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Dr. Bill, thanks for the info... that's why I'm so cautious to maintain that 80-hr. window. I even bought a self-testing device, so I know when my BAC is back to 0, in time for the 80-hr. window begins again. That was the origin of my original question; as long as the limit is 80 hours, I guess I should be safe... I'm young and my liver is healthy. Fortunately I don't have much longer to go in this program, another few weeks.
A guy in my program claimed he had a few O'Doul's on a weekend (Sat.-Sun.), then got test on a Thursday afternoon and was positive for Etg's. I get the feeling he's full of it. Anyone think it's possible for him to be telling the truth?
O'Douls contains alcohol in the range of .3%. I don't doubt that he tested positive on an EtG test... but the two factors are unrelated.
Ask him the reading (ng/ml) which had to be provided on a positive. It was either error or attributable to another source.
I wonder how Dr Gregory E Skipper MD who brought the ETG method of testing to the US, What testing did he do , other than following a German Study. Surely as a Graduate from Univ of Alabama in Chemistry, and Medical School, he should have done a better study in providing a proper Base line for the ETG Range. But knowing Gregory E Skipper history as extroverted individual, and being hired by the Alabama Board of Medical Examiners as the Medical Director of the Alabama Physician Health Program, and his cavilier ways of bringing physicians,into his program ( Job Security) and his misdirection of information about Alcohol/Drug Addiction as a so called Expert one should ask has anybody checked his credentials ?
Skipper primarily collaborated with F. Wurst in research. Skipper himself had no background in research. Since, as you note, he introduced the test to the US, I have always assumed his listing on the studies was for the purpose of establishing credibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnetg
I have mixed feelings about Dr. Skipper. He seems to make available even the adverse findings in EtG research, he openly admits that the commercial use of the test has extended well beyond the science, yet he continues to promote such usage.
Interesting discussion.
I had friends in from out of town and they are truly serious drinkers, and I got swept away with them and consumed rather a lot of alcohol. I'm sure my BAC was very high. This occurred on both Saturday and Sunday nights, well into the wee hours on Sunday. I am subject to a urine test at a probation meeting on Wednesday morning. Approximately 45 hours will have elapsed since I estimate my BAC to have returned to 0.
I am wondering a couple of things. Firstly, what is the likelihood that the method used will be EtG testing? That is, is there another method of testing urine for alcohol consumption that is more widely used, or is it likely going to be EtG testing? Is EtG testing pretty standard these days? I am in Texas.
Second, although I understand that A) this information is not being provided as a way to help someone beat the test and B) individual metabolism varies greatly, I am nevertheless (I think understandably) curious what you think my chances are of passing this test, and if there is anything I can do to tip the scales in my favor.
I am 40, female, of normal weight, in good physical condition (fit, trim, and somewhat muscular), a regular drinker although not generally to the excess seen this past weekend. When last tested, probably 6 months ago during a routine physical, my liver function was normal. This might sound silly, but I do Bikram yoga 4 or 5 times a week - this is yoga performed in a hot room (105+ degrees F and 40% humidity). I sweat profusely during this. I generally drink about 60 ounces of water before 10 am. I haven't done any yoga since this binge drinking episode but am planning to both tomorrow and again on the day of the test. If I were to, say, consume a gallon of water tomorrow, and do my yoga, then do yoga again on the day of the test, do you think I have a shot? Would it be better for any reason *not* to do the yoga?
Also, if anyone could further elaborate on the fructose effect, I would be so very appreciative.
I'm actually a good person - on the whole, a kind, thoughtful, productive member of society and I feel very, very foolish and ashamed right now and am utterly petrified of failing this test. Thank you for your time and for all of the amazing information.
Currently, most alcohol tests are EtG.
On average, EtG clearance following heavy drinking session will be in the vicinity of 70 hrs >.
Every factor you mention above, exercise, heat (perspiration), and water consumption accelerates alcohol metabolism and elimination. The greatest weakness of EtG testing is the hydrophilic nature of the metabolite. It is water soluble. Just as alcohol rapidly dissolves into water so it's metabolite EtG. (Ex. Dahl, etal)
The problem with reliance on averages as relates to EtG is the small amount of research available and the fact that most studies have used male subjects, non-representative groups and variant standards.
Fructose effect. It has been known since at least 1937 that fructose accelerates the metabolism of ethanol (Carpenter & Lee 1937). The mechanism remains unknown but the phenomenon has been confirmed by several subsequent researchers and is now well established. The extent of the acceleration seems to vary (from 30-300%) with most studies falling in the range of 50-100% (see Onyesom & and Anosik, 2004)
It is important to note that a great deal is known about alcohol (ethanol) metabolism but very little about EtG which is a by-product of the metabolic process. So the fact that fructose accelerates the clearance of ethanol, that ethanol is eliminated in sweat (and any process that accelerates metabolism) doesn't necessarily mean that the same processes apply to EtG, a metabolite. While it is assumed... I know of no research specifically addressing this distinction.
Nonetheless, you seem to have found the most effective methods for eliminating the alcohol and EtG, "tipping the scales in your favor." There is no research on defeating the test and I have never looked into that. The information I have cited is a result of research conducted to prove the efficacy and reliability of the test.
If I were to rely entirely on research it seems unlikely that EtG would not be present and detected at the time cited. But another factor now known is that individuals produce EtG at variable rates, between individuals as well as within the same individual at different times. The relationship between amount consumed and EtG produced is very weak. There is so little known of EtG that it is astounding this test is so widely used... but it is.
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