[tomder55]

Men can lift more weight than women can. I think that is indisputable .

So now we have a Minnesota judge ruling that transformer men who identify as women can now compete in woman's weightlifting .


JayCee Cooper Wins Discrimination Lawsuit Against USA Powerlifting | BarBend

Women's sports is dead in this country . So much for Title 9 's protections of women's athletics,

[Wondergirl]

What do you think transitioning is? Just someone shouting on a street corner, "I'm the wrong gender!!!"?

Please read up on MtoF transgenders taking estrogen and progesterone for years. And what happens with their testosterone.

[tomder55]

Don't need to . All I need to know is that men competing in woman's sports gives them an unfair competitive advantage . The equal opportunity that Title 9 was supposed to address is gone ,

[Wondergirl]

They are no longer men.

[jlisenbe]

And thus we enter into fairytale land.

[Wondergirl]

Then you have two years of estrogen and progesterone shot into you and get tested when that's finished.

[jlisenbe]

And as a result, you are a man who has had two years of estrogen and progesterone "shot into you". It's just all part of the current, anti-God silliness. "God says He created them male and female? Well, we'll see about that!!"

[Wondergirl]

And as a result, you are a man who has had two years of estrogen and progesterone "shot into you".

And your testosterone level is very low.

No, Mother Nature messed up, changed the sexual ID of those fetuses before they were born. Estrogen from mommy and perhaps from physicians' injections.

[jlisenbe]

1, Maybe.
2. There is no evidence whatsoever for that. Oops. I keep forgetting that you make decisions with no regard for evidence. It's just the same contention you have failed to demonstrate a number of times before. If this goes as it has in the past, you will find a website or two filled with "maybes" and "possibles" and pointing to occurrences in the womb that have nothing demonstrable to do with people suffering from gender dysphoria. There is no connection at all.

[Wondergirl]

Sorry to dash your particular truths. I have several friends who were DES babies, went through years of depression, and have finally achieved peace and happiness after transitioning that demanded much medical testing and gender therapy and counseling.

[jlisenbe]

1, Correlation vs. causation. Learn to tell the difference.
2. DES hasn't been used since 71, so anyone under fifty or so cannot appeal to that.
3. The link between DES and gender dysphoria is remarkably weak. " The first real study on transgender identity in people assigned male at birth who were prenatally exposed to DES was published in 2020 and found a very low incidence of transgenderism (2 in about 930 or around 0.2%).^[29] It wasn't possible to determine whether the incidence was higher than in controls due to the small number of cases, but the findings did indicate in any case that the influence of prenatal DES exposure on likelihood of being transgender would be only small at most."
4. So for every two people you know who claim to be transgender due to DES, you would have to know 500 who were exposed to DES and are NOT transgender. Ask me if I believe that's true.
5. I keep forgetting. Documentation seems to be strictly optional in your world.

Birth defects of diethylstilbestrol - Wikipedia

[Wondergirl]

My three transgender friends were born during the DES decades, 1930s - 1970s and know from their moms' stories that DES had been used to prevent miscarriage.

[jlisenbe]

And now you know from the research that the likelihood of DES causing their situation is fantastically small and possibly non-existent. But even at that, it is not an influence at all now and has not been for several decades, so the search for a suitable excuse continues as DES has been ruled out.

[Wondergirl]

I've heard them speak about that, when they became aware of themselves around the age of 4, despite having the bodies of little boys, in their hearts, souls, and brains they were girls. It all fit together years later when their moms told them they (the moms) had gotten DES injections to prevent any more miscarriages.

I know real-life transgenders. Do you? And I've gotten very similar stories from them (and they don't know each other).

Apparently, JL, we'll find out the Truth of transgenderism when we're in Heaven.

[jlisenbe]

I understand your anecdotal experiences, but we were talking about any real science to support your contention that DES caused transgenderism. With the possible exception of a disappearingly small number of cases, it did not. That's the point. And if you have really talked with TG people whose mothers took DES, then you should realize that you could talk with many hundreds and hundreds of others whose mothers took DES and did NOT become transgender. So I just think you have basically nothing of any real substance.

Your search must continue.

[tomder55]

Transformer lifter Laurel Hubbard competed in the Olympics denying a real woman a slot on the New Zealand team . He/She/It competed as a male previously up to the age of 30 . He never made the Olympics as a man . But competed as a "woman" since He is full of She/It He did squat as a man but took home a gold metal in the 2019 Pacific games as a ahem woman .

The IOC guidelines says that a transformer who's testosterone levels are below 10 nanomoles per litre for at least 12 months is eligible to compete as a woman . But that does nothing to change the fact that He/She/It was born a male and as a result has the muscle ,bone and body density he has had since puberty .

I don't know about others . In Hubbard's case becoming a transformer was a choice . He was not born that way

[Wondergirl]

DES. Transgenderism depends on how many weeks or months of DES shots were given.

The E = estrogen. 'Nuff said.

How about giving estrogen pills a try for six months, then please report back to us.

[jlisenbe]

DES. Transgenderism depends on how many weeks or months of DES shots were given.

Will you please stop with the lie. That has already been shown to be ridiculous nonsense, and especially so for anyone under fifty. Every time you bring it up now is proof that you have no regard at all for the truth. It's ridiculous.

Even worse, the "E" does not stand for estrogen. DES is short for Diethylstilbestrol. The molecule itself is a type of estrogen, but the "E" has nothing to do with that.

So indeed, it is "nuff said".

[Wondergirl]

Will you please stop with the lie. That has already been shown to be ridiculous nonsense, and especially so for anyone under fifty. Every time you bring it up now is proof that you have no regard at all for the truth. It's ridiculous.

They are all well over 50. I'd put on my librarian hat and post valid references, but you'd spit on them. Do some honest research, please.

Even worse, the "E" does not stand for estrogen. DES is short for Diethylstilbestrol. The molecule itself is a type of estrogen, but the "E" has nothing to do with that.

I was trying to keep it simple for your masculine brain. DES -- A synthetic form of the hormone estrogen that was prescribed to pregnant women between about 1940 and 1971 because it was thought to prevent miscarriages.

[jlisenbe]

The person Tom was talking about was hardly over fifty, or even over forty for that matter.

I was trying to keep it simple for your masculine brain.

Yeah. It couldn't possibly be that you didn't know what you were talking about. But even at that, as has been shown to you, the connection between DES and transgender individuals is so slight as to be nothing. Your grasping at this straw needs to come to an end. It's just foolishness.