[CaptainRich]

I just watched a story about our borders and lack of being able to control them, and the guy they interviewed said the twelve million illegals already in this country, without documentation or credential, should be aloud to stay... because "they're here already" No account on how they are taking but not giving to the system. They will use it up till what they came here for fails all of U.S.

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes of course the 12 million is merely an estimate, since there is no way to actually count them, since they are of course illegal.
But of course they do give they pay rent, which pays owners who buy things, pays the property taxes. They pay sales taxes, license plates and car taxes and the ones that buy homes, even pay property taxes directly, so in general most of the local taxes are being paid by them.
Also many pay more taxes than we do, since they use fake social secuity numbers and they don't get to file taxes and get a refund, so all of their tax money stays with the IRS. So they are a large part of our economy.
Now of course that does not make them legal or give them a right to be here.

But just the plain honest truth, since all of them just by being here get all of the US constitutional rights, they all would have to have a hearing before they could be deported, they would have to be funished legal cousel and the such. Many would die of old age before they could get a court date if all were ordered to report to the court or enter the system.
By law we can't just send them back without hearings and rights to appeal,

The main thing at this point is to close the boarder, since the us over time could absorb the current group here.

But 12 million is the reason nothing is being done, 12 million voters can swing an electoin.

[Km104]

Border Control or lack there of:

California is Utopia of Illegal Immigrants - and yet they are allowed to now have credit cards via Bank of America. Some do have US social security numbers and are still illegal. You can get a SS card as an illegal. Good to know. The facts are facts. If you're an Illegal alien in the US and continue to reside in the US.

As Individuals
Your not tested for diseases * which is huge
Your not within any legal rights of being an American Citizen
Your not able to pay into the economy - your making the ecomony down grade due to being paid under the table.
You using Tax payers dollars for health care and assistance as it is needed
You're a liability with nothing to back you or insure you
They are taking up public schools with their illegal children - who need Langauge bearing teachers.. so they can learn. Taking away from US Legal citizens in Public Schools.
And your having Anchor babies to make for the reason of citizenship
And there are Millions of these people

And Our Govt seems to sweep them and the issues under the rug
Sigh

[CaptainRich]

Around here, many live in contractor subsidised housing ( the contractor's subdivision allows "squaters")(these are new dwelings that I, too would like to live in for free/cheap), there often not even on the market (demos, etc.), so the "rent" isn't taxed or probably even properly booked. Do you know what I'm talking about? A lot is so totally underground to keep those who are paid to pay attention from "seeing." It seems too many people are making it too easy to so tataly not pay attention: "I didn't know/see/hear. I wasn't told/ didn't get the e-mail/ live somewhere else/been busy... so ignore/allow...

Yes of course the 12 million is merely an estimate, since there is no way to actually count them, since they are of course illegal.
But of course they do give they pay rent, which pays owners who buy things, pays the property taxes. They pay sales taxes, license plates and car taxes and the ones that buy homes, even pay property taxes directly, so in general most of the local taxes are being paid by them.
Also many pay more taxes than we do, since they use fake social secuity numbers and they dont' get to file taxes and get a refund, so all of thier tax money stays with the IRS. So they are a large part of our economy.
Now of course that does not make them legal or give them a right to be here.

But just the plain honest truth, since all of them just by being here get all of the US constitutional rights, they all would have to have a hearing before they could be deported, they would have to be funished legal cousel and the such. Many would die of old age before they could get a court date if all were ordered to report to the court or enter the system.
By law we can't just send them back without hearings and rights to appeal,

The main thing at this point is to close the boarder, since the us over time could absorb the current group here.

But 12 million is the reason nothing is being done, 12 million voters can swing an electoin.

RIGHTS TO APPEAL?!?!

If someone, anyone, broke into your house and said, "I'm just here for a better life." Would that make him your guest, Fr Chuck?

[Fr_Chuck]

Did not say it was right, but under US laws, the illegal has to have a hearing with legal rights prior to being deported and they have a right to appeal their first courts ruling. Nashville city just got permission from the federal government to start inforceing immigration ( police are not allowed normally to do immigration but have to by law release them if being illegal is their only crime) but the police in nashville have gotten formal permission from the Feds to inforce and had to set up their own courts to hear the cases.

[excon]

Hello again, Captain:

I asked you this question before. You didn't answer. I'm going to ask again.

Let's say you live in Indiana. Jobs are scarce in Indiana. In fact there are NO jobs in Indiana. You are forced to collect cans to feed your family.

In Illinois, however, there are jobs. But, Illinois want to protect its workers, so they made it illegal for anyone to come into their state.

So, you walk up to the border. You look across the line and see a help wanted sign over there. Your children are hungry. What?? You're going to sit there??

excon

[CaptainRich]

Hello again, Captain:

I asked you this question before. You didn't answer. I'm gonna ask again.

Let's say you live in Indiana. Jobs are scarce in Indiana. In fact there are NO jobs in Indiana. You are forced to collect cans to feed your family.

In Illinois, however, there are jobs. But, Illinois want to protect its workers, so they made it illegal for anyone to come into their state.

So, you walk up to the border. You look across the line and see a help wanted sign over there. Your children are hungry. What??? You're gonna sit there???

excon

They probably have better schools for your children, too. Better hospitals for the ill. Yea, and better jobs. Lotsa jobs. With security. Hope for the future. But do you want me to explain the difference between state borders and how it's not illegal to cross, and the soveirgn border of this great country. Someone asked Tony Blair why he felt the way he does about the US, he said something to the affect, "I measure the qualities of a country by looking at how many people want to get in and how many people want to get out."
Does that make it OK to break the laws? Is it now OK to just take what you want? Do as you please? What if I wanted a nice piece of beachfront property in California or Cancun or Morocco...

[excon]

Hello again, Captain:

Thanks for addressing my question.

First, to a hungry guy, a line in the dirt, is a line in the dirt. He doesn't much care that it's an international border or a state border. My example, hopefully, pointed that out.

I understand what you're railing about. I don't like it either. I think we should have a policy that allows in plenty of workers so there won't be any work for the illegal's. But, we don't do that. What we DO, is not let enough workers in, and then we're surprised when they sneak in. Well, I'M not surprised, but evidently the politicians in Washington are.

However, I would ask you again to try to empathize with the hungry father looking over the border at the help wanted sign. You want him to NOT cross the border because it's illegal to do so. I think it's a very unrealistic want.

Laws work better when they're based on realism. Hoping people won't do something, because some politician wrote down some words in a book, is like mental masturbation.

So, I ask you again. Would those written words affect you, or would your hungry children? It's easy to say that YOU wouldn't cross the border - but your kids aren't hungry.

And finally, I ask you to consider what we're talking about here. It's a JOB. They want to WORK. They don't want to TAKE anything. Coming here to work is a lot different than coming here to steal. Hopefully, you can see the difference.

excon

[gogosean]

I just watched a story about our borders and lack of being able to control them, and the guy they interviewed said the twelve million illegals already in this country, without documentation or credential, should be aloud to stay... because "they're here already" No account on how they are taking but not giving to the system. They will use it up till what they came here for fails all of U.S.

You are absolutely incorrect when you claim they are not giving to the system. Your post simply reflects the fact that you have no basic understanding of economics. If a business spends millions in labor each year and sets some aside for profit and some aside to lower its prices, you, the middle class pontificator, are getting your lifestlye subsidized by below market labor. Also, if a business saves millions in labor costs and keeps it as profit, they are paying taxes at a CORPORATE tax rate, which is way higher than a poor person's indiviual tax rate. Your bottom line is that everything you buy is cheaper because of immigrants being all around the supply chain and your taxes are lower.

The uneducated in this country buy into fear mongering about immigrants. The US government collects a lot more tax revenue by taxing the corporations savings on labor than the immigrant's labor taxes would have been. So now you get to shop at Wal-Mart a little cheaper, and your income taxes are lower.

Before you post about what you see on TV, read a book or two on the topic and educate yourself. The real agenda of Bill Oreilly and the other people you watch on Fox News is racism, because the economic arguments are pro immigrant. Sounds like you get a lot of info from TV...

As far as Bank of America is concerned, try paying Western Union a devastating percentage of your income to give it to a family that would starve otherwise. Bank of America's credit products are humanitarian and progressive. Immigrants are not the only audience for accessible credit products. What they are doing is nothing short of buying in to cutting edge economics research that shows micro credit can have a profund impact on the US underclass. BOA should lauded for their humanitarian efforts, which existed long before these new credit products.

So, smart guys, do we deny the underpriveledged citizens of this country credit because you have a beef with Mexicans? When you buy the lettuce at the grocery store, it is picked by an immigrant who has already had his taxes taken out under an assumed social security number. Now he has to sell his soul to Western Union to feed his family while you are feeding your face with lettuce you got from the bargain bin. Now that you your mouth is full of lettuce, you start babbling on and on about the leeches from Mexico. Stop watching TV and start doing a little reading.

When you are done kicking all the Mexicans out, who are you going to kick out next? Will it be the Chinese or people from India. Are you going to start claiming that they should not have slots open for them at universtities because all the midddle class in the US can't compete on their own terms? Do you feel robbed because your job working as a bus boy was taken by a Mexican? When you are done throwing them out of the country, will you put on the apron and start collecting dishes from dirty tables, or are you just a middle class consumer of the fear mongering people use to get elected to office?

[GingaBeatcha]

I just watched a story about our borders and lack of being able to control them, and the guy they interviewed said the twelve million illegals already in this country, without documentation or credential, should be aloud to stay... because "they're here already" No account on how they are taking but not giving to the system. They will use it up till what they came here for fails all of U.S.

Omfg I love immigrants, they are so cheap to hire, I haven't been lonely since the channel tunnel was built. Love those es xxx Daniel Turner of 32 houghton road Grantham UK

[CaptainRich]

The bigger issue, the huge white elephant in the middle of the room, as I have heard it called, is not about just Mexicans but about border control, itself. If you can't focus on that, we don't have a conversation.

[talaniman]

There is a compelling argument to immigrants who come here since you have to consider that there are more than 4,000 factories within 50 miles of the border on the Mexican sidehttp://www.cfomaquiladoras.org/borderworkerstruggle.en.html
So with all these jobs and being exploited by American business they still come for a better life while American companies make big profits, with no oversight either here in the US or in Mexico. Add that to the fact that the laws are ignored for those using illegals for labor gives compelling evidence that our government has no intention of stemming the illegal march to America and has policies in place that encourage them to come here. I can't blame them, even when the plants relocate, their the conditions and pay are third world so its not like they have a lot of choices so don't blame them for coming, Call George and ask him what the heck is he up to.This was sent to me by a friend in the north,
Yeh that would work. Enjoy the bird feeder below. Herby

I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with
> seed.
>
> Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous
> flow of free and easily accessible food. But then the birds started
> building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to
> the barbecue.
>
> Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the
> table... Everywhere. Then some of the birds turned mean: They
> would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my
> own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud: They sat on the
> feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and
> demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.
>
> After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. I took
> down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up
> their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.
> Soon, the back yard was like it used to be... Quite, serene and no one
> demanding their rights to a free meal.
>
> Now lets see... Our government gives out free food, subsidized housing,
> free medical care, free education and allows anyone born here to be a
> automatic citizen. Then the illegal came by the tens of thousands.
> Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are
> housing 5 families: you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency
> room doctor: you child's 2nd grade class is behind other schools because
> over half the class doesn't speak English: Corn Flakes now come in a
> bilingual box; I have to press "one" to hear my bank talk to me in
> English, and people waving flags other than "Old Glory" are squawking and
> screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.
>
> Maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder!!

[talaniman]

The bigger issue, the huge white elephant in the middle of the room, as I have heard it called, is not about just Mexicans but about border control, itself. If you can't focus on that, we don't have a conversation.

There is no border patrol. No such thing, so there goes the conversation. Call George and see what he says. Good Luck! :eek:

[Flummoxed]

You are absolutely incorrect when you claim they are not giving to the system. Your post simply reflects the fact that you have no basic understanding of economics. If a business spends millions in labor each year and sets some aside for profit and some aside to lower its prices, you, the middle class pontificator, are getting your lifestlye subsidized by below market labor. Also, if a business saves millions in labor costs and keeps it as profit, they are paying taxes at a CORPORATE tax rate, which is way higher than a poor person's indiviual tax rate. Your bottom line is that everything you buy is cheaper because of immigrants being all around the supply chain and your taxes are lower....

You hit the nail on the head. Not too long ago it was ILLEGAL for a black man to use the same restroom as a white man. Think of where we would be today if all we focused on then was how "illegal" it was for the black dude to use the white mans restroom. There are moral laws (don't kill, don't steal, etc) and then there are laws made by man just to put others down.

I am shocked at the number of "closet racists" who have crawled out of the woodwork trying to use the law as a platform for their hate mongering. How about we ask the native Americans about our legal status here? I say every illegal immigrant should ask the Native Americans if they can stay. If they (native Americans) agree to let them stay, I believe their presence here will be more justified than ours.

[talaniman]

To date the government hasn't asked them to go home, and left the front door open when they came. How can they be illegal when they where invited to the party, and the party just ain't over yet? Just ask George.