[jlisenbe]

Great. How much have you sent so far?

Did you know that Samaritan's Purse has set up a hospital already in Ukraine?

[Wondergirl]

Great. How much have you sent so far?

Matthew 6:1-4.

[jlisenbe]

I suspect the answer is zero, but I will respect your privacy. But you have to commend the SP people, or at least you certainly should.

[Wondergirl]

I suspect the answer is zero

So Christian of you....

But you have to commend the SP people, or at least you certainly should.

They certainly are bleating it all over the place!

"Don't should on yourself," Dr. Ellis told us.

[jlisenbe]

They certainly are bleating it all over the place!

Interesting. Some people disrupt their lives and finances to go help others. The woman who has basically done nothing complains.

"So Christian of you..."

[tomder55]

Originally Posted by jlisenbe
And I have a funny feeling of who they think will pay for it.



A tremendous, heartfelt, humane opportunity for Donald Trump, Elon Musk, et al.

I think those who profit from it should be more than happy to contribute to the rebuilding . The Biden crime family and Yertle and his wife Elaine Chou come immediately to mind.

But you know the game plan .We will be told that a 21st century Marshall plan is the right thing to do . Make sure the Big guy gets 10% . Wonder how Zelinsky will launder his share now that SBF is out of business ?

[Athos]

When did my country right or wrong become a lefty mantra ?

How about my country is RIGHT?

As far as a lefty mantra, that's a common meme among the right-wing. As an independent, I support the truth proven by facts such as videos, audios, documents, emails, eyewitnesses, etc. When those truths criticize the Republicans, the right immediately denounces the facts as "lefty". To the right-wing, the center is the left.

Wait until those "freedom loving nations have to choose between heating their homes and supporting the facade of Ukraine democracy At least Rishi Sunak in England is doing an audit of their support for Ukraine.

No fight against tyranny is without suffering. The brave do not count the cost, they do their duty. The cowards sell out.

We keep on pouring resources there with no accountability . We are even going to be sending Patriot systems that Clueless said would not happen

Thank God Biden is able to react to changing circumstances. He is proving to be an excellent wartime leader.

Those systems require hundreds of trained operators

They're being trained.

This is Vietnam all over again . Advisors were followed by a fake provocation that justified US troops involvement .

Absurd! There s no provocation - unless you mean the dastardly invasion by Russia, a day that will live in infamy.

I would like to have an honest national debate .

Fine with me.

We keep on pouring resources there with no accountability

The accountability is in the results - from an anticipated three-day walk-over by the super-power Russia, the war has lasted over 300 days due to the fighting spirit of the Ukranians, morally and materially supported by the entire free world. Howz that for accountability?

We don't even gety news about the war that is isn't filtered by the government

Ridiculous. The war is covered daily with media right in the thick of it in Ukraine. How you can make such a comment is beyond me.

When was the last time there was a war where we don't even get reporting by imbedded journalist

On-scene journalists are better then imbedded journalists. You just complained about government filters - who is more likely to be filtered, free-wheeling or imbedded? Look before you leap.

You don't find it strange that all the news out of Ukraine supports Zelinski's and the official narrative

Not in the least. The news is all backed up by various correspondents from different media sources.

No Ukraine abuses ;even from the Azov Ukrainians

You mean the local white supremacist/neo-nazis just like we have in this country? Most Ukranians like most Americans denounce these groups. In any case, how does that excuse the Russian invasion?

fm Athos
Mueller cited ten obstruction of justice crimes,
fm Tomder
The Russian collusion narrative has been totally debunked .

Mueller specifically noted no Russian collusion. The Repub right continues to obsess over the issue when it has long been discarded. Mueller found Russian INTERFERENCE, and Trump crimes.

[tomder55]

I see no reports from the ground at all. I see plenty of reports that quote Ukrainian Ministry of Defense provided information.

How about my country is RIGHT?

Our country is just swooning over Zelinsky the new object of virtue..... and as you know American's love to virtue signal. Oh they all had a collective orgasm when he walked into Congress in a Fidel Castro costume. I'm surprised he did not put on Che Guevera hat .That could've gotten him the promise of nuclear tipped rockets from our arsenal . Take a picture with him .....the photo may end up in the next issue of Vogue.

[jlisenbe]

Mueller found Russian INTERFERENCE, and Trump crimes.

This is nothing more than a resurrection of the liberal dem fantasy that Mueller's two year, many millions of dollars effort had found evidence of Trump working with the Russkies to win the 2016 election. That was the primary goal of the investigation, yet it came up empty. Too bad for liberal dems.

[Athos]

Our country is just swooning over Zelinsky the new object of virtue..... and as you know American's love to virtue signal. Oh they all had a collective orgasm when he walked into Congress in a Fidel Castro costume. I'm surprised he did not put on Che Guevera hat .That could've gotten him the promise of nuclear tipped rockets from our arsenal . Take a picture with him .....the photo may end up in the next issue of Vogue.

LOL - that's actually pretty funny. You have a future as a cartoonist with PRAVDA, or whatever the current prop-speak sheet is.

[tomder55]

US will also be sending JDAM ( Joint Direct Attack Munitions) offensive satellite guided missiles to Ukraine .

Who's sats will guide the missiles and who will do the target selection and acquisition ? Yes the US will be an active participant in the war.

How will the US react when Russia retaliates by sending up a satellite killing rocket?

[jlisenbe]

Tom, what is your view of the possibility of peace negotiations?

[tomder55]

Negotiations are always possible . The West will soon demand a negotiated settlement before next winter . Time is running out for both sides to achieve their goals by combat

Both sides would have to agree that their war aims are not achievable . Ukraine's goals of removing Russia from Ukraine is not possible . Russia's war aims of creating a land bridge from Russia to Crimea does not appear to be obtainable .A complete Russia defeat is not possible or even necessarily desirable.... as Henry Kissinger explains (now there is a stooge of the Kremlin )
Kissinger warns that if Russia is dissolved (the stated aim of the West), it would create a dangerous power vacuum as the larger powers in the region (India, China) rush in to claim parts of Russian territory for themselves, upsetting the global structure created following WWII.

Does the world today find itself at a comparable turning point in Ukraine as winter imposes a pause on large-scale military operations there? I have repeatedly expressed my support for the allied military effort to thwart Russia’s aggression in Ukraine. But the time is approaching to build on the strategic changes which have already been accomplished and to integrate them into a new structure towards achieving peace through negotiation.

.How to avoid another world war | The Spectator

As I have stated before ;the post WWII order was already being frayed by the collapse of the Soviet Union. The US should've moved to incorporate Russia into a larger European community where they would not be threatened by the expansion of NATO towards the edge of their border .
Instead old cold warriors did not die or fade away. They just looked for more missions for NATO through expansion of NATO and by a NATO cover proxy for America's wars

Kissinger proposed international intermediary supervision of a division of Ukraine by holding referendums by the people in East and South Ukraine .

If the pre-war dividing line between Ukraine and Russia cannot be achieved by combat or by negotiation, recourse to the principle of self-determination could be explored. Internationally supervised referendums concerning self-determination could be applied to particularly divisive territories which have changed hands repeatedly over the centuries.The goal of a peace process would be twofold: to confirm the freedom of Ukraine and to define a new international structure, especially for Central and Eastern Europe. Eventually Russia should find a place in such an order.

[Athos]

Kissinger proposed international intermediary supervision of a division of Ukraine by holding referendums by the people in East and South Ukraine

That gets us another East/West Germany, North/South Korea and North/South Vietnam. Kissinger was the one who carried out Nixon's plan to sabotage the Paris Peace Talks so Nixon could run on a platform of ending the war. This "strategy" caused the death of thousands of American soldiers.

[tomder55]

So which American Giant Corp will rebuild Ukraine when the war ends and the dust settles ? None other than BlackRock .Ukraine is paying the company with American taxpayer money to come up with a "road map" to reconstruction.

BlackRock Financial Markets Advisory to advise Ministry of Economy of Ukraine

The September meeting laid the groundwork for the Ukrainian government’s growing cooperation with BlackRock.


Last month, BlackRock announced that it had agreed to a “memorandum of understanding” with Ukraine’s Ministry of Economy.

The Nov. 10 agreement included plans for “establishing a roadmap for the investment framework’s implementation, including identifying design choices for the envisioned setup, structure, mandate and governance.”

Volodymyr, BlackRock's Larry Fink agree to help rebuild Ukraine (nypost.com)

Estimated cost of rebuilding is $349 billion . But you know ;with cost overruns and all ...............................

This was the real reason for Zelinsky's junket to DC .
The $13 billion US monopoly bucks already provided to Ukraine this year for budgetary support is but a small down payment .

When was Blackrock last in the news ? That would be in the spring of this year when the WSJ reported that they were distorting the US housing market artificially inflation it by buying $6 billion worth ot single family and rental homes.

Blackstone Bets $6 Billion on Buying and Renting Homes - WSJ

Higher housing costs benefit the properties already owned by BlackRock and the artificially high prices crowd out working families, leaving only the wealthy or investment firms with massive amounts of capital at their disposal as the only players left in the market.
BlackRock gets paid by U.S. taxpayers via the Ukrainian government to devise a reconstruction plan that ensures the success of their future investments in Ukraine, made from money gained by making American housing unaffordable.

[jlisenbe]

So which American Giant Corp will rebuild Ukraine when the war ends and the dust settles ?

So the U.S., which cannot pay its own bills, will now undertake to pay the bills for rebuilding another country?

You keep saying, "paid by U.S. taxpayers". I do get the point, but I wish that was actually true. If the taxpayers actually had to pay for all this stuff, then the federal budget would look wildly different, would be much smaller, and the country would be much better off.

[tomder55]

We are responsible for the monopoly money in the market . We are paying immediately with our shrinking purchase power through the inflation created by having these extras bucks in circulation. Eventually the piper has to be paid .