Removed tub have a slab floor how high do I build up for the shower pan?also want to do a glass block wall only framing 2 sides[ floor and wall] is this OK to do? What height should the drain be from the slab?
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Removed tub have a slab floor how high do I build up for the shower pan?also want to do a glass block wall only framing 2 sides[ floor and wall] is this OK to do? What height should the drain be from the slab?
You can save yourself a lot of work by installing a Swanstone 3260 retro pan made for swapping out a tub for a shower.
For this situation, I would recommend to do custom built shower pan. ( just for demonstration, I am enclosing photo of typical 3'x3', rough-in, shower pan ). You will have to move the drain to the center or at least further away from the wall. You may also use the retro-pan, as suggested above, but in this case you will not be able to build on top of the curb because of glass block weight issue.
You build a curb which should be no less than 4 1/2" high ( 3 - 2x4"s flat, nailed on top of each other, all 3 should be treated lumber ) This curb is important bcs it will also act as a base ( foundation ) for your glass block wall. You water proof the curb as well ( hot mop or PVC liner ).
They sell dedicated drain for this installation. It can be Cast Iron drain or PVC drain. The drain has preset or adjustable height. In any case, the final height should be about 2 1/2" high to accommodate concrete floor / tile installation.
Hope that will help... Let us know what you decided to do. Milo
I'm going to hafta go with Bob on this,Quote:
Originally Posted by migasja
This base is designed for just what you require. You won't have to move the drain and as I recall you wanted a walk in shower. Compare the image Milo put up to what Bob wants you to install. Now there's a walk in shower! If there's a weight problem with the glass blocks you can beef up the edges of the base by framing it with 2X4's. Good luck, TomQuote:
You can save yourself a lot of work by installing a Swanstone 3260,(see image) retro pan made for swapping out a tub for a shower.
It really all depends on what you want. For ease, I would definatley go with Bobs advice. However, if you are looking to have a true custom shower and really want the full tile look, then I would go with Milo. Milos pic is just a rough idea of what a custom shower settup entails, it can be any size. It really does all depend on what you are looking to achieve. Please let us know what you want, and between Bob, and Milo, you will be covered.
No hard feeling guys, I just know that some folks like the prefab base, and some folks can't stand them, they would rather have the whole thing done from scratch. It all up to Mig to let you know from here. And if I know anything, you guys will give the best advice available anywhere either way. Good day. Lee.
There is also some middle ground with the Schluter system for making a pan. No building a pan from scratch but fully tiled. Shower Systems - Schluter-Systems
One of the first things to consider that has yet to be discussed is your existing drain. Tubs only require and are often plumbed with 1.5" inner diameter drain lines. Showers require 2" inner diameter drain lines, all the way to and including it's connection to the main plumbing stack. That's something you'll want to check out. Another thing is the offset location of the drain. There are a few ready to tile pan options that work with retrofit tub to shower situations, Tile-redi, Noble's Pro-slope and Kerdi offset pan to name a few. Tile-redi would be the least desirable in this case because of the glass block walls on two sides. The Tileredi pan would come up the sides higher than you would probably want.
If you want a tiled pan, there are two ways I would approach the construction of this one.
First one would be the Kerdi pan. Kerdi is a waterproofing membrane made by Schluter. They have a preformed pan that would fit the old size of your tub and provide the correct slope. The drain is available in either as or pvc. The beauty of the Kerdi drain is the fact that it is adjustable front to back, left to right, up and down and it has a square grate, no cutting tile to fit a circular drain. You get to adjust the drain to the tile, you don't have to adjust the tile to the drain. The shower walls, base, and curbs would all be covered with the kerdi membrane. The membrane gives a 100% water a vapor proof layer right behind the tile. Unlike conventional shower construction where the waterproofing is more than an inch below the tiled floor and behind the cement board walls enabling the enclosure to hold quite a lot of water a take a long time to fully dry out, Kerdi is waterproofing just below the tile. It dries out rapidly eliminating the moisture component needed for mold and mildew to flourish.
So it would go like this
1) hang new regular sheetrock on the walls (kerdi goes over regular sheetrock)
2) thinset Kerdi pan to the slab, install and connect Kerdi drain base
3) Construct your curb from bricks thinsetted to the slab (I know you were told to use pressure treated lumber, but pt lumber is not to ever be part of a shower to be tiled. It can be used for the bottom plate of wall framing, but not for curb construction or any other part of it unless you can find that which is specifically marked as "kiln dried after treatment" If you need to fix the width of the curb, you can thinset 1/2" cement board to it.
4) Thinset kerdi membrane to the walls, base and curb, plug drain, water test
5) Install tile with UNmodified thinset, flat trowel areas not receiving tile but getting glass block with white thinset (you don't want to see the orange color) and grout
6) install drain
7) install glass block
5, 6, and 7 can be done interchangable. Steps 1-4 need to be done in that order.
The other way to approach the shower pan is similar, but would be to relocate the drain to the center. Code requires the pan to be sloped 1/4" per foot from the furthest point from the drain. If you leave the drain where it is, and since the mud bed needs to be level around the perimeter, you would end up with and extremely steep slope on the drain side of the shower. Moving the drain could also mean that the drain is now too far code wise for venting requirements. Also, cutting the concrete, moving the drain, and patching the cement results in cold joints, which is where you have two sections of slab that behave as two separate sections of slabs. With this being the case, you will need to have an unbonded mud bed, whereas if the drain was already centered when the slab was poured, then you would be able to just bond your mud with thinset. But still with a site built mud bed, I would skip the liner method and use any one of the many uniform plumbing code approved liquid waterproofing membranes for ceramic tile. You could pick up any of the clamping ring drains as shown in Milo's pictures and do a two layer mud pan, or you could pick up a kerdi drain for around $75 dollars and do and single layer mud pan, which would be easier and quicker and far less prone to errors. I'll just cover the Kerdi drain/liquid watrproofing membrane version, but let me know if you would like the details for the double layer mud bed/liner menthod and I'll post that as well.
So, here's the second way I'd do it, with the drain relocated to center and with the use of a Kerdi drain.
1) install cement board on the walls and thinset bricks for the curbs. Once again, build out curb with cement board thinsetted to the brick as needed.
2) lay tar paper and diamond lath on the floor of the pan
3) figure the height at the corner of the shower, using 3/4" as the minimum thickness at the drain and the 1/4" per foot slope, and make a level line around the pan. Your mud will all be at that level around the perimeter, the slope of the mud will vary, being no less than 1/4" per foot to the drain, carve out enough of the mud to get the kerdi drain set into the mud and glued to the pipe. Dry fit it first, then spread a thin layer of thinset on the mud where the kerdi drain will rest and use the correct pipe adhesive/primer for the drain.
4) Paint the entire enclosure with a liquid waterproofing membrane, such as Laticrete's Hydroban or Custom's Redgard. Pay close attention to the manufaturer's requriements for tape or fabric re-eforcement on inside and outside corners.
5) set tile with modified thinset, from a bag, mixed with water.
6) install Kerdi drain grate
7) install glass block
Have fun and good luck.
Jack,Are you suggesting replacing the drain line with 2". all the way to the terminal end?Quote:
One of the first things to consider that has yet to be discussed is your existing drain. Tubs only require and are often plumbed with 1.5" inner diameter drain lines. Showers require 2" inner diameter drain lines, all the way to and including it's connection to the main plumbing stack. That's something you'll want to check out.
That's lottsa work for a DYI'er. You don't figure the shower wil drain through a 1 1/2" trap qnd drain. I know showers are installed 2" but in the interest of a simple installation couldn't he increase the trap raiser to 2" and go from there? Just wondering how much "out side the box" you'll go. Tom
I agree with Bob. Actually he helped me do this to my bathroom on this site. I used the retro pan from swanstone and did all the work by myself. They can order the pan for you at home depot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ballengerb1
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I dug down about 18" and cut out the old 1 1/2" drain and replaced with 2". Luckily I had a 2" trap. I still think the 1 1/2" would work since I only took showers in my tub/shower combo. The 2" is code for showers though.
Nice post, PettyG2...
Also: Lowe's carries Kohler Cast Iron shower base that is designed for tub-to-shower switch-over. They come in many different colors and have non-slippery finish. They also come in Left and Right hand drain.
What Bob and I've been saying all along! Tom
Of course Tom, you already suggested that... It just looked to me that the pictured shower pan was plastic one.
Tom, I'm not saying it won't drain, I'm just pointing out what it's supposed to be. Who knows, it might already be 2" all the way to and including the trap with a reducer between the trap and the tub. Tubs certainly drain just fine with 1.5" drain lines until they get a big pile of long hair or a wash cloth on top of the drain. I also guess that with today's water saver shower heads, the flow rate out of the shower head is much less than the draining capacity of the 1.5" drain line.Quote:
Originally Posted by speedball1
I just wanted him to be aware of this in the event he's pulled a permit and some inspector who actually knows what's written in code (do ya think many of them exist?) comes by, had a bad day and want's to do nothing but tick someone off.
To the original poster, It's my opinion, that with glass block shower walls, you will need to look at the other textures within your bathroom before deciding upon a shower base. For example, If you had a got a swanstone countertop for your vanity, you could get a swanstone base. Too many different manufacturers, with almost but not wxactly the same color finish, in my opinion, makes it look like a gargae sale component remodel, like bying the black pants for one suit and the jacket for a different black suit and putting them together...just doesn't go. HD and Lowes are both now stocking tile where you have an entire series starting with a mosaic and sized all the way up to 18" or so, and then of course, any tile store can show you just tons of other tiles as well.
Through any of our side tracked debates, we will take care of your questions.
Enjoy your day :)
I would listen to this guy! If he sez it won't fly, it won't fly. As a plumber in new construction my lob ended with setting the drain and panning the shower. Then the tile guys took over. I'm certainly glad that we have a working tile guy on board. Stick around Jack! You're needed here on the Plumbing Page. TomQuote:
To the original poster, It's my opinion, that with glass block shower walls, you will need to look at the other textures within your bathroom before deciding upon a shower base.
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