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ScarletLetter · May 17, 2007, 03:43 PM

Technically he's not married, but he has been with his girlfriend for 12 years (on and off... mostly on). He's in his early thirties now. We've known each other for a little while and have gotten to be very close over the past 8 months... to the point now where I have told him that it has become an emotional affair. He does not disagree and says that he has fallen in love with me. He doesn't use the old "my relationship at home is going bad" excuse. He just says that there is nothing left between them, except their kids and when he pictures the rest of their lives together he says it just seems "long". It happened long before I came into the picture (over 2-3 years ago) and he tried over the years to change things. They didn't, so he resolved to just live like that because even though there was no love... there was financial stability and complacency. They don't fight. They just... co-exist with kids. Now he claims to be in love with me and he is confused (and I know you are judging... but try not to. He is a "good" guy. This is the only woman he has ever been with. Ever). I try not to say too much, because yes. I have fallen for him to. At first I told him that he just had a stupid crush and it would go away. Then put some distance between us. Didn't really work - we're still in this emotional affair. He would leave his girlfriend but is afraid for his kids. He wants to be assured that I would accept and love his kids and would stand by him no matter what. I don't know what to tell him because my answer to his questions are "YES" on both counts and if I say that he might do it. I am not sure, in this case, what is best for the kids. Divorce is hard on kids. Very hard. But I know from experience that living in a home where parents stay together for the kids can also be bad. My sister developed an eating disorder and I pulled out my hair and eyelashes. This went on until they did divorce! Kids pick up on their parents misery.

Anyway - I would just curious for some input from other people. I have told him that perhaps he should see a counselor to help him. I see 2 sides of the coin, and am biased. He has some important things to work through. He agrees. But still insists that it is love he feels for me.

lricks · May 17, 2007, 06:41 PM

First of all, are you prepared to "be" ? You already are but it sounds like you really don't want to be. I realize you're in love with this man but can you live with breaking up his marriage? And do you think that you will ever be able to trust him? If he can do this to her who is to say he won't do it to you. I'm not judging you cause I've been where you are and I've also been where she is. Believe me when I say it made me not ever want to hurt any one else after I felt that pain. I think if he really is being honest with you and he loves you then he needs to leave her but you also need to stay away from each other for at least six months and see if you still feel the same. He may just not know what's out there and needs to experience life. If he's never been with anyone but her it's probably easy for him to think he's in love with you. Give him a chance to test the waters. See if it's real. But don't be the cause of his failed relationship. Remember, there are children involved.

Fr_Chuck · May 17, 2007, 06:55 PM

This is the most common lie the man tells the other women, I love you, don't love her but I got to stay for the kids, that is the number one story men tell.

So they get all the holidays, all the best times, and he gives you the time he can sneak away for some sex. Believe what you want, you know its not true, and in 10 years when the kids are older, see what lie he makes them, his retirement money, may his wife's health is bad then, and he could not do it to her.

gypsy456 · May 17, 2007, 07:27 PM

Of course he will tell you that...

Please come one...
Don't you think you deserve better than "being the other woman"

It does not matter what the man says... ( married or living with another woman or boyfriend of another woman... ) it all boils down to the same thing.

Don't think this is a different situation.

It's just the same old story...

You can fool anybody else... just don't fool yourself.

ScarletLetter · May 17, 2007, 09:08 PM

Alas - in this situation I think that Iricks has the most sound opinion. In the case of this man, I think he has just spent half of his life with the same woman. And he's only 30. That means almost 60 more years with the same person. I have noticed a lot of men and women who have been together for a long time reach 30ish and then split. There is even a name for it. "Starter Marriage" (for those that actually get married). Iricks - I've been there too. My ex husband married me even though he was having an affair with his ex-wife. I asked him why he married me in the first place and he said... because he didn't want to hurt my feelings. Pretty childish and immature. Later on I met a great man and we were together for 5 years. We really didn't "fit" but we enjoyed enjoyed eachothers company. By the end we were strangers. Sort of comfortable with our routine, but no real interest in the other. I realized one day that I was staying mostly because of the fear of change. I may not have been in love with him, but I didn't want to hurt him. We also owned a condo together. I liked living there with a few good friends next door. We shared the bills and were very comfortable financially. Plus... I just had someone. It was a dull, boring relationship where we didn't do much together and stopped enjoying our time together. But at least it was SOMEONE. I lived like that for a year before I realized that I was just like my ex-husband. Not being "true" to my boyfriend but not leaving because it was complicated. THAT kind of relationship is just like being cheated on. How would you like to know that the person you love only stays with you because it's too complicated to leave? "I don't love you dear, but the house and proximity to work just can't be beat." No way! So Iricks - it is fair to say that I don't want him to leave for me because it's just not fair. But staying with someone you don't love because it's just "easy" isn't that fair either. Kids make that choice different... and alas not one person here is qualified to make a judgement on how they would react. Divorce isn't good, but neither is a loveless home.

Now - I know what Fr_Chuck and Gypsy are trying to say... and usually I would agree. I have met those types... and sometimes they are hard to sniff out but I eventually catch on to their crap. They are easy to deal with because they are narcissistic. In this case though... this guy is in a confusing stage of his life. He goes home and feels like he is cheating on me. He does not want me to be his mistress. He wants to know what to do and I don't feel I have the right to tell him. That is why I told him to go to counseling. Then he can figure out for himself what is best for him and the kids. Maybe he will discover that he still loves his girlfriend, maybe he won't. I want him to be happy with whatever decision he makes so it has to come from him. He also wants me to be happy and does not want me to wait for him. I don't plan on it either, although I do not actively date (I play several sports 5 days a week and have little time for much else). When asked out for dinner though, I say yes.

1badchoice · May 17, 2007, 09:11 PM

Maybe you really think you love this man. And I understand that you cannot always help who you love... But at some point you have to use logic, common sense, other people's past mistakes, etc. How many happy "relationships" do you know of where one person was married to someone else when they first got together? Is this really who YOU are? Think of handling this like you would a heartbreak. Cut the ties and mourn the loss... but MOVE ON! Not only will you not ever get what you want from this person, you will no longer like who YOU are... and ultimately, living with yourself is the one thing you have to think of... This you know or you never would have posted. You would have done what you thought was best and kept moving forward in life. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE... LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS! You deserve the whole package as well as being happy in your own skin. Good luck. Cathy

fix-what-you-broke · May 18, 2007, 04:32 AM

Tell him if he is so confused to back off until he has his head clear.
This man is in a relationship, with children involved,you said it was hard on kids to go through a divorce, so don't be the cause of it.
Let him make his own mind up, give him time, if he wants to be with you he will have to be a man and explain all this to his girlfriend.
Have you met his girlfriend? You know for a fact that the relationship is stale? Or is that his words?
He has a girlfriend weather he is happy with her or not, and if he is that unhappy with her he knows what to do.

NeedKarma · May 18, 2007, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by ScarletLetter

I have noticed a lot of men and women who have been together for a long time reach 30ish and then split. There is even a name for it. "Starter Marriage" (for those that actually get married).

Never heard of that before in my life. I believe you are looking for those broken marriages to make you feel better. I've been married for 12 years and no end in sight.

ScarletLetter · May 18, 2007, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Never heard of that before in my life. I believe you are looking for those broken marriages to make you feel better. I've been married for 12 years and no end in sight.

Starter marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have been paying attention this phenomenon for at leat 10 years (post grad in Psych). There are books on the subject if you are interested in knowing more. So no, I am not looking at broken marriages to make myself feel better. It is knowledge that I have acquired over the course of my studies and life that I see in this particular situation. Of course, it is not a hard and fast rule. Not everyone who gets married at a young age will be divorced by their mid-thirties however it does happen often enough that people have taken notice and studied the reasons. I am not saying that it is a good thing... I am just saying that it exists.

NeedKarma · May 18, 2007, 04:58 AM

Wow, you learn something new everyday. I must be hanging out with a different crowd.

ScarletLetter · May 18, 2007, 05:06 AM

Originally Posted by fix-what-you-broke

tell him if he is so confused to back off until he has his head clear.
this man is in a relationship, with children involved,you said it was hard on kids to go through a divorce, so dont be the cause of it.
let him make his own mind up, give him time, if he wants to be with you he will have to be a man and explain all this to his girlfriend.
have you met his girlfriend? you know for a fact that the relationship is stale? or is that his words?.
he has a girlfriend weather he is happy with her or not, and if he is that unhappy with her he knows what to do.

To be honest, I can only go by what he tells me. I am a very cynical person but unfortuantely in this case I do believe he is unhappy at home (I do have a hard time believing he loves me as he says he does though... which is why I tell him to get into therapy).

vlee · May 18, 2007, 07:41 AM

Here is the deal, tell him he can't lay this at your feet and you can't give him any answers while he is living with another woman. Tell him to take some time and decide what he wants to do. Then STAY AWAY. No calls, no meetings, no emails, no texting. He will either leave her and come after you, or you'll see that he has no intention of going anywhere at all and will know to move on. But you certainly have no place answering his "will yo be there for me my kids" questions. It sounds like he wants to base his decision on whether you two can pick up right where he and the other woman would leave off. That's absurd. If he wants to leave her he should be able to do it with or without you.

ScarletLetter · May 18, 2007, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Wow, you learn something new everyday. I must be hanging out with a different crowd.

I have hung out with many different crowds, from many different cultures and who have had many different life experiences. It has taught me that no one group of people is any better than another. There are some very wonderful people out there who have been divorced. There are some complete and utter jerks that have stayed together for life. And vice vera. It is a mistake to base judgement on an entire group of people based on one small aspect of their lives, in which circumstances vary widely.

ScarletLetter · May 18, 2007, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by vlee

Here is the deal, tell him he can't lay this at your feet and you can't give him any answers while he is living with another woman. Tell him to take some time and decide what he wants to do. Then STAY AWAY. No calls, no meetings, no emails, no texting. He will either leave her and come after you, or you'll see that he has no intention of going anywhere at all and will know to move on. But you certainly have no place answering his "will yo be there for me my kids" questions. It sounds like he wants to base his decision on whether or not you two can pick up right where he and the other woman would leave off. That's absurd. If he wants to leave her he should be able to do it with or without you.

Yup - I agree. I am not sure if it shows, but I am not looking for answers for me. I am quite sure of what I want from life. I have not discussed any of my feelings with him. He asked a few times and I said that how I feel is not relevant. He has to work things out for himself and I suggested he go to therapy. I can look after myself. I am here more to get things off my chest. I already think I am handling things OK... based on the fact that things are "grey" when you are in a situation. By this I mean... when you imagine yourself in a certain situation you picture an exact perfectly black or white response. This is rarely the case when you are actually in that situation. Grey... mostly what you think is right but maybe not exactly as you originally thought.

vlee · May 18, 2007, 04:57 PM

It's good that you want him to sort himself out (by suggesting therapy), but it is lousy to be in the middle of someone's relationship problems. He really has to choose what he wants for himself without dragging you or the girlfriend along for the ride. I know it isn't easy, but you just have to tell him that you can not be the reason he leaves his g/f, he has to leave on his own and only then can you discuss a possible future. It's not fair to you to have to answer such enormous questions when I bet you haven't even met his kids. Nor is it fair to the g/f that her b/f is seeing someone else and basing his future with her on his future with you. And don't even get me started on what this will do to the kids... if he wants to leave, he needs to do it all by himself and bear the brunt of the anger and disappointment his g/f and children will inevitably feel. If I were you, I wouldn't want any part in that. If he leaves her with you by his side his kids will likely never even like you, especially if their mother has anything to say about it. But if he leaves her first and THEN comes to you, no one can blame you for his exit, and you may be spared some of the hostility.

talaniman · May 18, 2007, 07:05 PM

I think you miss a very key component to the dynamics between man and woman that is that people are very capable of working out their differences. Assuming as you do, he is telling the truth, then you must recognise you are the distraction that keeps him from working on his alleged failed marriage. On the other hand, if he is feeding you a line to keep you on a string, as 99% of married men do, then you are lying to yourself and doing what most mistresses do, keep giving him what he wants and he goes home to his real family and life. Either way that makes you his fool, or his foolish chick on the side. For all your education I think you are falling for the oldest game in the book, and really should seek a much healthier relationship, as this is not.

gypsy456 · May 18, 2007, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by ScarletLetter

Yup - I agree. I am not sure if it shows, but I am not looking for answers for me. I am quite sure of what I want from life. I have not discussed any of my feelings with him. He asked a few times and I said that how I feel is not relevant. He has to work things out for himself and I suggested he go to therapy. I can look after myself. I am here more to get things off my chest. I already think I am handling things ok...based on the fact that things are "grey" when you are in a situation. By this I mean...when you imagine yourself in a certain situation you picture an exact perfectly black or white response. This is rarely the case when you are actually in that situation. Grey...mostly what you think is right but maybe not exactly as you originally thought.

Sorry to sound so blunt... you are fooling yourself.

steviebeezie · May 18, 2007, 07:40 PM

There's nothing good about living a lie. If he's really unhappy with his relationship, that's something he needs to deal with one way or another before he starts something new. It's not fair to you, or to his family that he's involved with you.

Truthfully, if he's like most men who say these things to the "other women" in their lives, he'll keep stringing you along as long as he can--why change things when they're working out so well for him now?

If you're the person you sound like you are, you can't allow yourself to be the reason his marriage ends. His children will resent you, and you'll never really trust him... you'll always wonder... he's cheated once before, is he doing it now? As hard as it must be, you're only causing yourself trouble staying with this man. Good luck to you.