[jlisenbe]

You do understand this goes both ways?

I certainly do. Have I objected to a claim by you that you are walking in accordance with God's word? You have already admitted that your taking of oaths was unwise. Is there something else you're referring to?

[Wondergirl]

WG, we are talking about oaths. You came up with a list that included vows and pledges, but they are not oaths. If I conveyed that idea crudely, then my apologies.

You have very narrow definitions limited by your understanding of and demand for using the Bible meaning. It's almost 2024. Times and definitions have changed - including how the word "oath" is defined and used now.

[jlisenbe]

You have claimed that before, WG. I asked you how that is true and have received no response. The Greek word for oath still means...oath. Look at the Matthew passage in context and tell me how modern oaths are different. Try going into a court of law, make false testimony, and then claim afterwards that the oath you took wasn't really serious. See how far you get.

[Wondergirl]

It's 2023!!!! Those words have broader meanings and uses now.

[waltero]

You claim Jesus said, while the Bible is explicitly clear what Jesus said...said in the heart of Scripture. That includes all of History.
There is nothing new under the Sun. You claim making vows is unbiblical. When you see throughout all of Scripture God initiating Oath taking. You claim - should not call anybody a fool. When all through the Scripture fools are being called fools.
You simply take it as The LAW! Everything is either biblical or unbiblical...what else are we to think? My life took an oath, and all you come up with - that is unbiblical. You have no idea how that (oath) has changed a life. You can only point out "We aren't supposed to take oaths." Paul called the Galatians fools, you say he called them foolish and stated, "it is not the same thing," When all along you know he called them fools. You're looking at the Scriptures as if it were a legal document.

[waltero]

It's 2023!!!! Those words have broader meanings and uses now.

This is what I'm talking about. It has nothing to do with WORDS!!! It has everything to do with the attitude of one's heart.
Words are out. There is no longer any such thing as Words. God wrote his Word on our Hearts. There are no other words. His Word will last forever. our made-up words are just that, made up. We continue to speak words as if they are truth and bring life. Every other word (outside of scripture) is nonsense. They have no real meaning because they are not real. they are constantly changing, developing new meanings. The New Testament is not a new discovery of God's testimony.

This is becoming redundant.

[Wondergirl]

This is what I'm talking about. It has nothing to do with WORDS!!! It has everything to do with the attitude of one's heart.

Awesome, waltero!

[jlisenbe]

Words are out. There is no longer any such thing as Words. God wrote his Word on our Hearts. There are no other words.

And that is your choice. You just want to make it up as you go along and ignore the Bible. You are welcome to it, but I'll not join you. I can assure you of one thing. God is not leading you down that path.

It has everything to do with the attitude of one's heart.

How do you know that's true? You can't appeal to the Bible since you have decided that there is no such thing as words, and that words no longer are what you're talking about, so how do you know it's true?

Awesome, waltero!

The woman who believes that Jonathan and David were homosexual lovers, and who "suggested" that Jesus and John were as well, thinks your post is awesome.

Leave them kids alone - Page 4 (askmehelpdesk.com)

Hillary Clinton Absolved of Wrongdoing Re Emails by State Dapertment - Page 22 (askmehelpdesk.com)

The cure for discrimination is...discrimination? - Page 2 (askmehelpdesk.com)

[Wondergirl]

The woman who believes that Jonathan and David were homosexual lovers, and who "suggested" that Jesus and John were as well, thinks your post is awesome.

Can you prove otherwise?

[jlisenbe]

Since you, the former librarian, have agreed that there is no longer any such thing as words, then I'm not sure how either of us can meaningfully comment on that subject. If I say the word written in my heart says they were not, will you accept that?

I just wonder how happy Walter is with your endorsement now. But since we are, in your views, no longer bound by mere written words, then do you believe you are both right, in your own minds, about whatever you think? After all, there are no more words other than those in the heart. Correct???

Walter, since WG believes that in her heart, then is she correct? And if you don't agree with her, what makes you think she's wrong? Remember, you can no longer appeal to the written word since you have said there is no longer any such thing as words.

[Wondergirl]

Since you, the former librarian, have agreed that there is no longer any such thing as words, then I'm not sure how either of us can meaningfully comment on that subject. If I say the word written in my heart says they were not, will you accept that?

I've "agreed that there is no longer any such thing as words"? Huh?

I just wonder how happy Walter is with your endorsement now. But since we are, in your views, no longer bound by mere written words, then do you believe you are both right, in your own minds, about whatever you think? After all, there are no more words. Correct???

I was remarking on waltero's well-written, concise, BRIEF reply.

[jlisenbe]

In Walter's "well-written, concise" reply, he stated, "There is no longer any such thing as Words." He went on to assert, "...our made-up words are just that, made up. We continue to speak words as if they are truth and bring life. Every other word (outside of scripture) is nonsense." So Walter, in that "awesome" reply, has rendered all of our words as "nonsense". If that is true, and you have fallen all over yourself to flatter him in his reply, then how are we to communicate???

Why do you continue to put yourself in these glaringly obvious traps?

[Wondergirl]

You apparently don't know how to encourage anyone.

Remember how convoluted his responses used to be? Now his responses are very readable and even understandable. I look forward to reading what he has to say.

[jlisenbe]

His words are, according to him, nonsense, as are yours and mine. Sorry, but I don't see the profit in encouraging that sort of..."nonsense". My goal is to encourage people to think about what they are saying. So often we say things that are completely self-defeating and even dangerous. My questions are designed to get people to begin to see that for themselves, and I certainly that others will do that for me.

So I would ask Walter this. How is it possible for us to communicate if our words are nothing but nonsense?

[waltero]

How is it possible for us to communicate if our words are nothing but nonsense?

By the holy spirit.

[jlisenbe]

Every other word (outside of scripture) is nonsense.

Words are out. There is no longer any such thing as Words.

So you've now decided these statements are not true? After all, what you just wrote is words, but words are out and no longer exist. Worse, what you just posted is not in the scripture, and thus is not really words.

Think, Walter. Think.

[waltero]

JL, Take this Country for example. We have Laws. We used to have Moral codes. When we have no more Morals we will lose all understanding of the Laws that have been put in place. Whether it is us (society) or God writing those laws, we will be lost. It's not about the Laws being written in your mind, It's all about God's Law being Placed on your HART. It is all about the Heart. I have often wondered why Christians get so involved in the Political realm because changing the Laws will do absolutely nothing...it won't change a thing. Change doesn't start from the Top down, It starts from the bottom up....people have to have a right heart. We know this because we are living it. There is no more understanding of the Law. We have a president who ignores and breaks the Law, we have everybody misinterpreting the Law, and we have the Courts redefining the law. Not only that, we have people making up words and you have to Go along otherwise you will suffer persecution.

So tell me, what is your Idea of a woman? Can you define what a woman is? I'm guessing in a few months (if not now) the definition of Woman will be redefined, and you'll be able to look it up in the Dictionary and see that a woman is not at all what you thought it was. I'm telling you words are out and you are telling me words are in. Yes, the words just keep coming in...new words, old words being made new.

[waltero]

I just watched a movie called "After Death." It is about people who die and come back.
It was interesting. all of the ones they interviewed said the same thing. Said that once they were brought up to the light of love they didn't want to come back. They talked about wonderful music being heard. and they talked about how they didn't have a care in the world. Some said that it was as if this (here on earth) was a dream and where they were at was ultimate reality. They also mentioned "that we use Human words to explain how things are, there are no [human] words to describe what they have seen or where they have been.

It became a reality for them. It needs to become a reality for all Christians.

We need to speak to others with our heart (love).

[jlisenbe]

I'm telling you words are out and you are telling me words are in.

Words must still be in for you. You continue using them.

If you are trying to say that the heart is the most important realm in human existence, then I'm with you on that, but when you use words to say that "words are out", it's just muddled thinking. And if you are trying to say that the Bible is no longer important, and that the words of the Bible are no longer important, then you have completely lost your foundation. You really need to think that through a great deal more carefully.

Perhaps this is what you are trying to say.

16 I never stop giving thanks for you as I remember you in my prayers. 17 I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, would give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened so that you may know what is the hope of his calling, what is the wealth of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the mighty working of his strength.

[waltero]

I'm saying that it is not the Words in and of themselves that are important.
It's easy to learn the meaning of words. All we need to do is search and look them up. Words coming from the mouth of God (Bible) have many different meanings...different understandings. Just look at the many different translations. There might come a time when the Bible will be outlawed. Then what will we have? You want to interpret scripture using the words that are at your disposal. Those same words have completely different meanings when it comes to the Bible and God.

We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God.

Do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say. To think Christianly or to think biblically is not simply to think Christian thoughts or to think biblical thoughts, but it’s to think all of our thoughts from a Christian and biblical perspective.

From what I gather, you are stuck on words (after all you are a teacher). The mere fact that you put it out there as an Oath, having a different meaning than Vows...and the like. Taking a similar position; "calling somebody foolish is not the same as calling them a fool." You are welcome to look it up in the dictionary. For me, I'd rather learn from the scriptures.

For instance; You foolish Galatians. Oh, foolish Galatians. You stupid Galatians. Oh stupid Galatians. O senseless Galatians. All these come from the same Bible, different translations. Jesus states that calling someone a fool is grounds for judgment. Note; Both, Jesus and Paul occasionally called people fools.

Then we have: But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all. But I say, do not make any vows! But I tell you not to swear at all. All come from the Same Word (Scripture). Then we see (not to be heard but seen) St. Paul... Paul often employed oath formulas in order to testify to the truth of his assertions (Rom 1.9; 9.1; 2 Cor 1.23; 11.31; Gal 1.20).

As well as your continual claim that you're not against babies being Baptized. Yet you are quick to bring up "Nowhere in the Bible are you going to find a baby being baptized." If you were speaking truthfully, then there is no reason at all for you to have brought this up. You unwittingly fell right into WG's hand.

I also know something about you that you might not realize. You will automatically go on defense, being that you think I'm slagging you...and you won't even understand a single word that I speak...You too, knowing words to be helpless.