[cal823]

Why does the governernment have the right to be in charge? To even exist?
I didn't agree to be Australian, I didn't vote to say "lets form a government" so why should I have to follow their rules, even acknwoledge their existence?
Who in the first place, in history, actually said "Thats it, im king, you all have to obey me"? Or whatever.
Does the government have the right to impose laws on us? I know we vote for a leader, but we are required by those same imposed laws to vote.
I want to hear your opinions on this.

[NeedKarma]

What other options do you propose for education, roads, city infrastructure upkeep, etc.

[excon]

Does the government have the right to impose laws on us?

Hello cal:

Does a guy with a big stick have the right to tell you what to do?? Nope, but you better do it (until you get a bigger stick and then YOU can tell him what to do).

excon

[Fr_Chuck]

They do by mere force and power, if you don't do what they say depending on the government, they merely lock you away or kill you.
All governments rule out of fear and a form of military power, They divide their military into "police" and military for war, but it is still a armed governmnetal power they use over us.

Just as in the times of the middle ages, they sent armed troops to take food and material for the governments share, you have tax departments that take their share.k

A persons belief that they are not over them mean little, since it is though the physcial control that they do.

Australia is very interesting, you actuallly have two or three people who have declared thierself to be an independent nation under some way outdated law. I wish I had the link to them, but it is done basically as a tax scheme I heard to not pay taxes ( and does not work)

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

Well in Australia's case, in 1901, six different states decided to form a commonwealth as a colony of England (Cos we were nails back then, and everyone was scared of us because no-one had maps to look at and see how tiny an island we were!)

If we didn't have a government it would be anarchy! Granted, some of their ideas are rubbish, but they do do SOME good!

[NeedKarma]

All governments rule out of fear

To be fair not every country is like the U.S.

[cal823]

australia is very interesting, you actuallly have two or three people who have declared thierself to be an independent nation under some way outdated law. I wish I had the link to them, but it is done basicly as a tax scheme I heard to not pay taxes ( and does not work)

I know what u mean, that guy in W.A who succeeded from asutralia with his land, think its called the hunt river country or something, they have closed that loophole since then :(

[Fr_Chuck]

i know what u mean, that guy in W.A who succeeded from asutralia with his land, think its called the hunt river country or something, they have closed that loophole since then :(

Yes I spoke to one of them a few years ago, wanted to appopint me as something to the US ( for a fee of course)

[ScottGem]

Man has always been a social animal, living in groups rather than individually. From the dawn of history, such groups have always had a leader to decide what is best for the group. Even lower order pack animals have leaders. In earlier history, leadership was usually decided by whoever could hold the leadership by force.

As man became more "civilized" and the groups became larger a need for an infrastructure came into being. Someone to maintain common facilities like roads or other public buildings, someone to provide for the defense of the group, someone to mediate disputes. And so the concept of a government was formed. What was the first government? I would have to do some extensive research I don't have time for to determine that. The Grecian city-states are early examples.

Just being born into a society that has a government makes you a citizen of that govt. You can renounce your citizenship and leave the boundaries controlled by that govt. But you make use of the services provided by that govt everyday. That obligates you to some extent.

[Starman]

The alternative to government is anarchy.

[Capuchin]

Anarchy is a form of government...

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

anarchy is a form of government...

Ha ha, how did you come to that conclusion Capuchin? The word literally means 'without government'!

Unless you're saying that being without a 'government' you are left to govern yourself, and thus you are your own government? :D

[Capuchin]

It means that there is no subset of the population that represents the population as a state. Instead the whole populace represents the country as a state. Yes, the whole populace is the government.

[cal823]

I don't care if the alternative is anarchy, because it still does not give people the right to be in power.
I was born in australia, and I am forced to use the nations goods an services, by threat of starvation, dehydration and death.
I am forced to learn, by threat of imprisonment, punishment or fines.
I will be forced to work, by threat of poverty, starvation, and death
I will be forced to pay taxes, by threat of imprisonment
We are not obligated, we are threatened and lied to.

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

So what would be your alternative then cal?

[cal823]

There isn't an alternative, just like there is no alternative to slavery for a man who is in chains.
Doesn't mean I have to like it.
One alternative is suicide, and I've been pretty close to it lately.

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

Get yourself a bit of land and live a self-sufficient lifestyle!

I think it's just the civilised life we lead that we rely on other people to provide us with the necessities of our lifestyle! I can't see how it could work any other way!

[cal823]

Not being able to see another way doesn't make the current way right.

[iAMfromHuntersBar]

But you're saying all these things and you don't have a solution to the problem!

If you don't like the society you live in, where we all depend on these things, move to another country, or set up your own society without them!

I don't agree with some of the decisions my government makes, but they have been elected by the majority for the greater good of the country!

I don't agree that you're 'Forced' to do anything you say you are!

If you don't want to learn, you don't have to.
If you don't want to work, you don't have to (our government will even provide you with money if you won't / can't) you may starve, but that's your choice.
You're not forced to pay taxes, don't buy taxed goods, grow your own stuff and don't use any council-reliant services.
Of course you have to obey laws, they're there for the greater good, without laws civilisation would come apart at the seams.
You're not forced to support corporations, you choose to! You're sat on a computer, using the internet right now, no-one has forced you to do that! You're choosing to support them!
And finally, you're not forced to be part of society by threat of isolation, you would be isolated by choosing not to be a part of society!

[NeedKarma]

I think your problem is less with the government and more about your mental health. You should seek some help.