[tonyrey]

. .

[shygrneyzs]

Are you talking about purposeful activities in relation to Occupational Therapy?

[tonyrey]

I am asking how all purposeful activity originated! How could it emerge from purposeless activity?

[shygrneyzs]

I would think purposeful activity occurred first in human development. Early humans did not have leisure time to develop purposeless activities. They were too busy surviving. What was purposeful pertained to the daily business of sustaining life.

There is also purposeful leisure activities versus purposeless activities. You see that in something simple like going out and playing softball game with friends versus sitting at home playing a softball game on a game console. You get exercise and camaraderie from being with friends and what do you get sitting on the couch?

[tonyrey]

Don't you think purposeful activity occurred before human beings existed? Unlike inorganic compounds even a simple cell acts purposefully (although it is unaware of its goals).

[excon]

Hello tonrey:

I think it's ALL purposeful. I just don't understand the purpose

excon

[tonyrey]

Hi excon

Do you mean everything (including inanimate objects) is purposeful? If not the problem remains as to how purposeless particles became goal-seeking organisms.

[excon]

Hello again, tonyrey:

In the Universe, there is a powerful natural impulse to assemble and create order. You can see this from the transfixing symmetry of snowflakes, to the comely rings of Saturn, and to the spiral arms of our galaxies. Crystals, for example, although not alive, can do a number of lifelike things - replicate, respond to environmental stimuli, and take on a patterned complexity.

So, when I look around, I see order – not chaos. To me, order is purposeful. I just don't know the purpose - YET. Life has nothing to do with it.

excon

[tonyrey]

. .

Hi excon

I agree with you that order and purpose are basic facts of existence but I don't think crystals act purposefully. They function mechanically but living organisms are flexible and overcome obstacles in pursuing their goals. So the question remains as to how they acquired this ability.

[excon]

Hello again tonyrey:

In terms of "purpose", I question whether living organisms operate any differently than non organic material does. You think crystals don't act purposefully. I disagree. Additionally, you assume living organisms have goals rather than purposes. I disagree again.

Furthermore, if the purpose you're talking about demands life to effect it, then it isn't the same purpose that I'm talking about. The purpose I'm talking about doesn't require life or God.

excon

[tonyrey]

Hi excon

Whether there is a difference between crystals and living organisms doesn't really affect the basic issue. I think you would agree that human beings act purposefully in ways that material objects do not. Unlike them we know what we are doing, are capable of choosing what to do and are usually responsible for what we do. So either we are deceiving ourselves or we have to explain how we have acquired our remarkable ability to plan and control future events with our decisions.

[excon]

So either we are deceiving ourselves or we have to explain how we have acquired our remarkable ability to plan and control future events with our decisions.

Hello again, tony:

I knew we'd get to it eventually.

You say man "knows" what he's doing, as if to say he's in charge. I say he's a sentient being who is "aware" of what he's doing. You say he chooses. I say a bug chooses too, even though he isn't aware of it. You say because a man chooses, he's responsible for what he does. I don't disagree. He's responsible for what HE does.

I suggest, however, that what HE does, doesn't effect his purpose, because his purpose is bigger than him. He's not in charge of altering his purpose. Indeed. If you think a man's purpose is the same as the universe's purpose, then I think you're deceiving yourself.

excon

[tonyrey]

Hi excon

Even if living organisms do not operate differently from inorganic structures I think you will agree that we are unique in being able to plan and control future events. The question remains as to how we have acquired this ability.

[tonyrey]

Hi excon,

Sorry for the confusion. I thought my previous response at 4.34 hadn't been printed.

We seem to be at cross-purposes! You seem to be thinking of some overriding purpose while I am concerned only with specific day-to-day purposes. There is no evidence that the universe as a whole has a purpose. How could it unless it has a mind?

I have never thought a man's purpose is the same as the universe's purpose because I don't believe the universe has any purpose - apart from providing a basis for life and evolution. A man, on the other hand, can form his own purposes and control his destiny, e.g. by committing or not committing suicide. (Something the universe cannot do!)

[Irulan]

Another obscure question.

The purpose of anything depends on who does what and why.

[Wondergirl]

Maslow proposed a hierarchy of needs, with four lower levels grouped together as deficiency needs (physiological), and with the top level dubbed growth needs (psychological).

Can we say that every person somehow does purposeful activity in an attempt to meet at least the very basic deficiency needs (eating, drinking, sleeping, sex, safety = survival) Are there people who may never purposefully attempt to meet the psychological ones (personal growth, self actualization)?

[Dark_crow]

Evolution and Religion are both theories of existence, so it follows that which theory you believe to be true will determine your belief. But in either case, purposeful activity began with existence.

Another one of those true, but useless truths.

P. S. But the main question is: Does evolution really explain the origin of existence?

[firmbeliever]

Evolution and Religion are both theories of existence, so it follows that which theory you believe to be true will determine your belief. But in either case, purposeful activity began with existence.

Another one of those true, but useless truths.

P. S. But the main question is: Does evolution really explain the origin of existence?

Why does it have to be one ;and not both religion and evolution(upto a point)?
Does evolution explain the origin of existence?
I would like to know too... :)

[Wondergirl]

The main question is, "How did purposeful activity originate?"

Let's go there instead of fruitlessly argue about religion and evolution. Or please start another thread.

[Dark_crow]

Why does it have to be one ;and not both religion and evolution(upto a point)?
Does evolution explain the origin of existence?
I would like to know too...:)

Evolution was not intended too answer the question of existence, not does it. What evolution does is mark the change in mutation from an existing organism into different species i.e. natural selection.