[jlisenbe]

You're clueless about how the virus spreads. Unvaccinated people can be asymptomatic and are the source of contagion.

They could only spread it to those who are similarly non-vaccinated and thus are taking the same risk. Pretty simple equation. It's still no one's business but their own.

it is better to take precautions than not and a lassi faire attitude is unacceptable

I never cease to be amazed at how much fake conservatives want to control the lives of others.

[tomder55]

Agreed. I would add that those not vaccinated are putting others at risk also in addition to themselves.

Only others who choose to not get the vaccine. Driving on wet ,slippery,icy roads is a risk to oneself and others . Yet millions of people take that risk in the North East every winter .

[jlisenbe]

If I was my old 40 year old self, I would not have taken the vaccine. The risk of dying, or even of hospitalization, for the under 50 crowd, especially for those who are otherwise healthy, is very, very, VERY low. Being 68 I decided that whatever risk it involved was an acceptable one relative to getting covid. But that was my decision and not the government's.

[Athos]

Only others who choose to not get the vaccine.

There are a few things wrong with that statement. Not everybody who is not vaccinated CHOOSES to be non-vaccinated. It was months before I found a place to get the vaccine that was accessible to me. Children generally do not choose yes or no re the vaccine. Then there are the disabled, the elderly, the housebound and so on and so forth. Not in every case, but in many cases.

But, most importantly, you seem to be saying it's not a problem if other non-vaccinated people get it because, after all, they also chose not to get the vaccine. If you think about that, it's like saying spreading the virus is OK if the spread-ee chose not to get it in the first place. The spreading is precisely the problem we're trying to stop.

Driving on wet ,slippery,icy roads is a risk to oneself and others . Yet millions of people take that risk in the North East every winter .

There are a few things wrong with that analogy also. The risk is not so great as to seriously affect the nation's economy or cause 500,000+ deaths or millions of hospitalizations or possibly long term sickness.

Second, what do you do when the authorities close the roads because of dangerous driving conditions?

Being 68 I decided that whatever risk it involved was an acceptable one relative to getting covid.

Your lack of action puts others at risk, not just yourself.

[jlisenbe]

Not everybody who is not vaccinated CHOOSES to be non-vaccinated. It was months before I found a place to get the vaccine that was accessible to me. Children generally do not choose yes or no re the vaccine. Then there are the disabled, the elderly, the housebound and so on and so forth. Not in every case, but in many cases.

Otherwise healthy children have virtually no risk factor with covid. As to the others, it would be a simple matter to put up a sign, "Only vaccinated people allowed here." It would certainly be preferable to a government imposed mandate to inject something into your body.

[Athos]

It would certainly be preferable to a government imposed mandate to inject something into your body.

That "something" you despise is a vaccine preventing a deadly virus - a vaccine that can save your life.

What government has mandated the vaccine?

[tomder55]

what do you do when the authorities close the roads because of dangerous driving conditions?

Driving is a privilege not a right . Generally I approve of that because my stalled vehicle on the road impedes clean up efforts .

[Athos]

Driving is a privilege not a right . Generally I approve of that because my stalled vehicle on the road impedes clean up efforts .

So this somehow supports those refusing to get the vaccine?

[jlisenbe]

That "something" you despise is a vaccine preventing a deadly virus - a vaccine that can save your life.

All true enough, though you failed to mention that it is new technology and relatively unproven. I have no problem with you or anyone advocating for the vaccine. It's a government mandate that I would oppose.

What government has mandated the vaccine?

Some state controlled universities have mandated it. There is a lot of talk of mandates for flying, working, etc.

[Athos]

All true enough, though you failed to mention that it is new technology and relatively unproven.

Relatively unproven? Where do you get that from?

It's a government mandate that I would oppose.

There is no government mandate.

There is a lot of talk of mandates

A lot of talk......???

California has mandated covid vaccination for school children.

Good for California.

[jlisenbe]

Relatively unproven? Where do you get that from?

This is the first of the mRNA vaccines to be used. The whole technology is fairly new and has never been used to mass produce a human vaccine.

A lot of talk......???

Yes, like right here. "Good for California."

[paraclete]

There are serious problems with many vaccines, the devil as usual is in the detail

[Athos]

(from Athos) There is no government mandate.

(from Jlsenbe)There is a lot of talk of mandates

(from Athos)A lot of talk......???

from Jlsenbe)Yes, like right here. "Good for California."

"A lot of talk" is NOT a mandate. You missed the point.

[jlisenbe]

No, you missed the point. You asked about there being, "A lot of talk...??" I showed that you are talking about mandates affirmatively yourself in your approval of California.

Here is some of the "talk". https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...s-and-the-u-s/

And to be clear, it is plain that there are some vaccine mandates already in place involving state institutions.

https://universitybusiness.com/state...ring-vaccines/

[Athos]

No, you missed the point. You asked about there being, "A lot of talk...??" I showed that you are talking about mandates affirmatively yourself in your approval of California.

Vaccinations for schoolchildren is not "a lot of talk".

and to be clear, it is plain that there are some vaccine mandates already in place involving state institutions.

There is no government mandate. This thread is drifting.

[jlisenbe]

I posted the link about talk of mandates. Also posted about university mandates. Ignore them if you want.

[Athos]

I posted the link about talk of mandates. Also posted about university mandates. Ignore them if you want.

So ignored.

[paraclete]

so speaking of mandates and non mandates the Australian government has moved to make vaccination mandatory for workers in aged care facilities, it is a short step to making vaccination mandatory for many professions and eventually the whole population. he who pays the bill gets to set the conditions

[paraclete]

The Australian federal government has said anyone who wants the AstraZeneca vaccine may have it while medical advice restricts this particular vaccine to over 60's. The Queensland government has said they won't follow and will continue to restrict the vaccine and so the rollout of the vaccine has become politicised. It is very academic since Queensland only has a few cases of the delta strain and is panicing again

[tomder55]

Did lock downs contribute to the death rate ? The Rand Corporation and the University of Southern California, working on behalf of the National Bureau of Economic Research, released a study about that .

We failed to find that countries or U.S. states that implemented [shelter in place] policies earlier, and in which [shelter-in-place] policies had longer to operate, had lower excess deaths than countries/U.S. states that were slower to implement [shelter in place] policies. We also failed to observe differences in excess death trends before and after the implementation of [shelter in place] policies based on pre-[shelter in place] COVID-19 death rates.

The Impact of the COVID-19 Pandemic and Policy Responses on Excess Mortality | NBER

People, businesses, and communities were destroyed because some public health “experts” were certain this was needed to save lives. They saved no lives but made people miserable and poorer in return for nothing.