[Credendovidis]

The bible says that the universe was created only 6000 years ago.

Incorrect : the Bible does not say anything about that.

The religious types will disagree with this because it is absolute proof of thier line of BS.

There are no "absolutes"!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[jrwild62]

Why not, after all a while ago we all believed that the world was flat.
Belief is an amazing thing, you don't need proof to believe in anything.
After all we don't know for sure about either the Big Bang or God, yet we choose to believe.

We choose to believe because of ignorance. I will ask this, where did God live before he created the universe? In nothingness? Or a condo?

[Credendovidis]

We choose to believe because of ignorance. I will ask this, where did God live before he created the universe? In nothingness? Or a condo?

Good point!!

If we BELIEVE that "God" existed before the start of our universe , than "God" has still to be outside our universe accordingly to science and logic. ( If you blow a soap bubble, you can not be inside that bubble at the same time!! )

And being outside our universe means that "God" can not have any influence at all on what happens inside this universe.

That would explain why - were the creation story "true" , God never after the creation of the universe had any contact and influence there.

Unfortunately there is not even the slightest iota of OSE for God's existence, so we better concentrate on reality, i.e. the real cause for the "origin of the universe", for which the Big Bang seems to be an excellent and valid thesis.

:rolleyes:

[twilight-freak]

I honestly don't understand the logic of the last few people who have posted.

Jrwild: We don't know how old the Earth is according to science, either. Do you know how they date fossils, which has helped to determine the estimation of Earth's age? We use radioactive dating, by using carbon or other elements. Their halflives tell us how long that that fossil has been in existence, but tell me something. If a carbon's half life is around five thousand years old (if I remember correctly. I could be getting another element confused with this), how do we know that? No one can possibly know. They used computers and other technologies to tell them how that happened. But then, who told the computers this information? Someone had to program it into it, and that someone was human.
You say that the Bible says that the Earth is 6000 years old, but I have never seen dates in the Bible. Like your radioactive dating, this is just an estimation. The first three pages in the Bible, also in the book of Genesis, explains how we believe the Earth came to be. And I know your comeback will be "How can the Earth be created in seven days?". I've asked that very same question, including how could dinosaurs have existed if the earth was only here for seven days until Human was created. Like I said, there are no exact dates in the Bible. I don't know how much of the Bible you've read, but it often says that people lived to be well over 600 years old. Obviously, the times were marked completely different.
I'm not saying Creationism is the right one, but your big bang theories aren't so flawless either.

And you asked where God lives, if he doesn't live in this universe. Christians believe that he lives in HEAVEN. We don't know where that is, because if we did some idiots would try to get in and take over or something. And Christians believe that everyone that believes in him has part of him within themselves. And yes, God may not have physically walked on Earth, because he may not be a physical being, but Christians believe that he was here in spirit. But again, I'm not saying Christianity is right, this is just what I believe.


Here's my question for you: Why can't you guys just accept what is is, and quit trying to prove something that has been disproved for the past two centuries? Having belief in a higher being gives people hope that their lives won't always be so bad. Why do scientist want to prove that a higher being, someone who brings so much happiness to people just by that belief, doesn't exist? If you and other people believe that, that's fine if your happy with that. But why do they force that upon us in the classroom, when Christians aren't allowed to talk about Creationism in the classroom?

And I wasn't trying to lecture or preach to you at all. I was merely trying to show how both theories of how the Earth began aren't so flawless.

[Credendovidis]

"Can you believe in the Big Bang theory AND a God that created the universe or are they mutually exclusive?"

Yes you can BELIEVE in "God".
Yes you BELIEVE in the Big Bang.

However :

In "God" you can ONLY believe. There is no scientific evidence for the existence of "God".
In the Big Bang you can believe, but you can also check, test, and accept the scientific data supporting the Objective Supported Evidence (OSE) for the Big Bang.

Issues like evolution and the origin of the universe are slowly but surely getting backed-up better and better with scientific evidence.

But issues like the existence of "God" will always remain in the field of BELIEF and FAITH.


:)

.

.

[satswid]

The scientist came up of the idea of BigBang 40-50 years ago, that everything in universe was one piece, and then a big bang occurred and everything separated to form earth and every other thing in universe.
Allah says in qur'an 1400 years ago, in surah Ambiya, Chapter 4: Verse 30;
"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"

May Allah give you hidaya

[Credendovidis]

Dear satswid :

that is not entirely correct!

The cosmological model of the universe that is now referred to as the "Big Bang" refers to the model of the universe that expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day.

It was Edwin Hubble who discovered in 1929 that the distances to far away galaxies were generally proportional to their redshifts, indicating that all very distant galaxies and clusters have an apparent velocity directly away from our vantage point : the farther away, the higher their apparent velocity.

It was Georges Lemaître who proposed this expansion model, and it was Fred Hoyle who is credited with coining the phrase 'Big Bang' in a 1949 radio broadcast, although the term "Big Bang" itself was months earlier phrased by a couple of journalists in a publication.

===

By reversing the noted expansion, there can only be one conclusion : the universe started some 13 billion years ago from a single point. There was no actual "Bang", as for that sound is required, and sound requires gas molecules , something not available in one single point.

There was a sudden and very fast expansion. A newer theory includes a short but extremely fast "inflation" of time/space , faster than lightspeed. And yes : that is possible !
Science has still to explain what caused that expansion. But it took place, and is backed-up and supported by all lines of scientific evidence and observation.

===

It took around 9 - 10 Billion years before in one of the 100's of billions of galaxies with each hundreds of billions of stars a gas cloud collapsed into several stars, one of these stars being our sun, complete with a set of planets, mini-planets, planetoids, comets, and asteroids, including what we call today planet "earth".

So when "everything" separated after the "Big Bang" it was not to form "earth and every other thing in universe".
First to form was matter itself. And all that matter many hundreds of million years later condensed into all these gasclouds that produced these hundreds of billions of galaxies. Earth came much, much later...

:)

.

.

[satswid]

Every word of Noble Quran is nothing but the truth. Allah said it 1400 yrs ago, which scientist came to know, yesterday

[satswid]

Dear satswid :

that is not entirely correct!

The cosmological model of the universe that is now refered to as the "Big Bang" refers to the model of the universe that expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past, and continues to expand to this day.

It was Edwin Hubble who discovered in 1929 that the distances to far away galaxies were generally proportional to their redshifts, indicating that all very distant galaxies and clusters have an apparent velocity directly away from our vantage point : the farther away, the higher their apparent velocity.

It was Georges Lemaître who proposed this expansion model, and it was Fred Hoyle who is credited with coining the phrase 'Big Bang' in a 1949 radio broadcast, although the term "Big Bang" itself was months earlier phrased by a couple of journalists in a publication.

===

By reversing the noted expansion, there can only be one conclusion : the universe started some 13 billion years ago from a single point. There was no actual "Bang", as for that sound is required, and sound requires gas molecules , something not available in one single point.

There was a sudden and very fast expansion. A newer theory includes a short but extremely fast "inflation" of time/space , faster than lightspeed. And yes : that is possible !
Science has still to explain what caused that expansion. But it took place, and is backed-up and supported by all lines of scientific evidence and observation.

===

It took around 9 - 10 Billion years before in one of the 100's of billions of galaxies with each hundreds of billions of stars a gas cloud collapsed into several stars, one of these stars being our sun, complete with a set of planets, mini-planets, planetoids, comets, and asteroids, including what we call today planet "earth".

So when "everything" separated after the "Big Bang" it was not to form "earth and every other thing in universe".
First to form was matter itself. And all that matter many hundreds of million years later condensed into all these gasclouds that produced these hundreds of billions of galaxies. Earth came much, much later ....

:)

.

.

Dear brother Credendovidis;

Thank you for your scientifically explained answer

I can understand that very much of your answer may be correct. But lets not forget that it a "Theory". Have you ever heard of anything like "The fact of Big Bang"? The scientist cannot 100% prove anything related to creation.

I know that you may not believe in God. If you read my answer, I quoted a verse from Holy Quran, which says

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"

Now, can any human being write any book and keep it in front of the world and say that "you dont know and i do"?

I ask you, if you know anything about the world, which you know and the entire world don't know.

I know that your answer will be definitely NO.

So,who can write such a thing? its up to to you now to think.

Regarding your answer, if you go in past and explain your theory to the people 1400 yrs ago, will they be able to understand your answer, or Allah almighty's answer which I quoted.

Thank you again brother
May allah give you hidaya

[N0help4u]

The Bible does not prove the age of the earth.
It does not state how long humans have existed.
Christians believe that the earth and people were created only 6000 years ago because following the genealogy back in the Bible you come up with 6000 years. I believe the earth could be older but humans were created by God 6000 years with Adam and Eve.

[Capuchin]

Dear brother Credendovidis;

Thank you for your scientifically explained answer

I can understand that very much of your answer may be correct. But lets not forget that it a "Theory". Have you ever heard of anything like "The fact of Big Bang"?. The scientist cannot 100% proove anything related to creation.

I know that you may not believe in God. If you read my answer, i quoted a verse from Holy Quran, which says

"Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and We made every living thing of water? Will they not then believe?"

Now, can any human being write any book and keep it in front of the world and say that "you dont know and i do"??

I ask you, if you know anything about the world, which you know and the entire world dont know.

I know that your answer will be definately NO.

So,who can write such a thing?, its upto to you now to think.

Regarding your answer, if you go in past and explain your theory to the people 1400 yrs ago, will they be able to understand your answer, or Allah almighty's answer which i quoted.

Thank you again brother
May allah give you hidaya

I suggest you check the definition of scientific theory - it is something different from what you think it is. A Theory is an explanation that descruibes how all available evidence came to be. It is held in a somewhat higher regard than a mere fact.

[N0help4u]

How is scientific theory held as somewhat higher regard than mere fact?
If I remember correctly even Cred said a scientific theory is nothing more than a theory and not fact.
How can a scientific theory be higher regard than fact?
Can you give an example or two of theories (other than evolution) that are somewhat higher regard than fact?

[Capuchin]

How is scientific theory held as somewhat higher regard than mere fact?
If I remember correctly even Cred said a scientific theory is nothing more than a theory and not fact.
How can a scientific theory be higher regard than fact?
Can you give an example or two of theories (other than evolution) that are somewhat higher regard than fact?

Well, yes, all of them. General relativity, cell theory, quantum field theory, etcetc. A scientific theory is something that is the best explanation for all of the facts. It consolidates many facts and links them together to explain the world around us. A mere fact pales in comparison.