[jlisenbe]

“Go in by the narrow gate. For the wide gate has a broad road which leads to disaster and there are many people going that way. The narrow gate and the hard road lead out into life and only a few are finding it.” When you prefer to listen to your own ideas and ignore the words of Christ, then it's hard to help you.

I think his point was not so much about numbers (though that is there) as it is about access. There is only one way to God and that way is Jesus, but there are many wrong paths, and thus the road that leads to destruction is "broad". So much for wiggle room. I think you cherish that "wiggle room" because you think it allows you to introduce your own ideas into the Gospel. That will never be allowed. God put it this way. "My thoughts are not your thoughts." He is not referred to as "Lord" for no reason.

[Wondergirl]

Read the story in John 4.

Jesus says we are to love one another. He doesn't specify who to love and who not to love..

[jlisenbe]

I don't think you read it yourself. If you had, you would have seen this.

"39 Many Samaritans from the village believed in Jesus because the woman had said, “He told me everything I ever did!” 40 When they came out to see him, they begged him to stay in their village. So he stayed for two days, 41 long enough for many more to hear his message and believe.

There's never been a question about us loving each other. The question concerns your false assertion that love is all God requires of us. It is flatly untrue.

[Wondergirl]

I never said that's all God requires of us.

[jlisenbe]

I never said that's all God requires of us

Really? "All God wants from us is to love one another."

You're trying to find some more of that "wiggle room".

[Wondergirl]

I don't see any love, JL.

I Cor. 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

[dwashbur]

Another question for DW. Which Bible translations do you prefer?

And in case you missed this one, "DW, in your view, what constitutes the "heart" in NT teaching? When Proverbs tells us to "guard your heart", what does "heart" mean there? I'm in the process of reading Witness Nee's description of the heart, but he can get so wordy and technical that I get lost in the weeds."

I'm preaching on the heart Sunday and am not super clear on how to describe it.

I'm partial to the NIV, though for the unchurched/untaught, I find The Message useful.
In both Testaments, the "heart" is the seat of the emotions and decision-making. "Guard your heart" because the wrong influences on the center of your being can send your decisions in a lot of bad directions.
We have several terms for it today, such as "trust your gut". Solomon would have said "Trust your heart" if he eve intended to say such an absurd thing. He said "guard" rather than "trust" because he knew the truth that Jeremiah wrote down a few centuries later: the heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Since the heart is the entity that guides decision making, that means it's naturally prone to evil. That's why we need Jesus: not only to save us from a Godless eternity, but to save us from ourselves right now.
My reading in the Greek New Testament this morning was the stoning of Stephen. I had to ask, why is humanity's first answer to any conflict to try and kill someone? Why is that the first thing we think of? Think about it. Somebody pulls a prank, what do we say as we're laughing? "I'm gonna kill you!" Even in jest it's our first thought.
If that's not enough evidence that humans are hopelessly corrupt and in need of a savior to reconcile us to God, I don't know what will.
I hope I answered your question.

I don't see any love, JL.

I Cor. 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

First, I don't see any of what you suggest in JL's posts. Second, bringing in this passage is a red herring. Who's he addressing? Hint: not pagans or other non-believers. Check the wider context. The question is what God requires. You said in so many words that all God wants from us is to love each other. Then you said that's not what you said. Color me confused. And JL is right, John 4 does not support your argument. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Sorry if I'm getting snippy, but this sort of thing bugs me.

[jlisenbe]

WG, maybe you'll see this the second time I post it. "There's never been a question about us loving each other. The question concerns your false assertion that love is all God requires of us. It is flatly untrue."

DW, thanks for the answers. I was sitting at the rehab this morning listenting to someone else and I started thinking about the various strengths and weaknesses of the different approaches to translation. Accurate translations such as ESV and NASB suffer from readability issues. Readable ones such as the NLT suffer from accuracy issues. It hit me that the solution might be to read both. Read a passage in, for instance, the NASB, and then turn around and read the same one in The Message or the NLT.

My wife and I send Bibles to Africa. We purchase used, leather bound study Bibles off of Ebay for not very much and ship them out. Just sent 450. We generally use the NIV with either the Life App notes or the Zondervan study notes, so I'm glad to see your endorsement of the NIV.

Your words concerning the heart are much appreciated. It certainly does seem plain to see that mankind has a fallen, rebellious, mean streak that only Jesus can work with.

[Wondergirl]

WG, maybe you'll see this the second time I post it. "There's never been a question about us loving each other. The question concerns your false assertion that love is all God requires of us. It is flatly untrue."

When did I use the word ALL?

My other favorite passage besides I Corinthians 13 is this one. We used it at our son's funeral five years ago:

Micah 6:8 NIV: He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

[jlisenbe]

This is getting old. ""All God wants from us is to love one another."

You need to address DW's comments. They are very good.

[Wondergirl]

This is getting old. ""All God wants from us is to love one another."

I added more to my previous reply. This --

My other favorite passage besides I Corinthians 13 is this one. We used it at our son's funeral five years ago:

Micah 6:8 NIV: He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

[jlisenbe]

You are running from your "all".

Please address DW's response.

[Wondergirl]

Please address DW's response.

As he said, love is the answer:

"Since the heart is the entity that guides decision making, that means it's naturally prone to evil. That's why we need Jesus: not only to save us from a Godless eternity, but to save us from ourselves right now."

And yes, John 4 does support my argument. Jesus sat with the Samaritan woman because of love.

1 John 4:16
New International Version
16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

[jlisenbe]

Conveniently overlooked. "...not only to save us from a Godless eternity, but to save us from ourselves right now."

Intentionally, repeatedly ignored. "There's never been a question about us loving each other. The question concerns your false assertion that love is all God requires of us. It is flatly untrue."

I added more to my previous reply. This --

And there is still that pesky "all".

[Wondergirl]

If you don't have love, you don't have God in your heart.

[jlisenbe]

I would certainly agree with that.

[dwashbur]

Wondergirl
Quote Originally Posted by jlisenbe View Post
Please address DW's response.
As he said, love is the answer:

That is SO not what I said.

"Since the heart is the entity that guides decision making, that means it's naturally prone to evil. That's why we need Jesus: not only to save us from a Godless eternity, but to save us from ourselves right now."

That is NOT "love is the answer". That is "Jesus is the answer". And kindly address the "Godless eternity" and all the rest instead of copping out.

And yes, John 4 does support my argument. Jesus sat with the Samaritan woman because of love.

1 John 4:16
New International Version
16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

JOHN 4, not 1 John 4. Jesus sat with the Samaritan woman because he was thirsty. Please stop eisegeting.

[Wondergirl]

That is SO not what I said.

You should have.

That is NOT "love is the answer". That is "Jesus is the answer".

Yes, Jesus is the love that inspires us to give that love to each other.

And kindly address the "Godless eternity" and all the rest instead of copping out.

Those were DW's words. I simply agreed.

Jesus sat with the Samaritan woman because he was thirsty. Please stop eisegeting.

And let's talk about that woman. He had no clue about her past and present life? He just plopped down, hoping for a sip of water? Gimme a break!

John 4 = woman at the well. Then I posted:

1 John 4:16
New International Version
16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them.

[jlisenbe]

You should have.

Oh brother.

He had no clue about her past and present life? He just plopped down, hoping for a sip of water? Gimme a break!

When asked to stop eisegeting, you promptly begin to eisegete.

[waltero]

After I first read the Bible, I read "He who believes Jesus is the son of God."
Before I read the Bible I might have professed Evolution. After I read, I simply believed in God as it said, and that was it. That was all I was required to do...And I believed it.
I use to express that to others and I'd always get a - well not exactly -well there is more to it than that - wrong - That's not what it says -that's not what it means etc. Didn't matter how they explained it, I could hear them but It held no weight on my heart.
Walked around for the next 30 yrs before I craved a real love for Jesus.

Just leave WG alone. Please use prayer. Prayer is the only answer. you can not talk somebody into believing as you do, it's not set up that way. Only the holy spirit can intervene.

Your false assertion that love is all God requires of us.

Maybe that is all God requires of her at this particular point in time.
Maybe you were brought in here for a time such as this, to open your eyes and see the problems you might be creating for yourself.

but to suggest that our understanding of God and the truth of the Bible is to be on the level of what a child can understand is completely unbiblical

Really? Get out of your mind and focus on whats in your heart. Come, all you newborn children of God. Come, listen, drink, grow... And Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever, therefore, shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.


Every single human being, except one, has been under the sentence of death and has been a child of wrath (Genesis 2–3).

Maybe It is time to become a Child of God?