Wow... that rant made me feel just... dirty. And for nothing more than being human!

I'm not "visually raping" guys --not even YOU, KP!--when I notice one and have a moment of lust!

I'm not cheating, or lying to my husband about it, either.

And again, there's a HUGE difference between noticing for a moment and daydreaming about someone you saw for the next week. Heck, I couldn't even tell you the last time I saw a guy that I had even a moment's daydream about!

But it DOES happen to most people occasionally.

Frankly, you come across as insecure and judgemental to me. Betcha you feel the same way about masturbation as you do about noticing other people. And frankly, really, you have a holier-than-thou attitude about humans in general for having a weakness that most people have--that of noticing the other people in the world for whom there MIGHT be chemistry ----IF----well, there are too many ifs. If I weren't in a relationship, if I had the time to date even if I weren't in a relationship, if that random guy noticed me as well, if, if, if.

Out of curiosity--do you have the idea that when you are in a relationship you can't touch anyone who is not related to you in more than a casual way? I mean, can you hug or give a quick peck of a kiss to a friend of the opposite sex? Or is that just an opportunity to feel them up and fantasize about someone other than your partner because everyone KNOWS that members of the opposite sex can't be friends unless there is a sexual attraction! :rolleyes:

You have issues, honey. The fact that your post was filled with words like perverted, disgusting, human garbage dump, horrifying, etc... sounds like you have some extreme hang ups about sex.

"Most people" are NOT in a "friends with benefits" relationship. "Most people" are in a normal relationship with ONE PERSON and occasionally notice the hot Fed Ex guy and move on with their day. "Most people" don't have to run to the bathroom to masturbate after seeing an attractive member of the opposite sex, and "most people" don't even REMEMBER that person they thought was hot by the time they get home to their partner/spouse.

I said it before and I'll say it again: It's human, and I think there are trust issues and self-esteem issues involved with someone who assumes every person they date is a lecher.

Then I suppose we're talking about semantics really, your saying noticing, quite simply, looking, not “looking” then is what I assume. What I was meaning to say about why it would bother me to think about “looking” to me meant it takes looking at someone else or a fantasy to keep the passion alive in a relationship.
The only way to survive it is by having some outside stimulus, that thought bothers me.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

I think I wasn't clear.

I would love to spend ONE NIGHT with them---talking.

I have, in the 12 years I've been with my husband, felt true lust for someone else only twice. And believe me, it was fleeting. That's all it was--lust.

I wouldn't NOT do something just because it would hurt my husband--though of course that would play into it. I wouldn't do something because my husband satisfies me, in every way--spiritually, emotionally, physically, whatever. When I daydream, I daydream about my husband.

That's not to say I don't NOTICE eye-candy when it's around, but seriously, I would wonder about myself if I didn't notice it. Noticing chocolate in the store doesn't mean you're craving it, or that you'd ditch your dinner for it--you just see it and go "oh, chocolate" and carry on with your day.

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I am being a devil's advocate for the most part, so please don't think I am freaked out or something, but, is it primal instinct to watch some guy ogle you wife? Like, you have no primal instinct to bounce on him? Or... instinct when, like a knee jerk reaction, even if you control it, don't show it, but have this instant irritation when she is checking some man out?

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Originally Posted by kp2171

i think all people are "allowed" some primal instinct response, and i dont think it makes that person, or their relationship less intimate or lacking integrity.

you and i are simply not going to agree... and im not trying to make you cross over to my side.

but, again, dont think for one moment that my wife hasnt felt some strong attraction toward a man other than me somewhere along the way. now... for the most part, if i see a woman i find attractive my heart might race a little, there isnt a primal feeling that isnt "gee i wish i could hit that right now... if i only wasnt married" but it isnt completely asexual either. and then its over.

so... if my partner reads an erotic novel and then self stimulates, does that mean our relationship has no integrity? if i see a woman i find attractive and experience a rush, something that is like a reflex, that means my relationship is grounded in lies or oppression?

we just arent going to see eye to eye, and thats ok.

my cousin takes it one step further. he and his wife have "top 5" lists that they share... whod be the top five people youd be with if you werent in the marriage. they are 15 years into a solid marriage, two kids, a house, and a future that i think is pretty darn good.

so, if my wife sees a guy at the gym and thinks "i wonder what itd be like to run by fingers over his abs"... ok. im fine with that. i accept that much of that response can be a human condition. some people have self control, some are idiots about it.

but the integrity of my marriage isnt faulty. the foundation of my relationship isnt cracked. the connection we have isnt about oppression and deceit. its about two people who are grounded in reality and who see eye to eye on many issues, including sexuality, sensuality, and what it mean to be a sexual being in a monogamous, happy relationship.

but that doesnt mean you can't find someone who is wired more like you than me. just means we arent wired the same... thats all.

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My fear is that your right, and that is what I am asking everyone:

• People accept what they can get, based on what they can offer, their own level of self confidence not what they want. Ex. Bald, middle aged man with beer gut lusts 20 year old with big boobs, but goes home to wife and isn't built like a 17 year old anymore (which is gross if-you're a middle aged man to be attracted to a kid, but hey that's just me) because he feels it's the best he can do, besides, she cooks for him and who else would do that…….in his head he's not good enough, so stick with “what I know I have for sure”, convenience.

• He/she goes home to a warm body, because it'll do as he/she needs affection from somewhere, they have time in together and it's too time consuming to get used to someone else, besides they have a routine which makes life easier, but the very routine makes life with this women he isn't as attracted to as much as the 20 year old boring.


The above are my fears, and is why I am asking everyone. I asked my man this question last night. I asked, if I were lined up with a bunch of playmates do you think you would still pick me; he said “if she had your personality I would”. So to me, that makes me the “warm body”. Then he stereotypes super hot chicks as having a bad personality, which they may not, and I have a decent personality so I guess I'm not superhot in his mind because superhot cicks don't have good personalities? What? I am not unattractive, I am not perfect, no one is, but that tells me that he thinks I am the best he can do, not the best there is. That to me is not a turn on. What turns me on is thinking, I am best thing this person could ask for, wants, desires and not the warm body.

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Originally Posted by meghanbigworld

You are not crazy!!!
I feel exactly the same way. I can objectively look at a man or woman and say "they are beautiful", etc..with no attraction. That's all it is--totally objective. As far as I am concerned there are no other sexual beings on this planet other than the person I am in a sexual relationship with. Period. If there were or ever are I would not defile the person I am with by being with them anymore. I realized a long time ago that most people are not like this. Most of the people I see are in "friends with benefits" type relationships where both can have sex with anyone, anywhere, anytime so long as they finish it up by themselves or (more horrifying) on their partner. They say things like "we look but don't touch". Huh?? What is the difference? That is a great question for the other people out there! Why would they ever prefer that their partner would use them as some sort of human garbage dump rather than simply finishing having sex with the person they're already doing it with in their head??? That is revolting! I would rather be alone than ever find out that I had been used in such a perverted, disgusting way by the one person that I loved and trusted. The problem is that since most people out there are like this and view it as normal it worries me that they will lie. After all, in most situations the people they are getting off on are not people they could realistically get--a middle aged man staring at some big boobed twenty year old who doesn't know he exists (and is probably totally unaware that she is being visually raped for later) isn't going to go home with him right? So he still needs someone to hug/kiss/hang out with and provide the warm body in bed...I am always honest and up front about this issue since it is so obvious that I am in the minority... but how do you ever know if the person is simpy lying in order to keep the convenient situation they have.....getting off on other people all day long and using your body every night to do it???
I'm sorry. I wish I could say something to help you. I am only writing to let you know that you are not alone--you are not crazy. You are simply not in the majority on this & neither am I...:(

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Responding to "meghanbigworld" not myself

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Originally Posted by Synnen

Wow....that rant made me feel just....dirty. And for nothing more than being human!

I'm not "visually raping" guys --not even YOU, KP!--when I notice one and have a moment of lust!

I'm not cheating, or lying to my husband about it, either.

And again, there's a HUGE difference between noticing for a moment and daydreaming about someone you saw for the next week. Heck, I couldn't even tell you the last time I saw a guy that I had even a moment's daydream about!

But it DOES happen to most people occasionally.

Frankly, you come across as insecure and judgemental to me. Betcha you feel the same way about masturbation as you do about noticing other people. And frankly, really, you have a holier-than-thou attitude about humans in general for having a weakness that most people have--that of noticing the other people in the world for whom there MIGHT be chemistry ----IF----well, there are too many ifs. If I weren't in a relationship, if I had the time to date even if I weren't in a relationship, if that random guy noticed me as well, if, if, if.

Out of curiosity--do you have the idea that when you are in a relationship you can't touch anyone who is not related to you in more than a casual way? I mean, can you hug or give a quick peck of a kiss to a friend of the opposite sex? Or is that just an opportunity to feel them up and fantasize about someone other than your partner because everyone KNOWS that members of the opposite sex can't be friends unless there is a sexual attraction! :rolleyes:

You have issues, honey. The fact that your post was filled with words like perverted, disgusting, human garbage dump, horrifying, etc....sounds like you have some extreme hang ups about sex.

"Most people" are NOT in a "friends with benefits" relationship. "Most people" are in a normal relationship with ONE PERSON and occasionally notice the hot Fed Ex guy and move on with their day. "Most people" don't have to run to the bathroom to masturbate after seeing an attractive member of the opposite sex, and "most people" don't even REMEMBER that person they thought was hot by the time they get home to their partner/spouse.

I said it before and I'll say it again: It's human, and I think there are trust issues and self-esteem issues involved with someone who assumes every person they date is a lecher.

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Your saying, this moment or moments of lusts, being the only 1 or 2 valid times in 12 years, not looking at someone, not simply checking them out, or people watching, real lust, chemistry, like you share with your husband, and that your decision not to do it was not simply based on not rattling your comfort zone, but because your are satisfied and have already created an established connection but realize that one can be made in another life with this person.

But the desire was rare and completely abstract to the love you have? Not because you aren't satisfied, not because you don't get the attention you want, not because you felt the option wasn't available to you if you wanted to act on it? Sometimes I think people feel that if they were to step out it would have to be for a really good reason, almost like, "well, that guy is hot but not hot enough to end my relationship" but that if the person has that level of "hottness" and chemistry they might be willing to risk it, or under certain circumstances, such as, "well, I am not getting any at home and so and so will never find out" and then justify it. I mean, we're going into the area of cheating now so that's abstract to all this I suppose, but your saying, chemistry was what created lust, not attractiveness, not feeling unsatisfied.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

I think I wasn't clear.

I would love to spend ONE NIGHT with them---talking.

I have, in the 12 years I've been with my husband, felt true lust for someone else only twice. And believe me, it was fleeting. That's all it was--lust.

I wouldn't NOT do something just because it would hurt my husband--though of course that would play into it. I wouldn't do something because my husband satisfies me, in every way--spiritually, emotionally, physically, whatever. When I daydream, I daydream about my husband.

That's not to say I don't NOTICE eye-candy when it's around, but seriously, I would wonder about myself if I didn't notice it. Noticing chocolate in the store doesn't mean you're craving it, or that you'd ditch your dinner for it--you just see it and go "oh, chocolate" and carry on with your day.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

I am being a devil's advocate for the most part, so please don't think I am freaked out or something, but, is it primal instinct to watch some guy ogle you wife? Like, you have no primal instinct to bounce on him? Or.....instinct when, like a knee jerk reaction, even if you control it, don't show it, but have this instant irritation when she is checking some man out?

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I don't think you are freaked out... as much as we take different approaches, this thread has leveled out and become a reasonable discussion.

If I notice a man checking out my wife there's a little internal twinge of "mkay buddy, just watch yourself"... I am a hot enough tempered irish guy... I actually consider myself somewhat jealous, but my trust in her is bigger than my jealousy... and I say that having had two other loves cheat on me. It wasn't easy to get to this place, but I can see by many simple actions how grounded she is and how her word really is her intention. Were she a different person, maybe I wouldn't be OK with her getting attention.

So... if we are walking through the mall and she's getting simple looks, sometimes ill just count them up and tell her when we hit the store "five"... meaning I caught five guys looking at her with interest... and most of them I just stare down, as they watch her and then look to see if I'm looking. OK. No big deal. I'm not going to make my wife go out in a burka, not that I could.

When were are out with friends and some guy is buying her drinks and talking her up, even touching her arm... yes, there is a primal, territorial reflex. But again, I'm not an ape all the time, so I can check out the situation and if I need to step in, I will. She's always removed herself from a situation that seemed uncomfortable or that was escalating.

And if it got to the point that he's over the line and has ignored warnings... then it'll get ugly. I give a lot of room, but when that line is crossed, it would be all out ugly. Ill leave the details out, but a coworker of hers last year hit on her hard... basically asked her, after everyone else had left, if she wanted to "go someplace".. this after a tragic day for her pesonally, and her guard was down. I was on the way to pick her up when she gave me the "can you get here sooner than later" call... the guy left just as I got there, and she didn't tell me until he was out of the lot... which was good because I wanted to beat the snot out of him. Took all I had not to stop in at his work and push him to the wall. But within a year he was fired for inappropriate things done on the job... his wife was, I'm sure, less than pleased. So in this case, where a guy not only showed interest, but was pressuring her... id be happy with him as a grease spot on the wall. That anger reflex is probably similar to what you feel if you catch your guy looking at another woman? I just have a greater threshold?

Now, if I notice her checking out a guys tush as he passes by, and I've seen her do this, it really doesn't rile me so much. I like the fact she's a sexual being who chooses to be with me, even when there are others around that might piqué her interest. She travels overseas and out of town. If I couldn't trust that shell keep control when boys want to buy her drinks, id go mad. That they find her attractive and might look her up and down doesn't bother me for the most part, as long as she's not uncomfortable.

I agree about the burka comment. I mean, Self expression is important, I would be highly upset if someone asked me not to express myself, and I would never do that to someone either. The primal instinct to look for you is more natural and for me the instinct to bounce is more so. I suppose some people have more or less of one or the other and if their lucky their at even. I am not hot tempered, I don't fly off the handle. I don't 'punish' him for it, I don't treat a women different if I know he has looked a her. I feel hurt and to me it was a matter of how much I should express to that person because I would never ask someone to change, so bringing it up is pointless. I mean, I have always been a fan of 'you should love someone as they are' The irony is that if I felt someone I loved was hurt by something I did or was doing I would want to know. So, in this case I think it really is just a matter of what I will/can accept as you said before. You don't think this discussion has been level?

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Originally Posted by kp2171

i dont think you are freaked out... as much as we take different approaches, this thread has leveled out and become a reasonable discussion.

if i notice a man checking out my wife theres a little internal twinge of "mkay buddy, just watch yourself".... i am a hot enough tempered irish guy... i actually consider myself somewhat jealous, but my trust in her is bigger than my jealousy... and i say that having had two other loves cheat on me. it wasnt easy to get to this place, but i can see by many simple actions how grounded she is and how her word really is her intention. were she a different person, maybe i wouldnt be ok with her getting attention.

so... if we are walking through the mall and shes getting simple looks, sometimes ill just count them up and tell her when we hit the store "five"... meaning i caught five guys looking at her with interest... and most of them i just stare down, as they watch her and then look to see if im looking. ok. no big deal. im not going to make my wife go out in a burka, not that i could.

when were are out with friends and some guy is buying her drinks and talking her up, even touching her arm... yes, there is a primal, territorial reflex. but again, im not an ape all the time, so i can check out the situation and if i need to step in, i will. shes always removed herself from a situation that seemed uncomfortable or that was escalating.

and if it got to the point that hes over the line and has ignored warnings... then itll get ugly. i give a lot of room, but when that line is crossed, it would be all out ugly. ill leave the details out, but a coworker of hers last year hit on her hard... basically asked her, after everyone else had left, if she wanted to "go someplace".. this after a tragic day for her pesonally, and her guard was down. i was on the way to pick her up when she gave me the "can you get here sooner than later" call... the guy left just as i got there, and she didnt tell me until he was out of the lot... which was good because i wanted to beat the snot out of him. took all i had not to stop in at his work and push him to the wall. but within a year he was fired for inappropriate things done on the job... his wife was, im sure, less than pleased. so in this case, where a guy not only showed interest, but was pressuring her... id be happy with him as a grease spot on the wall. that anger reflex is probably similar to what you feel if you catch your guy looking at another woman? i just have a greater threshold?

now, if i notice her checking out a guys tush as he passes by, and ive seen her do this, it really doesnt rile me so much. i like the fact shes a sexual being who chooses to be with me, even when there are others around that might pique her interest. she travels overseas and out of town. if i couldnt trust that shell keep control when boys want to buy her drinks, id go mad. that they find her attractive and might look her up and down doesnt bother me for the most part, as long as shes not uncomfortable.

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It is "too much to ask" to get someone else to oblige by YOUR needs and standards. If you could, then you'd have a complete "puppet" on your hands.

Is this what you want?

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

You don't think this discussion has been level?

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I must have said it wrong. I think it is a good discussion, and one that you've been able to "weather" well... I know there were moments earlier, such as the counseling suggestion, that might have not struck you right... but you've posted a thoughtful discussion that I think has been level headed. Early on I wasn't sure it was going to go this way... as some have posted here before and the minute someone disagrees with them, they walk out.

I think we are at the point where you don't feel your character is being attacked, or you are being told that you are broken. And I don't feel like the integrity of my relationship is in question just because my partner or I might look at others. Make sense?

Good deal

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Originally Posted by kp2171

i must have said it wrong. i think it is a good discussion, and one that youve been able to "weather" well... i know there were moments earlier, such as the counseling suggestion, that might have not struck you right... but youve posted a thoughtful discussion that i think has been level headed. early on i wasnt sure it was going to go this way... as some have posted here before and the minute someone disagrees with them, they walk out.

i think we are at the point where you dont feel your character is being attacked, or you are being told that you are broken. and i dont feel like the integrity of my relationship is in question just because my partner or i might look at others. make sense?

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Well, that goes both ways does it not? I mean, if you have no standards then you are the puppet.

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Originally Posted by DaBaAd

It is "too much to ask" to get someone else to oblige by YOUR needs and standards. If you could, then you'd have a complete "puppet" on your hands.

Is this what you want?

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I totally see everyone's side here especially amIwrong. I used to be this way I hated seeing my man checking out other woman, where the eyes do go up and down. It would piss me off as well. Like what I'm not pretty enough that you have to check out the snobby bleach blonde college chicks. I figure if THEY wanted him he would probably go and get it. And it's the truth I think lots of people would cheat if they could and wouldn't get caught. I do think that "looking" however does play a major part in this role.

I have seen my man almost break his neck looking a some chick passing by in a pink minny skirt. I hate it cause I am beautiful just like you and lots of guys would love to be with us. But it does make you feel down way down. I have also lost respect for my boyfriend years ago. And I was told the same thing everyone does it, so I have been looking around myself and I don't think that anything good is to come of it. It actually made me develop feelings for this friend of mine. Although I would never act upon my feelings cause I will never cheat I am the most honest person you will find.
I also hate feeling like you have to compete if we go out I would like to be showing some cleavage so I keep my mans attention for a longer amount of time.
But yeah I have walked through the mall and seen woman's men check me out I almost wanted to stop them and say walk next to your man, he is walking behind you not to look at your butt, but to look at other woman. I believe that back in the day it wasn't like this, but 2008 you can't even turn the chanel without seeing something majorly sexual on.

Great Post by the way I really loved reading it all.

I do feel where you are coming from and some people may say I am wrong but this is my opinion.

I do agree, of course, and to be honest there are times that I feel bad because I don't want some other women thinking I love that kind of attention, because you know some women feed off it, making other women feel bad that is. I have had a few times when I have seen a guy check me out and the women seemed pissed, and I can only assume that was why. I almost felt like I had to apologize for him. That's not cool. Or worse, when a guy does it and I can tell the women has not noticed, like how gross, their on a date or something and he's looking at me, why is he even bothering to waste her time like that.
I once had a friend who asked me to stop wearing tank tops because her man apprently was eyeing me up all the time when we all went out. I was thinking, because you're my friend and I am not trying to disrespect you I will do what you ask, but, how unfair to me that your man does not have enough respect for you that he can't keep from crossing that line when we're all out.

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Originally Posted by topladyj

I totally see everyones side here especially amIwrong. I used to be this way I hated seeing my man checking out other woman, where the eyes do go up and down. It would piss me off as well. Like what I'm not pretty enough that you have to check out the snobby bleach blonde college chicks. I figure if THEY wanted him he would probably go and get it. And its the truth I think lots of people would cheat if they could and wouldn't get caught. I do think that "looking" however does play a major part in this role.

I have seen my man almost break his neck looking a some chick passing by in a pink minny skirt. I hate it cause I am beautiful just like you and lots of guys would love to be with us. But it does make you feel down way down. I have also lost respect for my bf years ago. And I was told the same thing everyone does it, so I have been looking around myself and I don't think that anything good is to come of it. It actually made me develope feelings for this friend of mine. Although I would never act upon my feelings cause I will never cheat I am the most honest person you will find.
I also hate feeling like you have to compete if we go out I would like to be showing some cleavage so I keep my mans attention for a longer amount of time.
But yeah I have walked through the mall and seen womans men check me out I almost wanted to stop them and say walk next to your man, he is walking behind you not to look at your butt, but to look at other woman. I belive that back in the day it wasn't like this, but 2008 you can't even turn the chanel without seeing something majorly sexual on.

Great Post by the way I really loved reading it all.

I do feel where you are coming from and some people may say I am wrong but this is my opinion.

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WOW! So sorry. I have never posted a comment on any site before & just felt compelled to comment here, but obviously I'm not too good at it!

I think the people posting on this question have been very thoughtful in their writing--they seem to have really given thought to the issues and been very decent in their responses...


I actually have no problem with any arrangement that any couple has---that is none of my business & why would I care as long as no one pressures me to be the same! If the people in my life are happy and not hurting anyone else than I am thrilled. I don't feel "holier-than-thou" about anyone--just tired of being told that there is something wrong with me for not desiring anyone other than my partner & wanting to be with someone who feels the same. It seemed like AmIwrong had felt some of the same things that I have & still do worry over.

I am actually in a relationship with a man that I think is amazing! I am not jealous or possesive. One of the things I liked about him right away was that he had as many women friends as men & spends lots of time with them (great people we are both very close to), with me & without. (Our sex life is great, so I don't think I'm too screwed up there.. :)) And I have zero worries that he would ever go to bed with someone else. If anything like that ever happened I feel sure that he would be honest about something like that-because that is the commonly accepted line, right? Unfortunately for me it's not where my line is & that's what makes me feel insecure a lot. I would never try to change anyone. If something is a dealbreaker for me then that is my issue--I would need to stay or go--trying to change the other person would never occur to me. Particularly concerning the issues written about here. These are not things that I think people can or should ever be asked to change---but that includes me too! All I want from anyone else is honesty so that I can make the decision about what is OK for me.

What I was trying to get across was simply that in this culture it is so hard to trust. Everyone & men especially get so much sex thrown at them... magazines, TV, etc.. that they really don't have to leave the house or even actively seek it out to cheat anymore. And, yes for me that really is cheating... looking at someone else's face, mouth, body etc. and being aroused/attracted or fantasizing sexually about that person I do feel is cheating. And I don't think it is any better than actually going to bed with that person (unless the only thing you are worried about is an std). I guess I do feel that most of the partnerships & marriages that I see really are a "friends-with-benefits" type of arrangement--again, great if that's what people want. Just like it's my right to not be in that type relationship, right?


I am sorry that people were so taken aback by what I wrote. I guess I just wanted to say to AmIwrong that you are not alone in struggling with these issues...

I am totally open and honest about what my boundaries on these issues are (just as I would hope anyone I was in a relationship would be about anything that would be a dealbreaker for them). But everything I read basically tells me that I am stupid or crazy if I believe he is being honest about feeling the same about me. So, I worry sometimes & feel insecure.

I probably won't write again & I really am sorry to have been offensive. I'll keep reading though--for some reason it helps me to know that there are other people struggling with the same kind of stuff... AmIwrong--I hope everything works out for you!

Thanks so much for writing. I agree with you in that everyone has their quirks they are willing to accept. For me, it was a matter of trying to figure out if I was really one very bazaar person for feeling this way. To be fair, society has conditioned us to feel both ways. To have sexuality pushed on us and on the same token to be faithful to a point that apprently does not apply. I mean, in the sense of women, let's be fair, 'it's really cool for girls to flash breasts on spring break, in fact encouraged, but then is she moves onto another man "to" fast after a past relationship then she's a whore'. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with either statement, just making a point. Most men love 'girl on girl action, they would likely dig it if their women would oblige them, but it's not cool if she were with another man'. Men are conditioned as well, I mean, they may not care, but if they don't at least pretend to they are questioned about their sexuality. I was at a public event once where apprently on commercial break women were flashing, men were holding up their five year old sons to check it out. Do you honestly see a mother or father doing such a thing with their little girl to see a man flash? I doubt it. That's my sociology for the day.

There are many conflicting messages out there. This is very confusing and I doubt seriously I am the first to feel that way. For a moment I did feel slammed bascially for having my feelings, when incidentally my feelings came just as naturally as the opposing views did. Regardless of what is normal, it is a matter of being able to take someone at face value. I saw it as if this is so normal, "looking" at someone wishing you had them but go home to 'old what's his face for example', then how would I have ethically said "Yes we communicate honestly" if I felt repressed to say anything about how I felt?

In other words, I am not some sex nazi, like you said, I have no desire to change anyone, and some on this site have said it would be stupid for a man to tell me such honest notions, but no one I am in a relationship with should have a desire to change me as well. Given that two people can have these dramatic viewpoints that could ultimately ulter the relationship and a compromise has to be reached, some meeting of the minds has to take place that I consider that to be very difficult if someone or both are not willing to change. Otherwise long term resentment will make the decision. Since there is no readily made solution, being honest and accepting each for what they really are at least gives people the right to choose who they are really with. What is likely then to happen is that a person may be inclined to lie about their behavior if not, which is not what makes a relationship, lies. So, by being honest, one is not looking to punish anyone, but seeks the truth so that when they say I love you it won't include "except for" it will mean entirely quirks and all. That to me is integrity, regardless of anyone's views on this topic. It takes real character to tell the truth even if the outcome may be undesirable, and it also takes great willpower to be wise enough to never ask questions you can't handle hearing the truth to.

I like to think I have both of these qualities, otherwise I would not have even considered being receptive and posting this question to begin with. This, is my way of researching and comtemplating because I care for someone. I thank you for your post because even though I need to understand the opposing view, I would like to feel a bit normal and not damaged for what I viewed as my personality. This situation is difficult because it's such a gray area given so many variables I have learned no one person could be right, as the relationship itself will determine that.

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Originally Posted by meghanbigworld

WOW! So sorry. I have never posted a comment on any site before & just felt compelled to comment here, but obviously I'm not too good at it!

I think the people posting on this question have been very thoughtful in their writing--they seem to have really given thought to the issues and been very decent in their responses...


I actually have no problem with any arrangement that any couple has---that is none of my business & why would I care as long as no one pressures me to be the same! If the people in my life are happy and not hurting anyone else than I am thrilled. I don't feel "holier-than-thou" about anyone--just tired of being told that there is something wrong with me for not desiring anyone other than my partner & wanting to be with someone who feels the same. It seemed like AmIwrong had felt some of the same things that I have & still do worry over.

I am actually in a relationship with a man that I think is amazing! I am not jealous or possesive. One of the things I liked about him right away was that he had as many women friends as men & spends lots of time with them (great people we are both very close to), with me & without. (Our sex life is great, so I don't think I'm too screwed up there............?:)) And I have zero worries that he would ever go to bed with someone else. If anything like that ever happened I feel sure that he would be honest about something like that-because that is the commonly accepted line, right? Unfortunately for me it's not where my line is & that's what makes me feel insecure alot. I would never try to change anyone. If something is a dealbreaker for me then that is my issue--I would need to stay or go--trying to change the other person would never occur to me. Particularly concerning the issues written about here. These are not things that I think people can or should ever be asked to change---but that includes me too! All I want from anyone else is honesty so that I can make the decision about what is ok for me.

What I was trying to get accross was simply that in this culture it is so hard to trust. Everyone & men especially get so much sex thrown at them...magazines, tv, etc..that they really don't have to leave the house or even actively seek it out to cheat anymore. And, yes for me that really is cheating....looking at someone elses face, mouth, body etc. and being aroused/attracted or fantasizing sexually about that person I do feel is cheating. And I don't think it is any better than actually going to bed with that person (unless the only thing you are worried about is an std). I guess I do feel that most of the partnerships & marriages that I see really are a "friends-with-benefits" type of arrangement--again, great if that's what people want. Just like it's my right to not be in that type relationship, right?


I am sorry that people were so taken aback by what I wrote. I guess I just wanted to say to AmIwrong that you are not alone in struggling with these issues...

I am totally open and honest about what my boundaries on these issues are (just as I would hope anyone I was in a relationship would be about anything that would be a dealbreaker for them). But everything I read basically tells me that I am stupid or crazy if I believe he is being honest about feeling the same about me. So, I worry sometimes & feel insecure.

I probably won't write again & I really am sorry to have been offensive. I'll keep reading though--for some reason it helps me to know that there are other people struggling with the same kind of stuff...AmIwrong--I hope everything works out for you!!

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Thank you for the site, though I do have all of these qualities. For one, I am not a teen as this site suggests, I am a full grown adult with my unique take on life. Most importantly, I do have all of these qualities. I am not sure if you have been reading all of my posts on this topic, but I am not a nazi. In fact I have said nothing to him even on the topic for the most part because I am conducting my own research via this site so that I can be fair. Which I think is reasonable. I do appriciate it though.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

Well, that goes both ways does it not? I mean, if you have no standards then you are the puppet.

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Just answer one question. Have you ever seen a good looking man and just wondered? If you answer no, never, you are not a human being!! All kidding aside, men AND women look. It is human nature. If you are with someone that lokks and says nothing about it then let it go but on the other hand if you are with someone that lokks and makes verbal comments, then kick the guy to the curb.

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Originally Posted by amIwrong

I think what I am discussing the difference of lust versus looking. So my use of the word looking probably wasn't as accurate as I could have explained it. To me, if a person, man or women is thinking "god, that looks good, wish I could hit that" then there is no intimacy, even if they aren't hitting it, they wish they could there is not much integrity there to say "but I don't" but you wish you could. We're not talking about relationships with other people, we're talking about the desire for someone.

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Oh trust me seeing a great looking woman and thinking "I wish I could hit that" has nothing to do with intimacy. It's a guy thing... guys can and do have sex every day with women they don't give a rats azz about. Seriously, you have seen these guys before. Most do it because they can. Not just because they want to.

But let me also state that the difference between thinking... "I wish I could hit that" and actually trying to is vast. DO I think that every time I see Eva Longoria or Jessica ALba, or any other number of knockouts... damn right and so will any other guy that's not impotent. But liking something we see and wanting to spend out life with them is not the same.

Now women tend to be wired differently than men so that's why so few of them can understand this. No offense but its just that a guys thought process is not the same as a woman's. But it does explain why what a woman might see in a situation is not what a guy sees in the very same situation.


Looking at a woman, and liking what we see does not equal pursuing her.

Keep in mind if a guy choses to be with you and stay faithful to you its because he loves you. If he looks at another woman, likes what he sees it has nothing to do with you. As long as he isn't flirting with her. Looking is one thing (thats just hormones and guy genes)... BUT flirting takes it to a whole different level however and changes everything. You don't flirt with other women when you love the one you are with. That is uncool.

Thanks, it's somewhat comforting, I guess. I mean, I do realize that this is not as simple as man versus women, as some women feel this way as well. I understand that I don't understand but trust what you are saying. Needless to say, for me, or a man/women who feels like me, it's almost like, well, if I were that great your attention wouldn't be else where. Love has nothing to do with it in a way. I mean, for your side of it or mine. In that, I want to think that regardless of love he would want me over anyone else PHYSICALLY not just because we're emotional, even if I am not perfect because no one is. That's probably a cocky thing to even assume, but in a way, it's like otherwise wise I feel he's staying with me out of convenience. Other then that once I know a guy is turned on by someone else, it's like, it's worse knowing "he loves me" like he's doing me a favor by not cheating. At that point I would rather him go make himself happy, doing me a favor would otherwise make me feel pathetic. Like "see I love you so much I resist going after someone else" like, yeah, uh, that really makes me want you. If you have to resist it because the desire for someone else is that strong, then I don't want it. All I can do is go on knowing that this makes sense to a lot of people and I hope one day I have a light bulb moment or turn some corner. Otherwise this is all going to be very miserable for me.

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Originally Posted by smoothy

Oh trust me seeing a great looking woman and thinking "I wish I could hit that" has nothing to do with intimacy. Its a guy thing....guys can and do have sex every day with women they don't give a rats azz about. Seriously, you have seen these guys before. Most do it because they can. Not just because they want to.

But let me also state that the difference between thinking..."I wish I could hit that" and actually trying to is vast. DO I think that every time I see Eva Longoria or Jessica ALba, or any other number of knockouts... damn right and so will any other guy thats not impotent. But liking something we see and wanting to spend out life with them is not the same.

Now women tend to be wired differently than men so thats why so few of them can understand this. No offense but its just that a guys thought process is not the same as a womans. But it does explain why what a woman might see in a situation is not what a guy sees in the very same situation.


Looking at a woman, and liking what we see does not equal pursuing her.

Keep in mind if a guy choses to be with you and stay faithful to you its because he loves you. If he looks at another woman, likes what he sees it has nothing to do with you. As long as he isn't flirting with her. Looking is one thing (thats just hormones and guy genes)....BUT flirting takes it to a whole different level however and changes everything. You don't flirt with other women when you love the one you are with. That is uncool.

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