[InfoJunkie4Life]

You guys are arguing without bounds. You need some precedents.

First, the idea of a singularity universe is completely possible, according to fact. The thought that it came from an energy mass that was the collapse of another universe is also possible. This leaves us with an endless cycle, which is fine because as long as each universe has a preceding singularity, it can exist. When we ask where did the first come from? You can reply, there is no first, and no last.

Now, both creation theory and evolutionary creationism, have complete possibility, according to the facts. You ask where did everything come from? We respond, the creator. You as where he came from? We respond, he always was, and always will be.

Sound familiar?

Both take facts and manipulate them to their own desires, accomplishing nothing. When you look at a scientific fact with a biased mind, you can never draw accurate conclusions.

The founders of some of these theories are the true scientists. They spent years of their lives studying a small set of facts, and drew a conclusion, which the called a theory. Meaning it in the fullest sense of the word, neither provable nor disprovable.

You will find that anyone goes out looking for facts to support their theory, finds that their theory to be more important than the truth. How can you favor something and then set out on a quest to find it, and still be willing to look in the other direction if necessary?

You will find that the philosophy of the matter is debatable while the facts point any way you want them. I recommend you change your thinking and examine the facts as proof of nothing, and then form your own theory. After which you can compare to the more "popular" ones. Secondly, you should try to examine the situation logically, with no other purpose than the truth. Self righteousness will only leave you with lies and arrogance.

Use the science from other theories to form your own conclusions without considering theirs.

You must do this for all things, not just until you settle on a theory, but for all facts, because humans make mistakes. You may conclude something and then find new evidence that changes your conclusion.

[InfoJunkie4Life]

Just because this is my favorite topic of debate I have a couple of thoughts...

By definition a singularity is the same no matter what. It is dimensionless thus, has no density. If the universe came from this and will return to it, then 100% of the energy will be conserved. That means the beginning will be exactly like the end. Wouldn't this result in a repeated universe?

This force cannot be acted on by an outside force, so how then can each universe be different?

Secondly:

Notice how the first two paragraphs end very similarly in my previous post? I really wonder why. Science and religion seem to be arguing about two separate things that point to the same pretext. How we define that pretext really is the question here.

I find that people who submit to evolution or the big bang, refuse to "submit" to religion. Often times they find it mundane and pointless. Not to mention they would hate giving up that kind of control over their life. They believe that what ever they believe is truth, egocentric.

On the other hand you will find that those who favor the religious point of view refuse to look at all the facts. They pick, and just repeat themselves when something they can't explain happens. They will close their minds when the thinking is outside their realm.

[FlyYakker]

So, in short we don't really know. "God" works if you are religious, but otherwise, it's pretty speculative and there are a bunch of very bright folks thinking about it.

By the way, rdwray, black holes will probably never be seen, but their effects have been. There is at least one black hole in the middle of our galaxy.

[Capuchin]

So, in short we don't really know. "God" works if you are religious, but otherwise, it's pretty speculative and there are a bunch of very bright folks thinking about it.

By the way, rdwray, black holes will probably never be seen, but their effects have been. There is at least one black hole in the middle of our galaxy.

How do you see anything, short of their effects?

[InfoJunkie4Life]

That's a valid point. If it were dark all of the time, we would no longer "see" anything around us, because the visual effect would be gone. We would have to find it by other means.

The same goes for a black hole, it is void of all things, a giant drain hole. If light can never escape it, then there is no possibility of "seeing" it. We can, however, by other means, detect it. Either by gravity fluctuations or by spirals of gas and light around it, caught in a momentary orbit. I suppose it is even possible for a black hole to pass in front of some distant star leaving a dark "mass" in the center for a few moments.

But our eyes will never detect reflected, or generated light off it, itself.