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-   -   Wiring a ceiling fan to a single switch that operates a hot outlet (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=653251)

  • Apr 22, 2012, 06:21 AM
    EagleJ
    Wiring a ceiling fan to a single switch that operates a hot outlet
    I am attempting to install some ceiling fans and have run into a wall with the wiring. I am not an electrician, obviously, but am a builder and very handy and have wired for renovations before - but this one has me stumped.
    I have a single switch that operates a hot outlet in the wall, currently running a lamp. The switch only has a single black and a single white wire connecting to the switch terminals, and a ground. That's it.
    I was trying to connect the fan and light and have the fan hot all the time but the light operated by the switch, and purchased/installed 14/3 cable to do so.
    I connected the fan black/black, red/blue, white/white, ground/ground. When this wasn't working, I skipped the red in the cable and just went black/black/blue, white/white, and grounds. I'm not even worrying about the fan light at this point.

    I have tried every conceivable configuration for wiring the switch to the cable connecting to the fan and can get power to the fan but here's the problems:
    -When I turn on the switch, the lamp at the outlet and the fan turn on.
    -If I turn off the switch, both turn off.
    -If I turn on the switch, but unplug the lamp from the wall, the fan turns off. This happens if I put anything in the wall outlet without an on/off switch (actually I haven't found anything other than a lamp that will let the fan run).
    -If I have the lamp and the fan on, and then pull the chain for the fan speed, the lamp dims or turns off.
    -If I turn the lamp off, the fan turns off.
    -If I unscrew the bulbs to have the lamp on but not emitting light at night, the fan turns off.
    Also, the fan is only operating at low speed.

    In the switch, I currently have the black from the wall in the bottom of the switch, the black to the fan in the upper switch, and the whites pigtailed. That was really just the last configuration I tried before stopping for the night.
    I have also tried the whites pigtailed together and then to the bottom terminal, the blacks pigtailed and into the top. I have tried just about every possible configuration and they all had similar or worse results.

    PLEASE help me before this fan drives me insane!
  • Apr 22, 2012, 06:42 AM
    Stratmando
    You have the ceiling and the switch in series. I need to read through again.
  • Apr 22, 2012, 06:49 AM
    Stratmando
    You have a switch loop in the box, which is a hot and switchleg going to the recepticle(no neutral)
    Receptacle already has a neutral. You need to either connect the fan and light wiring to the receptacle, then receptacle will switch with light and fan, or rewire the receptacle so the receptacle is always hot and then you will have hot and neutral in switch box for light and fan operation.
  • Apr 22, 2012, 07:27 AM
    EagleJ
    As I was waiting for some responses I went to look at the outlet, which is what I think will work.
    Let me describe what I think will work based on your response and you tell me if that is right:

    The outlet has 2 hot wires going to the bottom terminal, presumably one incoming and one outgoing. Same with the neutrals. Then in the top terminal (the top outlet was the switch outlet) is a black and a white which I presume run to the switch.
    If I were to disconnect the top terminal hot and neutral from the outlet, and take one hot and one neutral from the bottom terminal and put it to the top, then pigtail the wires going to the switch from those wires, would that work to make the entire outlet hot and power the switch? Then could I wire to the fan as normal?

    Would that work to power the switch but not impact the rest of the outlet circuit?

    Thanks so much for the help...
  • Apr 22, 2012, 07:40 AM
    Stratmando
    Yeah, that makes sense, that switch sure appears to be all that's affected, worse thing that would happen would be another receptacle or light may now be hot all the time, which I doubt.
    Connect like you say at the receptacle, which would give you a neutral as needed. If it is a single gang mudring, you may be able to carefully cut, remove, and install 2 separate switches/controls.
    They do make a Ligh/Fan Control for that fits a single gang.
  • Apr 23, 2012, 04:44 PM
    EagleJ
    Thanks for the help. I finally got it all finished and working fine, and wanted to return to tell what happened and how it worked.

    Like I had thought, the switch was operating off a loop from the top of the outlet. What I had to do was to disconnect the loop from the outlet and make the connection like normal to the outlet - black to gold, white to silver - and then connected the white and black from the switch to the matching terminals of the outlet to supply constant power from the outlet to the switch. Then I connected the fan to the switch.
    The problem when I first tried it was that I noticed that the top outlet (previously switch operated) was no longer receiving power. I nearly gave up and left it like that since I was so tired of messing with it, but then noticed that the rest of the outlets on the circuit (all of the rest of them in the bedroom) were not hot either. That's when I realized about the tabs I had been reading about. I never paid attention, but the tab between the bottom and top outlet had been snapped off. So, in order to save money, I ended up just inserting a jumper to connect both terminals. It all works fine now!

    Hope this helps...

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