Fastalcom, I appreciate your post... I think I had a hard time fully understanding you in the first place and was trying to make sense of it since it didn't seem to clear to me.

“Fastalcom, to better understand you, you are basically saying that he beats himself up over it without me telling him how I feel or "hounding" on him. This is true I am sure. That I need to make a decision to be supportive, patient and understanding... and to ignore it as it will only antagonize me, him and our relationship... let it go. Sometimes things are better not to be discussed and maybe they are things I really don't need to know (I could agree with that too ). You are right about my reactions and it affecting personality (which it did) because it targeted my esteem and desire... I am sure you can tell by my past responses.”

Was I incorrect?…because for me to take your advice…I need to be sure I understand you :). True enough I don't think he would be impressed if he found out I was talking about him online but I don't exactly have anyone to talk to since he has been the only thing in my life since I was sweet sixteen. I have made a lot of sacrifices for him too so I did choose to accept some things and change others; I did post them. So far our marriage seems to be stable, affection and intimacy are being given in other ways (kissing, cuddling, tickling and by him & I telling each other we love each other after every telephone call) I know he loves me and I love him…just this one thing which I hope I have taken the right steps to mitigate. I appreciate your comment about men/women ruling the world but that dosen't really give me advice. Of course I will seem nagging you're my husband and I am a frustrated wife... when are wives not nagging, pestering and redundant? And when are husbands not passive, selective listeners? I think we all have our challenges being the sexes we are but you said something about being "open" and it ruining your marriage or it not being the best decision and you regret it. What do you mean?

Is your advice telling me to get off the computer and go and ignore (is this the DECISION you indicated or is what I am doing on the right path) the situation to save my marriage? Please help me understand. Because I did make decisions... I just wanted everyone to tell me if I made the "right" ones.

God I think he's right though... this is the first time the dirty laundry came out and I feel better now but it is difficult putting yourself out there... it took a huge piece of me to get out and post this thread. I think I have given everyone a clear idea of my life now and will just read the posts from hereon in (too much information).

Thank you for everything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by festalcom

..who rules the world?

some say men rule the world

and some say women rule over men

so who rules the world?

the fact is both statements are correct. take the second statement for example..women rule over men..how? find out and victory will be urs.

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There is plenty of objective evidence that men rule the world. They make laws, control most finances, exert political power in myriad ways, decide when a nation goes to war and which cities will be bombed, shut down access to contraceptives in developing nations (or allow them to be made available), and so on. You only have to look at the pictures in the Wall Street Journal or any similar publication to see who is in charge of making most major decisions.

In contrast, there's little objective evidence that "women rule over men." The fact that most men depend on women for sexual satisfaction, for reproduction, and, in some households, to provide services such as laundry, cooking, cleaning, child care, errands, and book keeping does not make women "rulers" any more than a modern domestic servant or a 19th century slave was a ruler. Women are useful, indeed necessary. But they do not rule the world.

It was also an unhelpful answer.

Whether we like to admit it or not, the male brain is wired differently than the female brain. Sex and sexual stimuli fall within this category.
Men are "hard wired" to seek out many different females for sex. This drive is useful as it creates the best/most opportunities for offspring (whether having children is desired or not, the brain says have sex. Make babies. Procreate. Pass long your DNA). Women on the other hand are wired to find a man who will provide for and protect the family unit, so we expect fidelity.

Not all sex drives are created equally. Some men are more comfortable with substitutes for physical sex often due to the emotional disconnection. It's easier to self-pleasure than to worry about the pleasure/satisfaction of a partner. Worrying about their ability to please can defeat them before the sex act even starts. Therefore it's easier not to have sex, than to feel inadequate.
There are psychological reasons for a lower than average sex drive.
1) It's often difficult for men to continue to have sex once the female has given birth. She is now a mother. He has a mother. Mother's are not sexual objects.
2) It's possible that what turns him on would, in his view, be objectionable to you. Rough play, role playing, bondage, or just simply "I need a release. This will only take a minute."
3) Also, since sex is actually a brain function (fact, not fiction) it may be that having intercourse does not live up to his expectations. In his mind, the scene plays out entirely different. There are no expectations of him. No failures. No giggles. No uncomfortable positions. No leg cramps, etc.

It is very important to understand that NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT. You had absolutely nothing to do with how his sexual maturity came about. Whether it be his self doubt, a run of the mill low sex drive, or any other reason, You did not create it, and you cannot take responsibility for righting it.

Now, as to why he might not speak up while choosing a movie: The list is long, but my gut feeling is that he has needs that he isn't comfortable with, and so does not expect you to be comfortable with. This can be almost anything from preferring fetishes like BDSM, latex, pain, and humiliation, to not wanting to offend you my liking redheads more than brunettes (or whatever your hair color is). Don't forget that the reason most people keep their secrets secret is because they feel it is too risky to share. It doesn't make him a bad person (unless the secret is illegal), it just means that the two of you need to find a way to a meeting of the minds.
Not an easy task. Your frustration will eventually leak out. It is very difficult to keep emotions in check if you're feeling neglected. If you are not getting what you need, but he seems to be satisfied by the status quo (with the help of the porn), your options are rather limited.
You said before that you've tried ignoring the problem. That only works for the short term.
You can't "fix" the problem if he doesn't think there's anything to fix. Continued counseling may help, but again, only if there is something the counselor can correct.
So, ultimately it falls to you. Can you live with the issue? Are you able to say to yourself, "I have a wonderful husband, who is a terrific father, and hard worker. He just happens to have a low sex drive, and prefers his sex with "Miss Michigan."
Can you feel satisfied in a relationship that isn't physically sexual? Can you get your emotional fix in other ways, such as dinners out, firelight "chick" movies at home, couples body massage,etc?
I think you mentioned that you've been together for 12 years. That's wonderful! It's great that you want to continue a physical relationship. Can you reconcile yourself to moving to the next level in the marriage where it's simply nice to have the stability, and a great friend whom you happen to love? This is the level that those who stay married for 50 years, find the most satisfaction. Friendship.

I think you answered yourself in the last paragrah, but Porn like Religion and Politics can be a touchy subject even amongst married couples.

Now in breaking down your story many things popped out to me. Read them like this and tell me what this says about you and him?

Your title : My Husband Hides Porn and I Think It's Stupid "I never married him for looks but he is the most beautiful person I have ever known.
"I just have a slight issue around his porn."
"He likes his porn, he likes it private, and he does not want me involved in any shape or form whatsoever."
"I laugh because he tries to cleverly hide it all away"
"I bring it out and set it in plain view in our room, and I don't say anything to attack, embarrass or upset him"
"Instead I try to be supportive and I have given up explaining or trying to convince him its ok, so at times I will avoid the subject just so he sees that it is really no big deal (ignoring it). "

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ATYOURSERVICE

I think you answered yourself in the last paragrah, but Porn like Religion and Politics can be a touchy subject even amongst married couples.

Now in breaking down your story many things popped out to me. Read them like this and tell me what this says about you and him?

Your title : My Husband Hides Porn and I Think It's Stupid "I never married him for looks but he is the most beautiful person I have ever known.
"I just have a slight issue around his porn."
"He likes his porn, he likes it private, and he does not want me involved in any shape or form whatsoever."
"I laugh because he tries to cleverly hide it all away"
"I bring it out and set it in plain view in our room, and I don't say anything to attack, embarrass or upset him"
"Instead I try to be supportive and I have given up explaining or trying to convince him its ok, so at times I will avoid the subject just so he sees that it is really no big deal (ignoring it). "

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It looks bad is how it looks, and it feels just as bad. I admit I have made mistakes but I honestly didn't know half of what was going on in his head either until one of our sessions with the counselor. Which it seems he failed to address some things. I guess I needed a break down of how it is but at that time it wasn't a big deal... my needs where met to some extent, now sex is obsolete and I can't even begin to tell you how these last few posts hit me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ibrat64

I think you mentioned that you've been together for 12 years. That's wonderful! It's great that you want to continue a physical relationship. Can you reconcile yourself to moving to the next level in the marriage where it's simply nice to have the stability, and a great friend whom you happen to love? This is the level that those who stay married for 50 years, find the most satisfaction. Friendship.

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WOW, you are amazing... I am not even just saying that, you are so right in so many ways. I said I wouldn't post on my own thread anymore but I had to because you gave me so much to think about. I now know where I stand (being a mom) and now I am really afraid of the next step of marriage because I am a sexual being a creature of the physical plane (which you pointed out sex drive... mine is obviously higher and more intense). I have a good life with him and after my daughter our sex life actually improved since the first years of marriage where shabby... now I am pregnant and its slowed down again but after I am staying optimistic things will get better after as before. I made personal adjustments to give him freedom and liberty to do as he wishes but when I am ready again I am worried things won't get better. How do some women accept not having their physical needs met in a marriage when they evolve to the next stage? What happens when I hit my peak? My sister said it was awful - that's all she could think about and it sounds very intimidating. I am sorry if it sounds like a silly question :p but I am 26 (I am sure this all comes with maturity) and I am inexperienced with men (I have only a few bf's prior to sexual but not home run (if you can call them even relationships) and had one partner (him)). I love him and enjoy him around so obviously I want to stay in the marriage... that means I have to make these changes within myself and make some serious realizations of facts here. I guess I am just trying to find a way to cope now.

Thank you.

"now sex is obsolete"
Well you did not mention that. This is an issue, because although sex is obsolete, I am assuming the porn is not. This is where it becomes a problem. An addiction if you will.

I think counseling will be good for you two. Go as a couple and as individuals. It will allow you two to communication with each other, but remember we are individuals even though we are in a marriage. You are not him and he is not you.

I have been with my wife for 20 years and we have both admitted to each other that we have our emotional secrets and we respect that. I do not pry into hers and she does not pry into mine.

"How do some women accept not having their physical needs met in a marriage when they evolve to the next stage? There are many toys now on the market. If he is giving you the emotion part, you can used these as an aid.

What happens when I hit my peak? My sister said it was awful - thats all she could think about and it sounds very intimidating.This is where women realize what men go through their whole lives. We always are thinking about sex and who we can have it with.. even if we are in a loving relationship. We could even be with a supermodel and will think about it.

You sound like a great and understanding lady. I see you started quite young. I am assuming he was as well and did not have tomany partners. I wish you lluck with your family.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ibrat64

Whether we like to admit it or not, the male brain is wired differently than the female brain. Sex and sexual stimuli fall within this category.
Men are "hard wired" to seek out many different females for sex. This drive is useful as it creates the best/most opportunities for offspring (whether having children is desired or not, the brain says have sex. Make babies. Procreate. Pass long your DNA). Women on the other hand are wired to find a man who will provide for and protect the family unit, so we expect fidelity.

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Just speaking as a biologist, since that is the topic, and to set the record straight:
There's no scientific evidence to support what is in this paragraph.

It's simply wrong. Fidelity is not more natural for one sex than the other. In a nutshell, men and women are not fundamentally different that way. Among animals generally, females have just as good reason to hedge their bets and mate with multiple partners as males do. (That is, to put it in ibrat's terms, "whether we like to admit it or not, women are hard wired to seek out many different males for sex.") In some situations, females have more reason than their partners. It's untrue that infidelity only benefits males. Not only does theory say that females benefit from mating with multiple partners, but research in animals shows that infidelity by both males and females in mated pairs is commonplace. (Of course, in animals it's not called "infidelity." Who ever heard of an unfaithful fish?)

That said, large numbers of both men and women are faithful throughout life because they choose to be. Just as we can choose to be civilized in other ways, we can choose fidelity if we want.

Similarly, the family--the bond between people in the service of raising children--benefits men as well as women. Just like women, men have a biological interest in seeing their children reach adulthood. Anything dads can do to help their children become healthy attractive mates helps dads pass on their own DNA.

One thing ibrat hinted at is true. It IS true that females' limited number of eggs (compared to sperm) and the 9 months of pregnancy limits the number of babies born to any cohort of males. It's a zero sum game. That means if one guy has more than his share of children by multiple women, some other guys aren't going to have any kids at all. That's the rarely discussed, dark underbelly of multiple partners.

(It's also the reason that in polygamous societies men so often marry 12 year olds. The men quickly run out of adult women and LARGE numbers of men don't get to have wives and kids at all.) Even in our society, lots of men don't pass on their genes because other men have kids by two or three different women, or because we lock the men up on some pretext, or send them into dangerous jobs where they are killed or badly hurt.

Women sometimes choose not to have kids, or they may be infertile, but, unlike men, they virtually never have to worry about finding a mate to have kids with. They just have to worry about finding a good one.

Monogamy is a covenant among men that says one per customer, so that every man gets a chance to breed. When men cheat, they aren't just cheating their wives, they are cheating other men.

So back to Mr. Xoxaprilwine...

[QUOTE=asking;1390669]Just speaking as a biologist, since that is the topic, and to set the record straight:
There's no scientific evidence to support what is in this paragraph.
It's simply wrong. Fidelity is not more natural for one sex than the other.


I certainly didn't mean to imply that fidelity, or lack thereof, benefits one sex more than the other. My intention was merely to state that the sexes drive for mating is for different reasons.
I apologize for the confusion.

Pam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ibrat64

I certainly didn't mean to imply that fidelity, or lack thereof, benefits one sex more than the other. My intention was merely to state that the sexes drive for mating is for different reasons.
I apologize for the confusion.

Pam

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Hi Pam, Sorry for coming down like a ton of bricks. It's a pet peeve of mine that so many people invoke biology to justify inequities, whether it's slavery or the unsupported idea that women lag behind men intellectually. I thought you were arguing that it's natural for men to want multiple partners and unnatural for women to want that.

Lots of people believe that and I wanted to address that. But I should have said it in some other context so it wouldn't seem like everything I said was specifically directed at you. It's been simmering. Apologies back!

I wish I had a magic cure for problems that arise in marriages. The problem with having a cure is that no one cure would be able to fix all the issues. It sometimes seems that we finally resolve one problem, when another comes our way.
I think the most successful marriages are between friends. True friends. We hold the hand of our friends during bad spells in their life, telling them that we're always there for them, it will get better, just hang in there. We stick up for them when we know they're wrong, tell them they're an idiot when they need to hear that, too. But we always remember that they're our friends and we teat them a such.
For some reason, we don't treat our marriages as long-term friendships, but as living with a person who is supposed to make us happy. It isn't always possible to make someone happy, or to keep them happy if you do achieve that goal.
Only you can make you happy. I know it's cliché, but it's true.

I would suggest that you speak to your OB Doctor at your next visit. They are not counselors per se, but I've never met a OB/GYN doctor who did have information on sex and relationships.
Maybe there really is a pshycial problem with hubby. Does he take any medications that might be lowering his sex drive? Is there any medical conditions that he may be prone to that might be weighing on his mind? Prostate issues come to mind, but I'm certain that isn't the only possibility.
Also, your doc can help you with information to help you deal with the lack of sex. Please talk to the OB ( or any other professional that you trust) before you take any steps that may be more harmful, on this issue.
Talking about it helps tremendously. Information gained from those chats can be like a light bulb going off. A virtual DUH! Moment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ibrat64

I wish I had a magic cure for problems that arise in marriages. The problem with having a cure is that no one cure would be able to fix all the issues. It sometimes seems that we finally resolve one problem, when another comes our way.
I think the most successful marriages are between friends. True friends. We hold the the hand of our friends during bad spells in their life, telling them that we're always there for them, it will get better, just hang in there. We stick up for them when we know they're wrong, tell them they're an idiot when they need to hear that, too. But we always remember that they're our friends and we teat them a such.
For some reason, we don't treat our marriages as long-term friendships, but as living with a person who is supposed to make us happy. It isn't always possible to make someone happy, or to keep them happy if you do achieve that goal.
Only you can make you happy. I know it's cliche, but it's true.

I would suggest that you speak to your OB Doctor at your next visit. They are not counselors per se, but I've never met a OB/GYN doctor who did have information on sex and relationships.
Maybe there really is a pshycial problem with hubby. Does he take any medications that might be lowering his sex drive? Is there any medical conditions that he may be prone to that might be weighing on his mind? Prostate issues come to mind, but I'm certain that isn't the only possibility.
Also, your doc can help you with information to help you deal with the lack of sex. Please talk to the OB ( or any other professional that you trust) before you take any steps that may be more harmful, on this issue.
Talking about it helps tremendously. Information gained from those chats can be like a light bulb going off. A virtual DUH! moment.

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No, no medication, no medical condition, healthy 27 year old guy... has a low sex drive because of porn. He has admitted it was a problem because he agrees that when he watches porn... he doesn't watch it just to watch it for enjoyment/entertainment but that he masturbates to it every time... this is addictive to the counselor. He would rather have sex alone (I think) and this puts the competition between the two drives and the type of addition. I know this is not a cause... this is a symptom of a cause and we needed to work on the intimicy and emotional stuff because when we do make love "something doesn't feel right" and "something is missing" for me... I don't feel he is all there and I can't remember the last time he made love to me with his eyes fully on me... I just have this feeling that I don't have his emotional commitment. I have started to "get turned off" as a result and though I am complaining of 3 months of no sex... I sometimes think I just don't want sex with him anymore because I am tired of trying to initiate and get shut down. So I have made changes for me since evidently its more painful for me then it is him and that is a fact. I wouldn't be here telling you the details of my sex life... it just use to be so DAMN good... but I am sick of being a servant in bed... its not a two way thing... maybe I am contributing now, I have given up and honestly, I am really turned off when with him... I know he's not all there. Everything else is great though... it bugs me. I am staying optimistic that once this baby is here it will get better and if not... back to further supportive efforts... if sex life is good then I will have no issues... I have taken care of the hiding part by subscribing and I can always hit him up with "big d*** dvd's" and see how he likes it hehe... that was immature... I know :). I tried talking... he gets really heated and sometimes physical... I am pregnant so not a good idea right now. But I will definitely take your advice with the OB Doctor.

Thanks for everyone's help.

April,

Sorry I couldn't be more help. Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what's happening, though. Good luck to you :)

ANd thatnks for the answers you gave to my post. Too.:)

Have a nice Holiday with your family, and if I don't chat with you again, have a Merry Christmas too.

Pam

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ibrat64

April,

Sorry I couldn't be more help. Sounds like you have a pretty good understanding of what's happening, though. Good luck to you :)

ANd thatnks for the answers you gave to my post. too.:)

Have a nice Holiday with your family, and if I don't chat with you again, have a Merry Christmas too.

Pam

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Awww, ibrat you and everyone gave me great advice... I have been trying to understand the situation and its great to have so many different answers to give me an optical zoom on it :).

I was not finished with your post... wasn't sure if you wanted to private message the rest... but don't hesitate to call me out on anything because I love talking about those things.

Thank you for your thoughts of me and my family. And from my family to yours I also wish you a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year... hope we will be in touch soon :).

Best wishes,

April

LOL... I just don't want to keep talking if you've had enough. Wear out my welcome, so to speak. Your head has GOT to be spinning with all the advise and comments.

You're welcome to email me anytime if you want to speak privately, or just post to this question, and I'll get notice.

Pam
[email protected]

Its not the porn I'm guessing it's the fact that he hides it maby he just feels weird that you know so he just wants to hide it or maby he doesn't want to hurt you by making you think your not good enough for him you should just talk to him and have a open discussion! :)