[talaniman]

I don't know if you have answered my question about what of the kids who are left behind. I can respect your dislike of unions but my focus is the actual kids and that involves school boards and governance more than the teachers and unions. I don't know if the charter schools deliver on any greater education levels as public schools but do cherry pick the cream of the crop. I suppose there are charter schools for poor kids but if not then school choice sounds like rebranding separate but equal, with kids being a commodity rather than a resource. Not saying I'm against private, parochial, or even charter schools great if you can afford it, but what of those that cannot?

[Athos]

Funny thing about unions - the mere threat makes corporations improve working conditions for its employees. Win-win.

[tomder55]

Tal are kids being left behind in the public school system ? Are you conceding that system is a failure ? if so then why are you so opposed to trying something that has a demonstrated record of success? We have gone over funding options a thousand times with vouchers and grants . The opposition only protects the status quo .

Funny thing about unions - the mere threat makes corporations improve working conditions for its employees. Win-win.

irrelevant to the discussion .We are talking about public unions that get their benefits out of the taxpayer's pockets . Even Roosevelt opposed public unions .

[talaniman]

Tal are kids being left behind in the public school system ? Are you conceding that system is a failure ? if so then why are you so opposed to trying something that has a demonstrated record of success? We have gone over funding options a thousand times with vouchers and grants . The opposition only protects the status quo .

irrelevant to the discussion .We are talking about public unions that get their benefits out of the taxpayer's pockets . Even Roosevelt opposed public unions .

Never fought a teachers union for leaving kids behind. It's always a school board or district that's the real culprit. You know the bean counters that make policy. That makes your union argument a distracting straw argument to hide the real issues. I could care less about how Roosevelt felt about public unions.

Next you'll tell me that school choice doesn't take money out the tax payers pockets. Your links say otherwise.

[Wondergirl]

Not saying I'm against private, parochial, or even charter schools great if you can afford it, but what of those that cannot?

I know from attending a parochial school myself, teaching in one, and sending my kids to one that the congregation will give financial aid to any family that is willing to participate in the life of the church and support the school in various non-financial ways.

[jlisenbe]

Charter schools are typically funded by the state. A voucher system would not be any more expensive, but would allow lower income kids the opportunity to attend good schools that they do not presently have. It would start a revolution in education and give parents the chance to be in charge of their children's education.

Getting rid of a lot of federal and state nonsensical regs would help a great deal as well.

[talaniman]

Wonder where poor states like yours finds the money to give all the poor kids vouchers when guys like you are already beetching about people taking your money. You got enough charter school desks for those kids?

What regs are so ridiculous they should go? Easy enough to make a blanket statement but backing it up with actual numbers requires more.

[tomder55]

You don't understand how they operate . How do public schools gets desks ? .....through taxes ....just like charters . Charter schools are all part of the public system . The only difference is that they are non-profit privately operated .They do not charge tuition .
They have the ability to build the classroom they way they want to designed for the needs of their pupils and unencumbered by silly rules that teacher's unions demand of the public school system.

[jlisenbe]

Exactly correct. They still are encumbered with many silly regs that public schools are subject to, but do have a great deal more autonomy. More than anything, they have the enormous benefit of a student body whose parents have made the decision of sending their kids to that school and are thus pretty well vested.

[talaniman]

Nice try wingers, but I asked for specifics not general platitudes and since neither of you understands the funding mechanism differences between private and public, maybe asking for specific regs you object to is a bit beyond your abilities....my bad! I've actually posted links in both regards but reading ain't the strong suit, and comprehension isn't either. Can't fault you for that or ignorance of the law but some meaningful study may help the dialogue and avoid the usual ideological rock throwing.

Humor me!

[tomder55]

if you don't understand that Charters are public and not private then you are the one with comprehension issues .

You asked " You got enough charter school desks for those kids?" and my reply was correctly that Charters have exactly the same funding as other public schools . Now since I pay taxes to fund the public system . I would prefer parents have choices as to where they send their kids . Many Black parents feel the same way . For one thing ,it is more likely that their children will have a Black teacher . .

The findings show that traditional public schools and charter schools serve the same proportion of black students, but charter schools have about 35 percent more black teachers. Black students in charter schools are more than 50 percent more likely to have at least one black teacher than their counterparts in traditional public schools,

Black Students in Charter Schools Are More Likely to Have Black Teachers (edweek.org)

[jlisenbe]

The idea that black kids need black teachers is nothing more than an old wives tale. It has been disproven for years. Black kids are like all kids. What they really need are caring, competent teachers. Color is not significant.

[talaniman]

I know what charter schools are, Do-charter-schools-get-better-academic-results-than-public-schoolsƒ.pdf (networkforpubliceducation.org)

Five Differences between Charter and Public Schools – Rhodes School For The Performing Arts

How Many Students can be Admitted?

For public schools, this is also dependent on the situation of the school and its district. Public schools are not allowed to turn students away, even if the school is at full capacity. When the school exceeds the set capacity, students are still allowed a place at the school. Open enrollment schools allow parents to apply to them, even if they aren’t in the same district. Open enrollment schools do not offer children admittance, even if it is a school of their choice, once the school is full. Children who don’t get admitted have to choose a neighboring school. Public schools, once they exceed capacity, employ more teachers to meet the growing demand. This will keep happening as more children apply. Charter schools admit based on a threshold. These schools are designed to be a bit more personal, thus the students admitted are limited. However, if the schools exceed a threshold, a lottery system is implemented.

What do you do with the kids who cannot get into that school of choice which was my original question.

[paraclete]

you do what you have always done, send them to the local school

[tomder55]

It is a rising tide raises all boats . The competition from charters on traditional public schools increases performance results in the traditional schools . I really don't understand the opposition . Charters were ideas that Bubba and the emperor were all on board with . It really is in concept a progressive one . Actually I do know the issue . The lib think tank AIE states that 87percent or more of the political contributions made by staff at education-reform organizations over the past decade were given to Democratic candidates. “The leading participants inthe school-reform ‘wars’ are mostly engaged in an intramural brawl, one between union allied Democrats and a strand of progressive Democrats more intent on changing school systems.
Education Reform’s Deep Blue Hue - Education Next

The problem becomes that the teacher's unions have increased their strangle hold on the issue stifling the competition that school reform needs to succeed

[jlisenbe]

I don't have much hope for the system because of the power exercised by unions and liberal power groups. That's why I would like to see the whole thing privatized. Give each student a voucher and let them go where the parent/parents choose.

[talaniman]

I don't have much hope for the system because of the power exercised by unions and liberal power groups. That's why I would like to see the whole thing privatized. Give each student a voucher and let them go where the parent/parents choose.

I say the same thing about non unions and conservative power groups. If all schools were high quality then no need for private/charter schools or vouchers to better ones.

[Wondergirl]

If all schools were high quality then no need for private/charter schools or vouchers to better ones.

And how can we accomplish that?

[talaniman]

Eliminate the poverty that makes the poor schools raggedy.

[Wondergirl]

Eliminate the poverty that makes the poor schools raggedy.

And better teacher training? Safer, better constructed schools?