[Athos]

With Trump's tax situation in the news, the tax system in the US needs to be made more equitable.

The United States does not raise enough tax revenue to fund the basics for our country. Tax policies—federal and state—contribute to inequality that has been shooting higher with almost every passing year. A tiny few are walking away with an ever-larger share of the income and wealth that workers produce. Increasingly, people are left with less of what is needed to thrive, even in normal times, but particularly during a pandemic on a baking planet.

Here are some ideas:

• Tax income from capital gains and stock dividends the same as income from work.
• Tax our corporations’ offshore profits at least as much as we tax their U.S. profits.
• End business tax breaks that are promoted as incentives for investment and job creation when there is no evidence that they accomplish this.
• Explore the creative ideas being generated to make our tax code a better tool for reducing inequality and greening our economy. This might include new or expanded refundable tax credits and a carbon tax.

[paraclete]

Carbon tax, an ugly blunt instrument and it only hurts the lower income

[tomder55]

• Tax income from capital gains and stock dividends the same as income from work.

cap gains is double taxation . but if you eliminate the corporate income tax I could go along with it .

End business tax breaks
A flat tax accomplishes this




Carbon tax, an ugly blunt instrument and it only hurts the lower income
almost all incentive taxes that are designed to socially engineer benefit the rent seekers . All you need to see is all the investment the Goracle put into carbon credits before he became an advocate for them.

[Athos]

End business tax breaks A flat tax accomplishes this

All that a flat tax accomplishes is a huge transfer of wealth from the lower and middle class to the richest in the land. Voodoo economics.

[talaniman]

I don't think we can talk tax policy until we agree there has to be a proportional equity involved so the lower incomes can have a chance to thrive as the upper incomes have gorged themselves. I think closing loopholes for corporations along with regulatory restrictions on overseas profits and individual tax increases for top incomes, while more benefits for workers, both short and long term is a good formula.

[jlisenbe]

For the five hundredth time. The top 20% of income earners in the U.S. pay about 85% of income taxes. The bottom 50% pay about 3%. You cannot lower taxes on lower income people since they pay no income taxes. You cannot raise an extra trillion dollars by raising taxes without burying the economy. Spending will have to be reduced. There is no other way.

[paraclete]

For the five hundredth time. The top 20% of income earners in the U.S. pay about 85% of income taxes. The bottom 50% pay about 3%. You cannot lower taxes on lower income people since they pay no income taxes. You cannot raise an extra trillion dollars by raising taxes without burying the economy. Spending will have to be reduced. There is no other way.

same old capitalist whinge

[jlisenbe]

same old capitalist whinge

Also known as the truth.

Are you a socialist now?

[paraclete]

Also known as the truth.

Are you a socialist now?

I have never been a socialist, but then neither am I a capitalist though I spent many years in the employ of the capitalist system, no, I am just old enough to realise the short comings of both systems. I do however believe in justice which means i don't believe might and money are right. Taxation is theft, no doubt about that so if there is less of it that is a good thing so also is those who have the ability contributing since money doesn't grow on trees unless you convert fruit to drugs. I live in a society where fairness is upheld and there is a real safety net. this is achieved without excessive taxation

[jlisenbe]

The average tax rate in Aussie land is 45% and has been for years. I'm glad to find out that you don't consider that to be excessive since it will have to go up if we do the smart thing and reduce our military footprint around the world, thus forcing nations like yours to have to genuinely fund their own military defense.

There is a real safety net here as well. It is so real that people routinely take advantage of it.

[paraclete]

The average tax rate in Aussie land is 45% and has been for years. I'm glad to find out that you don't consider that to be excessive since it will have to go up if we do the smart thing and reduce our military footprint around the world, thus forcing nations like yours to have to genuinely fund their own military defense.

There is a real safety net here as well. It is so real that people routinely take advantage of it.

you are misinformed I haven't paid tax in years, noone with an income under $18,000 pays tax and superannuation isn't counted, unless you are a high earner the rate is 32.5% so there must be some high flyers pushing up the average and the maximum they pay is 45%. We don't have that state tax B/S either. All my medical is free unless I choose to go to a private hospital

0 – $18,200	Nil
$18,201 – $37,000	19c for each $1 over $18,200
$37,001 – $90,000	$3,572 plus 32.5c for each $1 over $37,000
$90,001 – $180,000	$20,797 plus 37c for each $1 over $90,000
$180,001 and over	$54,097 plus 45c for each $1 over $180,000

contrast this with your own tax statistics
You are really into this military funding B/S but we don't need to buy anymore yankee weapons and put money in your pocket so take that Trump lie and put it where the sun don't shine. I don't mind if you are less confrontational

[jlisenbe]

I haven't paid tax in years,

Well no wonder you like your tax structure. How noble of you to brag about how much others are forced to pay in taxes while you do nothing at all. Now maybe I am not remembering this accurately, but I think you have said months ago that you are the head of several companies. And for that you get paid 18K annually?

Your top bracket is indeed 45%.

Military funding BS?? You keep missing the point. I am all for letting perfectly able countries like yours do their own defending. I don't care where you buy your weapons from, but I do care that we not go bankrupt trying to defend nations like yours who, if you are a representative sample, seem to have no appreciation at all for what is done for them.

[talaniman]

We haven't defended anybody in a long time, but the cooperation levels I think were higher before the dufus started his loud badmouth campaign about money. It was in our interest to have a force that could go everywhere in the world if needed, maybe not so much now but you never know, but regardless as much as we puff ourselves up and look down on the rest of the world we are finding out the hard way our stuff needs more work in so many areas, I don't think we should be running our mouths over what we got that others don't have.

Arrogance ain't good.

[jlisenbe]

but the cooperation levels I think were higher before the dufus started his loud badmouth campaign about money.

In your world, everything is Trump's fault.

We haven't defended anybody in a long time.

I think our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq would be surprised to find that out. We have troops in 177 countries around the world. I would think that is far, far too many.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s...ments-country/

[talaniman]

In your world, everything is Trump's fault.

No not everything just the boorish stupid unnecessary antics.

I think our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq would be surprised to find that out. We have troops in 177 countries around the world. I would think that is far, far too many.

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s...ments-country/

Somebody here deemed it strategically necessary so here we are. Wars conflicts and skirmishes is what we do to HELP whether people can afford it or not. We could just let terrorists and anarchist run roughshod through defenseless populations and save money I suppose.

[paraclete]

In your world, everything is Trump's fault.

I think our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq would be surprised to find that out. We have troops in 177 countries around the world. I would think that is far, far too many.

Yes far too many aside from embassy defence none of them should be there and that includes Afghanistan and include our own troops in the remark

[jlisenbe]

Wars conflicts and skirmishes is what we do to HELP whether people can afford it or not.

The point is that WE cannot afford it.

We could just let terrorists and anarchist run roughshod through defenseless populations and save money I suppose

Or we could begin to expect these other nations to spend a comparable amount of their GDP on defense and then they could defend themselves. That's why I don't so much mind helping countries like Israel and S. Korea. We are at 3.4%, Israel at 5.3%, S. Korea at 2.7%, and then there's Australia at 1.9%.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_expenditures

[paraclete]

Well no wonder you like your tax structure. How noble of you to brag about how much others are forced to pay in taxes while you do nothing at all. Now maybe I am not remembering this accurately, but I think you have said months ago that you are the head of several companies. And for that you get paid 18K annually?

once again you are misinformed, many years ago I did rise to be CEO of an energy utility and in my career held various executive positions in various corporations and now I am old, a fossil to some, and my income is no longer what it once was

Your top bracket is indeed 45%.

ducking again you said it was the average rate, the average rate is nothing like 45%. Perhaps you don't know the meaning of the term average

Military funding BS?? You keep missing the point. I am all for letting perfectly able countries like yours do their own defending. I don't care where you buy your weapons from, but I do care that we not go bankrupt trying to defend nations like yours who, if you are a representative sample, seem to have no appreciation at all for what is done for them.

You keep missing the point, you think we should be beholding to you because you "generously" project your power for your own purposes. Long ago you fought a war and we fought beside you, but we no longer want to fight endless wars. You want to dictate how much we should spend on defence, but we don't need a standing army of a million

[jlisenbe]

So you are a retired CEO and you make less than 18K annually? Thank goodness for that generous Aussie safety net!! I would ask what happened, but it's really none of my business.

ducking again you said it was the average rate, the average rate is nothing like 45%. Perhaps you don't know the meaning of the term average

Your point is well taken. I misstated the facts. However, it is still true that your tax rate is above ours.

You keep missing the point, you think we should be beholding to you because you "generously" project your power for your own purposes. Long ago you fought a war and we fought beside you, but we no longer want to fight endless wars. You want to dictate how much we should spend on defence, but we don't need a standing army of a million.

No. Actually I want to just cut you guys loose and let you take care of yourselves. Either that, or you can surrender to China and become China South. That will be up to you. Don't want to fight? Fine with me. I don't want to dictate anything to you. I just want to cut your little country loose until the time comes when people like you become just a tiny bit thankful and get some small amount of understanding of what we do in this world. We sure don't need to bankrupt ourselves spending money to defend people who don't want to pay the price of defending themselves.

So you want to make your own decisions? Fine with me. Just do it on your own dime.

[paraclete]

So you are a retired CEO and you make less than 18K annually? Thank goodness for that generous Aussie safety net!! I would ask what happened, but it's really none of my business.

You don't listen or perhaps you don't understand. I said that superannuation income wasn't taxed

Your point is well taken. I misstated the facts. However, it is still true that your tax rate is above ours.

yes and some of your individual tax provisions are more generous but you pay for it in other ways, It seems our tax rate is about to be reduced further in response to CV19 economic woos

No. Actually I want to just cut you guys loose and let you take care of yourselves. Either that, or you can surrender to China and become China South. That will be up to you. Don't want to fight? Fine with me. I don't want to dictate anything to you. I just want to cut your little country loose until the time comes when people like you become just a tiny bit thankful and get some small amount of understanding of what we do in this world. We sure don't need to bankrupt ourselves spending money to defend people who don't want to pay the price of defending themselves.

you have never needed to bankrupt yourselves defending us, more likely the opposite, but you are not thankful for the support you receive from those who truly can't afford it. You think our 1.9% is too small but maybe we get more bang for our buck, no $12,000 hammers and such like. Perhaps if we compared on a per capita basis You spend $2,000 per capita we spend $1,000, you have a military of 2 million and many aircraft carriers we don't. If we had many aircraft carriers we would have to spend more

So you want to make your own decisions? Fine with me. Just do it on your own dime.

so generous of you after you insist we spend more on the military