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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

All women are naturally bisexual.... whether they choose to admit it or not

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

good stats.... I would say of those 25% that are simply not curious, 100% of their "decision" is based on social &/or parental upbringing.

Woman are attracted to other women because the very nature of a woman is to be attractive. Any woman who is repulsed by the idea is simply a product of her surroundings. Given the right time, the right place, and the right woman, any woman be intrigued at the very least.

Its not degrading in anyway and I mean absolutely no offense to any women anywhere. It is simply the nature of a woman.

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No offense taken. But, I have to disagree with you. I am not repulsed by the idea. I wouldn't hesitate to get involved with a woman if I found them sexually stimulating. I just don't. I have never been intrigued by the idea of getting involved with a woman. I love men. I love their bodies. Yeah, I can appreciate that a woman is attractive, but no sexual thoughts ever pop into my head. I don't think it has anything to do with social or parental upbringing. I believe it is genetic. I have two brothers that are gay and out of the closet. I would imagine that the genes in my family are overwhelmingly in favor of finding men sexually desirable.

Thank GOD! That makes three so far, you, my wife and my Mama. There you go Jizz, told you so! :)

MummaCrash, thanks for the thumbs up and I don't want to hijack this thread but why would gay people be offended at someone stating it is genetic that they are gay? All the ones I know, agree that there is a genetic predisposition involved. They get upset when someone tries to suggest that they actually have a choice as to whether to be gay and, if they work at it, they can change. Any person who claims to be gay and "converts" to a straight lifestyle was either bisexual or straight all along. Yes, sometimes through abuse/social situations, someone's sexual identity may be altered, but that is not the overwhelming majority.

By the way, I think both sexes are equally capable of being bi-sexual. There are more women that experiment or are comfortable in their bi-sexuality, than men, because it is acceptable for women to do so in our society. No one finds it an offensive or repulsive thought. I believe it has to do with the fact that men have been the "ruling" sex. I mean that in the fact that men have, throughout the centuries, made the rules in which we live by. At least in Westernized society. For the most part straight men are sexually aroused by women having sex with each other. So, they have not discouraged, and have actually encouraged that behavior. However, suggest men have sex with each other and you will see most straight people cringe. It is still considered a repulsive thought. That comes from societal conditioning. In the Middle East, in Greece, in other nations, for centuries, it had been considered normal behavior for man on man sex. In Westernized cultures, it is not only frowned upon in our society, but we still have cases of men beating and killing another man for it (Matthew Shephard, as just one example). In today's society, unless you have the good fortune of living in a large cosmopolitan area where being gay now is nothing to be ashamed of, men usually stay in the closet. We are actually seeing more younger straight men experimenting with their sexuality, usually when they are in college. But, it is not openly discussed, as it is with women. And, like Mummacrash and others, it is a bi-curious stage. Most of those men will go on to marry a woman and live a straight life, just as women do now. I do think over time, given time, we will find that our society will find bi-sexual behavior to be the norm among both men and women.

It's nice to see someone with such an honest multiformed outlook on things Ruby.
:) Thanks for sharing with us.

My cousin is gay and a family member talks about her and her lover/gays alike, are missing one Chromosone other then straight people.
She gets offended.

I think that you're right in saying we're all quite capable of altering our sexuality.
I know where I stand now but I still except my love for women too.

Ah, I see. Hate to say this, but unless that family member has conclusive studies to back up that statement, he/she should stop saying it. Has your cousin been tested for a missing chromosome? I very much doubt it. What your family member is doing is making a blanket statement to explain away why your cousin is gay. It is to make them and other family members feel better about your cousin's choice in partners. Your cousin gets offended because saying something like that suggests she isn't "normal". Normal being defined as straight. If normal were defined as bi-sexual or gay, I would be offended too if someone were to tell me that because I don't find women sexually stimulating, that I am missing a chromosome. Does that make sense to you?

I think it is a combination of things and isn't the same for everyone. Genetics is a very broad term. It can mean lacking certain chromosomes, or that there is a specific gene that is passed from parent to child that determines their sexual preferences, or it could be that the brain is hardwired differently. It could be one or a combination of those things that pre-determines a person's sexual preference. Then again, social interaction plays a huge role too. As I stated above, socially it is much more acceptable in our society for women to have sex with other women. Sometimes, the social interaction can be a detrimental factor to a persons mental health and create a preference for same sex partners. Some people are abused as children. With some women, if a man abused them, the experience was so violent, without love, and done with such force, that they will automatically turn to a woman for sexual intimacy because it is safe, loving, and non-threatening.

Unless your family member is 100% certain that your cousin was never sexually abused and your cousin has been tested and found to be missing a chromosome, that family member needs to stop talking as if they were an authority on the subject. There is no need to state it. If they were having a discussion about it, as we are, then there can be an open exchange of ideas. But, unless your cousin is a willing participant in this exchange of ideas, it should not be brought up.

P.S. Sorry for hijacking the thread Sophia. Didn't mean to get off topic.

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I except my love for women

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To each his own, or her own.

To each their own, especially if both chicks are really HOT! :)

I think there are a lot of guys out there that like to watch two female lovers and there are female lovers out there that like others to watch but I wouldn't like that. It's better with just the two.

As you can see, Ive been through this debate before.

Keep in mind that bisexuality and homosexuality are two completely different things here. I do, however, find it strange that a homosexual man/woman says that it is genetic but gets offended when the genetic difference is pointed out.

I believe homosexuality can be either genetic or a choice. There are many studies that have shown homosexuality by removing that chromosome (in animals, of course). And its not to say that they are "different" but they simply have one less chromosome. If its genetic, then one would have to assume that there IS a genetic difference.

Either way, I still stand by my theory that, whether a woman would ever admit t it, or better yet, even realize it herself, all women are simply wired to be open to bisexuality.

And this argument right here is still my favorite:

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

In nature, everything has either a positive (+) or a negative (-) energy. Naturally, these things are meant to be drawn to eachother. In such, men are designed to be ATTRACTED (+), while women are designed to be ATTRACTIVE (-).

In chemistry we learn that bonds are formed in one of two ways: electrovalent ( a bond formed between a positive and a negative ions) and covalent (a bond formed between two electrons, which we know electrons are negatively charged). Bonds do not form between two positively charged forces.

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Hehehe

Interesting approach. I am not disagreeing about the genetics aspect, just the assumption that it is simply a missing chromosome. That hasn't been proven as a scientific conclusion. Regarding my not admitting to being bi-sexual -- Okay. If you want to believe what you want to believe, that is cool with me. You don't know me so how can you know I am telling truth? You are entitled to your theories. For me, application of a scientific law to human nature doesn't wash. Too many variables to take into consideration to create a blanket statement on a black and white supposition. But, I will not get off topic again and start a different discussion here. I will read your link when I have a few moments. Looks interesting.

I think Ruby is right. Many people have their own perceptions of what is right, wrong and immoral and what we are genetically predisposed to. I am not gay and I have never had a desire to be with women. However, I do find them attractive and sensual. I can appreciate the beauty of a woman, and enjoy it, even thought I don't want it. Women have a sense of intimacy and closeness that most men don't share. We can be affectionate and loving without needing to get laid. I have enjoyed the closeness of women but I have always desired men. I have thought a girl was hot and stared at her incredible body and been stunned by it. I don't go home and dream about it. Women are beautiful to look at, they are soft to the touch. I enjoy my body and I am OK with other women enjoying it. I think many people need to see things in black or white. If it doesn't fit into their comfort zone or box, than it is scary and wrong. WHy does any attraction have to be wrong, or any kind of connection for that matter? Why do we need so many limits and boundaries, because of the social implications? Out of fear of what isn't perceived as normal? Why would we be given such special bodies if we weren't supposed to enjoy them, male or female? We have no problem with approving violent video games and movies, but sex and sensuality scare the h@@! Out of people! Why? I don't think there is anything wrong with experimenting with your desires, as long as no one gets hurt or betrayed. WHy is porn such a big industry? Because people can look at things that they are interested in but are too scared or ashamed to do themselves. I am not really into that stuff, but I can see where it gets its allure. I just think that with women it is more about touch and stimulation, and it leads to a different, intimate experience. As with anything else, it is about finding balance. If you can experience something beautiful and appreciate for what it is, than that's all it is. If it becomes an obsession, as with anything, it can become damaging. Life is full of wonder, our bodies are part of that, how can that be wrong??

Some girls do it for αttention.. pretty sαd though if thαt how you wαnt to "win α guy over"

Young girls often engage in any kind of sex for the attention, love or acceptance of men. IT usually isn't about the sex, but the approval they get for doing it. That is why most girls are disappointed with sex when they are young because it isn't what they thought it was going to be. YOu are right though, look at the commercials for Girls Gone Wild. That is all about pleasing men visually. Most girls have fun with their friends, maybe they hug or kiss or grab jokingly, but to do it on camera like that , its totally for the guys. It is sad that girls don't value their bodies and what they mean. They give it away for nothing rather than seeing what a beautiful treasure it is. I don't think there is anything wrong with showing off your body, well hopefull you know what I mean. Girls do sexual things to please men, why not just do it to please yourself? A lot of them don't get that and they get used. It is difficult for a lot of girls to do things they want to do, or maybe they don't even know. So they do what their guy wants, or any guy wants. That is what's really sad.

Maybe a clear/general definition of bisexuality is in order here:

Bisexuality: A sexual orientation in which one feels attracted to both males and females

So when I hear things like:

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I am not gay and I have never had a desire to be with women. However, I do find them attractive and sensual.

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Im baffled. Even shatteredsouls entire post... if that's not characteristics of bisexuality, then I don't know what is

;)

The good thing is, you don't have to understand my perspective. It really is just that. I am completely comfortable of embracing feelings that I have, without the desire to act out on them physically and therefore they are just that, feelings. There is no definite accuracy to determine what attracts what to another. It is simply a feeling. It doesn't have to mean anything. Your own hang ups and feelings of discomfort are why you feel baffled. I do not feel guilty or embarrassed, I am simply being honest with the awareness of my feelings. I don't desire to sleep with women, live with women, or have an ongoing physical relationship with women. Therefore. I don't perceive myself as what you cal "bisexual". If that is what you believe it is, I have no judgement about that. I don't base my understandings in such limited terms, but I understand why you do. If I confuse you, I apologize. I adore men, their bodies and being with one in an intimate, physical, marital commitment. He too understands how I feel and is completely comfortable with it. It doesn't impact our relationship in a negative way and I am not dishonest. I respect his admiration for women, although mine is usually on a much more proper level. LOL I am just open to what my feelings are and that aren't shameful or wrong. I see women as beautiful, it isn't about being bisexual or straight.

Dr J, I think you are grasping at straws here. I interprete Shattered as stating that she is not sexually attracted to women, but that she appreciates their attractiveness and sensuality. It doesn't mean she feels the desire to have sexual contact.

Hmmmm...

I don't really see where our points of view differ here... more so just our way of expressing/explaining them.

The feelings expressed are exactly those of bisexuality... of course, its not black and white. There are different "levels" of bisexuality. People like Freud and Stekel argued that all humans were born bisexual.

For some info on the subject that isn't coming from a perceived "AMHD nutjob" take a look at this:

Bisexuality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

:)

First off, I do not think you are a nutjob. I have seen a number of your responses to people here and you have a good logical mind. I interpret bisexuality as having sexual desires towards both men and women. In this instance, it appears you are suggesting that her feelings are sexual in nature. They don't appear that way to me. Maybe it is the difference in the man/woman interpretation factor. I don't know. In any event, I don't trust Wiki completely to explain this. It appears a bit vague in its explanation. Here is a medical dictionary site: Bisexual definition - Medical Dictionary definitions of popular medical terms

As for me, as I said in an earlier post, I can appreciate a woman's attractiveness. But, it is not in a sexual way. It is more in the way of looking at a beautiful painting or a beautiful sunset. I will admit to saying, Wow, I wish I had her body. But it isn't in a sexual sense. It is in a envious state of mind. LOL. Now, with a hot looking young hard body (male), I will admit to lusting in my heart (ala Jimmy Carter). I have hit that age where I can look but to touch? Well, I would have to pay for it and, frankly, I am too cheap for that.

I love you Ruby

I love you too shattered. MWAH.

Oh oh. Dr J will think we are making out now.