[tomder55]

“My view is now that we have abortion where everyone wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states will determine by vote or legislation, or perhaps both. And whatever they decide must be the law of the land. In this case, the law of the state,” (Trump on Truth Social)


He will take hits from both sides over this. But I tend to agree with him. Since Roe Repubs have argued that abortion should be decided at the state level. It took 50 years to get that done.

In our lifetime there will never be a national consensus. I think it is important to look at what has been accomplished. Now it is not a matter of if a human life is being killed . The argument over when abortions should be legal is a question of when a human can be killed. Even states with pro-life policies have it legal . Here in SC as an example the law now says it is legal at 6 weeks or less.

The question of when a fetus is a person with protected rights will not be settled in our lifetime. And it is an almost certainty that nationally there will never be anything close to a consensus . So IF a national law was passed ;it will be just like Roe where a good percentage of the nation will feel the law is unjust.

I would like to see no abortions except for in rare cases of health or viability .But that is not going to happen

You will read how Trump is betraying his base . But Trump taking a moderate position is a Dem nightmare. They can paint him ;right or wrong, as extreme on some other issues. But they were counting on him being the extremist on abortion who ended Roe. Well yeah . He is most responsible for ending Roe by tipping the balance at SCOTUS . But his position on abortion is hardly extremist and in my view a stroke of genius .

[jlisenbe]

Now it is not a matter of if a human life is being killed . The argument over when abortions should be legal is a question of when a human can be killed.

Or more to the point, when an innocent, defenseless human can be killed. If we are indeed now having such a conversation, then we should hang our heads low.

[tomder55]

Yeah I guess so but as much as we don't like having their values shoved down our throats ;they feel the same .... and as I pointed out in the past. We pay a political price for it.

If you need a comparison ;think Lincoln and his take on slavery. He personally believed slavery was abdominal. But he took moderate positions in attempts to build a national consensus .

I guess the difference is I have no real feel for Trump's position. He addressed the March for Life and fought hard to get prolife justices in SCOTUS. But I sense he only sees it in terms of politics. So taking a moderate stand is less of a contradiction for him.

Indirectly I think what happens is that his position saves a lot of babies IF he wins . If he takes a hard line and that helps swing the vote to Joe and the Dems maybe take Congress and are able to pass a national pro baby killing law ;what will that serve ?

[Wondergirl]

Men, keep you pants zipped up and abortion won't be much of a problem. Please don't lay all the responsibility for that fetus on the females!

What if God had created males to be pregnant?

[jlisenbe]

we don't like having their values shoved down our throats ;they feel the same .... and as I pointed out in the past. We pay a political price for it.

If we were talking about climate change or something else on that level, then I would see your point, but since we are talking about the most basic, cherished right one can imagine, then it becomes a different story. If we won't protect our children, then I think we are dead as a culture.

[tomder55]

well then say your post mortems. More than 80% of the population believes some form of abortion should be legal . As I mentioned even in the reddest states they are passing bans after 6 weeks. Trump in the past said 15 weeks

Do you plan on voting for him ? I bet you are because you see no better choice. From strictly a political perspective it is a losing topic to push for complete bans

[jlisenbe]

well then say your post mortems. More than 80% of the population believes some form of abortion should be legal . As I mentioned even in the reddest states they are passing bans after 6 weeks. Trump in the past said 15 weeks.

At some point, we have to move in the fear of God. I will not face Him without having stood up for the most vulnerable and innocent. If I refuse to do that, what will I say, that the economy was strong?

Do you plan on voting for him ? I bet you are because you see no better choice. From strictly a political perspective it is a losing topic to push for complete bans

I will cast my non-passionate, reluctant vote for Trump. I will send him money in the same manner because, in both cases, I have no other choice. But at times there must be something more important than political perspectives, and yet I do see your point.

[tomder55]

WG The fact that a majority of women support killing the unborn is a failure and great stain on the nation . Of that I completely agree with jl , My only concern is that an uncompromising political position is a losing one. GOP loses in Wisconsin and Kansas should tell them that .

[Wondergirl]

Where are the family counselors?

(And do we really need more people in the U.S. with all the migrants coming in?)

[jlisenbe]

The fact that a majority of women support killing the unborn is a failure and great stain on the nation .

So very true. Women used to be regarded as the great advocates for children, but no more.

[Wondergirl]

WG The fact that a majority of women support killing the unborn is a failure and great stain on the nation.

WHY do they support killing the unborn?

[jlisenbe]

WHY did so many Germans support killing the Jews?

[tomder55]

WHY do they support killing the unborn?

they see it as a form of contraception in most cases .

[tomder55]

Today Arizona's Supreme court said that a 160 year old law banning virtually all abortions in the state is enforceable. I predict this will cost the GOP the state.

Even Kari Lake ;a GOP candidate for the open Senate seat is opposed to the court's decision . I really don't know what she really thinks . She supported the law in the past . But political reality is that position will make her an instant loser .

The Senate is so close .That one seat could change the Senate one way or another . The abortion debate will continue well past our lifetimes. In the meantime the Dems can and have done terrible damage to the country in the last 4 years .

A ballot vote on abortion is expected in Arizona in November . It would protect abortions through the 24th week. This initiative will be used by the Dems to drive registration and turnout ,

Truth be told ;the Dems are rushing to add abortion initiatives to about half the states in time for November

[Wondergirl]

they see it as a form of contraception in most cases .

No birth control was used?

If they get born, they'll just shoot each other eventually with repub guns.

[tomder55]

or maybe they become the next Jesse Jackson who's mom was raped and pressured to abort ;but decided to birth him.

Or maybe they become the next Steve Jobs ;founder of Apple who's mother did not want him and almost aborted him. Instead he was given up to adoption.

Or maybe they become the next Oprah who's teenage mom was being encouraged to abort but decided to give birth to Oprah.

I could go on and on . Eartha Kitt became a successful singer after her mother who was raped decided to not abort .

Pope JPII's mom was advised not to have him after she had lost a daughter in child birth.

[jlisenbe]

In the great majority of cases it comes down to convenience. It is never convenient to have a child. They always require more in the way of money, time, effort, and commitment.

[jlisenbe]

WHY do they support killing the unborn?

I've been considering that question. It seems so odd to ask such a thing. What justification is there for killing another human being?

[Wondergirl]

I've been considering that question. It seems so odd to ask such a thing. What justification is there for killing for another human being?

I've been pregnant twice. By choice. Planned. My birth control system worked. And why did it?

[jlisenbe]

Unanswered question: What justification is there for killing another human being?