[jlisenbe]

Time for you to leave the science learning you got in the '70s and then handed out after that.

Translation = You don't have a clue, so you decide to become insulting. Why don't you try finding some support for the ridiculous idea that a person with female chromosomes will have male genitalia? Better yet, just be honest and admit you somehow got confused.

You can also become honest and point to the place in the article you linked where it states a person with female (XX) sex chromosomes will develop male genitalia. I will wait patiently...for a hundred years.

[jlisenbe]

Note. I'll save you the time. I've already searched it and it's not there. Try again...harder. Much, much harder. A LOT harder.

And you will really post THIS??!! "Please do honest research." Good grief. Pot calls kettle black!!

[Wondergirl]

Note. I'll save you the time. I've already searched it and it's not there. Try again...harder. Much, much harder. A LOT harder.

And you will really post THIS??!! "Please do honest research." Good grief. Pot calls kettle black!!

Ah, you are refusing to seek the truth. Okay. What documentation will you accept and maybe believe?

How about this as a beginning?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0205084203.htm

[jlisenbe]

I'm refusing to seek the truth? Between the two of us, I'm the only one who knew enough to search your article and discover (gasp!!) that it did not give one ounce of support for your insane idea that a person with XX chromosomes will develop male genitalia. Doesn't this kind of dishonesty become embarrassing to you at some point? It really should.

I will accept documentation that actually supports the POV you are advancing and not just chasing rabbits.

[jlisenbe]

The second link you posted also does not even mention chromosomes. Why am I not surprised?

Maybe I can help you. When you state an opinion that a person with female chromosomes (XX) will have male genitalia, then you really need to find an article that actually discusses CHROMOSOMES. Is that clear now?

And you really call yourself a retired librarian??? Wow.

[Wondergirl]

I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones, which involvement you have already spit on. Plus you spit on the very idea that chromosomes were involved.

And I've noticed you haven't hesitated to spit on me too. And I'm guessing you are one of the problem patrons we sigh about in the library break-room. I'm tempted to call your home library and ask if they have that reaction to you.

[jlisenbe]

So this really doesn't get embarrassing to you? "Oh look. I've linked two articles that say nothing at all concerning my absurd idea that people with XX chromosomes will have male genitalia. What? That's not satisfactory? Well, I never! You are spitting on me!"

I'd be embarrassed beyond description.

I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones

I'll be nice and just refer to this as an untruth since we have been talking about chromosomes for the past fifteen or so posts.

[Wondergirl]

So this really doesn't get embarrassing to you? "Oh look. I've linked two articles that say nothing at all concerning my absurd idea that people with XX chromosomes will have male genitalia. What? That's not satisfactory? Well, I never! You are spitting on me!"

Please pay attention. I'm responding to you regarding the first term mentioned, chromosomes.

If you can't pay attention and respond appropriately, this lesson will be postponed until after I have taken a few tranquilizers. Sure wish Athos was here, but I betcha he's watching. I do get occasional signals from him. (Ha ha!!! And about a half hour after I typed that, I got another very obvious Athos-signal!!!)

Oh, and btw, I'm a member of the LGBTQ+ community.

[jlisenbe]

So first you say, "I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones," but then you claim, '"Please pay attention. I'm responding to you regarding the first term mentioned, chromosomes." And you were doing that by linking to two articles that said nothing about chromosomes?

Have you always been this confused???

Why is your community membership important here?

[Wondergirl]

So first you say, "I was trying to keep it simple and begin with the involvement of hormones," but then you claim, '"Please pay attention. I'm responding to you regarding the first term mentioned, chromosomes." And you were doing that by linking to two articles that said nothing about chromosomes?

I had started out with a Wikipedia article about the transwoman. You ignored that and started tossing around chromosomes. As I had posted, I decided to begin by talking about the role of hormones and go from there. Well, that didn't work for you.

Have you always been this confused???

Um, I'm not the one confused.

Why is your community membership important here?

Just to intrigue you. And I'm very proud to be a member. It's definitely helped my husband and me in our long marriage.

[jlisenbe]

I had started out with a Wikipedia article about the transwoman. You ignored that and started tossing around chromosomes. As I had posted, I decided to begin by talking about the role of hormones and go from there. Well, that didn't work for you.

Sorry, but that's just complete garbage. I don't mean to be rude, but it gets old after a while. Learn to tell the truth. You started the conversation about chromosomes by posting, "Yes, that person is male-looking when "he" takes off his clothes, but hormones and chromosomes say female." I replied, "A completely absurd statement for which there is no support whatsoever, and which all of science plainly contradicts. It's a ridiculous idea to suggest that a person with male genitalia has female sex chromosomes." It was after that that you replied with two links, so try a little honesty. Good grief. Have you no shame?

Just to intrigue you

That group membership has long caused me to pray for you.

[Curlyben]

So, let me just pull together some pieces here.
While it is perfectly possible, and acceptable, to change your outwards appearance to the opposite sex/gender, it is currently not possible to change the base building blocks of DNA, chromosomes, that define sex and gender at a molecular level.
Also at what point is transition considered to be complete. I would suggest that until a full, surgical, reassignment is performed then the person is still in a transient state and should be consider their birth gender until that is complete.
Changing official documents, etc while still transitioning and intact, makes a complete mockery of the process for those people suffering from serious gender diaspora.
Does that about sum things up ?

And for Wondergirl especially, What is a Woman ?

[jlisenbe]

Does that about sum things up ?

All good comments.

[tomder55]

Either there is bioethics or there is not . If not than all types of cans of worms are open including eugenics,euthanasia ,cloning ,abortions and human genetic modifications .

A person's sex is determined by how the body develops. (with rare exceptions ).If someone believes they were not born into the right gender/sex then that is a mental problem that needs to be addressed . Interventions with surgery is enabling a deeper problem There is no self outside one's body. They are one and the same.

[jlisenbe]

Even more to the point, a person's sex is determined by his/her sex chromosomes and the resulting hormones the body produces in response to those chromosomal "instructions".

[Wondergirl]

Even more to the point, a person's sex is determined by his/her sex chromosomes and the resulting hormones the body produces in response to those chromosomal "instructions".

And for transgenders, those are not the "usual" ones. Plus, what the brain is saying to the individual is important too.

[jlisenbe]

And for transgenders, those are not the "usual" ones

From the perspective of chromosomes and hormones they are not different. What they are thinking is certainly different, but it doesn't make it reality.

[Curlyben]

Someone is avoiding the difficult questions, not that I'm surprised really.

And for Wondergirl especially, What is a Woman ?

[jlisenbe]

We wait...patiently.

[Wondergirl]

Someone is avoiding the difficult questions, not that I'm surprised really.

I have replied to various aspects of transgenderism but was told I'm wrong or don't know what I'm talking about or need a scientific explanation (btw, available by googling). Sooo, I gave up, ate lunch, and now am feasting on homemade Christmas cookies and coffee.

We wait...patiently.

Start with this:

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/transgender-facts/art-20266812