I have a alcoholic son. When he drinks he become functionless. He is a binge drinker. He can not work. I am trying to help him. Nothing is working. What should I do to help him. Should I kick him out? Please let me know my options.
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I have a alcoholic son. When he drinks he become functionless. He is a binge drinker. He can not work. I am trying to help him. Nothing is working. What should I do to help him. Should I kick him out? Please let me know my options.
Is there a reason for why he drinks so much alcohol? Does he realise that he has a problem? Sometimes drinking excessive amounts of alcohol can be related to underlying issues that haven't been properly addressed. Perhaps try speaking with him and ask him why he gets drunk so often. He needs to realise that he needs help before help is given in the form of alcohol support services. If he doesn't want help then there isn't anything you can do, you need to do what's best for you to keep a happy home. Hope his helps a bit
Thanks nurse86 for replying my post. Something happened long time ago. Now he is saying he has been drinking from ten years. It is hard to quit. He is trying and fail. He tried AA and other services but nothing help. Some people saying we should kick him from the house then he will learn the lesson. They are saying we are enabling him. Yes he realize that he has problem. He is saying I want to quit but I am unable to do so. When he does not drink then he is very hard working person.
The fact that he recognizes a drinking problem is very important. Don't be disillusioned by the fact that he didn't embrace AA. Most problem drinkers don't. Here is another resource that is worth a try:
SMART RecoveryŽ states that participants learn tools for addiction recovery based on the latest scientific research and participate in a world-wide community which includes free, self-empowering, secular and science-based, mutual-help support groups. This group emphasizes that it is non-12-Step, and is recognized by American Academy of Family Physicians, as well as the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)* and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)*. (agencies of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), a component of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. >LINK
There is also a book that has received very favorable comments, Get Your Loved One Sober: Alternatives to Nagging, Pleading, and Threatening. >LINK I'm sure this is available through your local library as well. This provides you with means and methods to proactively assist your son.
The very last thing I suggest is threatening, disowning or rejection of any type. Family and social support is a common element in those that recover from Alcohol Use Disorders.
I think its important to make sure that support is continued and to not stop after the first hurdle. He needs to somehow break the drinking cycle and have something to aim for
Thanks DrBill 100 and nurse86 for information. I did join Al non meetings and I learn from there that I am enabling him to drink. He is a very smart young man. He get accepted in medicine and destroyed everything with binge drinking. We are trying to get focus on something. So he does not go into any depression. When he does not drink he can study for hours and workout. After one sip of alcohol he can not stop drinking. Then he drinks straight 10 to 15 days. He read this post and he will try for smart recovery tomorrow. Now he is saying his cravings are so strong he can not stop. When he start drinking he can not think and just end up in LCBO. He always break the drinking cycle and after sometime end up there. He is helpless for this cycle. According you we should give him family support. It means I am not enabling him.
What you have described is not "enabling".
You may also want to look into a couple of other methods:
1) The Sinclair Method. >LINK
2) Dr Ameisens System. Baclofen. A drug with a long history for treating spasticity, a muscle relaxant. Later, it came into wide use in alcohol detoxification. Dr Oliver Ameisen, a French cardiologist and himself an alcoholic, was the first to report that it is useful in treating alcoholism by diminishing the desire for or reward of drinking. Ameisen wrote a book on his experience End of My Addiction and interest in this drug has continued to expand. There are now supporting studies of it's efficacy for that purpose. 2010 LINK The most recent information is from University of Glasgow >LINK
These methods require a prescribing physician and in the US few are familiar with the respective uses. Both have been proven effective, but not for everyone. The key is that Alcohol Use Disorders can be treated but it sometimes takes a lot of perseverance.
Thanks for replyingDrBill 100 He did use Baclofen and disulafiram and for craving medicine Revia. May be he has no Will power to stop. I think he is under depression too because lost everything. He tries but every time failed. His Mcat score are not good anymore. He bought again Mcat books last month and again start drinking. I think now he is giving up. I do not blame for this. We are saying your whole family standing for help try again. Yet we are helpless for everything.
DrBill 100 I emailed your post to him.
Depression and drinking disorders are inextricably linked. It's the chicken and egg scenario. Excessive alcohol leads to depressive episodes and depression leads to more drinking. Which came first or to what extent one may be causing the other is impossible to determine until several months of abstinence is achieved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
It is very important not to lose hope because one method fails. Disulfiram has been around for more than 50 years. Except for very short term use it is worthless. It has no therapeutic value.
ReVia (Naltrexone) has no independent therapeutic value. The research on this drug is damning and demonstrates uniform ineffectiveness at reducing craving for alcohol. The same can be said for Acamprosate. Naltrexone is no longer recommended for use except in conjunction with intensive counseling. I assert that if one will eat one pinto bean per day and adhere to a intensive counseling regimen some improvement will result. So it is with Naltrexone.
So you have tried two methods that simply aren't effective. That does not point to the chronicity or severity of the problem, although such failures are often converted to hopelessness and can thereby worsen prognosis by feeling one is destined to failure. That nothing can help. If all these systems didn't work, it must be hopeless... May as well give up.
Not so.
I am interested in the Baclofen... who recommended that and at what dosage?
I will say that there is a fine line from enabling and helping.
He is living at home, who is paying for his cell phone ? His iPod, and so on, what does he do all day, play video games
Does he work around the house,help clean, do his own laundry , help cook his meals.
Does he have a car, who pays the bills, who pays insurance and gasoline,
Who pays for all the things he drinks if he is not working.
If you are putting one penny toward things he needs to pay for his self, it is the start of enabling.
I am not an expert in this matter just suffered greatly due to some real world experience. Just something to consider and this was related to me by a highly qualified physician--one common factor about alcoholics is their short lives. If the son is driving, it is just a matter of time before tragedy strikes and the tragedy can last a lifetime, whether it is another driver or the drunken driver. You have an upper hand here that we did not have. We didn't realize there was a problem for him with alcohol and we kick ourselves for not knowing that, and not doing every possible thing we might have been able to do about it. Kicking him out based on our experience is the worst thing you could do right now. Our son was living with a male friend 100 miles away from us and not one of his many friends had the courage to tell us what was going on. Again you have an advantage in seeing for yourself pretty much continuously what is going on. I have known at least two binge drinkers extremely well---if that is the proper term for the "one sip and drink til you run out of all the money you can beg borrow or steal" type drinker. One of them went 15 years without a sip, totally squared away with work and family-- then had a small crisis at age 74 and went straight to the sauce. We were lucky to have some friends who could help us get him committed to a unit for 30 days, and he lived another 6 years without any incidents.
You have gotten some excellent input above. But I will just add that no matter how bad you perceive it to be now, it will pale in comparison to a state trooper on your porch at 7 AM delivering some bad news of some type or another.
Thanks DrBill 100 You were asking for Baclofen. It was prescribed by Psychiatric with the advice of alcoholic specialist.
I should have clarified earlier, but do you live in US? Also do you know dosage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
smearcase first off all I want to say thanks who spend time on my problem. What you wrote it is answer of my questions. We were debating to kick him out. I know it is hard for parents to ignore their kids. Thanks for such a nice advice and I will follow this with my whole strength.
Fr_Chuck thanks for your input. He is a student and score highest marks in Mcat. He can study hours to hours. I can say he is very smart kid. Now he is not that person anymore. He tries his best but every time fails. It was the reason we are debating with ourselves what should we do for this problem. He is not working but he did work with big firm. Something happened which changed his life completely. As parents we have no direction to follow but I hope everyone can guide us with their advice. If he were normal kid it must be easy for us to ignore him. He scored highest marks in GPA. He worked so hard in school and university. At the end he give up everything to binge drinking.
You are the leading expert in such matters. Clinicians make disinterested third-party intellectual interpretations... you lived it. We can learn far more from you than you from us.Quote:
Originally Posted by smearcase
The pre-eminent problem in drinking disorders is that practitioners and researchers spent so much time talking at patients and their families that we failed to learn from them.
Excellent empathic advice...
DrBill100 Baclofen dosage 20mg and we live in Canada.
I suggest reading up on Baclofen. It is my understanding that it is effective only at high dosage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
That was my first clue that you weren't in US. Here it is very difficult to obtain a prescription as very few doctors have any idea of it's off-label use.
DrBill100 Then how much dosage should be for Baclofen per day.
What you said it is very true according you we are enabling him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Here is a website for Baclofen that allows for e-mail inquiries. I am not familiar with the recommended dosage due to lack of use in US. Entirely dependent on research studies wherein recommendations are varied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
Baclofen
In my family every male drink. Everyone have really successful life. My son who is binge drinking and alcoholic. Please let me know is alcoholism a genetic disorder.
The Mayo clinic lists Family History as a risk factor.
Alcoholism: Risk factors - MayoClinic.com
This research says that there is a genetic link that influences impulse.
Scientists explore new link between genetics, alcoholism and the brain
Forget Alcoholics Anonymous(AA) because its success rate is only about 5%. That is, only about one of every twenty alcoholics get sober through its program.
The non-profit St. Jude Program has an independently certified long term success rate of 62%. Learn more at http://www.soberforever.net/vara.cfm
In addition to the excellent information provided by LadySam, above:
Here is a very informative history of the science behind the genetic theory of alcoholism. If you don't want to read it all you can skip to the section Alcohol and Genes.
Blum, 2007 Reward Deficiency Syndrome
While I understand your need to explain why your son behaves as he does, it is important to realize that abusive drinking is an immediate problem.
If alcohol abuse is ultimately determined to be of genetic origin or influence that may provide some therapeutic guidance. That doesn't help now.
Your son can be helped. He seems amenable to obtaining the needed help. Those are the pre-eminent facts. The remainder seems to me distant and pale in comparison.
Most abusive drinkers do recover therefore it can be asserted that they are not doomed by their genes. The key is attention to the immediate needs so they can survive long enough to eventually achieve abstinence.
Ref.
NIAAA, Spectrum, Alcoholism isn't what it used to be.
YourAnswer Thanks for information. He is Canadian. Soberforever is for American.
The St. Jude Program has off campus help for people anywhere in the world.
YourAnswer Thanks for reply I called 1.888.424.2626 this number and they said we do not have anything in Canada.
We are in trouble. He is saying it is hard to quit his cravings are too strong. If he breaks this circle then he knows he can not drink. Before he always keep hope he can drink. He starts on May 4th and continue. When he does not drink he keeps himself very busy. His mind always in drinking but he ignore the situation. He is saying his mind always tell him drink drink only this music in his ears all the time. One way it is very hard life for him. Now he give up and depressed. His all friends are doctors or lawyers. He lost everything with drinking and now he is not talking with anyone. It is shameful act for him.
The feeling that he has to have the hope of future drinking guaranteed may disappear after he has gone through a program (I keep hearing 30 days minimum). I have a very good friend who went into a U.S. Veterans' Administration program which was supposed to be 30 days but talked his way out in about 15 days. This guy is a salesman and is superb at talking anybody into anything. He was back into substance abuse within a month (or less). He says the VA used suboxone for alcholoics but I never have been able to determine if that was true- Dr. Bill? ).
Is there any way under your laws to have him committed to a facility for mandatory treatment. That had to be done by court order when the person I knew was committed, but I had a friend who was a police officer that helped by testifying. Dr. Bill told me I am an expert based on my personal experience and I appreciate that but I won't really make that claim. But I believe that your son needs some expert physical and mental health treatment. You didn't say whether he drives. I hope not.
smearcase I hope his drinking habit disappear. He never drive whenever he drink. Today I called ambulance and send him in hospital. I told them his mentally condition is not stable. Lets hope for the best. I am looking for direction yet reach no where. Hope one day he realize.
My son went to hospital. I met his doctor. My son is a alcoholic. When doctor was talking do not drink for ever. You have no control over alcohol. He was repeating if I relaps then what happened. Doctor was saying 80% people relaps and 20% never relaps. You should be in 20% people. I think he always keep his window open for drink or all alcoholic people think this way. Please let me know.
It's difficult to argue with the advice of this doctor. Most people lapse or relapse (actually about 93%) and only a very few do not (7%)... keep yourself in those that do not relapse and you'll be fine (or at least sober).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
Of course that begs the larger question of how do we (or does he) accomplish that end. Certainly not by reciting statistics, tired platitudes or looking for a common thought pattern that applies to all problem drinkers.
Have you or your son looked into any of the resources I previously furnished?
DrBill100 Yes I looked these resources but he was busy for drinking. He quit on May 18th and now like before he will be sober for 2 to 3 months. DrBill he studied for alcoholism but when he did relapls everything useless for him. This time he starts on May 4th to 18th. After two three months he becomes so confident and he thinks he can drink now. DrBill 93% is very high percentage. It means alcoholic people can not quit. He always scares from relaps. His therapist advised him if with mistake you drink just drink for one day and quit. He never listen to anyone. This time he was very aggressive. We tried our best to keep him under control. One day he was so drunk he could not move and then I called ambulance and send him hospital. They kept him there for few days. Now he is again sober and will be for few months. Every time we think he will learn from mistake. I hope one day will come.
Relapse does not indicate no recovery. The 93% figure is derived from those that have been treated for alcohol abuse. What can be derived from the figure is that relapses are to be expected and frustrating as it may be must be dealt with and then proactive measures taken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
I think I provided this previously, if not here it is. Alcoholism Isn't What It Used To Be
As you will note there is a very high rate of recovery from AUDs despite the intermittent relapse rate. That is all part of the bigger picture, syndrome if you prefer. It means that on the road to recovery there will probably be a lot of pot-holes.
It is very easy to get disillusioned, to develop negative expectations, and want to give up. To think that it is hopeless... It's not.
While your son is sober you must act now to prolong that sobriety, maybe prevent the next lapse.
Dr.Bill 100
He said that he is not going to drink any more. He said If he ever lapse again, he would die. This time he said, "Do not talk with me regarding alcohol as this is constant reminder to him for drinking. During the drinking, his personality completely changed & he does not listen to anyone. He does not know how to get out of alcohol. This time, If we do not watch closely, he could die from drinking. When he starts, he can not stop. He gets up drink again, gets up drink again... sleeping & stayed in the bed all the time. He is not social person any more. He contains to himself, this is not good at all. Although, he has started MCAT preparation again from yesterday. He also wrote this exam 6 years ago & passed with very high marks.
He drinks so heavily if he would not stop, one day he would die.
As a child and grandchild of family that have and still are recovering and who also has had a stint in rehab myself that sound like the percentanges that I have heard from rehab and that I have also seen drop out of programs like AA. A sad number relapse repeatedly before it sticks for them (hopefully), some don't get to that point. But the part of the no control over alcohol is absolutely true for the rest of their lives. Best of luck to your son, it's a hrd long road!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy15
Shellmae80 Thanks for your input. He is not realizing main concept of no control over alcohol. He always thinks he has control over alcohol. His therapist told him that you do not have control over alcohol. If you relapse just drink for one day and do not drink next day. I am really feel sorry for alcoholic people. General people do not understand their problem. This is a horrible disease. Everyone suffer in family. Hope one day they will find the cure.
Hi any updates on your son's recovery. I am hoping for the best for him and your family. I personally know what it is like to spend the night scared hoping he makes uneventfully through a night (or weekend) of heavy drinking, and like you I feel so powerless over not being able to help recover my son from his addiction. I am a mom also worried about my son, and when I read your story is so similar to mine, with my son who is also preparing for Mcats, has top grades at school,in fact he has been told unofficially that he will be accepted at his undergrad school's Medical school. So this is like a dream come true for him in so many ways, I just can't 'understand why he needs to be drinking to dangerously high levels weekend after weekend. For a little while he began to add "days" to the weekend cycle for a for example adding Thursdays but for now I was able to convince him to stop adding days to this drinking cycle, so he "on" drinking mode Fri- late Sun / till morning hours of Monday.. He has this cycle going on every weekend where he will drink as much as possible and as quickly as possible then gets into this very dark depressed mode until he repeats the drinking again the next day. He has recognized at time that he does have an issue controlling drinking but as much as I beg him to see a mental health counselor, or therapist, or AA, rehab, ANYTHING that can help him realize that he can overcome this, he refuses and has been leaving me very little in terms of options... I have asked him to move out of the house because I live literally scared and unsafe in my own home (we have had the cops here three times to calm him down). In our home I am a recovering alcoholic myself (5 years straight sober) but prior to that I had many shorter periods where I abstained from drinking from time to time, but none lasting this long. I cannot count on his father for support because he himself is also a medical doctor too and drinks pretty heavily when he is off even though he has ascites in his belly stemming from alcoholic hepatitis.
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