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dwashbur · Jun 11, 2023, 11:45 AM

It's the prednisode talking instead of the real me.

I have no room to talk about that. A week after I finally tested negative I still have the massive covid brain fog.

waltero · Jun 11, 2023, 05:24 PM

Why do I Trust the Bible

Because I trust God.

God speaks, children hear, and men act on what they hear. Those who have become witnesses to [the] living of the word wrote it down. Jesus was the living Word. God came down and tried to explain the Scriptures, but nobody understood what on earth he was talking about. Only when the Holy Spirit came did they understand? They didn't understand according to the Scriptures, they understood through the life that he walked, talked, lived, and died. The disciples were witnesses to the life that is in the Scriptures. You can read the Bible all you want, but only until you give yourself over to the truth of the written word (aka Bible) can you be witness to it.

I came to an understanding (long ago) that I had to place all my trust and faith in believing that God preserved the scriptures of the OT, to be accurate and true. True enough so that the Son of man had been Crucified. I find myself having to trust that God is able to keep NT intact (just like the Body of Christ), for me to become a witness to the word that gives life.

Nobody could bear to hear God's voice. That's why they asked if God could talk to Moses and have Moses relay it to the rest of the people. Don't believe in whoever might be relaying the message to you. It's no longer about simply hearing the word of God, it's about being a witness to the truth of the Bible. We have a written account of Jesus's life. Jesus lived the life. we don't have to live the life, he has already done it. We aren't even able to live that life. We need only be witnesses to his life, which is to know and operate in truth (@WG) - and love.

jlisenbe · Jun 12, 2023, 04:41 AM

Why do I Trust the Bible

Because I trust God.

Circular reasoning, is it not?

"Why do I trust the Bible?" "Because I trust God."

"How do I know about God?" "I discover God in the Bible which I trust."

"But how can I know I should trust the Bible?" "By trusting in the God I read about in the Bible."

And on and on it would go.

waltero · Jun 12, 2023, 11:44 AM

There came a point in my life where I didn't want to engage in argument over the authenticity of the Scriptures.
Having to trust that God's word is alive and well.

Circular reasoning, is it not?

certainly is.

How do I know about God?

Isreal, The Ten Commandments, The life, the death, the resurrection. More importantly; his word (Jesus) now lives in me.

"But how can I know I should trust the Bible?"

"By trusting in the life that is lived within God's, commands - that I have read in the Bible." Worked for Jesus?

Why would you not trust in something that engulfs your entire life? You read it, you eat it, you speak it, and you live and breathe the word of God. The word of God has not only been spoken from the lips of man. His words have been written down. It is in writing, a legal document as it were.

How was Adam to know who this God was? If only Adam had trusted in the word of God.

Wondergirl · Jun 12, 2023, 12:04 PM

What about unconditional love? Jesus loved, and still loves, us so we can love each other.

We love because He first loved us. 1 John 4:19

jlisenbe · Jun 12, 2023, 12:13 PM

Walter, you are still using the approach that you know the Bible is trustworthy because the God you read about in the trustworthy Bible is...trustworthy. Now that works for you and me as Christians, but for the unconverted it would generally be unconvincing. Happily, the textual and historical evidence for the accuracy of the Bible is really good.

waltero · Jun 13, 2023, 11:01 AM

And that is usually the case. I have a hard enough time convincing myself (mind) to give itself over to my heart. Knowing what to be true and allowing truth to guide me into that life...that life is to be lived out through the Scriptures.

It is one thing to believe. It is another thing to live. We don't live to believe. We die believing.
Where there is no more "we", there is only life...life comes from the being, in the Word of God.

jlisenbe · Jun 13, 2023, 03:04 PM

I have a hard enough time convincing myself (mind) to give itself over to my heart. Knowing what to be true and allowing truth to guide me into that life...that life is to be lived out through the Scriptures.

I certainly understand what you are saying. Believing can be difficult at times. It's one reason, and I suppose the main one, that I dearly love the study of apologetics. It helps me a lot with my faith to see that the evidence for the reliability of the text of the Bible is so good.

dwashbur · Jun 14, 2023, 08:41 AM

I certainly understand what you are saying. Believing can be difficult at times. It's one reason, and I suppose the main one, that I dearly love the study of apologetics. It helps me a lot with my faith to see that the evidence for the reliability of the text of the Bible is so good.

Apologetics saved my faith. There was a point in my 30's where I was on the verge of chucking it all. I had come to the conclusion that God wasn't YHWH, he was Zeus, with his capricious lightning bolts and all the rest. It was one of the deepest holes I've ever been in. Gary Habermas' defenses of Jesus' resurrection kept me hanging on. I couldn't get around it: it happened. And the implications of it are enormous to the point of being even more immeasurable than the universe. That kept me hanging on and ultimately brought me through the dark period. Thanks to apologetics, not about the Bible etc. but about Jesus being alive, I came out infinitely stronger on the other side. I can now say truthfully that it's a settled issue with me: Jesus lives and I live in Him.

waltero · Jun 14, 2023, 09:22 AM

What about unconditional love?

That's all you. Same with Trinity; It's all you.
We don't find it in the Scriptures. The point is; You are doing the same thing that you claim others have done when writing (Interpreting) the Bible. The Church did not write the Bible.

At this point, I don't feel the need to carry on with you in this conversation. (Why)? I feel I have discredited your human equation...you Can't let go. You're too deep in this unconditional lovey-dovey thing.

jlisenbe · Jun 14, 2023, 09:37 AM

Well said DW. The evidence for the resurrection is substantial.

Wondergirl · Jun 14, 2023, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by waltero

You're too deep in this unconditional lovey-dovey thing.

That was the entire reason God sent His Son to die for us and rise again.

jlisenbe · Jun 14, 2023, 08:19 PM

I can agree that God's love is unconditional, but we must be reminded that His holiness is as great as His love. It is only in the acceptance of the cross that the two can be resolved.

waltero · Jun 15, 2023, 12:00 PM

I would agree as well. Just as I'm able to agree with the doctrine of the Trinity.

When it comes to GOD Commanding, man always has something to add. Why do you think that is?
If you read, in Genesis, the very first command God gave to man - man added to said command of God. Was that a good thing? was it bad? It might even seem harmless.

That was the entire reason God sent His Son to die for us and rise again.

It appears your entire understanding of God has to do with this unconditional love of God thing. God is love, therefore I believe in unconditional love, and I will unconditionally love others the same as I know God's love - as being unconditional, right?

Wondergirl · Jun 15, 2023, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by waltero

It appears your entire understanding of God has to do with this unconditional love of God thing. God is love, therefore I believe in unconditional love, and I will unconditionally love others the same as I know God's love - as being unconditional, right?

You disagree?

(P.S. not my ENTIRE understanding of God)

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2023, 03:51 PM

The problem I have seen in the past with WG's understanding of unconditional love is that it seems to equate to unconditional acceptance.

Wondergirl · Jun 15, 2023, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

The problem I have seen in the past with WG's understanding of unconditional love is that it seems to equate to unconditional acceptance.

Please explain.

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2023, 04:06 PM

Love = doing what is in the best interest of someone else.

Acceptance = approving of what another person does.

Wondergirl · Jun 15, 2023, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Acceptance = approving of what another person does.

How did "acceptance of what a another person does" get into this???

I accept the person but not necessarily the action taken. That's why I interact with that person, to find out the action.

jlisenbe · Jun 15, 2023, 04:16 PM

We're not talking about what you do. We are talking about God and your view of God's love. God, for instance, does not "accept the person" as they are.