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Originally Posted by cadillac59

It's not being closed minded at all. All I am saying I suppose it that a vast number of these so-called bisexual men out there are really just gay men who for any number of reasons have sex with women (maybe they are trying to prove they are not gay for example) - that we know to be true- and how do you differentiate those from the supposedly "real" bisexual ones who you insist exist? All I am saying is that I don't think there are truly any bisexual males anywhere. Men who have sex in prison, for example, are just typically straight guys who go back to women once released. They're not bisexual but often confused as such.

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Seems to me that you are speaking totally from your own personal experiences which is fine because everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't make it seem like you know what every single, gay, bi, straight, gay pretending to be bi or bi pretending to be gay, is feeling. Just because you had to go through the situation of marriage and then coming to the shocking realization that you were gay doesn't mean that there are no truly bi-sexual men out there. And the whole thing on men having sex in jail well that's a totally different scenario because you have to take into consideration the surroundings. You can't really use that as an example because the majority of guys in jail who have sex with other men are usually forced.

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Originally Posted by CuteKami782

Seems to me that you are speaking totally from your own personal experiences which is fine because everyone has a right to their own opinion. But don't make it seem like you know what every single, gay, bi, straight, gay pretending to be bi or bi pretending to be gay, is feeling. Just because you had to go through the situation of marriage and then coming to the shocking realization that you were gay doesn't mean that there are no truly bi-sexual men out there. And the whole thing on men having sex in jail well that's a totally different scenario because you have to take into consideration the surroundings. You can't really use that as an example because the majority of guys in jail who have sex with other men are usually forced.

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Of the other gay men I know, none report ever having met a guy who was truly bisexual. A high percentage of gay men say they once claimed to be bi themselves and told other people this only later to really come out of the closet (bi is sort of like having the closet door half open). Quite a few were married and probably the majority (an easy majority) have had sex with women in the past. I've asked some if they would ever have sex with a woman again and they all say, never. Just like I say I would never have sex with a woman again. So it's not just me. It's most gay men I've met who have had similar experiences and if you ask them if they think bisexuality exists they all say no. Bi today gay tomorrow.

I'm not offended by this post but I do think its close minded. Sexuality is what it is. You can't always put it in a box. Our conservative society makes us label everything, and when it comes to sexuality you're either gay, straight or bi. That's where the confusion lies, because you're trying to divide it. Just because I consider my orientation straight now is not to say that down the road sometime I may be attracted to a woman, even though I'm only attracted to men now. So then what would that make me?

So if a bi man has sex with a man on Monday, and with a woman on Tuesday, what does it make him? Gay on Monday and straigh on Tuesday? No, it makes him bi. That's the concept behind, that at some point you're with a man and then at another point you fall in love with a woman... It doesn't mean you've turned totally gay or totally straight it just means that at this point of your life you've fallen in love with this certain person. At least that's what I understand by being bi.

Like you said, cadillac59, you were always gay, never bisexual, you were married but from what you said you weren't really attracted to your wife were you? So okay, you were gay and confused, but apparently other men ARE attracted to their women, as well as they are attracted to other men. That's the difference. Yours is confusion, theirs is a true feeling.

This thread is very interesting to me in that a questioner states his own opinion in a logical, unemotional manner and asks for other opinions, and some people go off the wall.

I wonder why?

Anyway, I noticed that people may mention body parts that is why they are bisexual. People like the penis, the breasts, the vulva, the clitoris... and so on.

I think true homosexality and heterosexuality involves the entire individual and a person's feelings about that person/sex with that person. To me that is a person's identity... the powerful overwhelming experience whether homosexual or heterosexual. Playing with body parts for sexual release is broadening sexual experience and falls under the category of "fun".

Do you agree with me, anyone?

I ALSO said "passionate".

I don't believe that sex can be passionate without involving one's emotions.

I have been EMOTIONALLY involved with both women and men. I am aroused SEXUALLY by both women and men.

Frankly, I think it's the combination of BOTH that makes a person biseuxal.

Thanks for your comment, Syn.

I was thinking more of X-ray guy who *won't speak* to the questioner any more, and others who were very annoyed.

This doesn't seen like a touchy subject to me.

I've noticed a lot of anti bisexual feelings in the gay community where I live. It starts as the odd 'dirty bi' comment but there does seem to be a deeper mistrust with some people. It never fails to amaze me how some people who have been subjected to prejudice themselves turn around and do the same thing to others.

The same with heterophobia in gay clubs- I wouldn't hassle a gay person in another club, why should I be hassled? Ridiculous. Not that it bothers me I just think it is childish behaviour from people who should know better.

As for my own opinion on gay, straight or bi, I think sexuality is a fluid thing, a spectrum, just like most other natural characteristics. You are going to get you polar gays and straights and a bit of everything in between.

Super specific and informative, tem...

It's a touchy subject for one reason: People who ARE bisexual are being told that their feelings/sexuality are not valid.

It's sort of like being told you're not REALLY a woman if you can't have kids, or that all REAL men can sustain an erection and please their woman in bed, or whatever.

Saying that bisexuality doesn't exist to bisexuals is negating their experiences, and relegating their opinions to second-rate.

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Thanks for your comment, Syn.

I was thinking more of X-ray guy who *won't speak* to the questioner any more, and others who were very annoyed.

This doesn't seen like a touchy subject to me.

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Okay, you are really not helping Choux, you were a person I considered to have some ethics and maturity and sense about yourself, after that comment, however, I'm doubting your clarity on this subject.

YOU consider it to not be a touchy subject-you are not one of the people mentioned by the op as non-existant!

I am having real difficulties finding "experts" here who are really trying to "help".

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I think true homosexality and heterosexuality involves the entire individual and a person's feelings about that person/sex with that person. To me that is a person's identity... the powerful overwhelming experience whether homosexual or heterosexual. Playing with body parts for sexual release is broadening sexual experience and falls under the category of "fun".

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perhaps your concept of fun is what I call bisexuality? In this case maybe you are right.

I consider sexuality to be physical and psychological, or more prescisely as sexuality as being the more physical act and likes, while gender is the psychological "who you associate with mentally"

for instance, the real term for sexual identity for bi-sexual is actually bi-gendered. But half of the people here wouldn't understand the term. Put it this way, as you stated, the comments state more to a liking for the sexual apparatus of the same sex, I classify myself as not really liking to have physical sex with a man.

the term bi-sexual actually means two sexes in one, a hermaphrodite, we call that nowadays a "pre-operation transexual" so the terms used often are incorrect anyway.

my reason for not wanting to talk to the op goes back further than this discussion and there are many other incidences that you are not party too, call it silly, immature, whatever, YOU have not had my experience and YOU do not understand EXACTLY what has transpired.

The OP asked for replies, he was given them from the people he considers "non-existent" and he still continued to deride and push his opinions as well as attempt to convince others here that WE ARE CONFUSED ABOUT OUR SEXUALITY- HE was and is still confused about the diversity of sexuality that is present here. HE was living a lie, HE was confused and in denial about his homosexuality, and somehow we have to endure his continual barrage of bull$hit,

When will this "discussion" end?

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Originally Posted by templelane

I've noticed a lot of anti bisexual feelings in the gay community where I live. It starts out as the odd 'dirty bi' comment but there does seem to be a deeper mistrust with some people. It never fails to amaze me how some people who have been subjected to prejudice themselves turn around and do the exact same thing to others.

The same with heterophobia in gay clubs- I wouldn't hassle a gay person in another club, why should I be hassled? Ridiculous. Not that it bothers me I just think it is childish behaviour from people who should know better.

As for my own opinion on gay, straight or bi, I think sexuality is a fluid thing, a spectrum, just like most other natural characteristics. You are going to get you polar gays and straights and a bit of everything in between.

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I don't think sexuality is fluid at all, only that it can appear to be such if all you look at is behaviour.

I wouldn't say I have "anti-bisexual" feelings only that I think bisexuality in men (again not talking about women) just doesn't exist. Most "bisexual" men are really gay; some are straight. That's all. And I think the confusion lies in part in understanding that sexuality is about more than just having sex, it's about the totality of what makes you who you are. I'm gay and have sex with men but there's more too my identity it than just that. I would not for example say that I am in all respects just like a straight man except that I have sex with other men. No. Gay men are really a hybriad between straight men and straight women. We are males (and glad to be) just like straight guys but have brains that resemble more closely those of straight women (I mean physically on MRI scanning and autopsy). Yet we are not women trapped in a mens' bodies either and certainly would never want to have female parts (those folks are transexuals).

I liked your comments about heterophobia in gay clubs. I have to admit I'd prefer straight people not hang out in gay clubs because it seems half the time they are just there to gawk and they seem to desire mostly to show everyone how open-minded they are by hanging out "with the gay people." There are so many straight bars and clubs around can't they just leave us alone? That's my feeling about it. I like hanging around other gay males and gay people in general and would rather not have some straight guy with his girlfriend side-by-side in a bar. We get enough of the hetero world all day long (we have to live in it) and can't we just some some space that is all ours? (I like the gay bars that run gay porn- usually light porn-on the video monitors-- they tend to keep the straight folks away like bug repellant, but that's another subject).

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Originally Posted by Choux

This thread is very interesting to me in that a questioner states his own opinion in a logical, unemotional manner and asks for other opinions, and some people go off the wall.

I wonder why?

Anyway, I noticed that people may mention body parts that is why they are bisexual. People like the penis, the breasts, the vulva, the clitoris.....and so on.

I think true homosexality and heterosexuality involves the entire individual and a person's feelings about that person/sex with that person. To me that is a person's identity....the powerful overwhelming experience whether homosexual or heterosexual. Playing with body parts for sexual release is broadening sexual experience and falls under the catagory of "fun".

Do you agree with me, anyone?

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I am also surprised by the vituperation this subject has caused. I would never attack anyone and tell them how they feel or that their feelings are "invalid". No. I respect everyone's right to say who they are and what they are. That's not the point. I am merely talking in a general way about male sexuality and saying that it seems bisexual men are probably just gay men still partly in the closet (after all at least 40% of them end of later in life changing their minds and just coming out as gay) or straight guys who have tried sex with many different sorts of people of both genders and simply think that alone necessitates being labeled "bi."

I think if your Bi your not Transsexual so there is no confusion you just want both male and female in bed or vice versa at the same time or a three some relationship.

HA HA! That's great...

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Originally Posted by neverme

ya but not everyone has this luxury, btw i have a very good male friend that IS bi, i think bisexuality isnt necessarily a 50/50 male/female attraction. you may lean one way or another, and that may change throughout your life, i think its more about being able to engage in a sexual and romantic REAL relationship with either a man OR a woman..and being comfortable with it.

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Luxury? What luxury, deciding what you find arousing? I knew very early that I was gay and not only that, other people knew it too for some reaon.

Men are either gay or straight. If your friend "leans" in favor of males, he's gay.

I would like to say that I am sorry to the poster for posting such a hasty response (the angry one). It is not like me and I did not give the proper respect to the post or poster.

It's just that your post, to me, holds no water. And I get annoyed when someone is basically telling me that men like my friend don't exist. They do exist sir, I assure you. But, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm sorry if I wrote yours off.

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Originally Posted by hollylovesbrandon

I would like to say that I am sorry to the poster for posting such a hasty response (the angry one). It is not like me and I did not give the proper respect to the post or poster.

It's just that your post, to me, holds no water. And i get annoyed when someone is basically telling me that men like my friend don't exist. They do exist sir, I assure you. But, everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion and I'm sorry if I wrote yours off.

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Thanks for writing back. I'm not attacking your friend or anyone in particular or saying they are stupid or crazy or anything like that. Perhaps all I am saying is that he may say he is bi now (only he can say how he feels) but someday-- maybe 10 or 20 years from now- he's highly likely to say he's gay and never was bi (if he favors men that is) or straight if he favors women. That's typically how it turns out.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

Luxury? What luxury, deciding what you find arousing? I knew very early that I was gay and not only that, other people knew it too for some reaon.

Men are either gay or straight. If your friend "leans" in favor of males, he's gay.

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Yes it is a luxury some people have to spend their time trying to figure out what they are and then having to go and tell the people they care about about it.

And my friend is bi, your sweeping theories on sexuality are ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by neverme

yes it is a luxury some people have to spend their time tryin to figure out what they are and then havin to go and tell the people they care about about it.

and my friend is bi, your sweeping theories on sexuality are rediculous.

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It may be something women struggle with; it sounds like it's not uncommon with women perhaps. But that's just not the way men are. Sorry. We are completely different.
There might be a short transitional period in men deciding their sexual orientation but it usually doesn't last that long and is over fairly early in life. After that I think deniel or trying to change their sexuality from gay to straight explains allegations of bisexuality in men.