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    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    Dec 12, 2005, 11:26 AM
    This stirred up so much anger in another website that I am on,

    What do you think about reincarnation. Do you believe in the possibilities that reincarnation exists and was taught in the earlier christian churches?

    Thank you in advance!

    nymphetamine's Avatar
    nymphetamine Posts: 900, Reputation: 109
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    Dec 12, 2005, 11:54 AM
    Well I can't know for sure if reincarnation exists. I haven't seen it in action and I don't feel the least bit guilty when I step on a roach. But I do believe that no one can tell me what I can and cannot do. If I want to reincarnate then by god I will reincarnate. If I want to be a ghost by god ill be a ghost and haunt the old lady down the road. Who is someone to tell you what you can and cannot do with yourself? Are they you? No, I didn't think they were. The human mind is capable of some amazing things and I believe there are people that would try to hold us back from discovering this. I will not let them hold me back.
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
    Uber Member

    Dec 12, 2005, 12:25 PM

    When I said I believe the possibility of reincarnation that I am opened minded. I also mentioned what earlier christians are rumoured to believe and how some people believe Jesus taught about reincarnation. One response was that I need to get saved. Who is this person to tell me that. There are very judgemental and very closed minded people in this world. Anyway, thank you for your response.

    jduke44's Avatar
    jduke44 Posts: 407, Reputation: 44
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    Dec 12, 2005, 04:02 PM
    I personally don't believe that reincarnation exists. As far as the early church in the bible, they did not teach reincarnation. I cannot say no one taught it in the early church because I don't know that. I don't believe having an open or closed mind has much to do with this answer as this goes along with someone personal belief and faith. If their faith states there is no reincarnation and backs this up then so be it and vise-versa. My faith believes, which comes from the bible, once you die you either go to heaven or hell and therefore leaves no room for reincarnation. I would like to see what you have to say about Jesus' teaching on this matter. Just so you know, if you don't get a response from me after this it is because I have seen many debates in this forum on the topic of religion and the many long winded responses people might give that quite frankly I don't have time to respond to. I don't want you to think I necessarily disagree with what you have to say.
    lilfyre's Avatar
    lilfyre Posts: 508, Reputation: 98
    Senior Member

    Dec 12, 2005, 04:53 PM
    Forgive me for being stupid
    Wow, how do I write this answer with out looking like a total idiot?

    I was raised by my grandparent basically. They believed in not one God but all gods. They believed that your body was a vessel for your sole. If you completed your mission in life, you pasted on, to the next body and then the next continuing in time. If you did not well let say it was not a nice place to go. Their heaven was not what the bible said, their heaven was to go on an on and on. I think on this often, my grand father loved to talk about life and simple things. He had one goal in life other than taking care of his family it was to be nice to every one he met even it they seemed to be the worst person on earth. I have read the bible but do not completely understand it as do some of the fine people here do. I do believe in god, and when thing are at there lowest point I can go to church any church any religion and feel comforted. Do I believe in reincarnation YES, I have no proof to back me up, but there are times, I feel my grand parents. It may sound stupid but they loved to be outdoors in nature. I can sit in the wood or go for a walk and truly feel him. Is he there somewhere? I don’t know, but I think he is.
    31pumpkin's Avatar
    31pumpkin Posts: 379, Reputation: 50

    Feb 15, 2006, 09:10 PM
    Reincarnation is an offense to the Lord. It's like saying He didn't get it right the first time. Are you a Hindu or Budist. There is only one God & there is only one true religion. Through the Son one gets to the Father. I felt my mother's presence too... in a willow tree, but that's because she does live up there & she loved the weeping willow tree. Our loved ones do witness our lives.. they are witnesses... it's in the Bible
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    Feb 15, 2006, 11:05 PM
    We are all entitled to our beliefs. I am Roman Catholic but I do believe there are many mysteries about God that are not revealed to us. No one knows for sure. Only God knows. It is up to us to try to figure it out with little knowledge. There is nothing wrong with exploring the possibilities which are many in this world and the next.
    fredg's Avatar
    fredg Posts: 4,928, Reputation: 674
    Ultra Member

    Feb 16, 2006, 06:17 AM
    Hi, JesusHelper,

    "The Bible contradicts the belief in karma by emphasizing grace. According to the Bible, atonement and forgiveness may be gained only through the death and bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Salvation is based solely upon the work of Jesus Christ, not upon our own merits. The concepts of reincarnation and karma are in clear contrast to Hebrews 9:27, "For it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment." Paul clearly states that the soul does not transmigrate into another living body, but goes to await judgment.

    For the Christian, Paul promised that death is the means to being in the presence of Jesus, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord (heaven). 2 Corinthians 5:8" It is clear that the Bible does not allow for the concept of reincarnation."
    The above quote from:

    I am a Christian, and really, do not believe in reincarnation. But, I do believe in Heaven and Hell, and I believe our loved ones, and pets, who have passed on, are watching over us.
    phillysteakandcheese's Avatar
    phillysteakandcheese Posts: 973, Reputation: 356
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    Feb 16, 2006, 09:01 AM
    My beliefs probably come from watching too many sappy movies…

    I believe in reincarnation, but I don't believe that everyone gets reincarnated when they die. I think you are reincarnated so that you have the opportunity to learn. At some point, you reach a level of understanding and can ascend into Heaven.
    DrJ's Avatar
    DrJ Posts: 1,328, Reputation: 339
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    Feb 20, 2006, 12:51 PM
    Some interesting stuff here...

    My take on reincarnation is this:

    The judgement for a "sinner" is eternal damnation to Hell. The alternative is decending into Heaven. I believe that we are in Hell. This is it... this is the Devil's world. We are eternalled damned to stay here until we lead a good enough life (creating enough positive energy) to transcend this world. Earth/Life is the negative aspect of the positive/balanced Heaven.

    Someone quoted that man is only to die once and be judged. That is 100% correct. However, man only lives on Earth. Your soul is not sexed. Each man lives, dies, and is judged. If that judgement is Hell, they are returned to Earth to live again. Not as a slug, not as a dog, but as a human, with the free will to choose their own life. We return to find the positive, balancing energy we need to become one with Heaven.

    Jesus hiimself said that we are no different that He. We are all part of the same Entity... God. We are not human beings on a spiritual journey.. we are spiritual beings on a human journey. We are here to bring all back to balance... to be one with God.

    In response to one question: No, reincarnation does not mean that God messed up the first time. Man did. Until one can overcome and become enlightened, he will be forever damned to this world... to Hell.
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    Feb 20, 2006, 01:44 PM
    Very good points.
    augustknight's Avatar
    augustknight Posts: 83, Reputation: 31
    Junior Member

    Feb 20, 2006, 02:00 PM
    I think reincarnation is the metaphorical extension of re-creation. For everything, including humans , are made from the elements. Stardust if you prefer. How things are created is a matter of chance. Since we have 'borrowed' our bodies, sooner or later we must return them to their elemental state. From there the forces of the universe will determine their new disposition. It may take billions of years but it will happen. The Earth itself will one day be destroyed and discharge it's energy into space. In essence to re-create something 'other'.
    As for the soul entering another body intact. I see no evidence of that.
    The ratio to living people to all people that have lived is quite small. So if anyone gets reincarnated in the conventional sense, they are literally one in a million. And I would want to believe that there would be a reason for such an honor. And I further believe that that person would be aware of it. Otherwise, what is the point?
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    Feb 20, 2006, 02:03 PM
    Very good points as well. There are lots of sides and opinions to reincarnation.
    DrJ's Avatar
    DrJ Posts: 1,328, Reputation: 339
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    Feb 20, 2006, 05:02 PM
    But you see, when you compare the number of people who HAVE lived to the number of people that ARE living, your numbers would be invalid when arguing reincarnation. How many of the people who are alive today, along with those who have lived before, are the same souls?

    Some wouldn't say that it would be an "honor" to be reincarnated. What if this IS Hell... we tend to think that life is such a gift but we do not know, or do not remember what Heaven is. What if we are here to fulfill one purpose... to becomed enlightened... to become, once again, One with God.

    At one point, maybe we all sacraficed ourselved for the greater good. We chose to come here to be part of this journey.

    Here's an interesting theory:

    In the beginning, the rise of Lucifer (the negative force) brought about an imbalance of God which yielded the creations of the Heavens and the Earth (Hell). It was at this time that Lucifer (the negaitve force) was cast to Earth to rule. (*important side note: a lot of this is put into story form for the understanding of by the human mind*)

    So you have this positively balanced Heaven and a negative unbalanced Earth (Hell). Now its like chunks of positive energy (us... our souls) were broken off and sent to Earth to bring as much positive energy as possible in order to balance out the negative energy here. We lead good lives and create positive energy, we have done our part and we can transcend into Heaven. If not.. if we sin... if we bring negative energy.. if we strengthen Hell rather than Heaven, we are damned back here to do it again.
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
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    Feb 20, 2006, 06:57 PM
    You really have it well thought out.
    DrJ's Avatar
    DrJ Posts: 1,328, Reputation: 339
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    Feb 20, 2006, 07:07 PM
    I was raised Christian. Then, I went through a time in my life that I really got into exploring other religions. Later, I had a friend whose mother claimed to be a medium. I never had her do a reading on my, though many of my friends did. I was more interested all these books she had. I dove into them and learned about all kinds of stuff. Then I started buying more and more books of all different faiths, beliefs, religions, theories, ideas, etc... I did this for a good year. I learned a lot just on my own. I would love to get back into that or get involved in discussion groups. This is the closest thing I have been able to find. Of course, my life doesn't allow my much time to study up on things anymore.

    I just find it fascinating to be able to relate so much out of the Bible to SO many other ideas and beliefs... even a lot of MOVIES! It just makes me feel that we are ALL onto something. The differences come in the specifics, the politics, and a lot of man-made ideas.

    I haven't educated myself much in these areas for years. I would love to just do that for the rest of my life.
    orange's Avatar
    orange Posts: 1,364, Reputation: 197
    Ultra Member

    Feb 20, 2006, 07:18 PM
    This isn't about "traditional" reincarnation, but it's interesting and this thread made me think of it so I thought I'd share.

    In the Sefer Zohar, the major book of Jewish mysticism which was written in the middle ages in medieval aramaic, there is a whole section on The Guf, which can be loosely described as a "hall of souls". The Guf and all the souls in it were created at the beginning of time, at the same time that G-d created Adam and Eve. No new souls are now being created; all souls are as old as the earth. When a new baby is conceived or born, its soul comes from the Guf, where it has been "waiting" for a body. Sometimes a soul goes back to the Guf after a person dies, for reasons not clearly explained. If that soul had been in a Jewish body previously, but then goes into the body of a gentile, some of the very Orthodox Hasidic Jews still believe that this person has a "Jewish soul" and will always be drawn to Jewish people. Either with the desire to help Jews (such as Oscar Schindler in World War II), or with the desire to become a Jew themselves. The Zohar also says that when all the souls in the Guf have been "used" by a body, it will be the end of the world.

    This is not mainstream Judaism, btw; it's considered fringe and only certain radical Hasidic groups (and maybe Madonna... LOL) still believe it. But is very interesting and seems like a kind of reincarnation to me. And if any of this seems familiar to someone, maybe you saw the movie "The Seventh Sign" with Demi Moore, haha. It mentions the Zohar and the Guf, although not very accurately. ;)
    JoeCanada76's Avatar
    JoeCanada76 Posts: 6,669, Reputation: 1707
    Uber Member

    Feb 20, 2006, 09:35 PM
    Actually that sounds like a form of reincarnation. If we are all created spirits awaiting to go to this physical place. So we are in this waiting place? HEAVEN MAYBE. Then we come down to live this live and when we die we go back to the same place we came from. So if we go back to the same place we came from that would mean that there is a possibility of repeating the cycle. Just like everything we see in this life has cycles, then it would be common sense that our soul has different cycles to it as well!
    bizygurl's Avatar
    bizygurl Posts: 522, Reputation: 110
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    Feb 21, 2006, 06:23 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by phillysteakandcheese
    My beliefs probably come from watching too many sappy movies…

    I believe in reincarnation, but I don't believe that everyone gets reincarnated when they die. I think you are reincarnated so that you have the opportunity to learn. At some point, you reach a level of understanding and can ascend into Heaven.
    This is what I have always heard about reincarnation. To me it makes sense.

    I believe in reincarnation much more now then I did when I was younger. It just makes sense to me. God gives you one life time to "get it right and be a good person" and that's it? I don't know know onw knows what happens when we die. We will all find out when we get there. All I know is that I believe that our souls survive beyond our earthly bodies, beyond that is still a mystery. But what you believe is your faith as to what happens to your soul.
    No one can tell anyone that they are wrong or that they need to "get saved" no one deserves to be talked to like that. GEEZ let people believe the way they want to believe and leave it alone. We all aren't going to agree on the same thing, it isn't worth debating about.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
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    Feb 21, 2006, 06:43 AM
    It makes me sad to see a comment like this:

    "bizygurl agrees: good comments, if you think about it life on earth is hellsome, I think this is the hell that god was talking about."

    I think this life on earth is most excellent, I don't really care about what, if anything, comes afterwards. I hope it gets better for you

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