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I see flirting as an attempt to pick up a date... vs just talking with no intent of going out together... just because they are atractive, doesn't automattically make it flirting. And conversely just because they aren't attractive doesn't mean they can't be flirting. And what defines a flirt is entirly the intent of the flirter, not what a third party thinks. That's the difference between being sociable and a flirt.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
True, you never know what the person is thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
And yes I do think it would be wrong to limit all contact with the opposite sex so...
I conceed defeat :)
Key is trust... and faith in your partner. If you don't have that, then how solid can your relationship really be.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
Talking or flirting
Either one depends on the initial intent as someone else replied about planting the seed to see where it goes.
Very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
Once you have been broken once it can be hard to have complete trust in someone again.
I am now at that point I think.
I used to be the "taliban" woman not liking him even talking to girls but over time I am unfazed by it. I know he would not engage in flirting.
I think I misunderstood what you were saying at first, I was taking it as openly flirting behind their partners back. I understand now.
When he gets to # 1/2 on your list.
Well, would you complain if your wife flirted all night with guys in bars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushtumpa
And what defines a cheater is the INTENT of the cheater, regardless what a 3rd party thinks?Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
With that reasoning, a person that loves their spouse and plans to live with them and love them and raise children with them can have meaningless sex on the side, because they LOVE their spouse, and the sex is "just meaningless", therefore it can't be cheating.
Cheating--and I'll stand behind this 100%--is defined by BOTH people in the relationship. If you can't agree on which step would be cheating, your relationship is probably doomed to begin with. Two people that see #1 as cheating would be perfectly happy with each other---as would two people who don't see it as cheating until #10. It's when there is a difference that communication needs to come into play, and the "rules" for the relationship need to be defined.
Oh there are a handful of guys that do openly flirt in front of their girlfriend / wife. But they are easy to spot... they are usually control freaks, and abusive. The "bad boy" type so many young suckers... er I mean women fall for. THere have been upteen threads about them here, sure you've seen some of them. After all, I've always been baffled by those women who get all paranoid and such when he has decided to come home with you, marry you or whatever. Particularly if he's still single, he could get up and leave if that's what he wanted... yet some women will drive a guy to do just that.Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
And yeah... the trust thing is a tough one once its lost. It is hard to get back. And you you keep looking back instead of ahead its going to be harder to get there. After all if you focus on where you've been excessively, you have little time to see where you are going.
No, that's not at all what I said. If you are having ANY sex on the side... you've jumped the shark. You CAN have good friends of the opposite sex that is totally platonic... who ever said you HAVE to have sex with anyone of the opposite sex you talk with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Synnen
Yeah there might be a handful of immature people that do think that, but most don't. A man and a woman can joke around, talk about a lot of things... and neither of them ever considers fooling around together.
And #9 is most definitely cheating... oral sex is still sex... and well #10 just narrows down a bit what gets put where.
Lets say I can joke around with you on "pick a topic" . Doesn't matter what topic. We are both happily married and neither of us would fool around with the other in that way, I am thus not flirting with you trying to get in your pants... we are just two friends that can joke around on adult topics without either expecting or worrying about the other wanting to go there.
Now that's just being sociable... now assume you have a prudish partner, that thinks and believe you can't just be friends with the opposite sex. Should you be expected to give up your circle of friends where nothing is happening and won't happen, just to please one person with an unreasonible fear?
I have women friends, I have guy friends... I'm not trying to get into anyone's pants. But I do enjoy converstions on diverse topics. I know that everyone else knows that... but assume my wife was a paranoid type that thinks everyone is a bisexual sex fiend... why should I sit at home alone talking to no one just to please her, and be miserable?
Two people who actually beileve #1 is cheating are going to be one of those couples that stop having sex together about 5 years into the marriage, because its so dull and repetative, as people that narrow minded have no friends out of fear of upseting the other by even looking at another person. I know a few devout Muslims that would say that person is weird. True, they aren't Saudi or Taliban, but were born Afghan and very friendly and outgoing, the men and women.
See my point there, or am I just rambling.
shazamataz agrees: Very true, not looking back is hard, but it is something you need to do.
But like driving a car... you don't focus on the rear view mirror. A glance every so often is fine... but if you focus on it then you are going to have an accident, and not make it to where you are going.
Let me add a couple of experiences, to put my question in context. I have paid over a thousand dollars to sit and flirt with a hostess in a Tokyo club, and five dollars for sex in a tent near a Jakarta railway track.
One was an incredibly erotic experience that will remain in my mind until the day I die, and I never even touched as much as her had (I would have been thrown straight out of the club had I done so).
The other was a quick exchange of fluids. (Maybe I should have paid 10 dollars)... It had no meaning, other than I was horny and she was hungry. It was an eminently forgettable experience.
Is a relationship about mental bonding with another person, or about ejaculation?
I wasn't aware we were throwing prostitution in the mix. That's cheating right off the bat for me.
Your wife should leave you because now your just bagging about your evil ways and your not even remorseful. I knew there was something more behind your thread besides an insecure wife.
Your wife should leave you if she has any common sense because you're a dog.
Cheating is cheating regardless if you have any meaning feelings for these females. Then to use your horniness as an excuse is throwing more salt to the wound.
I rest my case...Quote:
Originally Posted by liz28
Case rested then because you have no case.
I believe a husband is unfaithful when he has fully decided in his heart to give in to the lustful and sexual desires he might be feeling towards another woman. Finding other woman attractive is normal. Men and woman are not blind. It is normal to find someone other than your spouse attractive. However when a man can no longer control his thoughts he can no longer control his body and eventually he will end up in the sack with the other woman. Signs that show that your husband has given in to this can vary so it will depend on how good that person knows his or her spouse.
This thread just got a whole lot stranger and a whole lot more confusing.
My case, which I declined to place before you until I had a few answers to prove my point, was that no one can agree on a sociatal definition of "cheating" within a relationship. As I asked (an no one answered) - Is a relationship about mental bonding with another person, or about ejaculation?
Obviously a relationship is not about ejaculation, it is about mental bonding. And to enter into a relationship you do not have to have intercourse. You can cheat on your wife without sex, and to be honest a lot of men firmly believe that you are not cheating if you have sex without any mental bonding.
The most interesting thing is the poster who called me a dog (errrrrr - where is the moderator here... ).
In her earlier post she state that the line was drawn at 8, where the husband has intercourse with his wife, but thinks of the other girl. This is a mental relationship!!
Yet now she says "Cheating is cheating regardless if you have any meaning feelings for these females". Which implies (if I understand her sentence) a physical relationship.
Cheating is an individual perception in the mind of the one who may or may not be cheating. It is not up for others to determine if someone is cheating or not, since we cannot ever determine a common definition. Your interpretation of "cheating" is individualistic, and therefore it is not possible to be judgmental of the situation.
Before any of you go hitting the keys and blab on about cheating, consider that it is only your interpretation, not societal standards, not those applicable to the individual situation.
Of course it is about mentally AND emotionally bonding and your wife should be an emotional wreck by now.
I would dump a guy that WASTED over a thousand dollars on a woman when he could have spent it on a great vacation with the wife!
At what point is the wife unfaithful?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushtumpa
My question is this: at what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:
1 Wife smiles at a guy in a bar.
2. Wife chats with a guy in a bar.
3. Wife flirts with a guy in a bar.
4. Wife touches arm of a guy in a bar.
5. Wfie touches leg of a guy in a bar.
6. Wife touches a guy in a bar.
7. Wife masturbates n shower, thinking of guy she met in bar.
8. Wife has sex with husband, thinking about guy she met in a bar.
9. Wife has oral sex with guy she met in a bar.
10. Wife has sex with a guy she met in a bar.
Now it is time for you to answer . What do you think.
It would be the same for either males or females with me.. Numbers Nine and Ten. Though depending on the type of leg touching that one could be questionable at times...
I wouldn't want my mans hands all over some girl he met in the bar. Think about it, would you want her hands all over some guy in a bar? If the girl was a good friend I could see you being more of "touchyfeely" type as an actual sign of affection for a friend. But if your touching some woman you don't even know in a bar, in a flirty way that's a show of your intentions. That's just how I feel about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shazamataz
If you think THIS is confusing, read the other threads this person (a trained psychologist, as I recall) started!
When the best sex of your life is sex you have to pay for, you have problems beyond those anyone here can help with.
At what part in this scenario is the husband unfaithful:
1. Husband smiles at girl in bar
No problem
2. Husband chats to girl in bar
No problem
3. Husband flirts with girl in bar
No problem
4. Husband touches arm of girl in bar
No problem
5. Husband touches leg of girl in bar
Problem
6. Husband touches of girl in bar
Touches what??
7. Husband masturbates in shower, thinking of the girl he met in the bar
No problem
8. Husband has`sex with wife but thinks of the girl he met in bar
No problem
SO FAR SO GOOD, BUT THEN,
9. Husband has oral sex with girl he met in bar
Big Problem
10 Husband has sex with girl he met in bar
Big problem.
I do have to agree with the OP that name calling is not necessary.
Be more creative in your insults than "dog", in my opinion.
I'd ALSO like to point out to the OP that I said from the get-go that cheating is defined by the people in the relationship.
If you are not asking questions about personal situations, but are instead making up hypothetical situations just to get a rise out of people---that's called being a troll, and I won't stand for it.
Please clarify whether you are trying to start a discussion (in which case the thread should be in Member Discussions) or whether this is really a situation you need help with.
Since the question was posed to apply to the woman as well?
Personally, I feel the same point is true either with the man or the woman. I don't differentiate. I still feel #9 is where that line is crossed. Fantasy is fine... everyone normal fantasizes, at least those who are not obessesed with someone. But when fantasy becomes reality that line is crossed. I view oral sex as sex, doesn't matter which socket the light is plugged into, once its on, its on, there are no semantics as to certain sockets being OK but not others.
Would you complain if she flirted all night with guys? I just started to read this threat and that got right on my nerves. Why would you feel like you need to flirt with other girls all night?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushtumpa
I think "Flirting" needs to be defined a little better. Depending on the definition the list would no longer be progressive however.Quote:
Originally Posted by 88sunflower
True, everyone has a different opinion on flirting.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothy
To some people it is complimenting someone on their clothing
To other people it is saying "hey nice boobs"
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