There are various Scriptures in the old testement that clearly states that the dead are asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, And in the new testment it says something entirely different. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 & 9:6 it states clearly that the Dead are just asleep and that they have no more conscious and no more love or hate as their memory has been wiped out. It even states something similar in Job 14:12, also in psalm 146:4 .

Now the New Testement states something different, In Luke 16 Verses 19 to 31. It clearly states how the Dead were very much conscious, even about their own living relatives, it is given the impression that the Spirit goes to Hades when it departs. Even in 1 Peter 3 verses 19 to 20 it says how Jesus went to preached to the Spirits in Prison, which means there is a spirit prison that the Spirit goes to when it departs. And in 1 Peter 4 Verse 6 it clearly states that Jesus even preached the Gospel to the Dead, which means they cannot be sleeping if Jesus is preaching to them. That is why the Bible is very hard to understand and this site alone clearly backs up the old testement.

The Truth About Death
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Hello sorrow, you missed the scripture that is for the church, read 1 thessalonians chapter 4 verses 13--18 the apostle paul explains to the church that those that are in christ have not died but sleep until his coming.

Also does anyone know if, when the 2nd coming of Christ comes, will all of us know each other, meaning will I be together again with my mother and father ? Who I miss so much.

Also how does that explain about Lazarus and the Rich man, when they both died the rich man saw Larazus in Abrahams bosom and asked if Lazarus can dip his finger in some cold water so he can just touch the tip of his tongue for he was in anguish. Abraham told him in your life you had your good things, but Lazarus did not so now he is comforted. Then the rich man asked Abraham if he could go to his house and warn his brothers so they don't come to this horrible place. This clearly shows that they were not asleep and still conscious of what was going on. Also how did Christ Preach the gospel to the Dead and the Spirits in prison if they are asleep ? I don't understand, perhaps they mean asleep in Body and soul, But the spirit goes back to God who gave it.

In Ecclesiastes 12 verses 5 to 7 clearly talks about the " Silver Cord " snapping which is the Cord that is attached to our Spirit. And the Dust returns to the earth and the Spirit returns to God who Gave it.

Also in Sirach addresses that we must mourn for a while, but then it is time that we go on with our lives. We ought to be happy that the Dead have reached their heavenly home, for the Dead are now living. Sirach 38 verses 16-23.

In the NT the scripture at Ephesians 4:1 helps us to see what Jesus was talking about when he "preached to the dead."
It reads, "furthermore it is YOU God made alive although YOU were dead in YOUR tresspasses and sins." - meaning that Jesus preached to those "dead" spiritually speaking.

2 Pet 2:4 calls the "prison" for angel that sinned Tartarus. The angels are not immortal but can and did sin against God resulting in being tossed into the dense pit of Tartarus as punishment, waiting for judgement.

John 5:28,29 tells us to "not marvel at this because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement."
Rev 21:4 "he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." This a promise that will soon be realised for all who put faith in our creator to see dead loved ones again and not have to worry about death anymore.

Sorry that's all I've got time to discuss tonight. Time for some z's :)

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Originally Posted by Moparbyfar

In the NT the scripture at Ephesians 4:1 helps us to see what Jesus was talking about when he "preached to the dead."
It reads, "furthermore it is YOU God made alive although YOU were dead in YOUR tresspasses and sins." - meaning that Jesus preached to those "dead" spiritually speaking.

2 Pet 2:4 calls the "prison" for angel that sinned Tartarus. The angels are not immortal but can and did sin against God resulting in being tossed into the dense pit of Tartarus as punishment, waiting for judgement.

John 5:28,29 tells us to "not marvel at this because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgement."
Rev 21:4 "he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away." This a promise that will soon be realised for all who put faith in our creator to see dead loved ones again and not have to worry about death anymore.

Sorry that's all I've got time to discuss tonight. Time for some z's :)

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Ok so if Jesus speaked to us " Spiritually Speaking " That means in the Spirit we are alive.
As it is only our Bodies and Soul that are asleep, But the Spirit goes back to God so since we are Spiritually able to hear the Gospel that means upon Death we are made alive in the Spirit, that is the interpetation that I gather from that content.

Ok I have another question since according to the Holy Bible the Dead are Supposed to be asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, then how is it that a lot of people, especially children are seeing Ghosts ? And some people are even having Conversations with these so called apparitions ? There has been just too many cases I am hearing about seeings Ghosts of the Dearly departed, for it to be a hoax, lie, hallucination or such. Some people may make up a story just to be saying something, but there has to be some amount of truth in some of those cases especially with kids, as they have nothing to gain by making that up. They have seen their Dead Grandfather, or Dead parent or some other relative who has passed on.

Also there are many books out that are Non-Fiction that claim to Actual hauntings of places where things have happened, especially I am hearing that there are a lot of churches that people have seen ghosts and some of them are in manhattan here in NYC.
So some of them may be saying it just for publicity, but others have to be real as all of them can't be a lie. Behind every tale or legend there is a basis in reality to it.

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Originally Posted by In Sorrow

There are various Scriptures in the old testement that clearly states that the dead are asleep until the 2nd coming of Christ, And in the new testment it says something entirely different. In Ecclesiastes 9:5 & 9:6

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The first thing to remember is that Ecclesiastes is not a teaching on life after death, but a teaching of life and our insignificance before All Mighty God.

Ecclesiastes 9:5For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:6
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.[/quote]

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it states clearly that the Dead are just asleep and that they have no more conscious and no more love or hate as their memory has been wiped out.

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That is basically true. When we die, our children remember us for a time. But then, our grave markers get old and no one comes to put flowers on them anymore. Then, one day, we are forgotten.

I had a kind of experience of this when I quit my last job 10 years ago. I had worked very hard to put in a local area network which would permit the flow of work in the office from one desk to another.

When I went back one day to visit the office, 90% of the people were strangers to me and the network was gone. It was replaced by a mainframe. So much for my legacy.

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It even states something similiar in Job 14:12, also in psalm 146:4 .

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Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[/quote]

Sleep is frequently equated with death because although the body rests, person is alive. It is in sleep when we mostly dream, right? And we aren't considered to wake up until our bodies rise up.

So, this verse is referring to the Last Day, when our bodies will rise from the sleep of death to join our spirits.

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Psalm 146 4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

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Psalm 146 is telling you to have faith in God and not in man.

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3Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, because men perish from this life but God does not. 4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

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If you read the verse before, it makes more sense. It is not a teaching on the after life, but a teaching on faith in God.

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Now the New Testement states something different, In Luke 16 Verses 19 to 31. It clearly states how the Dead were very much conscious, even about their own living relatives, it is given the impression that the Spirit goes to Hades when it departs.

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Correct. That is why we believe in Purgatory.

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Even in 1 Peter 3 verses 19 to 20 it says how Jesus went to preached to the Spirits in Prison, which means there is a spirit prison that the Spirit goes to when it departs.

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Also correct.

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And in 1 Peter 4 Verse 6 it clearly states that Jesus even preached the Gospel to the Dead, which means they cannot be sleeping if Jesus is preaching to them.

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It does not teach that their bodies aren't sleeping. It teaches that their souls are very much alive and aware.

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That is why the Bible is very hard to understand and this site alone clearly backs up the old testement.

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Don't go back to that site. But keep studying the Bible.

Here's an excellent free Bible study from a Catholic perspective:
Welcome to the St. Paul Center for Biblical Theology

Here's another:
Agape Bible Study

I hope that helped.

May God bless you,

Sincerely,

De Maria

I believe, and this is only a well thought out opinion, that we have to make a distinction between the objective and the subjective views of "where" the dead in Christ are.

Objectively, when a person dies they leave TIME. They are immediately at judgement day with no TIME in between because they enter eternity and are no longer in the realm of time... that we are born into and leave "later".

But, to us and all who are still in time they are in the grave. We know that Jesus conquered death for us. It has no hold on us. We are alive in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. But in the TIME of the world, the dead can normally no longer interact with the living or even "praise God" from the grave. And we who are still in time can't even envision being eternal. We can't understand how any movement can occur without time because to us TIME is a series of snapshots of where things were, are and will be.

From our perspective they are "asleep" in our time until we, "who are still alive" see the Lord return on judgement day. From our perspective, we will both meet together in the air on the same day to be gathered by the angels with Jesus.

revdrgade: great answer! I've been trying to say that exact thing but couldn't put it into words. Thanks!

In Sorrow,
I agree somewhat with revdrgade regarding those whose bodies have died and the fact of out time and God's time.
I do believe what Jesus said that the bead of body are alive for God is "The God of the living" when speaking of person long dead of body.
We Catholics and some others also believe in Purgatory when our sinful nature is purged so that we can enter heaven purely clean of and sin or nature thereof.
That is also biblicly based.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

There are some people who believe that once a man is physically dead his spirit is annihilated. The bible doesn't teach that. Either we are alive in heaven with Christ or alive in hell apart from Christ. The term soul sleep is also used. That means our soul exists in an unconscious state. Although the scriptures use the word sleep, it always refers to the believer and is Paul's way of describing the gentle passage into God's presence. The Apostle Paul made it clear that absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Maggie 3

Maggie 3,
I believe that the soul lives on after death of the body.
The body is what is asleep till reserection time.
God is the God of the living, not the dead.
Death of the soul is referred to as being in Hell away from God.
Many often say or pray that persons who have die rest in peace.
That is for the body.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred, do you believe that this body we currently inhabit will return to where it was made according to Gen 2:7? Or does your religion teach that this body will live forever?

I trust that those that fall asleep have fallen tired, because they do not hear the voice of Christ. Christ exampled this in all the disciples, that they fell asleep when Christ went be with His Father in prayer. HIS command was clearly spoken to them all to watch (stay awake) yet 3 SPIRITUAL SIGNIFICANCE times, Christ came back to find them asleep. Christ does not want us to grow tired, but instead says, My Sheep hear My Voice and Follow Me.

Mark 14:37 And HE cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? Couldest not thou watch one hour?

Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

We today are to stay awake and not enter into temptation. Do as Christ has shown us by following HIS steps. Even though Christ is with the Father in Heaven, we should hear HIS Voice.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow HIS steps

Why? The answer is written:

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

~Christ leds us, hear HIS Voice

450donn,
I believe in the resurrection of the body, in a new form, that of a glorified body as Jesus has.
It can pass though locked doors and walls and disappear and appear instantly a long distance away as Jesus did.
In addition to living eternally, who knows what else such a body can do?
Peace and kindness.
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

450donn,

It can pass though locked doors and walls and disappear and appear instantly a long distance away as Jesus did.

Fred

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I have real issues with this sort of nonsense. Are you telling me that our resurrected bodies will be ghost like? Where is that bit of nonsense in scriptures, or did you get that one from some man? Or are you trying to read into something that you were told?

450donn,
I did NOT say or infer "ghost like".
I said like Jesus has and had after he rose from the dead.
If you read the bible about that you will see that Jesus did as I described.
The bible indicates that that is the sort of body those resurrected in the Lord will have.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Again you are giving opinions without scriptural backing. Either use scripture to back up your outlandish comments or please stop it!

450donn,
Sorry, but if you don't know the bible well enough to know that I am referring to holy Scripture I'm all done with you and that.
I go by the bible and I do not have the time to look up and type in passages word for word.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

So instead of insults why not try and enlighten me? All I ask is that you use scriptures to back up your ridiculous notions. You don't so all I can do is assume that you have none and that your comments are only ramblings of someone who is blind to the word of God.