[Wondergirl]

We each have been taught different truths. That's why I asked if you are a Pentecostal. Or maybe Assemblies of God. They don't believe in infant baptism.

[tomder55]

oh oh oh I know that one Mr Kotter John 18:38

[Wondergirl]

oh oh oh I know that one Mr Kotter John 18:38

Excellent, tomder!!!

Wikipedia says it well: "Christians who baptize infants believe that baptism has replaced Old Testament circumcision and is the religious ceremony of initiation into the Christian community."

and

"Since the creation of faith is exclusively God's work, it does not depend on the actions of the one baptized, whether infant or adult."

[jlisenbe]

There is no such thing as different truths.

Appealing to wiki is not an appeal to the Bible.

[tomder55]

Does anyone really care when children get baptized ? I say any age is a good age . Hope I don't go to hell for that reply.

[jlisenbe]

I don’t care if they baptize an infant as long as they don’t try to connect it with Christian conversion.

[Wondergirl]

I don’t care if they baptize an infant as long as they don’t try to connect it with Christian conversion.

Not conversion!!!!

[jlisenbe]

You claimed you were born again (converted??) at the age of three days because of a baptismal ceremony. Are you flip-flopping now? Perhaps you have a different view of conversion than I do?

Perhaps I should have written, "I don’t care if they baptize an infant as long as they don’t try to connect it with actually becoming a Christian. "

[waltero]

Lord what fools these mortals be

Simply amazing isn't it? I think this has more to do with neither of them believing the Bible as (And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us) the living Word of God. This is what happens to those who can not see the Word. They are simply hearing the Living Word, not seeing. When Jesus said; "And you do what you have heard from your father.” This is what we do when we only hear...those who simply go on "hearing the Word".

"The Word is to be seen not heard."

This has to do more with Seeing the Word as opposed to hearing the Word. I'm confident that JL & WG will someday know the Scriptures as a Living Word. The Devil is able to quote the Scriptures better than anyone... So we should go on preaching that which we have simply heard...such as the love of God??

and you do what you have heard

there is no knowledge of things insofar as they are external in effect.

"I speak of what I have seen with my Father"

but insofar as their nature and quiddity is grasped by the mind.

"The Word is to be seen not heard."

You must believe the Scripture is the living Word of God, otherwise, you will never be able to live according to his Word.

[Wondergirl]

You must believe the Scripture is the living Word of God, otherwise, you will never be able to live according to his Word.

I do live according to His Word.

Be careful! Matt. 7:1.

You claimed you were born again (converted??) at the age of three days because of a baptismal ceremony. Are you flip-flopping now? Perhaps you have a different view of conversion than I do?

Perhaps I should have written, "I don’t care if they baptize an infant as long as they don’t try to connect it with actually becoming a Christian. "

Of course not!! Not conversion! It is the beginning for that child, with adults promising to teach that child about God and His love for us.

[waltero]

I do live according to His Word.

Yes, and so did the Pharisees.

I do live according to His Word.

This is equivalent to saying that you live by the Law (according to the law). Maybe you heard about the love of God, developing your own understanding, without experiencing the love of God (similarily being Baptized as a baby)?

Come on WG, Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. If you live according to his Word then you know his Word as the living Word! Otherwise, your life is no life at all.

[Wondergirl]

Come on WG, Don't pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. If you live according to his Word then you know his Word as the living Word! Otherwise, your life is no life at all.

I know His Word as the Living Word and joyfully live according to it.

Did you ever watch the youtube Christian movie, "The Encounter"? It's my most favoritest movie of all time!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bj-PekUGBnA

[jlisenbe]

Of course not!! Not conversion! It is the beginning for that child, with adults promising to teach that child about God and His love for us.

So you consider being born again to be different from conversion? How can a person be born again and yet be unconverted?

Sorry, Walter, but you have lost your credibility here. Your multiple accounts of demonstrating that you are perfectly willing to treat the Bible carelessly have done you in, and that's not to mention several instances of, shall we say, making claims that clearly were not true.

[tomder55]

For my 2 cents on the subject of baptism . I'll go by what I was taught in Catechism . It is essential for a person to be baptized to obtain salvation. That means as harsh as it sounds ;a child not baptized does not obtain salvation and that is true by voluntary or involuntary omission.
John 3 5-8
Jesus answered, Believe me, no man can enter into the kingdom of God unless birth comes to him from water, and from the Holy Spirit. What is born by natural birth is a thing of nature, what is born by spiritual birth is a thing of spirit. Do not be surprised, then, at my telling thee, You must be born anew.


My child was baptized as soon as she could be

And that is my total contribution to the discussion.

[jlisenbe]

It is essential for a person to be baptized to obtain salvation.

While the thief on the cross disproves that, it is still a point well taken. However, the NT pattern is that a person first believes, and then is baptized. Baptism outside of faith is not a scriptural pattern for salvation. Acts 16. 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 And they spoke the word of [n]the Lord to him together with all who were in his house. 33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

That means as harsh as it sounds ;a child not baptized does not obtain salvation and that is true by voluntary or involuntary omission.
John 3 5-8
Jesus answered, Believe me, no man can enter into the kingdom of God unless birth comes to him from water, and from the Holy Spirit. What is born by natural birth is a thing of nature, what is born by spiritual birth is a thing of spirit. Do not be surprised, then, at my telling thee, You must be born anew.

You are making an assumption that the water spoken of by Christ is the water of baptism. It is also possible to view it as the water of natural childbirth, a view which makes sense considering the the final five words of the passage. It could read, "Just as you were born naturally, you must be re-born supernaturally."

At any rate, there is no support there for the idea that infant baptism amounts to a person becoming a Christian, and that is my primary concern. The entire weight of the NT supports the concept that a person must make a decision to follow Christ. There is no recording of an infant baptism at all.

[tomder55]

Like I said . This is the Catholic teachings I did not make them up .

[waltero]

I know His Word as the Living Word and joyfully live according to it.

Just the other day you said it wasn't the living Word. You were in agreement with JL - "The Scriptures aren't alive." "How can words on a page be alive." "is the Door alive."

If the Bible is not the living Word then what is (JL's word)?

None of us sees any piece of reality from every perspective (as God does), and what we do see, we frequently misappropriate. So we benefit incalculably to know well the perspectives of others and run them through our developing grid of Bible-informed and Spirit-indwelt thinking, loving, and doing.

Because we are not God, because we are finite, we cannot know everything at a glance, and therefore our knowledge is limited to one perspective or another. We are finite, and our knowledge is finite. I can only know the world from the limited perspective of my own body and mind.

The effect of this finitude, and even more of sin, should caution us against cocksureness in our claims to knowlege. I am not saying that we should doubt everything.

[Wondergirl]

Acts 16. 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

"Household"" includes babies and children.

[waltero]

So, Baptize your Baby. So, you were Baptized as a baby! Who cares?
What difference does it make...to others???

Well, I drink my Beer with a lime.

[jlisenbe]

Acts 16. 31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

"Household"" includes babies and children.

It included those capable of believing. That did not include infants.

What difference does it make...to others???

Eternity.