[rachie]

Here's a question and I would like to get a christian (especially catholic) point of veiw on this.
What is your belief about demons? Do they exist and do they mess with us in a spiritua sense? Can one really be possessed?
I have a friend who has a severe seizure disorder, and he is a devout christian. He is mentally sound and I trust him a lot. He claims that when he has a seizure, during the end of it in his hypnotic like state, he sees demons and angels as well. He says one demon in particular has a name he never heard before: "Abatu". He is terrified. He said the angels are almost as terrifying only in a different way. I have been there for some of his seizures and he is getting more scared with each one, scared of what he is seeing and scared of being alone in this. He says he trusts Jesus and asks me to start praying when he feels a seizure coming on, stating that this demon figure he sees hates the word of God and is deterred by it. He has warned me not to pursue this and not to research it, stating that it is very dangerous ground that I don't want to be poking around in. but of course, I am curious.
Has anyone studies this subject, and what do you think of this?

[Megg]

I'm not currently christian, but for the 18 years I was. I believed in demons and spirits. I was taguht in church about them. I was always told that I had the decerning of spirits a gift god gives certain people that allows them to be ''in tune' with the spiritual world. I saw spirits when I was young and I also saw trolls on walls. My grandmother and I ruled out that they were demons following my unchristian parents around. But from my personal experience and teachings in church, satan sends his demons (fallen angels) to harm or taunt christians to make them lose faith or drive them crazy. I truly believe in spirits and demons. Yes you can be possessed. Satan is the dark lord of the earth. This is his playground. He can use his evil to destroy christians and sinners. In the bible it says god gave satan dominion over the earth. This is why bad things happen. Demons are everywhere. On the spirit plane, but they are there all the same. Currently I am not a christian, however I do believe in supernatural. Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean its not there. I've done lots of reports and studies on the phanomina of the supernatural. I love it. Its interesting and very thrilling. If I was your friend, I would pray to w/e god they worship for protection. Also, for non christians, a protection spell or chant would help. White candles with a prayer over them could ward off evil. My father used to tell me, if I feel like something bad is near me, just say ''In the name of Jesus you cannot hurt me, I plee the blood of Jesus over this room and my body and my life.'' A protection prayer over a room-bedroom. Worked for me when I was seeing spirits around the house. They never once came into my room because I had prayed over it. So good luck and I hope your friend finds something that works.

It's a possibility he or she is just ''spiritually sensitive''. They just need to learn to protect and control it.

[rachie]

My friend is a "he" :) but anyway... thanks for the reply... its good to hear there are others with the same experience... I am truly fascinated by this, although I guess maybe I shouldn't be.

[Megg]

Well at least your interested. A lot of people dismiss these things just because its out of the norm, or its past the realm of reason. But just as I said just because its not physically visible, doesn't mean its not there. Just keep an open mind, I'm sure you'll find some very interesting things as you go.

[Fr_Chuck]

One can not really be a christian and not believe in demons, first we have to know and believe in the devil because if we did not there would not have been a reason for Christ to be born and die and rise again.

And as a Christian we have several examples of Christ dealing with demon possessed people. And he made a difference between those that were merely ill and those that were demon possessed.

But with that said, also we understand by that, there is a difference, that not all illness is demons

And for many Christians yes we believe in a spirit world, all around us, where demons and angels can be visible. For those I have know that can see into it, if a person is not knowing what to expect or does not want to see it, I can understand why it would be scary.

[Megg]

In the bible there is a story about a man who had MANY demons inside him. They called themselves a ''Legeon'' -meaning many I thik. Jesus cast out the demons into pigs and the pigs ran and ended up dying in madness. The man was thankful to Jesus and repent. Jesus cast demons out of people a lot in the bible. Its very real.

[rachie]

Has anyone heard of this name, "Abatu"? I have not researched it because my friend begged me not to get involved... but I am curious if this has any historical backgroud?

[Megg]

Selected References to Demons in the New Testament of the Holy Bible

Matthew 8:31:
The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs."

Matthew 9:33-34:
And when the demon was driven out, the man who had been mute spoke. The crowd was amazed and said, "Nothing like this has ever been seen in Israel." But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons."

Matthew 10:8:
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.

Matthew 17:18:
Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed from that moment.

Mark 1:26:
The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.

Mark 1:34:
And Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.

Mark 1:39:
So he traveled throughout Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and driving out demons.

Mark 3:15:
And to have authority to drive out demons.

Mark 5:8:
For Jesus had said to him, "Come out of this man, you evil spirit!"

Mark 5:12:
The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them."

Mark 5:15:
When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Mark 6:13:
They drove out many demons and anointed many sick people with oil and healed them.

Mark 7:26:
The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.

Mark 7:29:
Then he told her, "For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left your daughter.".. . She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

Mark 16:17:
And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;

Luke 4:33:
In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit. He cried out at the top of his voice, Be quiet!" Jesus said sternly. "Come out of him!" Then the demon threw the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.

Luke 4:41:
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.

Luke 8:2:
and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magadalene) from whom seven demons had come out;

Luke 8:29:
For Jesus had commanded the evil spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was chained hand and foot and kept under guard, he had broken his chains and had been driven by the demon into solitary places. . . . Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" . . . "Legion," he replied, because many demons had gone into him.

Luke 8:32:
A large herd of pigs was feeding there on the hillside. The demons begged Jesus to let them go into them, and he gave them permission. . . . When the demons came out of the man, they went into the pigs, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned.

Luke 8:35:
and the people went out to see what had happened. When they came to Jesus, they found the man from whom the demons had gone out, sitting at Jesus' feet, dressed and in his right mind; and they were afraid.

Luke 9:1:
When Jesus had called the Twelve together, he gave them power and authority to drive out all demons and to cure diseases,

Luke 9:42:
Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him back to his father.

Luke 10:17:
The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

Luke 11:14:
Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left, the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed.

John 10:21:
But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

Acts 19:15:
One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" . . . Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.

1 Cor. 10:20:
No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. . . . You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.

1 Tim. 4:1:
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

James 2:19:
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Rev. 9:20:
The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshipping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood -- idols that cannot see or hear or walk.

Rev. 16:14:
They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

Rev. 18:2:
With a mighty voice he shouted: "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great! She has become a home for demons and a haunt for every evil spirit, a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.



Here at the bottom of this site are some url's to some good info on demons and such
http://www.diskbooks.org/bible.html

[Megg]

Abatu... lol I looked it up on Google all I got was a metal band... just lloked up a different site...

An earth bound form of destructive/negative energy in the Order of the Nine Angles. Associated with rites of sacrifice.
Demonology: Demon Names List: Abatu

I'm having them send me more info, which ill give to you when I get the email

[Fr_Chuck]

First and foremost, demons lie, it is most likely one will not tell you their real name, unless commanded to do so by the name of Jesus, Knowing their name is part of the power to make it easier to get rid of them.

Next many demons will tell you they are you dead uncle, or here by some mistake, stuck between the worlds, or even tell you they are angels of God. So the number one rule when dealing with demons is really not to talk to them, and if and when you do, do so in the power and authority of Christ. I seldom talk about the few exorisms I have been at, since to many christians it will rate you a nut case sadly, while they believe in it, they don't practice it. But the things I have seen and heard can only be handled when you are strong in Christ, full of his spirit. A weak Christain would never hold up to the happenings.

[rachie]

Yes, that is the main one

[Fr_Chuck]

Abatu - An earth bound form of destructive/negative energy in the Order of the Nine Angles. Associated with rites of sacrifice.

It is listed in the list of demons, it is considered one of the familiar demons

[rachie]

Fascinating Father... and rayne thank you for the scripture.
So you have really been to an exorsism? I can't imagine.
When you say demons lie and say they are a dead uncle, etc.. is it your belief that all ghost "sightings" are something of this nature? So you believe in ghosts or are ghost really just demons posing as a dead loved one? I only ask because I am curious as to a catholics view.

[Megg]

I believe that yes they CAN act like a dead lover or mother or brother. Why? Because they are satans lap doggs... lol. They want to lie, steal your joy and love. They want to break you down to the lowest point. Is your friend a new christian? That may be it. Satan doesn't want you to go to heaven he will do anything in his power on earth to destroy you. So he may have sent a demon to destroy your friends christianity.

[rachie]

Rayne I guess that makes sense doesn't it

[Megg]

As a catholic I don't believe in possession by demons. Ithink thta your friend may need to seek some professional help.

Does that also mean you don't believe in spirits or demons attacking people? If so, I'm sorry but the bible is clear that demons are real and do harm. I've posted places the bible talks about demons on pg 2 I think.

[rachie]

Father... one more thing... why are catholic preists the only ones who do exorsisms? If protestants think catholisism is wrong, then why is it they turn to preists to take care of these problems? I am not trying to be argumentative or start something, I am really asking. Are catholics the only ones who acknowledge demons/ect?/

[Fr_Chuck]

I won't say 100 percent I don't believe in ghosts, I have as rayne mentioned the gift of decernment, and I can fell evil when I am near it, or feel the spirit over a room or area of town, Until I learned more to control and turn it off and on better, it used to even make me physcially ill when I was in and around too much evil at a time.

But when in Atlanta, I lived in a haunted house, we had a shadow that passed by the front window almost every day, the smell of a pipe being lit in the old dinning room every few days, We could not use our motion detectors for our security system, something set them off every night.
And we actually saw objects fly ( not fall) but fly 1/2 way across the room, they almost always came off my desk , which was in the old dinning room, and once in a while off the fire place mantel.
But there was never any feeling of evil in the house. And these things matched very well my wife's aunt and uncle (* who my wife and I actually looked a lot alike)
Ghosts are not really a Christian or catholic view, but are actually mentioned in the office, when Christ was walking across the water toward the followers in the boat, they believed him to be a "spririt" or ghost, so it appears the followers of Christ may have believed in ghosts.

[Megg]

rayne i guess that makes sense doesnt it

Its possible too, that he has a gift that god allowed him to have. God gives people many gifts. It's possible because he may have a calling on his life that satan wants to stop that. God calls people to do things sometimes. Your friend may be very special and chosen by god to do something great or it may just be he is in tune with the spiritual world. Either way satan wants to rob him of his calling and gifts and christianity.

[rachie]

Its possible too, that he has a gift that god allowed him to have. God gives ppl many gifts. It's possible because he may have a calling on his life that satan wants to stop that. God calls ppl to do things sometimes. Your friend may be very special and choosen by god to do something great or it may just be he is in tune with the spiritual world. Either way satan wants to rob him of his calling and gifts and christianity.

That is my feeling on the subject. This fried is very meek, mild, a lot of health problems, but a joy to be around and touches many people. It would not at all surprise me.