[Athos]

Three replies to Tomder have been bunched into one. Sorry. Worth reading all of them.

There are concerns by Moldova's President Maia Sandu of Russia attempting a coup in the country with the help of saboteurs disguised as anti-government protesters. She based the charge on rumors that Zelinsky spread .

Zelenskyy: Ukraine caught Russian plan to 'destroy' Moldova - ABC News (go.com)

Your link doesn't say that. It says her intelligence people found similar informaton to what Zelensky provided. You should read your own links, Tom.

Would NATO come to the defense of Moldova in the event of a coup to reinstall a pro-western leader ?

NATO was not created to defend against a pro-western coup.
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Second reply.

and Russia should believe this why ?

Because NATO has been there almost 75 years and hasn't attacked Russia during all that time. NATO has been a defensive alliance against an expansionist Soviet Union and now an expansionist Russia.

Because when Russia was at it's weakest NATO attacked Serbia and carved out another nation from it ?

Tomder, please, this is a gross mis-writing of recent history. NATO did not attack Serbia because of Russian weakness. NATO attacked Serbia because of its treatment (ethnic cleansing) of Kosovo's Muslims.

Because the west convinced Ghaddafi to disarm right before they sent troops in to overthrow and assassinate him ? Because the US armed jihadists against Russia in Afghanistan ?

Action against Libya had nothing to do with Russia. Russia invaded Afghanistan. NATO had nothing to do with that. Tomder, keep it up and you're going to make me say things I'll get deleted for. I'm trying my best not to do that, but you are getting SO FAR off the track, it's hard to restrain myself.

The US almost went to WWIII against the Soviet Union because they were putting nuclear weapons on an island 90 miles away from us. Imagine Russia or Chinas having a military presence on the US Mexico border . That is the equivalent threat

Apples and fig newtons. The Cuban crisis was an aggressive move against the US that had no basis in any US aggression. The military presence of NATO was a direct result of Russian tacit threats to Western Europe and was a defensive alliance against those threats.

Imagine the US hearing Xi say 'well Chinese troops on your border is only a threat if you make it so.'

LOL. Xi has to get his troops there first. Fat chance of that ever happening.

Your point is NATO's stated position being its existence defending against Russian expansion. The difference is NATO has been there for 75 years and has never directly threatened Russia or its predecessor. It's "threat" is defensive.

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Third reply.

Quid pro Joe will travel to Poland on Feb 20-22 on the anniversary of the war . He will meet with the 'Bucharest Nine' ;the NATO nations on jt's eastern flank ,to give them marching orders. NATO’s forward presence includes multinational battlegroups in Bulgaria, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Romania and Slovakia. They have also sent more ships, planes and troops to NATO’s eastern flank, from the Baltic Sea in the north to the Black Sea in the south.

This would include Romania where the elite 101st Airborne is now deployed ;AWAC planes ,and the US navy is stationed at Deveselu Military Base,on the Black Sea .



Last time he was in Poland he shouted out his support for the ousting of Putin ,

All of the above is in reaction to Russia invading Ukraine. It is letting Putin know what he's in for if he doesn't leave Ukraine and go home.

The US ruling elite saw a threat when Trump suggested that the US should pull back from our international engagements and that European NATO members should have more skin in the game.

Let's leave Trump out of this discussion. The man could barely read and Russia was delighted when he tried to dismantle NATO. I have a very hard time not thinking of Trump as a traitor especially when his attempt to overthrow the government under the guise of "election denial" is added. No, it's not your silly "TDS".

This threatened US dominance and that was unacceptable to them. What better way to rekindle the status quo Cold War revival than a war against the boogie man Russia ?

So, "they" told Russia to invade Ukraine??? Can I have some of what you're smoking, tom?

The outcome in Ukraine is secondary to that goal . Ukraine may be won or lost . But a revitalized NATO with a real enemy deadly evil foe will go on . This is a tale as old as Manichean good vs evil .The Ukrainians call Russian soldiers Orks in reference to the 'Lord of the Rings' good vs evil tale.

This paragraph would have me laughing were it not so bizarre. "Deadly evil foe", "Manichean good and evil", "Orks", "Lord of the Rings", ??? Calm down, tom.

great job of US and NATO coming to the aid of Turkey after an earth quake that has already claimed the lives of 35,000 Turks

The US IS sending aid to Turkey. From day one. What makes you think it isn't? You just blowing off steam? Biden said, "... the United States is determined to do all that we can to help those affected by these earthquakes in the days, weeks, and months ahead.”

It is just as easy to argue that the world is pulling away from the American hegemon. Have you seen what happened in the Solomon Islands where thousands of American marines died ? The nation ;critical to our policies in the Pacific signed a security pact with China. The pro-Taiwan leader of it's most populated island was ousted this week.Me ;I would argue that the Solomon chain is more vital to American interests than Ukraine .This war is good for the military industrial complex. It is now incumbent to ramp up production cost be damned . Not only do we need to replace our own depleted arsenal .Our allies will be more dependant on US armament. The Poles are sending their Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They will be replaced by M1A Abrams .Taking out the Nordstom II pipeline is the last act making Europe completely dependent on US energy. But how good an ally is NATO ? Germany is certainly wobbly .France does what France does. It certainly does not muster the military might it had in the 1960s .Germany has cut it's military by half since the 1970s . Most NATO nations would have difficulty committing 20,000 troops to a conflict . The smaller states are down to a couple thousand. Only the Poles have a force sufficient to what is needed . The rest are completely dependent on US muscle. They contribute nothing significant to the alliance. Militarily they are vassal states decades after they should've moved on to become collectively our equal partner .We are Rome 3rd century forward desperately holding on to an empire .It will end much sooner because the Roman legions were manned by the dependent states . The US has no such luxury.

You REALLY need to calm down, Tomder. The topic is Russia's invasion of Ukraine, not the 3rd century Roman legions.

[jlisenbe]

General support for sending aid to Ukraine would evaporate like the morning mist if our dishonest pols woke up tomorrow morning and realized that all of this stuff has to be paid for with increased tax rates. As I often say, it's easy to support that which costs me nothing.

[tomder55]

The Cuban crisis was an aggressive move against the US that had no basis in any US aggression.

Really ? Who deployed Nukes 1st ;the Soviets in Cuba ;or the US nuclear-armed Jupiter missiles in Turkey ? Did the US not attempt an invasion of Cuba in 1961 by surrogates that were supposed to be supported by US air power ?

[Athos]

Really ? Who deployed Nukes 1st ;the Soviets in Cuba ;or the US nuclear-armed Jupiter missiles in Turkey ? Did the US not attempt an invasion of Cuba in 1961 by surrogates that were supposed to be supported by US air power ?

That's it? That's your entire reply? Hmmm...

For the rest, we can assume you agree or you have no coherent rebuttal.

Just so you know - the Cuban crisis was not the cause of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. They are separated in time by more than 50 years! Hmmm...

You are proving once more that the right-wing has little or no regard for facts. I think I know the answer why.

This is from my thread at Christianity, which clearly applies here in this thread:

Interesting that this also applies to the political mindset, especially to the right-wing of the spectrum. It is not surprising that the largest demographic of the right-wing is composed primarily of fundamentalist/evangelical Christians.

For further explanation, see Christianity and the thread entitled On Fundamentalism.

[tomder55]

For the rest, we can assume you agree or you have no coherent rebuttal.

If I chose to reply at all it will be on my timeframe.

[jlisenbe]

Who on earth would want to reply in detail to the convoluted, long-winded, opinion-based, utterly unsupported post 21?

[Athos]

If I chose to reply at all it will be on my timeframe.

Until then, I'll stand by my assumption that you agree with my points or you have no coherent rebuttal.

[tomder55]

yawn ....you can assume anything you want to . Ukraine is being destroyed on command from Quid protecting Hunter's business interests .The war is portrayed as one between Russia and Ukraine. It is that, but also more than that. It is a war between the U.S. and Russia, with Kyiv as a proxy. Strategically the U.S.is attempting to depower Russia through the expansion of NATO. It is crucial to recognize this in order to understand the war itself.

[Athos]

Ukraine is being destroyed on command from Quid protecting Hunter's business interests

Gee, what a terrific, incredibly insightful explanation. Now please tell us exactly HOW did Biden manage to force Putin to invade Ukraine.

Was Lee Harvey Oswald Biden and Putin's go-between? Rasputin? Jack the Ripper? Maybe you could just post the appropriate link from Qanon for the rest of here to get the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

[tomder55]

Tensions with China are mounting . Xi and his foreign minister Qin Gang warned the US that we are spiraling towards war .Qin previously served as China's ambassador to the US.
Chinese minister warns of conflict unless US changes course | AP News

Who knows ? Maybe banning TikTok will put it over the edge .

White House backs bipartisan bill that could be used to ban TikTok (nbcnews.com)

If the Chinese really wanted to cool down tensions they could start by not sending spy balloons over our strategic bases ;and stop installing spy cranes in the ports we foolishly let them manage in the US.

US raises concerns over Chinese 'spy-cranes' at ports - Port Technology International

Chinese state-owned enterprises hold ownership stakes in terminals at five U.S. ports. Long Beach, Los Angeles, and Seattle, and a minority stake in Miami and Houston.