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Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Nah. All those murders, rapes, shootings, sexual assaults, and immoral sexual relationships are not godless. Well...I guess they are not godless to you. They are to me.

Thus, Derek Chauvin is guilty of murdering George Floyd by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

State mental institutions are not controlled by the feds. And your reference to Reagan is simply wrong.

I didn't say they were, but they do follow federal guidelines. Reagan was a Republican.

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 01:42 PM

Thus, Derek Chauvin is guilty of murdering George Floyd by kneeling on his neck for 9 minutes and 29 seconds.

It's in a court of law where it should be. I'm not sure that was the cause of death, but if it was, then he is guilty.

Reagan was a Republican.

So?

Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So?

You were damning liberals.

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 02:12 PM

Reagan was not responsible for this mess. That largely occurred twenty or thirty years before.

Besides all of that, most of these mass shooters were by no means active mental health patients. Most of them, it seems to me, come from dysfunctional family situations which is yet another result of the general drift towards godlessness in our country.

Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Reagan was not responsible for this mess. That largely occurred twenty or thirty years before.

What occurred???

Besides all of that, most of these mass shooters were by no means active mental health patients. Most of them, it seems to me, come from dysfunctional family situations which is yet another result of the general drift towards godlessness in our country.

There's no mental illness in "godly" families and thus no shootings or other mayhem. Gotcha! (Oh, do I have true stories to tell you that will give you nightmares!)

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 02:21 PM

What occurred???

I posted it earlier. You didn't bother to read it. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showth...73#post3867273

There's no mental illness in "godly" families and thus no shootings or other mayhem. Gotcha!

Who said there wasn't? Why do you keep making these things up?

Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I posted it earlier. You didn't bother to read it.

Okay. 1955. Eisenhower, a Republican.

Deinstitutionalization began in 1955 with the widespread introduction of chlorpromazine, commonly known as Thorazine, the first effective antipsychotic medication, and received a major impetus 10 years later with the enactment of federal Medicaid and Medicare.

Who said there wasn't? Why do you keep making these things up?

Godliness isn't going to make us all civilized. That won't happen until the next life.

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 02:34 PM

1955. Eisenhower, a Republican.

So you make up something about Eisenhower, and then completely ignore this. Am I surprised? No.

"While President Trump and others have claimed a connection exists between mental illness and the rise in gun violence, most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."

It does give me great amusement to see that you have allied yourself with Trump.

Godliness isn't going to make us all civilized.

You need to read this. How Christianity Changed the World

Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

So you make up something about Eisenhower, and then completely ignore this. Am I surprised? No.

"While President Trump and others have claimed a connection exists between mental illness and the rise in gun violence, most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."

You don't read the newspapers and listen to the tv news about mass murderers' motives. Should I make a list? All the deadly school shootings that happened since Columbine were because the shooters hadn't gotten dessert after dinner or just didn't like young kids. No mental illness. Got it!

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 03:47 PM

You don't read the newspapers and listen to the tv news about mass murderers' motives. Should I make a list? All the deadly school shootings that happened since Columbine were because the shooters hadn't gotten dessert after dinner or just didn't like young kids. No mental illness. Got it!

To you and Donald Trump I will simply repeat this. "...most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."

All the deadly school shootings that happened since Columbine were because the shooters hadn't gotten dessert after dinner or just didn't like young kids. No mental illness. Got it!

A very foolish and simplistic rendering of a very serious problem.

Athos · Apr 18, 2021, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I'm not sure that was the cause of death,

This re the Chauvin trial of murdering Floyd. A bizarro statement. If you're "not sure", what are you not sure of? What are you sure of? What do you think the cause of death was? As far as I can tell, you are the only one on the entire planet who is not sure of the cause of death. Buy a television or a newspaper.

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 04:23 PM

Huh. Looks like there are others after all.

"KASTE: Well, clarity is what the prosecution was hoping for today. They have a bit of a problem because the language on George Floyd's death certificate is open to interpretation. The cause of death is the following - quote, "cardiopulmonary arrest, complicating law enforcement subdural restraint and neck compression. The certificate also gives contributing factors such as heart disease, fentanyl intoxication and recent meth use.So today we heard from the man responsible for the words on the death certificate, Andrew Baker, the chief medical examiner for Hennepin County. And he talked about how contributing factors, such as Floyd's heart disease, combined with all that adrenaline that was rushing through Floyd's body."

"CHANG: OK, so it sounds like he's saying police did cause Floyd's death but with the help of other medical factors?
KASTE: Yeah, so I think what's important to point out here is that the prosecutors did not put him on the stand first. Instead, they started the day with another forensic pathologist, Lindsey Thomas. She used to work in Hennepin County. And she said she agreed with the official cause of death, but she interpreted it this way."

In the interest of fairness, it goes on to say, "LINDSEY THOMAS: What it means to me is that the activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr. Floyd's death and that, specifically, those activities were the subdural restraint and the neck compression."

Note the expression, "What it means to me..." Hardly a hard and fast statement.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/09/98586...vins-murder-tr

Your anti-police bias is showing itself.

Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 04:29 PM

And if I died while police were sitting on me and kneeling on my neck for ten minutes, the cause of death would be aplastic anemia?

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 04:33 PM

I have no idea and neither do you. I tell you what mental health professionals say about mass shootings and you just blow it off since you think you and Trump are smarter than them. Now I tell you what a med examiner said and evidently you are smarter than him as well. How impressive.

Wondergirl · Apr 18, 2021, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I have no idea and neither do you. I tell you what mental health professionals say about mass shootings and you just blow it off since you think you and Trump are smarter than them. Now I tell you what a med examiner said and evidently you are smarter than him as well. How impressive.

Those medical professionals were skating, as you well know. Reread their comments and notice their hedging.

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 04:57 PM

Those medical professionals were skating, as you well know. Reread their comments and notice their hedging.

The mental health professionals were skating? Well, let's post the passage again. "...most mental health professionals vehemently disagree."There is no real connection between an individual with a mental health diagnosis and mass shootings. That connection according to all experts doesn't exist," says Bethany Lilly of the Bazelon Center for Mental Health Law."

But as I said, you and DT apparently know better.

As to the med examiner, you don't "skate" when you are under oath in a high profile trial.

I've found that this seems to be your MO when the facts don't agree with you. You start resorting to "skating" and "hedging". In other words, "Don't pay attention to what they say. Pay attention to what WG says." Sorry, but I don't like that option. I'll stick with the pros.

Athos · Apr 18, 2021, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Huh. Looks like there are others after all.

No, there are not. Under cross, Medical Examiner Baker testified that those things ( drug use, heart problems, narrowed arteries ) were NOT the primary cause of death. Kaste is not a witness. He's a reporter.

"CHANG: OK, so it sounds like he's saying police did cause Floyd's death but with the help of other medical factors?

Chang was a policeman at the scene. According to your own quote by the reporter, Chang said the police DID cause Floyd's death. In any case, Chang is not qualified to say what the cause of death was.

LINDSEY THOMAS: What it means to me is that the activities of the law enforcement officers resulted in Mr. Floyd's death and that, specifically, those activities were the subdural restraint and the neck compression."

Could it be any clearer what she testified the cause of death was?

Note the expression, "What it means to me..." Hardly a hard and fast statement.

Another glaring example of your inability to process the meaning of language.

Your anti-police bias is showing itself.

To you, facts disputing whatever your contention is, are the result of bias.

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 05:02 PM

Another glaring example of your inability to process the meaning of language.

Matter of opinion. It was far from being a definite statement.

Your anti-police bias is showing itself.

To you, facts disputing whatever your contention is, are the result of bias.

If you had any it would be helpful.

Athos · Apr 18, 2021, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Matter of opinion. It was far from being a definite statement.

It's not a "matter of opinion". It's right there in black and white. "What it means to me" means "What-it-means-to-me"! Nothing could be more "definite"!

If you had any it would be helpful.

Good Lord. I just gave you facts - one in your own words!

jlisenbe · Apr 18, 2021, 05:24 PM

The statement is clear that several factors contributed to the mans death. The actions of chauvin head the list but he was not the only factor.