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jlisenbe · Aug 18, 2023, 02:17 PM

I think you meant post 44 where you posted this. "You read it, you eat it, you speak it, and you live and breathe the word of God. The word of God has not only been spoken from the lips of man. His words have been written down. It is in writing, a legal document as it were."

I think that's a good comment. I guess I just don't know why you think I would not agree with it.

waltero · Aug 19, 2023, 12:25 AM

I had mentioned that I made a continuous decision to trust that the Bible is it. To the point that It makes no sense, sounds so ridiculous. There is no more that need be said. I don't need to explain...there is no explanation. Just as there is no explanation for why God loves you. There is no explanation why I believe the Bible to be accurate and true. I simply made a conscious decision to believe. Listening to you guys argue and fight and discuss whether the bible is a proper and accurate translation of the living God made me realize that I, here and Now (back when) had to make a conscious decision to trust that God is capable of keeping "His" world whole. So at that time, such as now, I believe. I know for a fact that the Bible is the accurate transition...why would I want to think any other way? why would I think God would speak and have his word in writing and then throw a monkey wrench in?

jlisenbe · Aug 19, 2023, 05:06 AM

And that's fine. It is sufficient for you. There are many others who, before they trust their lives to the text of a book, want to be do some checking first. In my case, I trusted the Bible from my childhood, but it has been reassuring and a great joy to discover that the text of the Bible is very reliable from the perspective of history (look back at the post concerning Peter preaching to Cornelius) and has been faithfully transmitted and preserved over the many centuries. It has enriched my confidence and gives me even more solid reasons to preach the Bible and to recommend the teachings of the Bible to others.

I might add that I don't recall anyone here suggesting that your view you stated above, "makes no sense, sounds so ridiculous." I know I haven't, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

waltero · Aug 19, 2023, 02:27 PM

If you read the conversation starting at post #46 you might better understand what it is I talking about.

Walter, you are still using the approach that you know the Bible is trustworthy because the God you read about in the trustworthy Bible is...trustworthy. Now that works for you and me as Christians, but for the unconverted, it would generally be unconvincing.

It's not about trying to convince the unconverted.

This is similar to the response I get when I use to tell people (mainly Christians); I am not required to do anything, all I am required to do is believe in the Name of Jesus. that statement always got a response yah, but, but, but its not that easy...my retort was; that's what I read, that's the way I read it, and that's what I believe...just believing in his name is all I am required to do.
That never went well, I suppose cuz it sounds too easy...this has never been enough for Christians...while it's all I ever needed.

Post #49

threw me for a loop. it was not at all what I was talking about. and that is what I meant when I said "We have become too familiar with the Bible."

I said; once I made a conscious decision on trusting the Bible unconditionally, I never ever have any doubts. no confusion, no debate, no convincing. Once I made a conscious decision, to believe in the name of Jesus, I was Golden.

jlisenbe · Aug 19, 2023, 06:47 PM

..my retort was; that's what I read, that's the way I read it, and that's what I believe...just believing in his name is all I am required to do.

Can you be specific as to where you read that?

It's not about trying to convince the unconverted.

Perhaps it isn't for you, but I assure you it very much is for me. It was for Peter as well. "But sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you."

Perhaps I mistook your meaning.

waltero · Aug 19, 2023, 10:56 PM

I don't think you understand. It has nothing to do with you. nothing to do with "your" convincing anybody of anything.

jlisenbe · Aug 20, 2023, 05:12 AM

Can you be specific as to where you read that?

I guess not. Perhaps that's why your statements are unconvincing?

nothing to do with "your" convincing anybody of anything.

It is, of course, the Holy Spirit who does the convincing, but to think that I can therefore be lazy and empty in my thinking and knowledge is far from the truth. Read Peter's sermon in Acts 2, or the first several chapters of Romans, and see how God used men who were well-prepared to be used. Uninformed, strictly personal comments won't be effective.

Sometimes it seems you are unmoved by scripture, but I keep trying regardless.

Ezra 7:10. For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to practice it.
2 Timothy 2:15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

waltero · Sep 13, 2023, 03:50 PM

your statements are unconvincing?

That's good enough for me.

jlisenbe · Sep 14, 2023, 09:01 AM

That's good enough for me.

So for your ideas to be foundationless and thus unconvincing is good enough? Well, so be it. But I can't believe that's really how you look at this.

waltero · Sep 14, 2023, 01:25 PM

((I am convinced)) The fact that you continue to exclaim; "not very convincing." Shows that you are still trying to convince yourself.
As I mentioned earlier. I am not about convincing anybody...and here you are, telling me it's not very convincing?

Believing the Bible (as it is today) is the living Word, will take faith...you can't convince a person into believing. Example: how many years have you and WG been going at this? It would be like; trying to convince somebody that a Rock can speak.

“I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.” Luke 19:37-40. Are you convinced, now that rocks speak?

jlisenbe · Sep 14, 2023, 03:41 PM

Believing the Bible (as it is today) is the living Word, will take faith...you can't convince a person into believing. Example: how many years have you and WG been going at this? It would be like; trying to convince somebody that a Rock can speak.

You don't even believe that yourself. If you did, you would not spend so much time here trying to convince us that your ideas are correct. If you really believed that, you would never discuss religion with anyone since, after all, "you can't convince a person into believing." So why do you carry on these discussions???

Your text does not say that rocks speak.

waltero · Sep 14, 2023, 07:01 PM

Yes, I spend so much time here, trying to convince you. I'm simply quoting Scripture as it means to me. You are wanting to be convinced. Similar to when the Jews asked for a sign...then they would believe.

What gets me is when the two of you go off on some cockamamy discussions about God married Mary, Adom was non-binary.

Your text does not say that rocks speak

My text doesn't have to. It's straight out of the Bible. It's right there in the Book!

jlisenbe · Sep 14, 2023, 08:05 PM

Yes, I spend so much time here, trying to convince you.

But you just said you can't convince a person into believing, so why are you trying to do the very thing you claim can't be done?

"As I mentioned earlier. I am not about convincing anybody."
"...you can't convince a person into believing."

I'm simply quoting Scripture as it means to me.

The primary issue is what the scripture means, and not simply what you might think it means.

My text doesn't have to. It's straight out of the Bible. It's right there in the Book!

So you think you can apply any meaning you want to any scripture?

discussions about God married Mary, Adom was non-binary.

No one here has ever claimed either of those to be the case, so I have no idea where you got that from.