of my anger comes from feeling like I have to be the one to do all of the work. I suppose right now I have this bad attitude that someone should fulfill my demands for once, but obivously that's not going to work.

"I hear men and women say “its normal” yet I don't do it."

I don't think that means you're "abnormal". Just "uncommon". I think "common" might be a better way to describe looking at other people, than a loaded word like "normal".

By all means, it would be great for you to work on being more secure and more able to trust (and to be able to weather being hurt some) in relationships... But who knows -there maybe be men out there who don't fantasize or look at other women when they're in a monogamous relationship -but it's just very uncommon if so, so you probably shouldn't /expect/ that... But also know it's okay to have some unusual or quirky preferences for characteristics you'd love to find in a mate -most people do...

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

Ah, forget it. If it's "too much to ask" someone to not do something they claim does not matter, then I would be better off alone I guess.

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Umm.. . that kind reminds me of "your breathing too loud . . stop"
I don't mean to be mean, but you HAVE to get over it!! Maybe what you need is to not get into a relationship until your other one is fully divorced.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

I have a lot of anger. Most of my anger comes from feeling like I have to be the one to do all of the work. I suppose right now I have this bad attitude that someone should fulfill my demands for once, but obivously that's not going to work.

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I've been there... done the heavy lifting when a previous partner wasn't, so I do empathize. It is no fun at all.

You'll still need balance in the end, with both sides taking the weight... but maybe you are right... maybe you aren't willing to do the work it takes right now...

If it isn't a good fit, you don't need to force it... even if some of the issues are things we call "no big deal".

You get the respect you demand, and sometimes not even that. So... if he isn't enough of a match that you feel like you are working too hard, or you are too distracted with the anger and frustration, maybe it is time to step back.

You have come to this relationship with so much unresolved "baggage" that you are unable to have a real relationship with this guy... you are a controlling person, a very unpleasant quality, not a spontaneous girl enjoying life and men.

Time to go to therapy with a "good" therapist and get all your negative feelings and history out in the open and talk it over. Life is no way perfect, and it never will be!! We do have to know how to live in an imperfect world, though, with the least amount of suffering. :)

I think you will surprise yourself at the amount of progress you can make in dealing with this problem. :):):)

Good Luck in 2008!

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Originally Posted by Choux

You have come to this relationship with so much unresolved "baggage" that you are unable to have a real relationship with this guy.... you are a controlling person, a very unpleasant quality, not a spontaneous girl enjoying life and men.

Time to go to therapy with a "good" therapist and get all your negative feelings and history out in the open and talk it over. Life is no way perfect, and it never will be!!! We do have to know how to live in an imperfect world, though, with the least amount of suffering. :)

I think you will surprise yourself at the amount of progress you can make in dealing with this problem. :):):)

Good Luck in 2008!

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I am very spontaneous actually. Again, I am not a prude, but I can't digest that enjoying men means enjoying his appreciation of someone I look nothing like. I appreciate all your perspectives, but to deny that there is some need to protect what's supposed to be yours in a relationship is a bit like denial. I am not an extremist. I don't cover anyone's eye up. I am simply asking what makes it so simple for some people to not care and for others not so much, not an attack on my character. I have a very hard time believing that everyone on here absolutely adores everything about themselves and has no self doubts, that you don't mind it when your mate ogles someone ten times better then you, and that it does anything for your sexuality when they do. Thanks for the well wishes.

Actually, I have a LOT of self-doubts. Ask anyone that knows me personally--I put myself down pretty often. I really do NOT see myself as attractive as people say I am.

That being said--I don't care HOW hot she is, I know I am as good as any woman my husband is looking at.

Know how I know that? I completely trust my husband. I *trust* that when he says I'm beautiful, he means that I really am, at least in his eyes. When he says that I'm sexy, and turn him on--I *trust* that he means it. When I see him looking at a woman that has features I don't, if that makes me depressed, I can express that to him, and he tells me all the things that *I* have that *she* doesn't.

I'm not a skinny young 20 year old anymore. I'm 33, I have gray hairs starting, I'm a size 16, I have stretch marks from a previous pregnancy, I'm short--I'll NEVER be a model, in other words. Hell, I can't even dress stylishly, and I refuse to spend more than 5 minutes doing my hair, and makeup confuses me.

So what?

I have a killer smile. I have intelligence and wit, both more valued by men with decent priorities than good looks are. I'm a good friend, and a good listener, and I have a good sense of humor. I'm willing to drop serious grown up stuff like cleaning and balancing the checkbook to have a snowball fight or a pillow fight or neck on the couch or whatever. I'll never look like that skinny little girl in the half shirt and shorter than short shorts at the mall that my husband got caught looking at last week--but his comment about her when I elbowed him was that he was wondering how anyone would want to go to bed with someone that had NO curves.

So... don't assume that guys are looking at other women and lusting after them. And have some faith that the guy you're with is with YOU for a reason, that there's something about YOU that he values more than looks. You have to TRUST and BELIEVE that there is something incredibly *Better* about you that your guy is with YOU, and not one of those women that is, in your words "ten times better".

The fact that you have so little belief in your OWN qualities is what has us concerned about you. The fact that you don't trust that the guy you're with wants to be with YOU.

How do you know he's not looking at her and thinking that YOUR legs are better,or that YOU have prettier eyes, or that while she has big breasts, YOURS are perkier?

The fact that you don't TRUST your man is a HUGE concern. I know for a fact that while my husband may look and wonder what her breasts look like bare for 20 seconds... but then he starts thinking about MY breasts and wants to go home and play.

So does everyone look? I don't know. I know I don't go out looking for guys to ogle, but every now and then there's a guy that I notice, either because he's dressed so well (or so horribly!) or because of the way he carries himself or because he's so tall or because he has great eyes, or whatever. It's like catching a sunset that just holds you frozen for a second, or seeing a rainbow, or whatever. I'd like to think I notice the beauty in people in general.

That doesn't mean I want to sleep with them!

I've been caught looking at 80 year old men, because they hold themselves so well that age seems to disappear. I've stopped and stared at small children because their very innocence seems to glow, and holds my heart. I've noticed breathtaking women in their prime and felt jealousy, yes, but also awe for their smile, their stride, their confidence. ALL people are beautiful. It's just that our society makes it so that it's not "okay" for men to notice that beauty in other men, or in children, without being labelled perverted.

So is it okay to disrespectfully stare? Of course not. But it's not okay for ANY person to do that to any other person. You don't stare at disabled people, or really beautiful people or really ugly people or really short people, or people with 2 heads. It's rude regardless, both to the person you're staring at and any company you're with.

But not noticing what we we find to be beautiful is just silly, whether that's a woman, a man, a waterfall, a snowdrop after a long winter, lights reflected on water, a newborn baby. And noticing beauty has nothing to do with lusting after it.

Ok, I am old, fat, limp, blind in one eye and those are some of my good qualities, but quess what, I am happy with myself, I can look in the mirror and say I love WHO I am, not any one thing about myself but I am happy with the me I am. So I have a wife other men look at, she is 10 years younger, a previous college cheer leader and a professional musican, men turn to look at her walking down the street, and I say hey great,

Thanks Synnen and Fr_chuck that's a really good take on things. I wish I had half the confidence you have, just not there yet. It's not that I don't trust that he wants to be with me, I suppose I feel that some people want all that they can have, but accept what they get. I hate that. I feel like, people aren't satisfied. That they take what the best is of what if offered to them. I suppose what I am talking about is lust versus observing, one can not prove such a thing. I suppose it's the classic fear of the unknown. I will certianly think on your thoughts for a long time, you have been an inspiration. I have a fear of this blind trust thing, and certainly will need to sort through a lot.


WikiAnswers - Is it normal for your mate to look at other women and then deny looking

Other takes

You think it's possible maybe it's like making fun of yourself, perhaps she is trying to beat you to it?

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Its all about self esteme....

Guys look.....women look.....there is a huge leap between looking and chasing. It has nothing to do with respect if all that happens is a glance.

If they chose to be with you that speaks volumes.

Heck wife even points out the women that stand out to me, she knows what I like and isn't affraid to point them out to me. And believe me she sees them before i do many times.

When you come to understand human nature and know that partners aren't property you can keep on a short leash then you won't need councelling and you will be far happier. And yes this applies to both men and to women.

Looking is one thing.......but flirting or chasing is another totally different thing. No harm ever comes from a glance.....if thats all the further it goes.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

You think it's possible maybe it's like making fun of yourself, perhaps she is trying to beat you to it?

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No, Like Synnen has said, she has self confidence and knows I picked her to be with. She knows who I'm going home with. She also knows I don't flirt with other women as well.

Its not all about physical attributes, but the entire package. My wife knows a lot of outstanding beauties are shallow and more than a bit conceited. Something she knows puts me off.

My wife doesn't have big boobs, she isn't tall, but then again she knows I don't dislike any of those attributes. She also knows some of the women I have previously dated and knows why I picked her over them. And yes some of them had physical features my wife wishes she had, like big boobs. Or more of a pronounced hourglass figure than she has.

I've never made fun of her for being short or having small boobs for example. There is no beating me to the punch because its not something I ever joked about.

But then like I said, she does have pretty decent self esteme and knows she can point out an outstanding woman or woman with outstanding features and know I'm not going to sneak off and hit up on that woman.

It's that part that I think is the key to it all. My wife knows me... and trusts me.

Certainly you know her best. I was looking at it from the perspective that if I pointed out something like that to someone, it would be because I don't have those attributes, and feel very badly about it and pointing it out would be my way of being able to give something I can't give. It's sad actually. I mean, I doubt seriously a guy would say "Honey, check out the pecs on that one" you know?

I mean, what your saying is specific to your relationship so I may not understand it, just inquiring so that I could. I am saying, I have known people to do it for that reason. Much like when a person is insecure about something like being overweight, they will often times make fun of it before someone else will because it gives them a sense of control in the situation. I took it like that, "Hey honey check her out" to be something like 'I don't look anything like her and I don't want him to make me feel bad by doing a 180 so if I point it out it's like he's looking because I asked him to" having a sense of control over the situation. I always say things like "she's hot" and he goes on his peaceful way, deep down inside I hate it, the whole situation, but if I complain well, it won't resolve anything. it does make me feel like my feelings don't matter though and that builds resentment.

Everyone keeps bringing up trust and that's not it, I don't have trust issues. I trust that he likes to be comfortable, I trust that it is human nature to stick with what your comfortable with. I trust all of you will go home to the same person every nite, but it does not mean you wouldn't want some one on one time if you could with someone else. FR-Chuck post "To be honest at a concert last night, there was a girl in shorts so short I saw less of my first wife until we were married. I may look, even a slight day dream but that is it."

People might like steak but they may feel they can only afford a burger. In other words, just because he brings themself "home to me every night" is not much of an honor if they are doing it b/c they aren't confident enough to have a steak, per se. I once asked a boyfriend who was gawking at a chic casually why he didn't pursue someone like that if that was what he was into, he had said "because no women who looks like that would want me" that told me that I wasn't as great as they were to him, but that he was comfortable with someone "at my level". So, when everyone points out *trust* I am sure in some cases that is very true, and in others it more about the mate's level of confidence for why they choose to be with their mate, not that they don't wish for more. This is the distinction I am sorting out right now. But having all this discussion is helping me sort through all that.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

No, Like Synnen has said, she has self confidence and knows I picked her to be with. She knows who I'm going home with. She also knows I don't flirt with other women as well.

Its not all about physical attributes, but the entire package. My wife knows a lot of outstanding beauties are shallow and more than a bit concieted. Something she knows puts me off.

My wife doesn't have big boobs, she isn't tall, but then again she knows I don't dislike any of those attributes. She also knows some of the women I have previously dated and knows why I picked her over them. And yes some of them had physical features my wife wishes she had, like big boobs. Or more of a pronounced hourglass figure than she has.

I've never made fun of her for being short or having small boobs for example. There is no beating me to the punch because its not something I ever joked about.

But then like I said, she does have pretty decent self esteme and knows she can point out an outstanding woman or woman with outstanding features and know I'm not going to sneak off and hit up on that woman.

Its that part that I think is the key to it all. My wife knows me.....and trusts me.

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Would I love to spend one night with Sean Connery or Johnny Depp or John Cusack? Sure--but as well as being eye-candy, those men seem like they'd be incredibly interesting to TALK to.

Look, I don't know your age, but that might be a big part of it. I seem to remember going through some of the feelings you are when I was in my early 20s--wondering why a guy would choose ME, when he could have HER---or wondering if a guy was just settling with me because he didn't think he COULD get her.

It really is self-confidence. It's knowing that I'm a worthwhile human being, a good woman, and that even though I'm married, I've had guys tell me "If you weren't married, you would be PERFECT for me".

YOU have to believe it though. This is my concern for you--not that you have trust issues with men, but that you have trust issues with YOURSELF. You don't believe in yourself, you don't think you're attractive or "as good as" other women.

Baloney.

From the conversation we've been having, you're intelligent, thoughtful, and nice. I have no idea what you look like, but I don't really care. If we were having this conversation in person, I would probably have a pretty good time with you over coffee, which could easily develop into a friendship.

The only thing is--I don't let my friends put themselves down. If they don't have the confidence to believe I want to hang out with them because I like them, and constantly doubt my affection---well, I get frustrated with that pretty fast, and then I don't want to hang out with them as much, because I end up being their therapist and not their friend.

Honey--you NEED to have confidence in yourself. You need to TRULY believe that you're worth having, and that any man with a brain would want to hang out with you. YOU need to believe it.

Until you believe in yourself, you're always going to doubt your partner.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

Certainly you know her best. I was looking at it from the perspective that if I pointed out something like that to someone, it would be because I don't have those attributes, and feel very badly about it and pointing it out would be my way of being able to give something I can't give. It's sad actually. I mean, I doubt seriously a guy would say "Honey, check out the pecs on that one" you know?

I mean, what your saying is specific to your relationship so I may not understand it, just inquiring so that I could. I am saying, I have known people to do it for that reason. Much like when a person is insecure about something like being overweight, they will often times make fun of it before someone else will because it gives them a sense of control in the situation. I took it like that, "Hey honey check her out" to be something like 'I don't look anything like her and I don't want him to make me feel bad by doing a 180 so if I point it out it's like he's looking b/c I asked him to" having a sense of control over the situation. I always say things like "she's hot" and he goes on his peaceful way, deep down inside I hate it, the whole situation, but if I complain well, it won't resolve anything. it does make me feel like my feelings don't matter though and that builds resentment.

Everyone keeps bringing up trust and that's not it, I don't have trust issues. I trust that he likes to be comfortable, I trust that it is human nature to stick with what your comfortable with. I trust all of you will go home to the same person every nite, but it does not mean you wouldn't want some one on one time if you could with someone else. FR-Chuck post "To be honest at a concert last night, there was a girl in shorts so short I saw less of my first wife until we were married. I may look, even a slight day dream but that is it."

People might like steak but they may feel they can only afford a burger. In other words, just because he brings themself "home to me every nite" is not much of an honor if they are doing it b/c they aren't confident enough to have a steak, per se. I once asked a boyfriend who was gawking at a chic casually why he didn't pursue someone like that if that was what he was into, he had said "because no women who looks like that would want me" that told me that I wasn't as great as they were to him, but that he was comfortable with someone "at my level". So, when everyone points out *trust* I am sure in some cases that is very true, and in others it more about the mate's level of confidence for why they choose to be with their mate, not that they don't wish for more. This is the distinction I am sorting out right now. But having all this discussion is helping me sort through all that.

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Its normal for a guy to look at a woman and even to thinks damn that looks good. But that does not equate to him sneaking out to get some.

If we wanted to we could, but most of us don't. Why, respect for our wives. The fact it wouldn't be fair to them to repay faithfulness with infidelity. I know that might sound a little off but I'm speaking in guy terms. THere is little I wouldn't do for my wife.

I could be knocking the bottom out of a lot of women if I was that type of guy. There certainly are enough willing women out there. But like I said, being able to do something doesn't equal actually doing it. Its not fair to my wife, and its not the right thing to do.

Does my wife wish she had big ones... certainly... but she knows I like a nice shape with nice perky nipples, a bit on the larger side, features she does have. She will be quick to point out women that she sees going braless that fit that bill just as quick... and like I mentioned, she see's them before I do many times. Same goes for outstanding body features as well.

She also knows that we are a pretty good match in the sack and that I had left a lot of really attractive women over any number of personality issues and sexual hangups they had. She knows that the odds are against me finding another that would mesh so well as we do. In other words while she knows from a distance that grass on the other side of the fence may look great, but the closer you get you start to see all the weeds etc.

Oh she will point out some guys she finds attractive as well. Not that its my thing as it isn't but I don't get offended either. Hell she has enough of her own quirks I know many guys wouldn't deal with. Besides fooling around isn't in her nature. She's an all or nothing type...

I think what I am discussing the difference of lust versus looking. So my use of the word looking probably wasn't as accurate as I could have explained it. To me, if a person, man or women is thinking "god, that looks good, wish I could hit that" then there is no intimacy, even if they aren't hitting it, they wish they could there is not much integrity there to say "but I don't" but you wish you could. We're not talking about relationships with other people, we're talking about the desire for someone.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Its normal for a guy to look at a woman and even to thinks damn that looks good. But that does not equate to him sneaking out to get some.

If we wanted to we could, but most of us don't. Why, respect for our wives. The fact it wouldn't be fair to them to repay faithfulness with infidelity. I know that might sound a little off but I'm speaking in guy terms. THere is little I wouldn't do for my wife.

I could be knocking the bottom out of a lot of women if I was that type of guy. There certainly are enough willing women out there. But like I said, being able to do something doesn't equal actually doing it. Its not fair to my wife, and its not the right thing to do.

Does my wife wish she had big ones...certainly...but she knows I like a nice shape with nice perky nipples, a bit on the larger side, features she does have. She will be quick to point out women that she sees going braless that fit that bill just as quick....and like I mentioned, she see's them before I do many times. Same goes for outstanding body features as well.

She also knows that we are a pretty good match in the sack and that I had left a lot of really attractive women over any number of personality issues adn sexual hangups they had. She knows that the odds are against me finding another that would mesh so well as we do. In other words while she knows from a distance that grass on the other side of the fence may look great, but the closer you get you start to see all the weeds etc.

Oh she will point out some guys she finds attractive as well. Not that its my thing as it isn't but I don't get offended either. Hell she has enough of her own quirks I know many guys wouldn't deal with. Besides fooling around isn't in her nature. She's an all or nothing type....

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I think all people are "allowed" some primal instinct response, and I don't think it makes that person, or their relationship less intimate or lacking integrity.

You and I are simply not going to agree... and I'm not trying to make you cross over to my side.

But, again, don't think for one moment that my wife hasn't felt some strong attraction toward a man other than me somewhere along the way. Now... for the most part, if I see a woman I find attractive my heart might race a little, there isn't a primal feeling that isn't "gee i wish i could hit that right now... if i only wasnt married" but it isn't completely asexual either. And then its over.

So... if my partner reads an erotic novel and then self stimulates, does that mean our relationship has no integrity? If I see a woman I find attractive and experience a rush, something that is like a reflex, that means my relationship is grounded in lies or oppression?

We just aren't going to see eye to eye, and that's OK.

My cousin takes it one step further. He and his wife have "top 5" lists that they share... whod be the top five people you'd be with if you weren't in the marriage. They are 15 years into a solid marriage, two kids, a house, and a future that I think is pretty darn good.

So, if my wife sees a guy at the gym and thinks "i wonder what itd be like to run by fingers over his abs"... OK. I'm fine with that. I accept that much of that response can be a human condition. Some people have self control, some are idiots about it.

But the integrity of my marriage isn't faulty. The foundation of my relationship isn't cracked. The connection we have isn't about oppression and deceit. Its about two people who are grounded in reality and who see eye to eye on many issues, including sexuality, sensuality, and what it mean to be a sexual being in a monogamous, happy relationship.

But that doesn't mean you can't find someone who is wired more like you than me. Just means we aren't wired the same... that's all.

I agree with you. I mean, some people have a things for a particular physical attribute, some people have a thing for a certain personality type. I think it turns out that for me this is my one thing, that really does it for me. That does not mean that you or any of the majority of the free world are wrong, or even that I am I guess. I suppose it's just "a thing" of mine. I mean, there are people not willing to date someone who is outside of a specific qualification they may have, that's there right even if it's silly. I think the point of all this discussion has been to sort all that out.

Not to convert me to the other side, or visa vera, but just to gain clarity on it's my "one of those things". I may be damaged, I may not be. Honestly, I think I have been like this my whole life. I agree that the likelihood of finding someone who feels this way is slim to none. I have two choices then, deal with it or find that person. I am aware of that. I will ponder these thoughts and suggestions for some time as it is not my desire to feel this way I assure you.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

i think all people are "allowed" some primal instinct response, and i dont think it makes that person, or their relationship less intimate or lacking integrity.

you and i are simply not going to agree... and im not trying to make you cross over to my side.

but, again, dont think for one moment that my wife hasnt felt some strong attraction toward a man other than me somewhere along the way. now... for the most part, if i see a woman i find attractive my heart might race a little, there isnt a primal feeling that isnt "gee i wish i could hit that right now... if i only wasnt married" but it isnt completely asexual either. and then its over.

so... if my partner reads an erotic novel and then self stimulates, does that mean our relationship has no integrity? if i see a woman i find attractive and experience a rush, something that is like a reflex, that means my relationship is grounded in lies or oppression?

we just arent going to see eye to eye, and thats ok.

my cousin takes it one step further. he and his wife have "top 5" lists that they share... whod be the top five people youd be with if you werent in the marriage. they are 15 years into a solid marriage, two kids, a house, and a future that i think is pretty darn good.

so, if my wife sees a guy at the gym and thinks "i wonder what itd be like to run by fingers over his abs"... ok. im fine with that. i accept that much of that response can be a human condition. some people have self control, some are idiots about it.

but the integrity of my marriage isnt faulty. the foundation of my relationship isnt cracked. the connection we have isnt about oppression and deceit. its about two people who are grounded in reality and who see eye to eye on many issues, including sexuality, sensuality, and what it mean to be a sexual being in a monogamous, happy relationship.

but that doesnt mean you can't find someone who is wired more like you than me. just means we arent wired the same... thats all.

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I am 28. Your saying that looking has nothing to do with wanting to sleep with someone and that you are satisfied, but your telling me you would love to spend one night with Sean Connery, Johnny Depp or John Cusack, because their eye candy and interesting people. You look at them, lust after them then no? I mean, again looking meaning looking at someone in that way, not looking like at a stop sign. You wouldn't do it because you love your husband and don't want to hurt him. But if he 'let' you, you'd be all over it? I am very confused. I am not clear on what about that says 'I am satisfied with the person I am with'. To me that's like saying, if you love someone you should want to see them with someone else. "Let's keep our fingers crossed maybe my wife will get to sleep with Sean Connery one day" that's not natural, for me anyway. But, that's normal not to want to let that happen or else people would not have created such things as marriage.

I feel, I only doubt myself because I am not kosher with wanting to see my mate with someone else or am comfortable with them playing with the idea, even if they don't, "looking" being playing with the idea then. I don't think I'm perfect, I know no one is, I don't think I am ugly either. Maybe, I have a problem in thinking I should be good enough that he should not need all that. See, when I think about having an intimate time, I think of him, not someone else, so I don't digest how him thinking of someone else should make me at all aqequate, or him not greedy. You had said in one post "caught him looking", again, if so confident why is it an act of catching someone? If there is nothing wrong with it, then why is it something be caught doing? Maybe it was just terminology and not what you meant to imply, just asking though.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Would I love to spend one night with Sean Connery or Johnny Depp or John Cusack? Sure--but as well as being eye-candy, those men seem like they'd be incredibly interesting to TALK to.

Look, I don't know your age, but that might be a big part of it. I seem to remember going through some of the feelings you are when I was in my early 20s--wondering why a guy would choose ME, when he could have HER---or wondering if a guy was just settling with me because he didn't think he COULD get her.

It really is self-confidence. It's knowing that I'm a worthwhile human being, a good woman, and that even though I'm married, I've had guys tell me "If you weren't married, you would be PERFECT for me".

YOU have to believe it though. This is my concern for you--not that you have trust issues with men, but that you have trust issues with YOURSELF. You don't believe in yourself, you dont' think you're attractive or "as good as" other women.

Baloney.

From the conversation we've been having, you're intelligent, thoughtful, and nice. I have no idea what you look like, but I don't really care. If we were having this conversation in person, I would probably have a pretty good time with you over coffee, which could easily develop into a friendship.

The only thing is--I don't let my friends put themselves down. If they don't have the confidence to believe I want to hang out with them because I like them, and constantly doubt my affection---well, I get frustrated with that pretty fast, and then I don't want to hang out with them as much, because I end up being their therapist and not their friend.

Honey--you NEED to have confidence in yourself. You need to TRULY believe that you're worth having, and that any man with a brain would want to hang out with you. YOU need to believe it.

Until you believe in yourself, you're always going to doubt your partner.

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In the end we all need to find the best kind of "weird" that suits us individually. And knowing where your lines are isn't a bad thing. Some lines are drawn in sand, and some are in stone.

An addendum... I also don't believe in soul mates. I think if I died tomorrow my wife, at some point, would be able to find a man that could be a good husband to her and a good father to my son. That doesn't bug me one bit. Doesn't mean her love for me is less than it should be. And maybe she wouldn't find another mate... but I'm thinking she could. A few billion people on this earth, y'know.

Just to stir the pot up a little more.

I agree with you, haha. I bet you didn't expect that. I mean, how would people be able to marry and divorce if there was only one love for everyone? I would never want someone to go on without love in their life, and I agree that it does not make the love I had with them any less valuable. Each relationship is as unique as the personalities that are in it. It's never in vain and that is a beautiful thing. Love can change, people can fall out of love, obviously, but it does not mean your love for someone when you were different once upon a time with them was any less valid. I don't buy the whole soul mates thing either. I think that's a first time love "hope" but not a reality.

I have a hard time believing anyone who said they had this. I would take that to mean they had little experience or something. I'm not the kind of person to love several people at once, I give it my all. But, if it does not work out, and I heal over time, sure I fall in love with someone else.

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Originally Posted by kp2171

in the end we all need to find the best kind of "weird" that suits us individually. and knowing where your lines are isnt a bad thing. some lines are drawn in sand, and some are in stone.

an addendum... i also dont believe in soul mates. i think if i died tomorrow my wife, at some point, would be able to find a man that could be a good husband to her and a good father to my son. that doesnt bug me one bit. doesnt mean her love for me is less than it should be. and maybe she wouldnt find another mate... but im thinking she could. a few billion people on this earth, y'know.

just to stir the pot up a little more.

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I think I wasn't clear.

I would love to spend ONE NIGHT with them---talking.

I have, in the 12 years I've been with my husband, felt true lust for someone else only twice. And believe me, it was fleeting. That's all it was--lust.

I wouldn't NOT do something just because it would hurt my husband--though of course that would play into it. I wouldn't do something because my husband satisfies me, in every way--spiritually, emotionally, physically, whatever. When I daydream, I daydream about my husband.

That's not to say I don't NOTICE eye-candy when it's around, but seriously, I would wonder about myself if I didn't notice it. Noticing chocolate in the store doesn't mean you're craving it, or that you'd ditch your dinner for it--you just see it and go "oh, chocolate" and carry on with your day.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

That's not to say I don't NOTICE eye-candy when it's around...

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Glad I'm noticed. ;)

You are not crazy!!
I feel exactly the same way. I can objectively look at a man or woman and say "they are beautiful", etc.. with no attraction. That's all it is--totally objective. As far as I am concerned there are no other sexual beings on this planet other than the person I am in a sexual relationship with. Period. If there were or ever are I would not defile the person I am with by being with them anymore. I realized a long time ago that most people are not like this. Most of the people I see are in "friends with benefits" type relationships where both can have sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime so long as they finish it up by themselves or (more horrifying) on their partner. They say things like "we look but don't touch". Huh? What is the difference? That is a great question for the other people out there! Why would they ever prefer that their partner would use them as some sort of human garbage dump rather than simply finishing having sex with the person they're already doing it with in their head?? That is revolting! I would rather be alone than ever find out that I had been used in such a perverted, disgusting way by the one person that I loved and trusted. The problem is that since most people out there are like this and view it as normal it worries me that they will lie. After all, in most situations the people they are getting off on are not people they could realistically get--a middle aged man staring at some big boobed twenty year old who doesn't know he exists (and is probably totally unaware that she is being visually raped for later) isn't going to go home with him right? So he still needs someone to hug/kiss/hang out with and provide the warm body in bed... I am always honest and up front about this issue since it is so obvious that I am in the minority... but how do you ever know if the person is simpy lying in order to keep the convenient situation they have... getting off on other people all day long and using your body every night to do it??
I'm sorry. I wish I could say something to help you. I am only writing to let you know that you are not alone--you are not crazy. You are simply not in the majority on this & neither am I... :(