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-   -   Link between philosophy/religion and mental illness? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=130234)

  • Sep 16, 2007, 02:57 PM
    sveltskye
    Link between philosophy/religion and mental illness?
    I am diagnosed with bipolar disease and last year I had a major manic episode and ended up in the hospital. The strange thing is that I'm not religious at all, I've barely ever thought about religion and philosophy always frustrated me because I felt like I was going in circles. But in the weeks before I got in the hospital, I started thinking about philosophical and religious things obsessively. Some of them I know were bug nuts crazy, but some were actually kind of thought provoking. I started thinking about existence and all the different religions and started coming up with crazier and crazier theories about the world and the nature of existence and religon and stuff. Even after I recovered I was still feeling the need for religion in my life, which I never had before. This has since gone away completely.
    I've heard many stories of other people who, in the process of going crazy, started thinking about religion or the nature of reality. Also, many people go crazy when they're in religion school. I was amazed when I went to support groups by how the people had similar delusions as me- for example, one girl I met felt like she was on a TV show while I thought I was a character in a book. Like we weren't real. And another one had "proven" in his head that we all didn't exist, which is eerie because I basically thought the same thing. I also remember thinking so much that I felt like I got to the point where everything was a paradox, that existence itself was a paradox. I don't remember what the reasoning behind that was, and now I try not to think about trippy stuff too much in the fear that I might go off the deep end again. Sometimes I feel like those thoughts caused my insanity, or at least my mental imbalance and thinking about those things fed off each other.
    Does anyone have any thoughts on why this might be? I found it way too coincidental to not spark my interest.
  • Sep 16, 2007, 03:05 PM
    firmbeliever
    I think the thoughts on life and why we are here are not delusions,but sane thoughts.

    Maybe it is a sort of start for you to look at what life really means and what you wish to accomplish with it.

    I do think you should not think this as part of your manic episode.

    If you would like to share some of your thoughts on religion, maybe we could help you finding out where those thoughts fit.
  • Sep 17, 2007, 09:21 AM
    Choux
    It is very important to live a balanced life, plenty of exercise and hobbies, of course, along with friends who like to do stuff, read non-fiction and learn... don't live in your head!

    When you are young, you are supposed to live life and experiment and so things. Have success and failures... lots of experience. From experience you will have the basis of information from which to think when you are mature.

    Life is to be **lived** not thought about endlessly.
  • Sep 17, 2007, 12:03 PM
    sveltskye
    Good advice, Choux. Living too much in my head has gotten me in a lot of trouble, but I do have a life. I have friends, a boyfriend, I go to school and experience plenty of things. While I disagree that people should wait until they're old to think about the nature of things, I realise there's a point where thinking about stuff too much interferes with your ability to live.
    But if you're all about living your life and not thinking about it, I wonder what you're doing reading philosophy posts or on this site at all.
    And firm believer, I never said that religious thoughts were a delusion. There's plenty of people who are very religious and think about the world a lot that have no mental health problems. But I was curious about the fact that tons of psychotic people end up thinking that they're God or people studying religion go crazy.
  • Sep 17, 2007, 01:20 PM
    firmbeliever
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sveltskye
    Good advice, Choux. Living too much in my head has gotten me in a lot of trouble, but I do have a life. I have friends, a boyfriend, I go to school and experience plenty of things. While I disagree that people should wait til they're old to think about the nature of things, I realise there's a point where thinking about stuff too much interferes with your ability to live.
    But if you're all about living your life and not thinking about it, I wonder what you're doing reading philosophy posts or on this site at all.
    And firm believer, I never said that religious thoughts were a delusion. There's plenty of people who are very religious and think about the world a lot that have no mental health problems. But I was curious about the fact that tons of psychotic people end up thinking that they're God or people studying religion go crazy.

    I was not implying religious thoughts were delusional, but I thought you said it made you think if it was a part of your delusion.Sorry if I assumed wrong.

    About religion making people crazy,some can't handle too much of a good thing either(sometimes) that they go overboard with it.
    About people thinking they are God or Goddesses sent to earth,I would assume that these would be delusions of grandeur.

    Anything, when we cross the boundaries set will become a bad thing.
  • Jul 9, 2008, 01:12 PM
    riverrunner789
    There have been several documented studies that have shown that specific stimulation of certain brain regions generate a feeling of "connectedness" and "spirituality." I thought you may be interested in the following article:

    Neurotheology: Interpretation of Reality or Creation of Religion | Serendip's Exchange

    It discusses neurotheology and references some very interesting studies.
  • Oct 15, 2008, 07:46 AM
    tampafl28
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sveltskye View Post
    I am diagnosed with bipolar disease and last year I had a major manic episode and ended up in the hospital. The strange thing is that I'm not religious at all, I've barely ever thought about religion and philosophy always frustrated me because I felt like I was going in circles. But in the weeks before I got in the hospital, I started thinking about philosophical and religious things obsessively. Some of them I know were bug nuts crazy, but some were actually kind of thought provoking. I started thinking about existance and all the different religions and started coming up with crazier and crazier theories about the world and the nature of existance and religon and stuff. Even after I recovered I was still feeling the need for religion in my life, which I never had before. This has since gone away completely.
    I've heard many stories of other people who, in the process of going crazy, started thinking about religion or the nature of reality. Also, many people go crazy when they're in religion school. I was amazed when I went to support groups by how the people had similar delusions as me- for example, one girl I met felt like she was on a TV show while I thought I was a character in a book. Like we weren't real. And another one had "proven" in his head that we all didn't exist, which is eerie because I basically thought the exact same thing. I also remember thinking so much that I felt like I got to the point where everything was a paradox, that existance itself was a paradox. I don't remember what the reasoning behind that was, and now I try not to think about trippy stuff too much in the fear that I might go off the deep end again. Sometimes I feel like those thoughts caused my insanity, or at least my mental inbalance and thinking about those things fed off eachother.
    Does anyone have any thoughts on why this might be? I found it way too coincidental to not spark my interest.

    Walking myself in what I read your path was, I am able to speak of my own experience hopefully offering you more to consider. Since my instance I view sharing with you, two years have passed. From this point I’ve come to view the experience as a hole as a period, quite short and brief but with the force of a colliding train, bringing (nearly forcing) the increased awareness of a part of myself more than I was aware of before -my connection to more, the spirit, God, the self, refer to it however the mind accepts it.
    During my 3 day hospital visit (the experience lasted a total of 7) I should state I was diagnosed bipolar II, later dismissed by two observing counselors, and felt the depth of despair in that I was, or for that matter went ‘crazy.’ It took months for that stigma to be over come, for for myself, that label I had to consider fully before I could decide for myself that it was not me. I was 25 when that week happened. Up until that point I had no (NO) consideration of the soul, God or any of it. I really just believed that there was ‘something more’ never really considering or thinking much about it. I’ve read accounts of this being referred to as a ‘body being’ as opposed to a ‘being with a body.’ I also led a life where I was lying to others as well as myself (no more or no less than I suspect everyone else does). From now I view the body as a tool, where I exist outside the requirement of it. These things I know, even as I type and say them can get a little ‘flaky, or holisticish’ so I would encourage you to do a bit of reading. You say now that the thoughts of God, or religion, etc have stopped, though I suspect if they are like mine, they subside to allow you to grow into your perspective, come to your own conclusions. The soul I’ve read will never Force its agenda, you can always choose to go back to your old habits and behaviors.

    At any rate a few books I’ve found instrumental (and have described what I found to be my experience quite well) Conversations With God I-III authored by Neale Donald Walsch, and Home with God. I could ramble for pages but will stop. I hope what I've shared of my path might give you hope, if not more to consider of your own.
  • Jan 7, 2009, 02:57 PM
    bpmystic

    I have been diagnosed with bipolar. I'm actually looking into the connection between the metaphysical/paranormal and mental illness. That is how I found this site and post. I feel there is a connection. While hospitalized I saw that many of the patients were in one way or another focused on religious themes. Not all of them. I have had many experiences while not manic that cannot be explained. Many of my friends and family (who are all mentally healthy) have seen, heard and experienced these things while around me. My father, who throughout my life refused to believe it was true, recently came to believe. He went from strongly believing I and the rest of my family were creating a bunch of nonsense, to being scared. I will not say I have answers. I do know that in this materialistic science oriented world, most people with dismiss all of this. People are very closed minded today. To all who have an illness or know someone who does, my advice is to believe it is possible that you have a sort of gift. Stay balanced. Don't listen to an aethistic science nut that tells you it's all a symptom of your illness and don't listen to a religious fanatic that tells you Jesus can heal you. You are the one that sits in the middle. You have a medical condition that links you into an unexplainable place. Just accept that and explore it. My email is vvvbrienvvv at yahoooo. I'd like to talk with you. Science nuts and Jesus crispies stay away. You all think exactly the same way, you're just on two different sides.
  • Jan 18, 2009, 01:06 PM
    cozyk
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by tampafl28 View Post
    Walking myself in what I read your path was, I am able to speak of my own experience hopefully offering you more to consider. Since my instance I view sharing with you, two years have passed. From this point I’ve come to view the experience as a hole as a period, quite short and brief but with the force of a colliding train, bringing (nearly forcing) the increased awareness of a part of myself more than I was aware of before -my connection to more, the spirit, God, the self, refer to it however the mind accepts it.
    During my 3 day hospital visit (the experience lasted a total of 7) I should state I was diagnosed bipolar II, later dismissed by two observing counselors, and felt the depth of despair in that I was, or for that matter went ‘crazy.’ It took months for that stigma to be over come, for for myself, that label I had to consider fully before I could decide for myself that it was not me. I was 25 when that week happened. Up until that point I had no (NO) consideration of the soul, God or any of it. I really just believed that there was ‘something more’ never really considering or thinking much about it. I’ve read accounts of this being referred to as a ‘body being’ as opposed to a ‘being with a body.’ I also led a life where I was lying to others as well as myself (no more or no less than I suspect everyone else does). From now I view the body as a tool, where I exist outside the requirement of it. These things I know, even as I type and say them can get a little ‘flaky, or holisticish’ so I would encourage you to do a bit of reading. You say now that the thoughts of God, or religion, etc have stopped, though I suspect if they are like mine, they subside to allow you to grow into your perspective, come to your own conclusions. The soul I’ve read will never Force its agenda, you can always choose to go back to your old habits and behaviors.

    At any rate a few books I’ve found instrumental (and have described what I found to be my experience quite well) Conversations With God I-III authored by Neale Donald Walsch, and Home with God. I could ramble for pages but will stop. I hope what ive shared of my path might give you hope, if not more to consider of your own.

    On this and on the christianity board I keep trying to put into words what you have described here. Basically, we are beings having a human experience, not the other way around. We have an essence that is our life and it will never die. The awareness that we are beyond the walking talking form that roams around this planet. The little voice inside that guides you, that is God.
  • Jan 19, 2009, 02:09 PM
    asking

    An interest in religion is associated with schizophrenia

    For example:



    Quote:

    The relationship between schizophrenia and religion and its implications for care.

    Mohr S, Huguelet P.
    Hôpitaux Universitaires de Genève, Département de Psychiatrie, Genève.

    This paper focuses on the relationships between schizophrenia and religion, on the basis of a review of literature and the data of an ongoing study about religiousness and spiritual coping conducted among outpatients with chronic schizophrenia. Religion (including both spirituality and religiousness) is salient in the lives of many people suffering from schizophrenia. However, psychiatric research rarely addresses religious issues.
    The relationship between schizophrenia and religio...[Swiss Med Wkly. 2004] - PubMed Result

    NIH is the "National Institutes of Health," the biomedical research arm of the US government.
  • Aug 8, 2009, 12:57 AM
    queery000
    Remember that just because one thing happens with another does not mean that one thing causes another. I've tried researching such things as the relationship between art/creativity/philosophy/religion with madness too because I found it interesting... and the answer is always pretty much- we don't know the answer! So keep an open mind. Mental illness is a mystery.
  • Aug 8, 2009, 12:57 AM
    queery000
    Remember that just because one thing happens with another does not mean that one thing causes another. I've tried researching such things as the relationship between art/creativity/philosophy/religion with madness too because I found it interesting... and the answer is always pretty much- we don't know the answer! So keep an open mind. Mental illness is a mystery.
  • Aug 8, 2009, 12:57 AM
    queery000
    Remember that just because one thing happens with another does not mean that one thing causes another. I've tried researching such things as the relationship between art/creativity/philosophy/religion with madness too because I found it interesting... and the answer is always pretty much- we don't know the answer! So keep an open mind. Mental illness is a mystery.
  • Aug 8, 2009, 12:57 AM
    queery000
    Remember that just because one thing happens with another does not mean that one thing causes another. I've tried researching such things as the relationship between art/creativity/philosophy/religion with madness too because I found it interesting... and the answer is always pretty much- we don't know the answer! So keep an open mind. Mental illness is a mystery.
  • Aug 8, 2009, 01:08 AM
    queery000

    On a side note, yeah, I too had a about of mental illness, some mania and psychosis, and I too had religious and philosophical thought/delusions during it ;D hahah. But to be honest, after much research, I've decided that there is no visible link between it all. I think circumstance and background dictates a lot too. Or the thoughts could be a natural human reaction to stress, for example, being put in an entirely different situation which you have never experienced before i.e.. Mental illness, you might naturally start to wonder about what's happening to you ;D

    PS. Read the conclusion to this journal article:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18695349?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez. Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.P ubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=4&log$=relatedarticles& logdbfrom=pubmed
  • Jan 13, 2010, 01:59 AM
    seeka
    Hey bpmystic :)

    Am extremely interested in yr findings in regards to a possible connection to mental illness and religion or something in between. Have tried yr email address but to no avail... was really hoping to discuss this topic with you at length as have only just begun looking into said topic myself recently and of all my researching to date, where you appear to stand on the matter is of great interest to me... I really hope we get the chance to enlarge on this... and no, I'm neither an aethiest or religious 'crispie' in case yr wondering :)
  • Jan 13, 2010, 03:13 AM
    Clough
    Just so everyone knows who continues to post on this thread...

    It's now old and archived, so it's not generally visible unless someone happens to visit this forum topic area, or has received a notification that there is activity on it because they've already posted on it.

    If you have a separate question or want what you post to be currently visible to others on a daily basis, please start a new thread. If you do that, you're question or comments will get the best exposure.

    Thanks!
  • Aug 10, 2011, 06:58 AM
    j.marie
    This is a really old thread but I thought I would contribute in case anyone came along. I had a similar experience to what you say you and the people you know had, however I became convinced I'd found the key to evolution. I researched and researched the brain and mental disorders, stopped eating (became wonderfully thin) and lost any pleasure in socialising. When I spent time with people because I knew I should, I was merely doing it out of duty and ready to get back to my research. My research came to a head when I was jumping from one thing to the next, researching in a Uni computer room and my boyfriend made a joke about incest. Suddenly I went, "Maybe we're supposed to be incestuous" as a potential research link. His face was so dark and incensed that it shocked me. I realised I'd stopped thinking calmly and clearly, and most of all, a part of me thought I had unconvered something that was true, and we were supposed to know. My heart started beating so fast and I shut down the computer and we left. As we walked home my head tingled and I my heart still pounded. I thought I was in control of my own brain (paradox?) and now I had realised and proved this, I was going mental. I realised there was NO god, and I felt utterly alone, even though I hadn't rely relied much on the blief in the first place. I tried drinking some wine at home, but it didn't do anything. When he fell asleep I stayed up all night thinking about positive and negative, logic and illogic and how these are the forces that govern us, even belieiving that me and my boyfriend could save the world from all the darkness, and we could bring up a child who make a difference (religeous, eh?)The next day I was really airy fairy, peaceful but timid. I felt connected to everything - completely to nature. But I kept talking of how life subscribes to those forces, logic to illogic, and illogic to logic. HOwever the next night I was so anxious I couldnt' fall asleep, worrying that I would stop breathing or something. My boyfriend and I had to go back to my house to try and ask a friend for anti anxiety drugs - but she didn't have any. I took a nightol and released what I was doing - I hadn't been relaxing. I started watching romantic YouTube videoes to chill and eventually got to sleep. I think what we've all experienced is really just an outlet - religious / evolutioanry, its just something to channel our anxiety in, and it has to be these sorts of things that a poorly understood or unproved or mythical in order for our imaginations really to be hooked on it. FOr our emotions to be captivated. I think it represents deeper problems at large that need to be addressed, within the scheme of understanding.
  • Aug 10, 2011, 04:04 PM
    TUT317
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by j.marie View Post
    This is a really old thread but I thought I would contribute in case anyone came along. I had a similar experience to what you say you and the people you know had, however I became convinced I'd found the key to evolution. I researched and researched the brain and mental disorders, stopped eating (became wonderfully thin) and lost any pleasure in socialising. When I spent time with people because I knew I should, I was merely doing it out of duty and ready to get back to my research. My research came to a head when I was jumping from one thing to the next, researching in a Uni computer room and my boyfriend made a joke about incest. Suddenly I went, "Maybe we're supposed to be incestuous" as a potential research link. His face was so dark and incensed that it shocked me. I realised I'd stopped thinking calmly and clearly, and most of all, a part of me thought I had unconvered something that was true, and we were supposed to know. My heart started beating so fast and I shut down the computer and we left. As we walked home my head tingled and I my heart still pounded. I thought I was in control of my own brain (paradox?) and now I had realised and proved this, I was going mental. I realised there was NO god, and I felt utterly alone, even though I hadn't rely relied much on the blief in the first place. I tried drinking some wine at home, but it didn't do anything. When he fell asleep I stayed up all night thinking about positive and negative, logic and illogic and how these are the forces that govern us, even belieiving that me and my boyfriend could save the world from all the darkness, and we could bring up a child who make a difference (religeous, eh?)The next day I was really airy fairy, peaceful but timid. I felt connected to everything - completely to nature. But I kept talking of how life subscribes to those forces, logic to illogic, and illogic to logic. HOwever the next night I was so anxious I couldnt' fall asleep, worrying that I would stpo breathing or something. My boyfriend and I had to go back to my house to try and ask a friend for anti anxiety drugs - but she didn't have any. I took a nightol and released what I was doing - I hadn't been relaxing. I started watching romantic youtube videoes to chill and eventually got to sleep. I think what we've all experienced is really just an outlet - religeous / evolutioanry, its just something to channel our anxiety in, and it has to be these sorts of things that a poorly understood or unproved or mythical in order for our imaginations really to be hooked on it. FOr our emotions to be captivated. I think it represents deeper problems at large that need to be addressed, within the scheme of understanding.


    Hi j. marie


    Psychologist Carl Jung addresses many of the issues you raise. He wrote many books and articles in the area of psychology and religion. As far as sexual matters are concerned he differs from Freud. Both are of interest in this area.

    Carl Jung - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  • Aug 10, 2011, 07:19 PM
    SimRob234
    I've wondered if there's a link between philosophy and mental illness, partly because I worked for many years in a philosophy department and so many of the people there and in other philosophy departments seemed a bit mad. As someone has already mentioned in this thread, it may not be that philosophy leads to mental illness, since correlation does not mean causation. Maybe people already with underlying mental illness are drawn to philosophy - so the causal connection would be the opposite way. Still, read some of the famous philosophers e.g. Kant and you'll be convince they were nuts.

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