[tomder55]

[Wondergirl]

likely ? again rumor and innuendo without any proof.

She was a "house slave." Jefferson was the master and the only male in the house. Think about that. How did she get pregnant six times?

Wikipedia states: Multiple lines of evidence, including modern DNA analyses, indicate that Jefferson impregnated Hemings over the span of many years, and historians now broadly agree that he was the father of her six children.^[2]
[2] Stockman, Farah (June 16, 2018). "Monticello Is Done Avoiding Jefferson's Relationship With Sally Hemings". The New York Times. Retrieved July 15,2018.

[jlisenbe]

How did she get pregnant six times?

That it is possible is definite. That it is definite is highly questionable. But one way or the other, it seems unlikely she was raped, and just because she got pregnant six times means nothing. Did he impregnate all of the other slave women who became pregnant as well?

I think we can all agree that slavery is terrible. Still, Bill Clinton was a repeated womanizer, but no one seems to think it necessary to mention it at every possible moment. Perhaps it would be good to have a balanced approach.

[Wondergirl]

She was half-sister to Jefferson's wife and approximately three-quarters white.

[tomder55]

The author of the Nature Magazine's 1988 study on Jefferson's possible paternity was pathologist Eugene Foster . He admitted that other Jefferson family members could've been father . Jefferson's son Randolf and uncles were known to have had relations with slaves .

Asked why they didn't mention Randolph or his sons in their previous article, also published in Nature, Foster says it was because they weren't suspects. For years, members of the Jefferson family had claimed that sons of Thomas Jefferson's sister--Peter or Samuel Carr--had most likely fathered Hemings's children. The DNA study aimed to settle that question, Foster says. He agrees that the Nature headlines on the initial report and on an accompanying comment by geneticist Eric Lander of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and historian Joseph Ellis of Mount Holyoke College in South Hadley were "misleading," but both articles were hurried into print, he says, to beat the popular media, which had learned about their results and were poised to publish.Thomas Jefferson Off the Hook? | Science | AAAS

I take nothing out of Monticello as serious. They have sold out Jefferson's legacy to the woke mob.

[Athos]

I take nothing out of Monticello as serious. They have sold out Jefferson's legacy to the woke mob.

The Thomas Jefferson Foundation states that the evidence for Jefferson fathering Sally Hemmings' children is conclusive.

Read why here:
https://www.monticello.org/thomas-je...sally-hemings/

Naturally, like all good Republicans when faced with testimony against whatever it is they're proposing, they simply denounce it as a pack of lies.

[jlisenbe]

It seems that the primary order of business has become the defaming of the founding fathers in an effort to undermine the Constitution by belittling its authors. Not exactly a good example of "accurate speech".

It's hard to imagine TJ fathering six children with this woman. The risk of public censure would seem to have been great. Maybe 18th century colonials just winked at such behavior, but that still seems pretty extreme.

[Athos]

Rape is probably the wrong word. But Jefferson very likely fathered all her children.

When the slave Master approaches his slave with sexual advances, and the slave has no power to refuse those advances, I call it rape. If others (not you, WG) wish to call it a romantic love story, that is their privilege.

https://www.monticello.org/thomas-je...sally-hemings/

What cancel culture has become is the Taliban destroying the Budda statues of Bamyan .

The Taliban removed the Buddha statues because of their religious bigotry.

The Jefferson controversy is based on his FACTUAL ownership of human beings as slaves.

Hardly the same thing.

[jlisenbe]

If others (not you, WG) wish to call it a romantic love story, that is their privilege.

Except, of course, that no one here has posted that. As I understand it, this arrangement was supposedly put together while TJ and SH were in France where she was, for that time, free due to the fact that France did not allow slavery. She could have chosen to stay, but instead came back to Virginia with the condition that any children she bore would be set free. Or at least that is what has been alleged by some parties. That he even fathered children by her is far from proven. Perhaps someone else knows the details better.

not you, WG

"No liberal shalt at any time be critical of another liberal."

[Wondergirl]

That was the lifestyle back then centuries ago -- the plantation master was the master. Full stop. Everyone -- his wife, his children, his slaves -- bent to his wishes.

Wikipedia: In the fall of 2001, the National Genealogical Society published a special issue of its quarterly devoted to the Jefferson–Hemings controversy. In several articles, its specialists concluded that, as the genealogist Helen M. Leary wrote, the "chain of evidence": historical, genealogical, and DNA, supported the conclusion that Thomas Jefferson was the father of all of Hemings' children.^{[69]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff...gs_controversy}

[jlisenbe]

That was the lifestyle back then centuries ago -- the plantation master was the master. Full stop. Everyone -- his wife, his children, his slaves -- bent to his wishes.

Which does not even come close to proving that TJ fathered children with SH.

the "chain of evidence": historical, genealogical, and DNA, supported the conclusion

Note the use of "supported", indicating that the evidence falls short of "proved" or "demonstrated". So again, it is possible but not certain.

[Wondergirl]

So again, it is possible but not certain.

We'll find out once we're in Heaven.

[tomder55]

I already did my commentary on the woke TJ Foundation The Foundation has turned Monticello into a single issue horror of slavery exhibit . .A tour of his home is a revisionist history that smears one of the great inventors, thinkers, architects, and statesmen of all time . It is an exercise in cancel pure and simple . The story can be told and still respect Jefferson's contributions to the country and to Western culture Enlightenment .


Yes the American cancel culture is EXACTLY like the Taliban that has waged war on Afghanistan's poetry, film, music, art, artifacts, antiquities, statues, museums, history . If unchecked the Afghan culture pre-Taliban will have successfully been erased from memory in a generation .

Yes all the children will be taught Jefferson was a slave holder while the fact that he eliminated the transatlantic slave trade to the United States; that he was instrumental in the creation of a free Midwest that led to a weakening of the slave states ...doubled the size of the nation with free states ;and led directly to a Civil War that freed the slaves a generation later . That abolitionist movements took shape after he penned 'all men are created equal' will be erased and the only thing the kids will retain is that he had slaves .

[Athos]

'all men are created equal' will be erased and the only thing the kids will retain is that he had slaves .

Comparing the Taliban to your "woke/cancel" nonsense is ridiculous. No one has argued that Jefferson's accomplishments should be erased - no one beside you, that is.

Bringing our history up to date with truths that have been ignored for centuries is a good thing. You don't like it because it disturbs your jaundiced and false view of a USA that never existed. Time to grow up and acknowledge the evil committed along the way to the present day. That does NOT mean ignoring the good, even tho that seems to be what you want. I wonder why.

[tomder55]

I'm not the one toppling statues .

[jlisenbe]

I'm not the one toppling statues .

Great reply.

Could add that when the story of Jefferson becomes centered around his owning slaves, then it basically amounts to an erasing, or at least diluting of, Jefferson's accomplishments.

[Athos]

I'm not the one toppling statues .

Neither is anybody else.

Could add that when the story of Jefferson becomes centered around his owning slaves, then it basically amounts to an erasing, or at least diluting of, Jefferson's accomplishments.

Of course it dilutes Jefferson's accomplishments. Why wouldn't owning slaves do that? Did you expect it to improve his reputation?

[tomder55]

Originally Posted by tomder55
I'm not the one toppling statues .



Neither is anybody else.

From city hall to woke cancel culture mobsters ,to school districts to colleges, to the Jefferson Foundation and home in Monticello ,Jefferson's being cancelled


A Thomas Jefferson statue is removed from New York City Hall after 187 years | CNN

Portland Protesters Topple Thomas Jefferson Statue at Jefferson High School (wweek.com)

Thomas Jefferson removed from elementary school's name because he owned slaves | WCIV (abcnews4.com)

UVA students want Jefferson ;who founded the college in 1819 ,cancelled from the University.

"Our physical environment — from statues to building names to Jefferson’s overwhelming presence — exalts people who held the same beliefs as the repugnant white supremacists"

EDITORIAL: To create “citizen leaders,” U.Va. must do more - The Cavalier Daily - University of Virginia's Student Newspaper

“The tour guides play ‘besmirchment derby,’ never missing a chance to defame this brilliant, complex man,”
Monticello draws criticism after trashing Thomas Jefferson (nypost.com)

[Athos]

From city hall to woke cancel culture mobsters ,to school districts to colleges, to the Jefferson Foundation and home in Monticello ,Jefferson's being cancelled

Taliban and Buddha - Jefferson. Apples and oranges.

[tomder55]

Then they came for Ian Flemming

Ian Fleming’s James Bond books rewritten to remove ‘offensive’ references | The Independent