[Wondergirl]

This hat is a bit tight.

But you look so handsome! I love the way you pinch the brim of your fedora!

[tomder55]

Did the dufus and others not tell Pence to not certify electon results or not? Did the dufus and others not organize and invite his supporters to the capltal or not? Show me where the FBI said he didn't do as I have said.

Nothing to see here was and still is a lie!

He had opinions from legal experts that said Pence's role could be more than just the ceremonial role Pence interpreted it to be . Trump thought that Pence could reject electors he thought were "fraudulently " chosen. That is an interpretation of the law ;not an insurrection. Trump and his supporters did indeed invite supporters to rally and demonstrate in DC . That also is not leading an insurrection .

As for precedence all you have to do is look at the 3 times in the 21st century that the Dems challenged the electoral college results In 2001, House Dems challenged the certification of electoral votes for G. W. Bush,The objection failed because no senator agreed to sign the written objection. To his credit ;Al Gore presided as VP over the certification of the results . Maxine Waters was a very vocal Democrat insurrectionist at the joint session (I use the now popular definition of an insurrection) She said “The objection is in writing, and I do not care that it is not signed by a member of the Senate,” Perhaps Pence took his cue from Gore . Gore told Waters “The chair will advise that the rules do care,”

Again in 2005 there were Dem challenges to GW Bush. Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, D-Ohio, and then-Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., together in insurrection challenged Bush’s victory in Ohio on grounds of alleged voter irregularities. Changing that electoral result would've given the election to JFKerry .

Then in 2017 the Dems challenged Trump's electoral certification . This time Clueless Joe presided over the Senate . Again there were not enough votes in the Senate although clearly the attempt was made . The Dems pulled out their tried and well worn charge of voter suppression . They also pulled out the new Russia collusion hoax card .

[Wondergirl]

Trump and his supporters did indeed invite supporters to rally and demonstrate in DC . That also is not leading an insurrection .

Why didn't he stop it when it got out of hand?

[tomder55]

That was a bad call on his part . What does that prove ?

And what would've happened if Trump deployed troops while Congress was in session debating the certification of an election that Trump had lost ?

[Curlyben]

Deploying troops or even National Guard into that event would have inflamed the situation and it would have ended worse then it did.
Trump could have condoned or calmed things alot earlier than he eventually did.
He'd been firing up his loyal supports for weeks before this event happened, and telegraphed the actions all over the socials in the run up.

From watching from the outside it was clear that this wasn't going to be a mere quiet demonstration, but something alot more deadly.

[Wondergirl]

Trump could have condoned or calmed things alot earlier than he eventually did.

Yep! All he would have had to do was announce that plans had changed, so please quietly disperse.

[tomder55]

Trump could have condoned or calmed things alot earlier than he eventually did.

That was the 'bad call ' I referred to

From watching from the outside it was clear that this wasn't going to be a mere quiet demonstration, but something alot more deadly.

Brings us back to my OP . Who gains ?

It is 20 /20 hindsight to say it was clear that this was not a mere demonstration There was no indication that this would turn out worse than a demonstration ....and if so then why was the Capitol Police so unprepared ? Why did the Mayor of DC and Madam Mim call off the National Guard before the date ? Either it was not anticipated, or they fully expected it and let it happen to advance their agenda. It can't be both .

[jlisenbe]

Show me where the FBI said he didn't do as I have said.

The link is on post 48. I'm not going to read it for you.

As to Trump stopping it, that was not his job. He didn't start it to begin with. It was the job of the Capitol cops to stop it. They are under the authority of the Congress. Blame them.

[talaniman]

That just leaves the 187 minutes from the breach of the capital until the NG did arrive. That's part of what the investigation is about. Don't agree it would have been worse if they had been deployed sooner, but a valid point as to why they weren't there before...as they have been at other events. Still don't know who planted the bombs at the repub and dem hqs, and reviewing past shenanigans 1/6 was on steroids, far worse than previous events.

I shudder to think what would happen if Pence (Or McConnell) had gone along with this ploy and the dufus had the votes to send this to congress. Is the electoral college that fragile an institution?

The link is on post 48. I'm not going to read it for you.

As to Trump stopping it, that was not his job. He didn't start it to begin with. It was the job of the Capitol cops to stop it. They are under the authority of the Congress. Blame them.

Maybe you should reread it yourself.

[jlisenbe]

Maybe you should reread it yourself.

If I do, that will be two times for me and zero times for you.

reviewing past shenanigans 1/6 was on steroids, far worse than previous events.

Don't see how you get that. The 1954 incident involved several men actually in the Congress firing weapons.

[talaniman]

Thought you hated unnamed sources. Obviously not when they fit your narrative. I read your link and apologize for my inability to copy and paste or provide my own links at this time.

[jlisenbe]

I don't like anonymous sources, but these FOUR sources were reliable enough for Reuters to trust them enough to run the story. The problem you have is that the article does not support your allegations. Many news services ran the story, so there must be at least something to it.

https://www.bing.com/search?PC=MQ03&...ot&FORM=MQ03DF

[jlisenbe]

The truth seems to be this. Trump has become the man that many folks love to hate. They enjoy their hatred of him in the same way that many cons loved to hate Obama. So if a story contradicts their beloved narratives, then it just MUST be wrong.

[Wondergirl]

As to Trump stopping it, that was not his job. He didn't start it to begin with.

Of course it was! He had whipped up a crowd that became a mob who wanted to help him get back the presidency. Jeepers! Watch the videos of his speeches that day.

[jlisenbe]

He did not start a riot. Jeepers! Watch the video of his speech where he encouraged his supporters to be peaceful in their protests. Miss that part?

Can you post any quote from Trump where he encouraged his supporters to be violent, or to enter the Capitol Building illegally? Have any quotes about that???

[tomder55]

I shudder to think what would happen if Pence (Or McConnell) had gone along with this ploy and the dufus had the votes to send this to congress. Is the electoral college that fragile an institution?

There is zero chance that would've happened .
The history of the republic is clear . It survived the 1800 election when the republic was still in it's infancy and Congress had to decide the election . It survived the 1824 election decided in Congress . It survived the 1876 election decided in Congress. All contingencies are covered .

We even survived when Chi town Mafia Boss Sam Giancana rigged the Chi town vote to throw the election to JFK .

here are those dangerous people who you shudder about

[talaniman]

I guess we'll see as the investigation proceeds and if repubs can keep protecting this lying cheating out of control bully yet again.

[Wondergirl]

He did not start a riot. Jeepers! Watch the video of his speech where he encouraged his supporters to be peaceful in their protests. Miss that part?

By then it was too late. He had wandered out of the WH after his 187 minutes of watching the insurrection and babbled that about being peaceful. Yeah, right!

Can you post any quote from Trump where he encouraged his supporters to be violent, or to enter the Capitol Building illegally? Have any quotes about that???

He wanted his presidency restored. He had lost unfairly. Yes, I can find them.

Here's a good summary leading up to and including the 6th:

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...-capitol-riot/

[tomder55]

By then it was too late. He had wandered out of the WH after his 187 minutes of watching the insurrection and babbled that about being peaceful. Yeah, right!

not true . That comment was made during his address to the crowd . What you are refering to is his later tweet address . Of that I agree he was late to the game . But in no way did he give orders to attack the Capitol

[Wondergirl]

not true . That comment was made during his address to the crowd . What you are refering to is his later tweet address . Of that I agree he was late to the game . But in no way did he give orders to attack the Capitol

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checkin...-capitol-riot/

What Trump said before the riot

Trump’s final direction to supporters came during his “Save America” rally around noon Jan. 6, when he repeated his Pants on Fire claim that he won.
“Our country has had enough,” Trump told his supporters. “We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal.”
The crowd later chanted: “Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!” Trump thanked them.
Trump praised the crowd for traveling from across the nation and for “the extraordinary love.”
“We’re gathered together in the heart of our nation’s capital for one very, very basic and simple reason: to save our democracy,” Trump said.
Trump repeatedly said there was a need to “fight.” After he bashed “weak” Republicans and Biden, he said: “Unbelievable, what we have to go through, what we have to go through and you have to get your people to fight. If they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them. We’re going to let you know who they are, I can already tell you, frankly.”
He continued with the fighting metaphors: “Republicans are constantly fighting like a boxer with his hands tied behind his back. It’s like a boxer, and we want to be so nice. We want to be so respectful of everybody, including bad people. We’re going to have to fight much harder, and Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us. And if he doesn’t, that will be a sad day for our country because you’re sworn to uphold our constitution. Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy.”
Trump then invited the crowd to go to the Capitol.
“And after this, we’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you. We’re going to walk down. We’re going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them, because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”
Trump used the word “peacefully” once at his rally:
“We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard. Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity of our elections, but whether or not they stand strong for our country, our country. Our country has been under siege for a long time, far longer than this four-year period.”