[Athos]

To be sure, slavery was a terrible part of our history, but it's been gone for 150 years.

And what replaced it? Years of glory and joy? No, 150 years of lynchings, Jim Crow, segregation, discrimination, and systemic, institutional racism. For a supposed teacher, you exhibit an enormous historical ignorance.

[jlisenbe]

Never said it was all peaches and cream. It was hard for a lot of people, but that has been largely corrected, so it's time for each person to get busy and make something of his/her life.

[talaniman]

Never said it was all peaches and cream. It was hard for a lot of people, but that has been largely corrected, so it's time for each person to get busy and make something of his/her life.

Largely corrected says the 60 year old white guy. A long way to go says the 60 year old black guy. Recent events shows the 60 year old black guy may be right. The diverse protests across the land say so too. When the words of the founding documents ring true for everyone then we have finally lived up to those aspirations and everybody can get busy building a life that they can be proud of.

In the meantime pay your bill so we can get beyond all that history of cruelty and atrocities. You can't sweep it under a rug like it didn't happen. Nor even claim it's the past when it's still happening.

[jlisenbe]

A long way to go says the 60 year old black guy.

Be specific. What do you want to see change?

I wish I was 60.

[Athos]

Never said it was all peaches and cream. It was hard for a lot of people, but that has been largely corrected, so it's time for each person to get busy and make something of his/her life.

Unbelievable description of the 400-year black experience in America.

After 17 years working in the black ghetto, you have apparently learned nothing from those 17 years. I find it hard to credit you with those years when you can post something so outrageous as you have done above.

"never peaches and cream" - "hard for a lot of people" - "largely corrected" - "time to get busy" ...............

The mind boggles!

[jlisenbe]

I'll let you go work in inner city schools for even five days and then come back and we can talk about, that is once you have received a little education. Get off your couch and go do something productive.

[talaniman]

Be specific. What do you want to see change?

I wish I was 60.

Before I answer, what have you heard, NOT observed in your 17 years in the inner city from those black people. What changes do THEY want?

I'll let you go work in inner city schools for even five days and then come back and we can talk about, that is once you have received a little education. Get off your couch and go do something productive.

Athos has proved quite well that you don't have to "get off the couch" to LISTEN to people.

PS-I know we are closer to 70 than 60! LOL, I deleted the "something" after 60 to make me feel better this morning. 8D

[jlisenbe]

Before I answer, what have you heard, NOT observed in your 17 years in the inner city from those black people. What changes do THEY want?

I would say they wanted to be treated fairly and with respect, to have greater opportunity, to be able to be safe on their own streets and homes.

Athos has proven he listens to Athos. Experience counts a lot more to me than talk.

Yeah, 60 does sound better than 60 something. Good point!

Probably the biggest lesson I have learned in life is that given the choice between changing me and changing others, my best bet by far is to change me. As far as my own life goes, I does waste much time in trying to get others to adjust to me.

[Athos]

Athos has proven he listens to Athos.

As usual you have nothing to say when you get caught in a demonstrably idiotic post - except diversionary insults.

It's time for you to get your head out of the dufus' arse. You got it so far up there, it might be permanant.

[paraclete]

As far as my own life goes, I does waste much time in trying to get others to adjust to me.

all of your time here is devoted to exactly that, stop fooling yourself

[jlisenbe]

You must learn to read much more carefully, Clete. You're being careless. The key phrase was, "As far as my own life goes." What you guys think means very little to me on a personal level. It effects my life none at all. These discussions have to do with national matters, or just issues of truth. It's more on the level of exchanging ideas.

Athos, if you want to be listened to, then get off your couch and actually go do something useful and productive in the inner city of wherever you live. Until then, it's just a load of weak opinion. And stop your shameless copying. Now you're copying Tal! Have an original thought.

[talaniman]

I would say they wanted to be treated fairly and with respect, to have greater opportunity, to be able to be safe on their own streets and homes.

BINGO! Wondering if you can listen! I feel better about you. We share a skill in being able to piss people off don't we? 8)

Probably the biggest lesson I have learned in life is that given the choice between changing me and changing others, my best bet by far is to change me. As far as my own life goes, I does waste much time in trying to get others to adjust to me.

I learned this lesson the hard way for sure, but giving people time to adjust to you is a virtue in my view and gave me time to understand myself and learn to understand others.

Right now at this point in my life it irks me most and what I would change is stop people from peeing on my head and believing I deserve it! I accomplish that by standing tall enough to look them in the eye and say "I ain't going for it". If they back off fine! If not then I DEAL with it.

You already know I don't like liars and bullies, and will NEVER back down from that challenge. Hope that answers your question, because if you leave people be, they will handle their own business without others exploiting, suppressing or oppressing them for their own gain. Especially not from our own institutions we depend on, so we can live up to the goals as written in our founding documents, and build that more perfect union.

[Athos]

Athos has proved quite well that you don't have to "get off the couch" to LISTEN to people.

I'm heartened by the genuine dialogue that appears to be taking place for the first time in America. As shown on the cable TV channels, both black and white are protesting together and honest communication is starting. It's apparent whites need to understand the black experience in more realistic ways than in the past.

It is to be hoped that much good will come out of the three horrific examples of anti-black police brutality reported in May (including the ex-policeman and his son) that is continuing to shock the world.

Ex-NFL player Emmanuel Acho has started a dialogue on video which was on CNN this morning and promises to be of great value. One of many, I hope.

https://barrettsportsmedia.com/2020/...h-a-black-man/

[talaniman]

We could have started that dialogue years ago especially after Colin Kaepernick took a knee to highlight the subject. Guess we weren't ready.

Had to use a different link Athos because of virus issues.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/ex-nfl...h-a-black-man/

Very articulate you brother.

[Athos]

We could have started that dialogue years ago especially after Colin Kaepernick took a knee to highlight the subject. Guess we weren't ready.

Not everybody went along with the symbolism of the national anthem.

The "knee on the neck" video touches anybody who is a human being.

[jlisenbe]

We could have started that dialogue years ago especially after Colin Kaepernick took a knee to highlight the subject. Guess we weren't ready.

Why not start it here? I'd still like to know, specifically, what changes you want to see take place, Tal.

It is to be hoped that much good will come out of the three horrific examples of anti-black police brutality reported in May (including the ex-policeman and his son) that is continuing to shock the world.

So it was actually two. But at any rate, we can also hope to see some dialogue about the 400 or so black people murdered in May by other black people. We can hope they do not die in vain. Perhaps we can include the many businesses burned to the ground by rioters whose innocent owners, a large number of whom were black, are now bankrupt, or we can discuss the shooting and abuse of policemen just doing their jobs, or the damage inflicted upon an already fragile economy. Perhaps those issues deserve discussion??

[Athos]

So it was actually two.

Three.

But at any rate, we can also hope to see some dialogue about the 400 or so black people murdered in May by other black people. We can hope they do not die in vain. Perhaps we can include the many businesses burned to the ground by rioters whose innocent owners, a large number of whom were black, are now bankrupt, or we can discuss the shooting and abuse of policemen just doing their jobs, or the damage inflicted upon an already fragile economy. Perhaps those issues deserve discussion??

You actually enjoy having your head up the dufus' arse, don't you?

[jlisenbe]

Thank you for that well reasoned, civil contribution. Now, anyone with anything intelligent to say?

[talaniman]

Why not start it here? I'd still like to know, specifically, what changes you want to see take place, Tal.

We talked about taking the knee when it happened, but these latest events are but extensions of issues that went unaddressed for an awful long time so I think we start with accountability from law enforcement, so it's no longer swept under a rug, and end that abuse of destroying dignity and respect for those that should be served and protected. Laws and policies and practices that needed reform should be done. I've expressed extensively on these pages of other economic abuses heaped on my peeps through the institutional racism, and deeper, a class segregation that affects white folks as it does black folks, chief among them that trickle down economic model that puts a persons self worth and value into the hands of rich guys who hoard money. That in itself stops cold the necessary circulation of money required to eliminate poverty and strengthen a middle class that is tenuous at best. The real job creators through demand.

So it was actually two. But at any rate, we can also hope to see some dialogue about the 400 or so black people murdered in May by other black people. We can hope they do not die in vain.

You deal with black on black crime most effectively by dealing with poverty, and lack of opportunity pervasive in segregated societies (neighborhoods). If property taxes fund schools then do you think more black people owning a home is the key to have better schools? In this way a homeowner not a renter can better demand good schools for their kids and have the money to maintain a neighborhood against the gangs that grow from poverty running buck wild in the streets.

That's more empowering than an out of town cop coming in kicking butts because he can't tell the criminal from the citizen and is scared less for his life, just like the citizens. In addition why just have strange white cops cracking heads on strange black heads? Yeah that breeds a lot of trust and commitment doesn't it?

When I see a white cop cracking heads and killing black people, I always remember that could be me or mine instead of a stranger. What do you feel? The dirt bag had it coming? Hope not. That's the problem with racists. They don't see a human, but a criminal to abuse for a crime, so they stop, frisk, detain at will! Then there's the justice system where the average black guy can't even afford bail, so languishes in jail which does nobody any good.

Be careful dude don't get me started about the people in jail for jaywalking or some other nonsense charge, like a roach in his pocket.

Perhaps we can include the many businesses burned to the ground by rioters whose innocent owners, a large number of whom were black, are now bankrupt, or we can discuss the shooting and abuse of policemen just doing their jobs, or the damage inflicted upon an already fragile economy. Perhaps those issues deserve discussion??

Some of the looters are angry for whatever reason, some are criminals which. lets be clear have nothing to do with the peaceful protestors, and if you're even suggesting it's the peaceful protesters fault that people riot and loot, then maybe stopping the reason for the protesting would stop looting and rioting better than cops!

Whose fault is it really that nobody listened and did NOTHING about it?

[jlisenbe]

That was a lot. You mentioned school funding, but numerous examples show that school funding is generally not the problem. The D.C. schools are extremely well funded, but perform very poorly. In our area, the city schools are much better funded, and very low performing.

I don't think anyone is in jail for jaywalking. Relatively few people are jailed for drug use. It would be good to see the issue of bail discussed. I would think it depends on what the charge is and the person's past criminal history, if any.

I don't think there is ever, ever any excuse for someone to destroy property belonging to someone else. It should always be treated as low-class, criminal behavior and never, never justified.

What specific laws would you like to see changed?