[waltero]

Christ did not absolutely abolish or condemn the use of the oath; His demand set the Christian ideal but did not rule out the possibility of an oath on certain occasions.

[jlisenbe]

You want to interpret scripture using the words that are at your disposal. Those same words have completely different meanings when it comes to the Bible and God.

Please give an example of this.

From what I gather, you are stuck on words (after all you are a teacher). The mere fact that you put it out there as an Oath, having a different meaning than Vows...and the like.

That's because a vow and an oath are different, kind of like a dog and a cat are different.

For me, I'd rather learn from the scriptures.

Oh? Then don't take oaths. Simple. It's clearly stated in two places. You must be careful lest you seem to prefer disobedience and attempts to rationalize such as, "Christ did not absolutely abolish or condemn the use of the oath; His demand set the Christian ideal but did not rule out the possibility of an oath on certain occasions." Believe that if you want, but you didn't learn it "from the scripture".

As well as your continual claim that you're not against babies being Baptized. Yet you are quick to bring up "Nowhere in the Bible are you going to find a baby being baptized." If you were speaking truthfully, then there is no reason at all for you to have brought this up

I have said repeatedly that my concern is people teaching that infant baptism results in the baby becoming a Christian. It would be nice if you understood that.

You will automatically go on defense, being that you think I'm slagging you...and you won't even understand a single word that I speak...You too, knowing words to be helpless.

Can't really respond to that since it makes no sense.

[waltero]

That's because a vow and an oath are different

Only in Word, Not in Deed (the act of performing).

Can't really respond to that since it makes no sense.

That's because you can't see. You are blind. Anybody who read my last response would not have asked for an example, because I've already posted them...you simply can't see them.

You quote Christ as saying Oath (you've defined Oath and that is what you are sticking with) when Jesus did not say Oath (oath as you know it). When he clearly said Oath, Vow, swear.

I'd rather learn from the scriptures.

Then don't take oaths. Simple.

NOW HEAR THIS: Learning the Law is not the same as learning from the Law.

Then don't take oaths. Simple

This (Simple) is legalism...learning the Law. Please try to learn from the Law. That means learning from the whole Bible. When I took an oath from God, It was exactly that...It came from God himself. I only found out it was from God a few months later, from when I first took it. I didn't give it, I took it. And here we have [you] telling me not to make oaths because that's what the Bible tells "YOU"...Again, who are you? So, if it is Words you want, I took an oath, while in your mind Jesus said not to make oaths. There you have it. Do you understand now?

It's like when somebody is telling another Christian his vision. If that Christian doesn't believe in Visions, then automatically all visions are false....not given by God. When the Scriptures are full of Visions, Vows/Oaths, and pointing out fools, etc.

It might be better if you stop issuing words to people. Maybe you might be better off just listening (learning) with a closed mouth. Who knows, you might see God's Word in action.

Have fun with just words on a forum. I have better things to do.

[jlisenbe]

Only in Word, Not in Deed (the act of performing).

Believe what you will. Oaths and vows are different.

Anybody who read my last response would not have asked for an example, because I've already posted them...yes you can't see them.

Because you haven't posted them.

This is legalism...learning the Law. Please try to learn from the Law. That means learning from the whole Bible. When I took an oath from God, It was exacly that...It came from God himself. I only found out it was from God a few months later, from when I first took it. I didn't give it, I took it. And here we have [you] telling me not to make oaths because that's what the Bible tells "YOU" says...Again, who are you? SO, if it is Words you want, I took an oath, while in your mind Jesus said not to make oaths. There you have it.
It's like when somebody is telling another Christian his vision. If you don't believe in Visions, then you automatically believe his Vision was false....not given to him my God.

As I said...rationalizing. I'm not telling you anything. I have simply quoted Jesus and James. You think God has commended you for doing what Jesus clearly and plainly said not to do. Well, you are free to make your own choices. You read the Bible and you decide for yourself, but don't point the finger at me. It is Jesus you are disagreeing with.

I tell you, don’t take an oath at all: either by heaven, because it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, because it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King. 36 Do not swear by your head, because you cannot make a single hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘yes’ mean ‘yes,’ and your ‘no’ mean ‘no.’ Anything more than this is from the evil one.

James. "Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “yes” mean “yes,” and your “no” mean “no,” so that you won’t fall under judgment."

I don't see a pathway out of such clear and frank statements. It does not add, "Unless you are Walter." You claim you do. Well, it's your head, so I'll leave you to your ways.

[waltero]

I don't see a pathway out of such clear and frank statements

No you don't, that much is apparent...Neither do the Jews. Maybe someday you will see such a path in Jesus. This will not happen until you give up the words with which "you" (it's all you) continue to speak.

[jlisenbe]

You mean these?

I tell you, don’t take an oath at all: either by heaven, because it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, because it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, because it is the city of the great King. 36 Do not swear by your head, because you cannot make a single hair white or black. 37 But let your ‘yes’ mean ‘yes,’ and your ‘no’ mean ‘no.’ Anything more than this is from the evil one.

James. "Above all, my brothers and sisters, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath. But let your “yes” mean “yes,” and your “no” mean “no,” so that you won’t fall under judgment."

Be careful lest you think you have a problem with what I've said when in reality your problem is with what Christ said. Jesus is not going to give you a pathway around His own words. All of your religious talk will not get you very far.

[waltero]

You mean these?

Yes I mean those. You continue to speak them as if you know them. As if you know them for all people, past present and future.

[jlisenbe]

Yes I mean those. You continue to speak them as if you know them. As if you know them for all people, past present and future.

Sadly, you don't even recognize the words of Jesus when you read them. And yes, they are for all people at all times, and that most certainly includes you and me.

[waltero]

You think God has commended you for doing what Jesus clearly and plainly said not to do.

Take this for instance. Why would you think that, unless your perspective is positioned on the Legal aspect of God's Commands?
This is Not at all what I said or thought. If you want to go back and read, you will see that God Commanded me to take his Oath. Surely I could have repented of taking such an Oath (which I did). So now what? Do I wait for Condemnation? Do I fulfill the oath that I took? would that make any difference in whether I suffer condemnation, or not? I tell you; Fulfilling the Vows (I have to relive them every day, trying not to take back that which I already gave to God) That I took Has Given me a much better understanding Of God's love for me. I would assume (according to your teaching) that any Christian who has ever given a vow to God should feel the need to repent, turning it into an easy out, not having to fulfill said vow...taking back what they have promised to give to God. The only thing you can do is repent and fulfill all Vows. It's also more than that. If the Vow you took is so ingrained in you (that you are constantly troubled by it), you should realize it is not up to you to fulfill said Vow, It is up to God to fulfill it in you. Come a point in time when you must ask God to fulfill "His" vow that He promises to fulfill in you.

[Wondergirl]

I have said repeatedly that my concern is people teaching that infant baptism results in the baby becoming a Christian.

Baptizing ANYONE of ANY age does not make them a Christian.

[jlisenbe]

you will see that God Commanded me to take his Oath

So Jesus first told all of us not to take oaths, but then God told you to take an oath? See a problem with that?

I would assume (according to your teaching)

It is not my teaching.

[jlisenbe]

Baptizing ANYONE of ANY age does not make them a Christian.

And so rather plainly, a person cannot claim to be born again at two weeks because of being baptized.

[waltero]

God said that Levites were to marry a Virgin only. Yet God told him to go lay with a prostitute. To Mary a prostitute.

[jlisenbe]

God said that Levites were to marry a Virgin only. Yet God told him to go lay with a prostitute. To Mary a prostitute.

1. Hosea was not a Levite. 2. He was not told to "lay with" Gomer. 3. You are not Hosea.

Enough of this. You claim that God told you to violate the command of Christ and take an oath, a choice which you later repented of. None of that makes any sense. I would suggest you simply admit your mistake and move on. Thankfully, God is full of mercy. He has been for me on many occasions, thank God. I know of no one who needs it more than me.

[Wondergirl]

And so rather plainly, a person cannot claim to be born again at two weeks because of being baptized.

At three weeks.... Or at any age?

[jlisenbe]

Correct.

[Wondergirl]

Correct.

Thus, Baptism does what?

[jlisenbe]

Read for yourself.

11 You were also circumcised in him with a circumcision not done with hands, by putting off the body of flesh, in the circumcision of Christ, 12 when you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 And when you were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive with him and forgave us all our trespasses. 14 He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it away by nailing it to the cross.

[Wondergirl]

No, in your own 2023 words.

[jlisenbe]

No. Read the Bible.

Just this is sufficient, especially for a well-read, intelligent librarian.

12 when you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.