[Starman]

If the Chinese were as militariily as advanced as the Discovery Channel portrays then why
Were they so easily dominated by Europeans? Cannon? They had cannons before the Europeans had them. Ocean going ships? They had them. Add to this flamethrowers land mines, superior catapults, rockets, and one has to wonder why they seemingly sat back while Europe steamrolled over them using the very things that the Chinese had invented centuries before.

Weird!


BTW
It certainly wasn't because they were inherently peaceloving.

[Matt3046]

It was mostly the same in, Africa, the middle east, India and other places. I personal think that it was because by the time of all the European, imperialism, the Europeans had been pretty much fighting each other off and on for thousands of years and had the "art of war" down. But it was actually probably the industrial revolution that gave them such a advantage. They simply were able to take anything make it better and then mass produce it.

[ebaines]

You should read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond. He presents an interesting argument as to how the accidents of geography and environment helped the Europeans dominate so many other cultures. His thesis regarding China is a bit of a stretch in my opinion - basically he thinks that China is so large and homogenous, and has had so few outside invaders over the millennia that they were not forced to develop and improve new weapons or war strategies. Hence while they had gun powder and rockets. They were used mainly for celebrations, not war. He also maintains that Chinese culture and economy was much more controlled from a central government, which probably stifled innovation compared to the more free-wheeleing western world. It is an excellent book - I highly recommned it, as well as the follow-up book he wrote called "Collapse."

Here's the Wikipedia article on his book: Guns, Germs, and Steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Matt3046]

Germs played a big part. In some places (like Africa) it was the Europeans who could not go into the jungle. But then as medical care got better, they did and European Germs killed millions.

[Starman]

You should read "Guns, Germs, and Steel" by Jared Diamond. He presents an interesting argument as to how the accidents of geography and environment helped the Europeans dominate so many other cultures. His thesis regarding China is a bit of a stretch in my opinion - basically he thinks that China is so large and homogenous, and has had so few outside invaders over the millenia that they were not forced to develop and improve new weapons or war strategies. Hence while they had gun powder and rockets. they were used mainly for celebrations, not war. He also maintains that Chinese culture and economy was much more controlled from a central government, which probably stifled innovation compared to the more free-wheeleing western world. It is an excellent book - I highly recommned it, as well as the follow-up book he wrote called "Collapse."

Here's the Wikipedia article on his book: Guns, Germs, and Steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the book recommendation I'll check it out later today since my computor isn't permitting me to surf to other sites at this moment.


Yes, I'm familiar with the
Mass production and Industrial Revolution cause for European military superiority. It's actually the Chinese attitude toward weapons which they themselves invented that I can't understand. Actually, Chinese were using mass production before the Europeans were.


Also, according to the Discovery Channel's program on Chinese military prowess prior to the European emergence, the Chinese were always devising new ways for making warfare more deadly. A machine-gun-like crossbow. Catapults that could hurl projectiles a mile. Flame throwers, dragon shaped anti ship rockets--land-mines and cannons. All these innovative killing weapons against each other and against their enemies and the concepts behind them were at their disposal when the Europeans challenged.


BTW
They were making and USING those weapons before the Europeans even had an inkling that such weapons could be made. So it's their reaction when confronted with these same weapons that puzzles me.

[Starman]

Germs played a big part. in some places (like Africa) it was the Europeans who could not go into the jungle. But then as medical care got better, they did and European Germs killed millions.

Yes, I know.
But germs were not a factor in China.