[tomder55]

Jonathan Turley on the Trump Jan 6 indictment

This is a free speech-killing indictment. There's no way around it. I write a great deal in academia in the free-speech area and I rarely seen a more chilling filing by the Department of Justice. The question that people have to ask themselves is, when is the price too high? People are obviously enraged, but what is the price too high to bag Donald Trump? This indictment is that prohibitive cost. Meaning, what they are attempting to do is criminalize what they consider to be disinformation.

And I have to tell you, this indictment is really sad moment for me. I hoped that Smith is going to indict on January 6th, that he would find unassailable evidence and unquestioned legal authority. He has neither in this indictment...

This is a speaking indictment but it doesn't say very much. It basically just says that we think Trump is lying that he actually didn't believe this. I can't tell you how faciously ridiculous this claim is. It starts up by saying, of course, you can say false things in the campaign, but then says that Trump knew they were false. Is that the test going forward in terms of criminalizing political speech?

Smith is just not only going to have to just bulldoze through the First Amendment, he's going to have to bulldoze through a line of cases by the Supreme Court...

I think what happened with Representative Goldman is that he looked ridiculous. He looked ridiculous in denying the obvious. Obviously, you're not going to sit at Cafe Milano and ask the vice president to ice-pick a prosecutor in Ukraine wedge as your order breadsticks.

The whole point of the call was to establish the deliverables for Hunter Biden. He could deliver, he was a phone call away from his father. The way influence-peddling occurs is you don't do this by committee, the fact is, you show you have access that things can be done. So the Democrats are really reaching that line with I think particularly the American public, they're not buying it. The polls show they show this is very serious corruption scandal. And indeed it is. It may be the most serious corruption scandal in my lifetime to come out of Washington D.C. and that's saying a lot in this city.

Turley on Trump: "This Is A Free Speech-Killing Indictment," Dems Are Reaching The Line With The American Public | Video | RealClearPolitics


By Smith's legal theory both Al Gore and GW Bush were guilty of election fraud by challenging the 2000 election .In fact any President's speech can now be called a conspiracy to defraud the US by a partisan prosecutor or an politicized DOJ .

1982 SCOTUS ruled in 'Nixon v. Fitzgerald' that the President “is entitled to absolute immunity from damages liability predicated on his official acts.”

Nixon v. Fitzgerald | Oyez

Trump believed there was fraud in the election . He asked his DOJ and State officials to find evidence. He suggested to Pence that since the election was stolen that Pence had the power to overturn the results in the Senate. Smith's whole charge is that Trump really did not believe there was fraud. I'm sure he will get a stacked DC jury to convict . The charges won't stand up in appeal.

[jlisenbe]

I don't think this has much to do with getting Trump. Rather, it has to do with getting Trump bogged down in court proceedings for the next fifteen months to possibly clear the field for a dem victory in November. This Biden administration is the most corrupt in my lifetime, and that's really saying something.

[tomder55]

The judge in this case was previously from a firm associated with Hunter Biden. She has also been hard core in sentencing of Jan 6 rioters . She will almost certainly place gag orders on Trump . She may just deny bail if he is convicted awaiting appeals.

It is pretty clear that the deep state strategy is to hamstring Trump while at the same time ensuring that he is the Repub nominee . That part is working . The more they pile on ;the more Trump pulls away from primary challengers .

The indictment looks more ridiculous the more I look at it ..

This poll taken last year shows the extent of how many people the election in 2020 was the result of cheating .

Rasmussen Reports Survey: Most voters think that cheating affected the outcome of the 2020 presidential election (crimeresearch.org)

Yet the case is made that Trump KNOWINGLY touting a fringe legal theory that he really did not believe, to defraud the government .

[jlisenbe]

It is pretty clear that the deep state strategy is to hamstring Trump while at the same time ensuring that he is the Repub nominee

Very good observation. It shows that there are still smart people in Washington who are using their smarts in devious ways.

[tomder55]

The Dems may regret this. Regardless of the verdict (I am 99% sure he will be found guilty ;and then it will be reversed in appeal like Virginia Guv Bob McDonnell's was ....[he was also indicted by Jack Smith ])

Trump will have his day in court and will be able to make his case that the election was stolen. Previous cases had Trump the accuser . He was responsible to bring evidence that a jury would accept; evidence that local election officials were not required to produce. Without such proof the cases were dismissed .

As a defendant Trump can watch the prosecution try to prove without a doubt that the election was fair. Evidence will have to be presented and subject to cross examination. As I have said before 'discovery is a b*tch'. He can introduce evidence countering the liar charge that predicates the charges against him. (not that political lying is a criminal offense

Local officials will need to prove every vote counted was a legal vote. Zuckerberg will have to testify the zuck bucks funding of ballot collection. He can demonstrate how elections were unconstitutionally seized by state Guvs and judges from state legislatures.
Imaging Dinesh D’Souza on the witness stand explaining how he gathered information for his documentary 2000 Mules for jury consideration.
2000 Mules Documentary Substantiates 2020 Election Fraud | Bossier Press-Tribune

Can they really deny that a ballot stuffing scheme did not happen in many of the key states ?

And here's the thing. Even if the prosecution can counter all that ;they still need to prove that Trump did not believe it .

What evidence do they have ? Trump telling Pence 'you're too honest ' ? (something Pence is now using in his campaign against Trump
Pence campaign capitalizes on Trump indictment, sells 'Too Honest' merchandise | Washington Examiner

[tomder55]

Jack Smith seems to really believe that Trump denials of the results of the election is an elaborate fraud by him rather than Trump truly believing the election was stolen.

But the evidence against that charge is compelling . Smith argues that even though Trump's lawyers (who are co-defendants ) told him that the moves he was making were constitutional ;he got plenty of other advice telling him that there was no longer a path to victory.

That may be true also and still not address Trump's mindset.

Georgia is going to indict him over his phone call with state Sec State Brad Raffensperger. He tried to convince Trump a dozen times or more that Trump had lost the state .Trump persisted in making an argument that all Raffensperger need to do was to look for the missing votes. He told Raffensperger he "won this election by hundreds of thousands of votes,"..... "there's no way I lost Georgia."

Full transcript: Trump's audio call with Georgia secretary of state Brad Raffensperger | CNN Politics

Rudy was telling him the Dems cheated in the state. Sidney Powell was telling him that the Dominion voting machines had been tampered with. Chief of Staff Mark Meadows and 2 other lawyers were in on the conversation telling him more points to discuss with the Georgia officials .

Congressional GOP reps were saying that electoral votes in disputed states could not be trusted . Pence was waffling; alternating between agreeing that the vote was suspicious ,then claiming he had no authority to do anything about it...... something that advisors who had his ears disputed .

Polls show that a large percentage of the people believe the election was rigged. In Trump's mind he was defending his people.

Here was his mindset.....He believed that he was cheated by the Dems and nothing was going to change his mind.

"Do you think it's possible that they shredded ballots in Fulton County?" "Because that's what the rumor is. And also that Dominion took out machines. That Dominion is really moving fast to get rid of their, uh, machinery. Do you know anything about that? Because that's illegal, right?"

They told him no machines were moved . But he was unconvinced .
.
Why would he not believe the election was stolen ? Evita had tried to cheat him out of the election in 2016. The deep state effectively kneecapped his Presidency with the false cloud of Russian collusion hanging over his head . The Dems impeached him for the benefit of Quid Pro Joe . Covid gave the Dems the opportunity to change state election rules unconstitutionally for their benefit .

Was it so unreasonable for him to them conclude the election was stolen ?

He said "It doesn't pass the smell test because we hear they're shredding thousands and thousands of ballots, and now what they're saying [is], 'Oh, we're just cleaning up the office.' You know."

In that he was now accusing Georgia Repubs of being part of the conspiracy against him. He points to video evidence of ballot counters tampering with results .

Does that sound like someone who is executing and elaborate fraud ?

Smith in the indictment points out that Trump sorta conceded that he lost . He points to interviews with historians in 2022 But that happened 2 years after the election and do not address his mindset on Jan 6 2021 . Certainly his law suits in the various states continued well past Jan 6.

What was his reaction to the interviews ?

"It seems to me that meeting with authors of the ridiculous number of books being written about my very successful administration, or me, is a total waste of time"'They write whatever they want to write anyway without sources, fact-checking, or asking whether or not an event is true or false.'

‘I didn’t win the election’: Trump admits defeat in session with historians | Books | The Guardian

Does that sound like admitted anything? He also told the historians the election was "rigged".

For Smith to make their case against Trump ,the prosecution should be required to prove that Trump perpetrated a cunning and diabolical plot . They have to prove he did not believe what he was saying on January 6 .As I have said ;they may convince a zombie DC jury . But I doubt a conviction will surive appeal.

[jlisenbe]

I don't like Trump and would much prefer someone else in the White House, but this whole legal process seems ridiculous. There were a lot of people who were convinced that the election was stolen, and considering the FBI colluded with social media companies in favor of Biden, it still seems to be a reasonable conclusion. It certainly has the smell of corruption in it.

[tomder55]

I don't like Trump and would much prefer someone else in the White House,

He is stupid. He threatened Smith . On Truth Social he posted “If you go after me, I’m coming after you”




So Jack Smith requested protection . Smith's motion states

All the proposed order seeks to prevent is the improper dissemination or use of discovery materials, including to the public. Such a restriction is particularly important in this case because the defendant has previously issued public statements on social media regarding witnesses, judges, attorneys, and others associated with legal matters pending against him. And in recent days, regarding this case, the defendant has issued multiple posts—either specifically or by implication—including the following, which the defendant posted just hours ago:

If the defendant were to begin issuing public posts using details—or, for example, grand jury transcripts—obtained in discovery here, it could have a harmful chilling effect on witnesses or adversely affect the fair administration of justice in this case.

Motion for Order of Protection Trump Trial | PDF | Discovery (Law) | Judiciaries (scribd.com)

Smith used Trump's stupid posting to request the judge to issue a restraining order about Trump possibly disclosing discovery material . (as I said 'discovery is a b*tch' But Trump is undermining the benefit to his defense).
Smith requested that ;

The defendant and defense counsel shall not disclose the Materials or their contents directly or indirectly to any person or entity other than persons employed to assist in the defense, persons who are interviewed as potential witnesses, counsel for potential witnesses, and other persons to whom the Court may authorize disclosure (collectively, “Authorized Persons”). Potential witnesses and their counsel may be shown copies of the Materials as necessary to prepare the defense, but they may not retain copies without prior permission of the Court.

Today Judge Chutkan ordered Trump’s team to file a response and their own version of a restraining order .

If Defendant disagrees with any portion of the government’s proposed Protective Order, ECF No. 10-1, his response shall include a revised version of that Protective Order with any modifications in redline


Trump's team asked to delay their response until Thursday. The judge declined his request .

[jlisenbe]

Completely in line with his past behavior. He has never learned how to keep his mouth shut.

[tomder55]

If politicians lying is now a criminal offense then we are going to need to build many new prisons.

[tomder55]

[jlisenbe]

What we need is some sort of Constitutional guarantee for free speech.

[tomder55]

gee I wish the framers thought of that !

[jlisenbe]

I’ll speak to them about it.

[tomder55]

Judge Tanya Chutkan has officially barred Trump from commenting on the corrupt political prosecutors and judges who are essentially preventing him to effectively campaigning .

He no longer can make comments about her , Special Counsel Jack Smith, their staff, and families, or saying anything that amounts to a “pre-trial smear campaign.”

I guess we should be thankful that she still allows him to say "crooked Joe" and to verbally attack Repubs at will.
Judge imposes gag order on Donald Trump in D.C. trial - POLITICO

[tomder55]

Tomorrow is the 3rd anniversary of the mostly peaceful riot of January 6

Clueless Joe plans to start his campaign at Valley Forge comparing himself to George Washington ;and his fight for independence from Britain.

2,000 troops died during the Valley Forge winter . He will sh*t on their memory .
This attempt to comes after he failed to compare the events of Jan 6 with the attack on 9-11; Pearl Harbor ;OKC bombing and the Civil War combined .

I hate to tell him . If there is any comparison to the struggle for independence from UK it is Clueless who resembles the mentally challenged King George III

[jlisenbe]

Clueless Joe plans to start his campaign at Valley Forge comparing himself to George Washington

Thus showing yet again that there are tens of millions of ignorant voters in America who will believe virtually anything.

[tomder55]

It has now been confirmed that Trump wanted 10,000 National Guard Troops deployed in DC for his Jan 6 rally. His request was rejected by the DC Mayor

It is now revealed that
Liz Cheney suppressed this information during the Kangaroo court . She claimed there was no evidence of it.

But in truth the committee was told of it on January 28 ,2022 by Deputy Chief of Staff Anthony Ornato. The transcript of his interview ;with Cheney present ;has been released.

Chairman Loudermilk Publishes Never-Before Released Anthony Ornato Transcribed Interview - Press Releases - United States Committee on House Administration

[jlisenbe]

Even a few hundred Capitol police officers would have been enough to have prevented the whole fiasco. Pelosi could have seen to that. Short of that, imagine what 500 Guardsmen would have prevented.