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Others can disagree but every time I hear about somebody being addicted to porn I also hear that they have a low sex drive. From some things I have read it has something to do with desensitizing them to where it takes more to turn them on. Sort of like getting tired of too much or quality vs quanity maybe---in a sense.
Well at 52 I can say he is no longer 18 with raging hormones that interfere with rational thought...Quote:
Originally Posted by l12
Some guys at 52 will still have a healthy sex drive but many are going to be tapering down for any number of reasons... none of them are porn related.
Couldn't you say the same thing about living to age 52? There are several things going on at that age. I suspect one starts to see themselves differently. In the "raging hormones" days, men pretty much do a quick eval of every woman they come in contact with... would I or wouldn't I. We think of sex first and it impacts the way we interact with women. Maybe it shouldn't be this way, but it is. I suspect women do the same, but they seldom admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
I their 50s, guys can't maintain the fantasy. Attractive women see them as "old farts". Men are sensitive to this. Plus, at the point where a guy has been past puberty for 30-40 years, there isn't much they haven't seen or at least heard about. Nothing much surprises them. The thrill is beginning to be gone.
Other factors can have an impact. Is the wife attractive? Is their sex life interesting? Is there stress in the job or the relationship? Has anything gone on between them that is a "put off"? It ought to be noted that a couple can be very much in love with each other with very little or no sex. It is possible for everyone to get there if they live long enough. For some people, the lack of interest in sex arrives earlier than for others.
I'm not saying any of this is germane to the porn question, but some of this might be an issue relative to the larger problem.
Short answer is that its not OK if its not OK with you.
Now for the long diatribe I seem to attach to all my posts after the quick hit.
When visual stimulation starts to potentially take away from the bedroom (time spent on porn), when it interferes with your sexual experience (you now mentally are worrying about something you aren't perfectly comfortable with), when it drives a wedge in the relationship (he is lying to you, you are feeling hurt)... it's a problem.
Porn isn't the primary issue here. It's a lack of sex/intimacy and being lied to. Porn is just a potential cause for distraction and the object of the lies. Certainly it adds insult to injury... its one thing if you get less sex because he is exhausted from work... its another if he seems to be fulfilling his mental desires elsewhere and then neglects you in the bedroom. If sex were fantastic and he were open about the porn, you might have some issues... but itd be a lot more tolerable I'm guessing.
You are really at the place where you either choose to stay and accept it to some degree, or you choose to leave. Sure... there are ways to track what sites he is visiting... but you don't need to do that... 5K images shows he is actively looking and deliberately collecting.
My grandfather had a stash of playboys years and years ago. Looking at images like this isn't new... its just evolved. Images are readily available, the selection is broad (pinup art to hardcore fetish), and the storage is easier to hide. You found the pics in that one folder... what about others? Hidden folders?
An "in-between" ill suggest from time to time is to find some interesting books about sex, sensual touch, etc... find something that seems interesting to you and share it. For ex, my partner discovered a good sex little book at barnes and noble about giving oral to a woman. That book contained (among other things) one little tip that changed her oral experience from her getting to orgasm most of the time in about 15 minutes to now always getting to orgasm and in less than 10 minutes. Point is... we found an interesting book, both read it, both shared ideas, and took it into the bedroom.
If you choose to stay, maybe you can engage him by finding reads on massage or sensuality to share.
If you decide to leave, you know you have nothing to feel guilty about. You want an intimate connection and you don't want to be lied to. OK.
Have you ever though maybe it could be you?
Maybe you need to think back when you guys first got together things that you talked about the way you wore your hair, and the way you dressed and most of all the way you looked at each other.
Maybe there is a little too much of the out doors.
Like you said you guys hiked a lot.
Maybe put on a nice dress and go out to a nice nightclub for the night would help.
Sometimes the same old thing everyday over and over gets old.
Maybe he does not see the woman in you anymore maybe he looks at you as just someone there to go on hikes with and there when he needs someone to talk to.
The porn is taking the place of something he had and lost somewhere in the past.
Why not meet each other on a date one evening and see where that takes you to.
Like I said something is missing and maybe you need to start with yourself first try getting out of thoes pants and thoes flannel shirts would be a start.
Don't give up on him he is still the man you once had he just lost his way.
Like someone mention find someone else is not the answer and more than likely that person is lonely and manless or has there own issues that need to be address before they give out advice.
On itself that may be so, or not. But that's not the issue here. The problem is not that he watches porno. The problem is that he lies to his partner about that. Which causes lack of trust. And that destroys any relationship. THAT is the problem!Quote:
Originally Posted by tracer357
;)
So after a year and a half we find a glitch that needs to be dealt with. Glad you haven't over reacted and have sought out advice and opinions, as that's a good sign that your willing to work it out. He does need confronting though not for the porn, but for lying to you. I think you have to acknowledge you know about it, and are not upset over it, but strongly question his need to lie to you. Its important that any relationship be conducive to expressing one's feeling honestly, no matter the subject. I suspect its more sheepish shame, than addiction though, and you seem open minded enough to not give it more fuel than it deserves, so work on making him comfortable, telling you anything on his mind. I think another poster had a good idea, watching a movie together. That may relax him enough to put the lying to bed, and behind you forever. There will be many issues to deal with in the future and the way you handle this one will define the relationship either positively, or hurt it severely, so be thoughtfully with your actions, as you have already shown here. Good luck.Quote:
Communication is critical to a healthy relationship.
Just an aside, Addiction is defined as any action that is causing a problem in your life, that you keep doing, despite the consequences.
In your case, besides the lying, its not indicated at this time, nor does the evidence support such a conclusion, but reserve judgment until you get to the root cause of his lying, and whether it can be addressed.
Keep in mind while some women get so indignant (far more than you appear to for example) about a little bit of porn watching from their male partner at the same time see nothing wrong with hours spent on the phone gossiping with their lady friends or spending hour after hour shopping when they need nothing. See my point here, it all in perspective.
How would you feel if he started demanding you stop gossiping and calling your lady friends? How about if you started to do it at the office or when you didn't think he was watching? Starting to see the parallel here? No adult likes another adault to dictate what they do for fun particularly when its safe and doesn't consume large portions of thair day.
And I would venture that women's gossiping is far more harmful in many ways than some casual porn viewing by an adult male.
Now this is assuming its not a computer that children have acess to.
Thanks for all the comments.
Regarding the suggestion by a couple posters to watch a porn movie together as a way to make him comfortable sharing his porn "habit" with me - I don't know that that would be helpful. I base this on the fact he enjoys viewing photos and has few movies (maybe 100 or so) on his computer (which were probably copied to his machine by his brother like he said). In addition, there have been a two or three times when we were watching Cinemax (Skin-emax) together, and after 10PM or so they frequently broadcast porn movies. On a few occasions, we watched together for 10-15 minutes before he got "disgusted" by the bad acting and fake boobs and "bimbo's" and wanted to turn it off instead of waste his time. I behaved interested but neutral at the same time toward the movie so as not to influence his reaction, but it was definitely HIS desire to turn it off. I wondered if he wasn't comfortable with me watching this with him, or perhaps it was exactly what he said - fake boobs and weak plots lines of the "typical" porno doesn't do it for him.
As far as the suggestion that the issue could be related to "me". We spend a lot of time together. I'm sure "familiarity" affects our relationship in both good and bad ways. Certainly, familiarity is a given in ANY long term relationship, but, I don't think that it automatically leads to keeping secrets from one another or a desire for one partner to spend time secretly looking at porn every day. I think he's probably been engaged in this habit since long before he met me and has really nothing to do with me or how I wear my hair (I grew it quite long for him as he likes it), or what I wear (often skirts or something cute - no flannel in this wardrobe even though we both like outdoor activities). I have to believe he'd still look at porn even if I was 18 and posed naked for a living (I'm not and I don't).
I am trying very hard to not over react to this situation, however, I definitely go back and forth in my mind as to how serious a situation this might be. Unless you've been lied to for a year by your significant other, it's hard to describe the conflicted feelings this kind of secret brings about once discovered. He's the same person I loved all along - however, if he he has no qualms keeping this a secret then what else is he hiding? The answer very well might be "nothing", however, it opens the door to all kinds of doubts and possibilities I'd never considered before. The genuine feelings I have towards him become cynical whenever I think about how he quickly pretends to be emailing a client when I damn well know he was just downloading porn before I entered the room (this morning).
On the other hand, his life doesn't appear to be dominated by looking at porn 24x7, so, by some people standards, he's not "addicted", however, how do I know it isn't somehow responsible for his low sex drive (though, to be honest I have to report this has been a good week - 3 times in the past 5 days). I attribute this to the fact that I've been going out of my way to engage him by laying around naked, but, I still feel like we're always on the verge of slipping back into old habits of not engaging each other sexually for up to 2 weeks at a time, if it were left up to him.
His business has also suffered a serious setback that last 4 years - he claims it is through no fault of his own, which, knowing the vast number of variables involved in getting jobs (flaky clients, bad deals), I tend to believe him and not want to draw any connection to the porn "habit" (though 4 years ago was when his last live-in girlfriend moved out). However, a 50% (or MORE) decrease in income is dramatic - I can't know for sure it isn't related to a loss of motivation due to addictive behavior? It's not like he's be honest with me *if* that were the cause! Without any evidence, it's probably unfair to think this but the thought did pop into my head.
As far as the suggestion that this is somehow on par with spending hours gossiping with girlfriend - I get where you're going with this line of reasoning and I don't necessarily disagree that it may be applicable in some cases. However, I never had a chance to complain and "drive him underground" re his porn habit, since he's always denied it, before I moved in and after I caught him, and after repeating on several different occasions that I didn't think there was anything bad about looking at porn.
He does complain that I spend too many hours (we've even gotten in a huge fight about it one time) instant messaging with 2 of my very closest friends (both women I've known for over 10 years), which now, in retrospect I see as very hypocritical. Certainly, there is arguably more "value" to maintaining close personal contacts in life that there is to compulsively viewing close up images of a strangers vaginas hours on end. As I am new to this area (I moved here to be with him) I don't have a lot of friends locally, and these women are on par with sisters to me.
However, since "the fight", I don't message them or spend much time on the computer once he ends his work day, despite the fact that they mainly available during evening hours. I haven't EVER hidden the fact that I am messaging if he happens upon me doing so, and will even relate the conversations I'm having to him if I think he'd find them interesting. Believe me, if there was ever a reason for a person to hide an activity, I would be hiding this since it it blew up into an argument that had me looking at "apartments for rent" ads for a few days afterward. But, I don't hide it (though I minimize it around him) because I stand firm knowing that there is nothing wrong with spending time to stay in touch with close friends in whatever way I prefer, which happens to be instant messaging these days. There's nothing deceitful about modifying your behavior around your partner if some particularly behavior annoys them. It's not the same thing as lying.
It does not escape me that this particular behavior is so common amongst the male population that even if I decided to end the relationship, that the next one wouldn't also be similarly affected - which I suppose if they were up front from the beginning I would at least KNOW and could decide to accept or reject it depending on the parameters of use and wouldn't have to go through feeling so conflicted. I just haven't known before that I needed to quiz prospective partners on their porn viewing habits, trusting that if it were an issue it would be obvious, not hidden. (I guess that's a bit naïve - I must update my list of "obvious" questions to ask a date 1) Are you married? 2) Do you have a girlfriend? 3) What are your porn viewing habits?)
I have to admit that I don't understand why (many) men tend to collect such a LARGE amount of porn and still need/want/like to download hundreds more (he's just about up to 20,000 images - the 5,000 I discovered was a while back and was probably an incomplete count). Perhaps someone can explain to me (I mean this seriously). I guess this would be less of an issue for me if he wasn't "actively collecting" - just had what he had and didn't feel like he needed to download more almost every day at risk of being caught by me. I can't imagine he even KNOWS what he has or can remember specific pics to go back and look at. The amount of porn perplexes me because it makes it seem compulsive, as opposed to having a purpose (for example, downloading a few hundred images to masturbate to). Porn is available 24x7 on the internet, and since your only going to look at a few hundred even in a 2 hour session, why do people need to collect so MUCH of it that it exceeds any useful purpose?
To my mind, it's not comparable to women owning 50 pairs of shoes or 100 purses (Imelda Marcos being an exception and she WAS mentally ill). Because shoes are occasion specific (as are purses), one needs multiple pairs, and even if you have pairs that duplicate each other in purpose (10 different high heels) there are usually differences in color, or fit (that you might not discover till after you purchase and wear it and are now stuck with an uncomfortable shoe so you end up buying another one). Even so, a woman could wear 50 different pairs of shoes in the course of a year if she rotated every 7 days. You'd have to look at 55 pics of vaginas and asses EVERY day to view all 20,000 in a year (and not be downloading any new). I guess this seems "reasonable" to some people, but, I have to admit to finding this a bit shocking and question how healthy it can be to be preoccupied to such a degree with images of genitalia, even if it's not preventing you from living a "normal" life, particularly if you are hiding it. Not that he's looking at that many a day (can't know for sure how many he looks at in a day), but you see my point.
No children has access to the computer in question.
I realize the only way to find my way through this mess is to confront him, focusing specifically about the lying, however, I can't completely ignore the quantity of images he has saved and the "active collecting" that is going on. I haven't decided how I feel about this yet - what exactly to say to him about the "quantity" but I definitely find something alarming about it.
I don't think that the Quantity of porn he has collected says anything about hid addicting. It is very similar to what you said about shoes... porn can be occasion specific, and even if you have porn that duplicate each other in quality and act performed, they can still be a different "fit". Just like wearing shoes, there is a different porn for different feelings, urges, emotions, and occasions. He may never know what it is that he wants to view until he downloads a bunch and rummages through them for the good ones.
I am not saying that he isn't addicted, but I am saying that I don't think it's as serious as you may be lead to believe.
Also, the lying is still unacceptable. If this was his habit, and he was still the truthful, caring, loving, sexual man you first met, then obviously it wouldn't be a problem. I honestly don't think you should confront the issue of "quantity" in speech with him, unless he starts to deny that he has "so much". Then you must prove it to him. Do talk to him about it consuming his time (if it does) and how it takes away from your sex life... even though from the sound of things you might not want to confront him on such a good week. :)
Could this be a sign as to where you need to focus on the communication side? Lying is unacceptable, but many couples keep their secrets, just to avoid a reaction from their partners, or to just do their own thing in peace. Guys use to fish, or go golfing, or something that doesn't involve the female, and have guy fun. With the internet, sky is the limit. (never had the net in my day, but did have a nice collection of porn cassettes, darn kids changed my whole life) but it was not unusual for healthy males, to have playboy in their garages, or stuck in the back of a closet, back in the day. For sure you could spend time worrying but a better option, is tell him you know and ask bluntly why he lied,
Even though I laughed my a$$ off at that comment, nowadays its very true, and something to be asked upfront, and early on.Quote:
I must update my list of "obvious" questions to ask a date 1) Are you married? 2) Do you have a girlfriend? 3) What are your porn viewing habits?)
Well From a guys perspective its going to be nearly impossible to justify more than a couple handbags or more than 6-7 pairs of shoes. Besides... those cost a nice chunk of money cumulatively. While porn is free... plus with broadband connections (yeah I remember 1,200 baud modems extremely well) and when a 40 meg hard drive was normal. Back then the effort to get hundreds if not thousands of photos was quite high, and that many photos took up a big portions of those hard drives. Today you can get 500 gig drives for $100 and broadband internet is fairly common the effort to delete things from otherwise unneeded drive space far excedes the effort to get them.
In other words if he has a 500 gig drive, but applications only use 100 gig of that space , then why the issue if he has 500, or 500,000 pictures on it? Like you said... no kids have acess to it so that's a non-issue.
If as I understand he is self employed you can be damn certain the guys is seriously stressing over the 50% drop in work and income, I know I would be, because I've been there before. And you can be darn certain stress like this will affect most guys. Maybe not all, but a large portion particularly if that income is despirately needed.
From someone who found out and stuck around:
Porn is not all bad but when your husband or boyfriend develops an obsession there is nothing you can do about it, and unless they want to , they can't either.
I deal with this constantly, and now that we are married I can't back out. If you are thinking about getting out of it, and you still can withouth breaking yourself in two- then do it. Go, this probably won't get any better.
He is definitely addicted. It happens with porn much like drugs. You start slowly and then you have to have more and more...
If he has his fist and porn, what does he need you for? Dump the bum before even more problems develop (and they will to be sure). Regardless of how you look at the situation, this guy is a real jac*off.
Does it effect your sex life? I'm trying to stop looking at these things but I know now I have triggers, and that could be anything on the news, or something in a poster that suggests something to me. It is difficult but I try to avoid it. My lass doesn't know, I don't want her to know because I don't like it and it would only hurt I'm sure. She knows I like certain types of women and that I'm open about that, but we have been working on our relationship and that is motivation enough to work out of it. It if affects your relationship it has to stop or be curtailled. What are the triggers? If it's him heading up to his room without you, could you spend some time with him at that critical time some days?
I wonder how many women with closets full of clothes that can't go for a week without wandering the Malls looking for stuff they don't need.
If looking at more than a couple naked women is addiction then wantering the malls when you need nothing definitely is as well.
I thought it wasn't really a problem until I confronted him again about it by showing him something he had looked up... told him I don't care if he does. Just don't deny it.
Then, while being intimate, I realized that he could only stay hard when I was doing to him the thing he looks up... I questioned him and he got offensive... WHAT to DO?
Give him an ultimatum. That's really the only choice right now. Unless you want to try counseling, my guess would be he won't do counseling because he doesn't know there is a problem.
I think you both might have other issues that so far remain undiscovered and undiscussed. And he was being nice by not bringing them up. You might not be aware of what they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by l12
How did you question him? When? Bad sex is mostly communication, or the lack thereof.Quote:
Then, while being intimate, I realized that he could only stay hard when I was doing to him the thing he looks up... I questioned him and he got offensive... WHAT to DO?
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