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clarityseeker · May 9, 2007, 11:14 AM

Hi everyone,

I very much need advice on a specific question as soon as possible. I have spent the last week browsing many threads on this site and find that it is the only place to turn to get level-headed perspectives on these things. However, after all my browsing, I haven't found a consensus on one question.

Here's my situation: for seven months, my girlfriend and I (she's 30, I'm 27) have been in a long-distance relationship that flowed out of a friendship while we were in the same city. We've had a couple of big fights and quite a few little fights, but generally have an amazing time when we're together and both love each other. She's an alpha female, the kind who in her past would definitely be the one picking the guy up at the bar, not vice versa. This, of course, has led to commitment issues in the past which she's told me about. But she genuinely seemed to care about making this one work, and expressed that she had feelings for me that she hadn't felt before for anyone.

A week and a half ago, I woke up to an early weekend phone call where she asked how my night had been and then moved right to a "I have to say I'm having serious doubts about our relationship" discussion. She said she felt a bit numb, confused about life (she's finishing her last few weeks as an articling student at a busy law firm) and unsure whether relationships in general are meant for her. This is also a girl with family issues (she only fully trusts her sister) and diagnosed with an untreatable organ disease a few years ago that may mean she only has a decade or so left to live. I responded poorly - got anxious, asked her if she still loved me, whether she was still attracted to me, whether she thought her feelings were going to change. I know, uuuuugh, especially after browsing this site. I then said "I'll send you your stuff, please don't contact me again" and hung up. She sent me an email ten minutes later saying "I didn't mean to have that conversation...I felt like you were pushing me to a resolution that might not be the right one...I may try to come to see you tonight or tomorrow." I responded that I was upset, and that if she wanted to come down to work it out, I'm not happy, but I will, but if she's coming down to break up in person to feel better, don't bother. She replied that perhaps she shouldn't come down, how bad she felt, so on, she needs time to think, but that I could call her later to talk if I wanted. I didn't respond for two days. I then wrote her that I was thinking about her, and that we should talk. She responded that she was sick to her stomach over it and definitely wanted to talk - two days later. Anyway, the call started well but she then said she wanted a break until I was in town in a few weeks to take my sister to a concert for her birthday. This is coincidentally the same weekend she finds out if she gets hired back by her firm. She said that we could decide then if we should get back together, but she wasn't sure at this point. I suggested we stay together, I would give her the space she needed until then, and then we would meet to see if we could work things out. She was insistent that it be a full break until then, as she wanted things to be "simpler" for a while and needed a few weeks away. When I clarified about seeing other people, she was ambiguous, saying it was "highly unlikely" and that "there's a difference between being open to seeing other people and wanting to see other people." Don't ask me how to translate that. She said that she wasn't looking to see other people and that she would miss me and still loved me and all that jazz. Four days went by, I went through a lot of pain, then finally I think I did the right thing. I sent her her stuff by mail with a note that said "I now understand that this is over. And I don't need the breakup 'process' that you've described going through in the past. Good luck with hirebacks, and whatever else life holds for you." Btw, the "process" is something she's described using to dump guys in the past. It obviously felt like I was getting the same treatment.

She emailed me the next day (this morning) to say that she got my package, thanked me, and said my note left it unclear whether I wanted to see her the weekend I'm in town. She asked "could I let her know" and "I would like to see you." I haven't responded.

From browsing this site, I know that the key things with a break are: Give her the space she asks for. No contact for 2 months. You can't keep someone who doesn't want to keep you/be kept.

However, my big question for everyone (sorry this post is so long) is: when do you know that she definitely wants you back? What kinds of things does she have to say/do for you to break the no-contact rule and return her calls and give her a chance to tell you she wants you back? Some people have said she has to be beating down your door - what do people think that means exactly? I don't want to give her another opportunity to let me down on her terms, but I don't want to pass up an opportunity to resolve this. Is her emailing me to say "I would to like to see you" when I'm in town enough? Should I respond "What specifically would you like to see me about?" or just literally ignore her until she elevates the intensity of her desire to see me?

Any help would be much appreciated.

mckenzie134 · May 9, 2007, 06:32 PM

Maybe give it another week and see if she emails again.

Im 28 had a 22 yold girlfriend we were together for 3 years and she wanted a break, we had a break for two weeks were still talking thoiugh and then we were back on. I did not discuss anything with her about the relationship it just seemed to continue. 6 months later she did the same thing. I now know once they want a break they are losing the love its slowly dwindleing away and it may never be the same. I got my girlfriend back and for a few months she was so in love but then again bang gone and now she's gone for good. A break can be OK but I believe you need tyo get her keener and even if this does happen it probably still won't work sorry to say but she will probably once again fall back into her not to sure routine and will dump you again down the line. I hope it woorks out for you but many people who have been dumped and got there exs back have been dumped again in a shoprt amount of time...

chuff · May 9, 2007, 11:38 PM

You don't have to wait until she knocks down your door but you do have to let her decide and make it stick. By that I mean that you can't be calling her every other day and asking if she's ready. That's just not going to work.

So back off and let her do her thing. If she calls you ignore it. If she wants to talk to you bad enough make her work for it. Make her call several times. Then when she talks to you make it short. Make her realize you won't always be there for her.

Jiser · May 10, 2007, 01:32 AM

Simple, you don't chase!

clarityseeker · May 10, 2007, 02:52 PM

Thanks a lot for the advice, guys. I've had a tough time deciding whether to reply, especially because she asked specific questions ("should I mail your stuff back, too?" "do you still want to see each you're in town? i would like to see you."). I understand why you have to go no contact (ie not to push her away forever by looking like you're chasing) but it still is hard to apply the NC rule in practice because it's hard to know how much reaching out from her is enough for you to know that maybe she's reconsidered. In other words, where the line is between a girl who just wants to know you're there as backup if she's met a new guy or a girl or who just feels guilty and wants to know you don't hate her so she feels better/less guilty and a girl who genuinely realizes it was a mistake to break up and wants to try again. I know that this kind of talk sounds like I'm living in the movies, and mckenzie, I appreciate the lessons you learned from your story about this being a cycle after it happens once, but a tiny part of me thinks that maybe it's possible to start over and give it another shot, especially when you've found someone you love and who supposedly loves you, which is rare (especially for me). Maybe that's just me not facing the hard cold reality of the situation, but I still wonder what a girl has to do specifically for the guy to know that it's worth calling back or picking up the phone or answering an email, even considering that he risks getting punched in the gut even harder. Hope that makes some sense.

diya · May 10, 2007, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by chuff

You don't have to wait until she knocks down your door but you do have to let her decide and make it stick. By that I mean that you can't be calling her every other day and asking if she's ready. That's just not going to work.

So back off and let her do her thing. If she calls you ignore it. If she wants to talk to you bad enough make her work for it. Make her call several times. Then when she talks to you make it short. Make her realize you won't always be there for her.

I want to know, she may get the feeling that he's no more interested, though he actually is... so by ignoring coupla times, u think she would still chase... and that the relationship can be mended by ignoring... at all?

talaniman · May 10, 2007, 04:49 PM

If the relationship could be mended, you would never have broken up in the first place. Two people who love each other equally do not break up, but work together to overcome whatever obstacles are before them. A break up is always when one partner has a change of heart, for whatever reason and wants to change. No contact, and that's what's needed here give you the chance to get over the intense emotions, and see things in a clear and realistic way. We owe it to ourselves to heal ,and get healthy. I am still waiting for some one to get an ex back, and not be confused or break up again over whatever reason. Accept that its over, and move on.

chuff · May 10, 2007, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by diya

I want to know, she may get the feeling that he's no more interested, though he actually is...so by ignoring coupla times, u think she would still chase....and that the relationship can be mended by ignoring......at all??

This is a great question. Remember SHE told him that she wasn't sure about the relationship. He didn't see this coming. Given this situation he should do exactly as she asks and no less. If she wants a break then she's got to live with it for awhile. See the problem is she might have said that, then still expected him to stick around as an emotional sponge, or friend, or booty call, or whatever else. But by doing that to him she is disrespecting him, and her own request for a break. What she is essentially asking for is a free ride to use him.

Well since she asked for the break it's up to him to teach her that he is to be respected and he respects her wishes by following through. If she suddenly realizes that she made a mistake, that's not his problem. He was fine with the relationship until she dumped him. And lets be honest, asking for a break is dumping someone without the emotional drop off and problems that come with saying that. Plus a break keeps him at arms bay in case she needs his ear for all her problems.

Well, if she truly values him and what he brings to her life then after she calls for the break she will go out of her way to get him back. I've had this happen twice to me, and this was before I was even aware of sites like this and the "rules." But both times they broke up with me, and more through my bitterness then my smarts I kept them away when they came back. But by being so guarded they tried and put forth an effort to get me. Now the truth be told, it never worked out after that and it was different.

I can't say if it would be different for him or not but if she misses him bad enough, she'll find a way to contact him.

clarityseeker · May 13, 2007, 09:04 AM

Thanks for the further advice, guys - I ended up emailing her the next day, but before you roll your eyes and shake your head, I made it very emotionally neutral and I had to because I need my stuff back. I just wrote: "I don't think that seeing each other anymore is a good idea. As for mailing my stuff back, it would be appreciated." She wrote back: "OK. I will put your stuff in the mail ASAP. If you change your mind, the offer is still open on my end, for us to see each other." That I will not respond to. I'm going down for my sister's birthday in a couple of weekends (same city), but I'll have to stay strong and not go for the meeting she's proposed. I wondered for a second whether I should see how her hirebacks go (same weekend as I'm coming in, and a big deal for her) but I re-read the great advice (especially a couple things said by chuff and talaniman) and I think that would be stupid. Any advice on where to go from here or whether I'm on the right track would be appreciated.

talaniman · May 13, 2007, 11:05 AM

As long as your on the path to healing and getting healthy your doing all right. If you can give us an update as to how your dealing with things.

clarityseeker · May 15, 2007, 07:50 AM

Thanks for the response talaniman. I'm dealing a bit better, but still wake up to sort of a panic and tightness in my chest, reliving the realization that it's over each time I wake up.

I guess the most frustrating thing (and perhaps it's just me not facing reality) is that the no-contact rule seems to be just another way of saying that it is impossible to repair a broken relationship. Because, obviously, I can't get back together with her if I don't return her calls/emails from now until the day I die. And that was my original question - has anyone encountered ANY set of circumstances where a guy is disciplined and ignores her for A WHILE (let's say 1-3 months) and something happens that I should look out for to indicate that it's worth taking a risk and giving it another shot?

I know that I can't get over her, talaniman, until I accept that I've lost her and that she's gone forever and just heal, but are there any exceptional circumstances that you think present a gray area on whether it's OK to try again? Remember that this is a girl I fell deeply in love with, and I've not new to the dating game - I know the odds of feeling this kind of love again are not high - not to be cynical, but I think it's likely true in my case.

And I'm still unsure whether to ask her about whether she was hired back at the place she's working the weekend I'm in town (same day I arrive) and whether any set of circumstances between now and then would mean I should agree to her offer of a meeting.

Don't mean to seem like I'm not getting the point, just some unanswered questions.

Thanks.

Jiser · May 15, 2007, 07:58 AM

Don't hold onto false hope my friend as everyone does. Any little thing and you latch on like a parasite. NOT GOOD! NOT ATTRACTIVE!

You must have a life, you must enjoy yourself, try new things, go on holiday, travel, get a new passion in your life, try changing any routines you have, go out and party, change yourself if possible for the better :P This is far more attractive.

You need time to work on yourself before reconciliation of any sort of light contact and by the way it should probably be on her behalf not yours. If she wants to meet up give it at least a few months before and keep it cool and light + SLOW.

talaniman · May 15, 2007, 09:33 AM

clarityseeker]Thanks for the response talaniman. I'm dealing a bit better, but still wake up to sort of a panic and tightness in my chest, reliving the realization that it's over each time I wake up.

Normal and to be expected as everything is still fresh and emotions are high.

I guess the most frustrating thing (and perhaps it's just me not facing reality) is that the no-contact rule seems to be just another way of saying that it is impossible to repair a broken relationship. Because, obviously, I can't get back together with her if I don't return her calls/emails from now until the day I die.

Frustrating is an understatement and trust me I know how hard a pill no contact is to swallow, very first hand. Let me tell you this though and you can take it to the bank, You can't fix this relationship with no help. IT TAKES YOU BOTH. No Contact only is the way to go until you get healthy enough to see things realistically and make decisions based on facts not emotions.

And that was my original question - has anyone encountered ANY set of circumstances where a guy is disciplined and ignores her for A WHILE (let's say 1-3 months)

This forum is full of them, it helps if you go thru the forum and just click on the name and view profile and then click on Questions asked by..............

And something happens that I should look out for to indicate that it's worth taking a risk and giving it another shot?

When your healthy and she calls and wants to try to make it work and that's what you want. Honestly most of us see things different when we ind our health, and would rather move forward and not back, Go figure.

I know that I can't get over her, talaniman, until I accept that I've lost her and that she's gone forever and just heal,

No one knows about forever but acceptance is a strong step toward healing.

but are there any exceptional circumstances that you think present a gray area on whether it's OK to try again?

If your both healthy and are willing to work on solving your problems to the benefit of you both.

Remember that this is a girl I fell deeply in love with, and I've not new to the dating game - I know the odds of feeling this kind of love again are not high - not to be cynical, but I think it's likely true in my case.

I understand you feeling like that now, but you can't know what life has in store for you. Maybe you can't see it at the moment, but those are your feelings, and not your common sense talking. I hope you see how easily our feelings color how we perceive things. It can make things appear real to you but it isn't.

And I'm still unsure whether to ask her about whether she was hired back at the place she's working the weekend I'm in town (same day I arrive) and whether any set of circumstances between now and then would mean I should agree to her offer of a meeting.

If she calls and wants to meet, why not just don't expect the world to change, or react like a fool, or with malice. Be a gentleman. Would I call???I would not, but you are not me. If you do, be brief, friendly and sociable. Tell no lies, and make no promises.

Don't mean to seem like I'm not getting the point, just some unanswered questions.

If you took the time to ask, I will answer, and try to be honest. If I don't know the answer, I guess we both will have to look for it LOL

Thanks

Anytime :)

clarityseeker · May 15, 2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

And I'm still unsure whether to ask her about whether she was hired back at the place she's working the weekend I'm in town (same day I arrive) and whether any set of circumstances between now and then would mean I should agree to her offer of a meeting.

If she calls and wants to meet, why not just don't expect the world to change, or react like a fool, or with malice. Be a gentleman. Would I call???I would not, but you are not me. If you do, be brief, friendly and sociable. Tell no lies, and make no promises.

Thanks for the awesome breakdown, talaniman - it helps to get continually shaken by the shoulders in times like these. And also thanks jiser for the words on false hope and taking it slow if it somehow revives.

The only thing that leaves me still confused is - well, I should probably provide a bit more detail on the last communications and try to fit it into the no-contact rule and how it comes off. Basically, when she asked for the break, she said why don't we meet in a few weeks when I'm coincidentally in town for my sister's birthday and talk about whether we can get back together, but she wasn't sure at that point. I mailed her her stuff four days later with a note that said: "I understand this is over. And I don't need the breakup 'process' that you've described going through in the past. Good luck with hirebacks, and whatever else life holds for you." She got her stuff in the mail, sent me an email that basically said "Thanks for my stuff - I can mail you your stuff too if you like. Your note left it unclear whether you still want to meet that weekend you're in town. Could you let me know - I would like to see you." I replied a day later with: "I don't think that seeing each other anymore is a good idea. As for mailing my stuff back, it would be appreciated." To which she replied a day later: "OK. I will mail your stuff back ASAP. If you change your mind, the offer is still open, for us to see each other."

I know there's no right answer here, but talaniman, if I ignore her up until and throughout that weekend (which is two weekends from now) I'm consistent with my message from my note/email that "I'm not running back to you/letting you (perhaps) let me down gently on your terms so you feel better." But I come off as malicious, as you put it, for not even hearing what she has to say or asking about something that has been central to her life while we were together (getting hired back). If I change my mind and agree to meet her and ask her about hirebacks, even if I'm cool and relaxed and funny and whatever, it reeks of being fake and lacking integrity, because, as jiser says, it's like I'm a parasite latching on when she says she's there to talk, and I might feel used as friend material, which I'm sure would feel even worse. And it makes my notes and email, which were words of strength, appear meaningless. Anyway, perhaps overanalyzing, but it all comes down to a simple decision - accept her offer to meet when I'm there/ask her about hirebacks/be the "gentleman" OR ignore the offer/stick with no contact/perhaps appear malicious and petty but at least stay consistent with my earlier note/email. Any thoughts on this long-winded dilemma would be appreciated.

talaniman · May 15, 2007, 11:56 AM

If she sees it as malicious so what? Its not about her or how she feels, its about you and what you want to do. As I pointed out I wouldn't go if I felt like I couldn't handle it with dignity.
.

clarityseeker · May 16, 2007, 01:22 PM

AskMen.com - Get back together

Reading stuff like the above is part of what makes me so confused about whether to accept the offer to see her. Although the guy who wrote it probably hasn't read any of the posts on this site. Whether it does or doesn't come off as malicious to ignore her, all I know is that I would be willing to make the effort to get back together if she was. And her offer to meet in a couple of weeks could be a critical window to that potentially happening. At the same time, it's impossible to find out if she wants that unless she explicitly raises it, because I can't be the one doing the asking or I'll look needy. So I guess it comes down to whether to meet up, not raise it myself, and see if she does. Might lead to clarity, might lead to further frustration and going back to square one.

clarityseeker · May 24, 2007, 09:48 AM

About a week ago, she emailed me apologizing for not mailing my stuff back sooner, saying she'd barely had a moment to breathe with work and hoping I understand. Then went on to say it would be good to chat the weekend I'm in (to remind, this has been a long-distance deal), preferably face-to-face, perhaps coffee, ended by saying she hoped I knew she missed me. I responded a few hours later with coffee works, as long as you're buying, to try to keep things light. To which she replied - sure, you say when. I didn't respond, a few hours later she emails that she's unclear when we're meeting, and I respond that we can chat the weekend I'm in town. No response after that. Tomorrow is the day she finds out if she's hired back by the firm she's working for and I'm taking my sister to a concert for her birthday. Any advice on how to handle this weekend, considering I won't be back there for a while? I feel like I need to find out what she's thinking, but don't want to go back to square one of getting over her with the "let's just be friends" talk. Is it wrong to ask her by email/phone what she wants to chat about, or is that just focusing too much on my needs and not hers? Anyway, quite confused on how to handle it, any advice would be appreciated.

chuff · May 24, 2007, 03:02 PM

I think you are way to focused on her needs and not yours. In fact if she wants to talk to you I think you should make her do all the contacting of you. Don't contact her at all for anything. I get the feeling this is some test to see when you will call and meet with her. I wouldn't call her at all and if she doesn't call you skip meeting with her. I think she's expecting you to be at her beck and call whenever she wants you to be. I would make sure she gets the message you are worth more then that and she will have to come to you, not you go to her or even a 50/50 split. This whole thing seems to be more about her then it does you and she lost that right when she broke up.

clarityseeker · May 24, 2007, 08:53 PM

Thanks guys - this sounds like good advice. I won't be the one to contact her, although I was vague a week ago about meeting this weekend - didn't set a time or place. But I hear what you're saying about her needing to make the effort here. I guess if she contacts me I'll meet her and see what she has to say (but only once, just to know for sure and not be left wondering with false hope), otherwise I'll just let the weekend pass and know that it didn't matter enough to her to make the effort.

The complicating factor here is the long-distance thing. I've read a lot of stories here about how if there's any chance of things working out after a break, you need to spend the first meeting with no relationship talk, just being light and fun and like you were when you first met, no pressure. If we do meet, it's hard to take it as slow as I'd like and do that because I don't know when I'll be in there next, and to make a special trip (even though family is there) might not happen for quite a while. In other words, it's hard not to need an answer. I almost want to just email and ask what she wants to talk about, but know that may make things worse.

Something in my gut tells me I'm still way off here on how I'm approaching this, but I can't seem to pin down exactly what it is. If there's something you see that I'm missing here, please let me know. I haven't been thinking very clearly lately - everything seemed fine a week ago, and then the fog set in again.

clarityseeker · May 24, 2007, 09:20 PM

Another thing is that she finds out tomorrow whether she is hired back to the firm she's been working at (in other words, whether she keeps her job there). She's been slaving at this place through our whole relationship (seven months) and for me not to call to at least ask about that would basically be a slap in her face. Not that she didn't slap me in the face by asking for the break during these last few weeks of her work stuff, but if I want this to work out, which I do, not calling would pretty much ice it I think. Am I right on this?